Life At Ten - An Absolute Sham

[firstoffclaim]

Life at Ten being allowed to run

[PaceAdvantage]

More controversy than you can shake a stick at on Day 1.

[fronti]

Is is Johnny V's or the vets fault? Terrible.

[firstoffclaim]

yea, weirdest Cup Day ever in alot of ways

[Valuist]

I felt like we were time traveling back to 1987 when Lady's Secret started behaving very strangely.

[Tom]

THAT was sickening!

No excuse for that SHIT. Between Johnny V and the track vet, do they share a brain and gave it the night off?

Luckily they talked about it on TV - everyone else at the track got screwed royally.

Vets never consulted with all that? Guess Johnny V is now the totally JERK jock of the day. Pletcher would be justified in punching his lights out right on the track.

[firstoffclaim]

The announcers were basically begging someone to do something, Pletcher and the vets have to answer for this, and Johnny V to a lesser extent

[eastie]

johnny v seemed to think it was funny after the race....lost a lot of respect for him

[PaceAdvantage]

Is is Johnny V's or the vets fault? Terrible.No way does a jock want to scratch at the gate in this type of race. The fact he said ANYTHING publicly let you know that Johnny V. thought something was DEFINITELY WRONG...probably more than he let on...

TV said stewards were ordering the Vet to take a second look.

You bet your money and you take your chances...only this time, we got a rare insight into what probably happens often at tracks everywhere.

[depalma113]

We need a class action lawsuit against Churchill Downs, the track vets and Todd Pletcher.

[gm10]

on ATR they are saying that she probably didn't like the synthetic lights
what is the view from the US?

[PaceAdvantage]

We need a class action lawsuit against Churchill Downs, the track vets and Todd Pletcher.No reason to get crazy.

[Stillriledup]

He basically stiffed her out of the gate. Lame or not lame, once that gate opens you have to ride hard all the way. If you plan on protecting the horse all the way, don't run.

[firstoffclaim]

I give Johnny V alot of credit, he basically pulled her up, the horse is the most important thing, he didn't look like he was laughing at all

[GatetoWire]

I loved her going into to this based on how she was working at CD.

Thank god for the Xpressbet cancel your wager button!!!! That saved me a bundle.

It was almost like someone drugged her.....I have been going to the track for 30 years and I don't recall ever seeing something like that.

[cpitt84]

any reason why HRtv did not show the classic? unbelievable!

[tzipi]

Should've scratched the horse. They knew she was not up to par BEFORE she got to the gate.

[Marshall Bennett]

Had she won would everyone be saying the same thing ? Damned if ya do damned if ya don't . Big race , big money , Breeder's Cup , I don't blame anyone and the horse seems ok . Believe any other jockey would have acted the same .

[railjunkie]

CRIMINAL!!!!

[tzipi]

Had she won would everyone be saying the same thing ? Damned if ya do damned if ya don't . Big race , big money , Breeder's Cup , I don't blame anyone and the horse seems ok . Believe any other jockey would have acted the same .

She didn't win. Not even close. She didn't even run from the start of the race. She backed up right from the start. Many people said before the race she didn't look right, including the jock. Plus there was a vet there. Wasn't all on Johnny V. Clearly didn't seem right.

[Tom]

Had she won would everyone be saying the same thing ? Damned if ya do damned if ya don't . Big race , big money , Breeder's Cup , I don't blame anyone and the horse seems ok . Believe any other jockey would have acted the same .

Yeah, everyone is just ducky, except the CUSTOMERS.
No wonder most people ignore racing.

[GatetoWire]

Yeah, everyone is just ducky, except the CUSTOMERS.
No wonder most people ignore racing.

Anyone watching the coverage had to cancel their wagers.

She was my best bet of the day and I backed right out as soon as I saw how concerned JRV was.

[Robert Goren]

This is not racing putting it best foot forward. Pace is right it does happen a lot. It is one the reasons racing is in trouble, but certainly not the only one.

[Rackon]

No one said squat on the live BC internet feed but it was obvious something was wrong as soon as she left the gate. The comment was that LaT did not cross the wire and was more or less pulled up.

So please give the scoop for those of us watching on a puter at work with no access to HRTV or ESPN! Jock's comments??? What?

[GatetoWire]

No one said squat on the live BC internet feed but it was obvious something was wrong as soon as she left the gate. The comment was that LaT did not cross the wire and was more or less pulled up.

So please give the scoop for those of us watching on a puter at work with no access to HRTV or ESPN! Jock's comments??? What?

Jerry Bailey on ESPN was talking to JRV and he was concerned before the race that she was acting very funny.
She warmed up very poor and based on the comments should have been scratched.

They interviewed Pletcher after and he said that she was acting funny in the paddock and that he thinks she had a reaction to her Lasix.

I was thinking that she was tying up??? Could be a 100 things....mares are notorious for things going wrong without warning.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

So please give the scoop for those of us watching on a puter at work with no access to HRTV or ESPN! Jock's comments??? What?

JV basically said to the national TV audience talking to Jerry Bailey in the warm-up that his horse was lame/off/no good......after a few minutes they went back to him heading to the gate and Jerry asked him if she was any better and he basically said no, she's a pitchfork.

[Rackon]

JV basically said to the national TV audience talking to Jerry Bailey in the warm-up that his horse was lame/off/no good......after a few minutes they went back to him heading to the gate and Jerry asked him if she was any better and he basically said no, she's a pitchfork.

Yikes.

[tzipi]

You bet your money and you take your chances...only this time, we got a rare insight into what probably happens often at tracks everywhere.

Very true Pace.

[senortout]

Don't forget this; both of Pletchers trainees ran clunkers in this race. I wagered on the other and was dismayed to see a total lack of purpose displayed. When she broke sharply, she was never given a chance to fashion a front-running effort, which basically ruined her chances, and she soon lost interest altogether.

go figure.

[Charlie D]

Interesting stuff guys.


Just out of interest. Did Todd make comment on his other runner. The one that got lead and then looked like it was hit head on by a 18 wheeler??

[nijinski]

JV basically said to the national TV audience talking to Jerry Bailey in the warm-up that his horse was lame/off/no good......after a few minutes they went back to him heading to the gate and Jerry asked him if she was any better and he basically said no, she's a pitchfork.

JV should have refused to ride if that's the case.
But of course folks will say , can't do that it's too big a race.
or he'd lose his big future mounts. But the whole thing is just ugly.

[Nikki1997]

On the ESPN telecast, Pletcher was speaking off-camera as the horses approached the gate .

There was prior concern that LAT was observed to not be moving well, confirmed by JV live.

After the warmup up , he was asked if she had improved, and he said " not really " .

At this point the announcers indicated a vet check was imminent, but frankly I didn't see any vet observing her jog before she was loaded .

Pletcher spoke live as the field approached the gate, and did not seem confident that she was herself at all .

But they loaded her .

Velazquez was upfront in what he said, but it was up to the track vet and Pletcher to run or scratch .

And they loaded her .

She made it around the track safely after breaking slowly and was allowed to lose contact with the field .

What was the point .

She looked like crap in front, and running her could have caused grief to horses and men .

She also took a lot of people's money that assumed their choice was assessed fit to run by a prominent trainer and on site vets, and they got screwed .

Irresponsibilty nationally televised that could have been an even worse disaster .

MIKKI

[JustRalph]

I don't think Pletcher would take Johnny V off his mounts if they broke backwards from the gate and ran the wrong way.

I can't believe he didn't refuse to ride.

[GARY Z]

in light of Eight Belles and Barabaro, and the growing apathy of the
puiblic to racing how could Life at Ten be allowed to race?

Thank God this horse survived the race..

Importantly, Johnny V was discussing with ESPN that LAT wasn't feeling right,
yet the horse was allowed to go to the gate.

Incredibly, why didn't this jock call an audible???


This track is the "heartland" of racing????

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Stillriledup]

I give Johnny V alot of credit, he basically pulled her up, the horse is the most important thing, he didn't look like he was laughing at all


You give him credit for stiffing a horse?

[HUSKER55]

THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO KEPT QUIET

[netbet]

Agree 100%..guess JV figured Pletcher would never ride him again if he refused to ride.



He basically stiffed her out of the gate. Lame or not lame, once that gate opens you have to ride hard all the way. If you plan on protecting the horse all the way, don't run.

[nijinski]

I'm hearing she tyed up.
She had to be uncomfortable , the Vet may have some explaining to do.

[point given]

in light of Eight Belles and Barabaro, and the growing apathy of the
puiblic to racing how could Life at Ten be allowed to race?

Thank God this horse survived the race..

Importantly, Johnny V was discussing with ESPN that LAT wasn't feeling right,
yet the horse was allowed to go to the gate.

Incredibly, why didn't this jock call an audible???


This track is the "heartland" of racing????

:mad: :mad: :mad:


JV protected the horse but didnot protect the betting public. He should have requested the scratch as Gomez did the other day. The vet should also ask the jock if he wants it. JV just galloped LAT like a work breezing, if he was gong to do that he should have requested the scratch

[trackrat59]

I could see when she went into the gate that something was going on with her stomach. You could see an unatural line running left - right along her side. I'm not a vet but it did not look normal. Belly cramps of some sort. Hope she's ok.

[Tom]

If I were Pletcher, I would replace him with Desormeaux - at least he waits until the stretch to stiff them.

[Tom]

This is not racing putting it best foot forward. ....

Does racing have a good foot?
If I ran a slots place, I would use this in a commercial - "Come try the slots - at least you have a chance! Not like uuugggg, racing!"

[lamboguy]

i could make a post here but everyone beat me to the punch. the racing game is wearing me out already. the 2 factions that are the most important in this game are the owner and of course the BETTORS. now you can see why we are losing both of them, and more to follow.

[DJofSD]

Yes, ya pay your money and ya take your chances. But I'm still p*ssed.

LaT was one of two horses I bet in that race. At the OTB, they had the track feed, no ESPN, and even if the did have ESPN on some of the monitors, the audio would not have been on while other races from other tracks were be run.

I think the stewards should have declared LaT as a non-starter and refunded all wagers that used the horse.

[lamboguy]

Yes, ya pay your money and ya take your chances. But I'm still p*ssed.

LaT was one of two horses I bet in that race. At the OTB, they had the track feed, no ESPN, and even if the did have ESPN on some of the monitors, the audio would not have been on while other races from other tracks were be run.

I think the stewards should have declared LaT as a non-starter and refunded all wagers that used the horse.correct

[Tom]

I think the stewards should have declared LaT as a non-starter and refunded all wagers that used the horse.

Unfortunately, they can't do that, but what they should do is fine and suspend the jock for failure to persevere. He had ample opportunity to not enter the gate. Once he did, he had an obligation to the bettors to try. He ignored two obligations today - one to the horse, who could have been hurt by racing, and one to the public, who definitely got screwed.

I have no respect for the pinhead whatsoever.

[Zippy Chippy]

WHy the hell were his odds so low if everyone knew about this? the last i saw he was 7/2 when they were going into the gate.

[Skanoochies]

There was also a comment from one of the T.V. people,that Sadler wasn`t pleased having Borel on Tell a Kelly in the 8th after being in the altercation. It sounded like he would liked to have made a jockey change but couldn`t.

Anyone else hear that little blurb? :confused:

[johnhannibalsmith]

When faced with a lose-lose situation, minimizing the loss is usually the way to go. On Breeder's Cup weekend, for this reason or that reason, it's mindboggling that everybody in a position to avoid this reality decided that it was someone else's responsibility.

It's so uncommonly rare to see a horse in this situation pick up the bit on his/her own and reassure the rider enough that it was a good thing that they didn't scratch -- it's just hard for me to imagine that with all of the world-class elites, the leaders of our industry, that this common bush track scenario was handled with all of the diginity that it generally receives at those bush tracks.

I do feel for John Velasquez on some level, but this guy is a grizzled professional. He went on ESPN2 live in the post parade and made his feeling very clear.

You aren't an actor Johnny, you're a race rider. If you can speak that candidly on the subject while on camera, I can't begin to fathom why you can't dismount behind the gate and give an equally compelling dissertation to the people without a television monitor - namely the ones that need to know and should have done the job in spite of you.

The next time someone talks about some shitty little track with brazen snobbery compared to their "high class" racing, I'll think of Breeder's Cup at Churchill in 2010 when the elite in racing, not the horses, but the humans, put on quite a regal demonstration.

[BIG49010]

Pletcher said on TV after the race she wasn't right when he saddled her, so why the hell did he run her? Other countries they would look into the out come, but in the good ol state of Kentucky, standard proceedure!

[WinterTriangle]

Why would ANYONE blame the jockey?

Jockeys don't scratch horses. If they do, I've never seen it in the charts.

(It sure didn't work for the jockeys at Penn when they didn't want to ride Gill's horses. :rolleyes: remember? They had to give up pay and go on strike by themselves with zero support. Jocks have no power unless their trainers respect and trust their opinion.)

Pletcher is derelict here. Horse under his charge, and for which he gets paid to train, was not okay, and he let the jock get on the horse, as well as put the horse and other riders at risk. He knows, or hopefully knows, his horses better than the vet at CD? I'd also get a new vet for tomorrow.

(americain was taken from pletcher, put in right races at right distance, winning at 1-3/4 and finally won at 2 miles to win the Melbourne Cup. Tells you a lot about Pletcher, who couldn't get anything out of this horse.)

[johnhannibalsmith]

Why would ANYONE blame the jockey?

Jockeys don't scratch horses. If they do, I've never seen it in the charts.

...

Semantics 102.

[igiveupregistering]

Pletcher is the one with the responsibility to scratch LAT before the race.

The ESPN broadcast showed Pletcher and JV confering BEFORE the race. Pletcher knew what JV was thinking and most likely made the decision to race even though he knew something was amiss.

I think JV did his job. He told the trainer. The trainer made the call.

[WinterTriangle]

You give him credit for stiffing a horse?

What choice did he have? Her reported the horse to the proper people who have the responsibility to scratch the horse. The Vet, and the trainer.


I guess once they decided to send the horse anyway, Jock could have made a big deal and refuse to ride the horse, even though the TRAINER and VET, who have the responsibility to scratch a horse, sent the horse thru to the race?

Chain of command.

If he didn't stiff the horse, she may very well have died out there.

What choice did he have?

[SmartyLane]

We were right behind the starting gate, and I have video of LAT going in the gate. Not knowing about ANY of this prior to the race when she took off, we looked at each other like WTF is going on here. 30 yards out of the gate I looked at my brother and said she is not right. Still after the race nobody around me had a clue and was still WTF is going on.

This hotel internet is bad, so I will upload when we get back home for you all to see. You can see the 1 going in the gate and her head is down and walking sluggishly, and then the 6 goes in next up on her toes and head up. Rewatched the video after we realized all this occured and it is easy to see she just wanted right.

[nearco]

(americain was taken from pletcher, put in right races at right distance, winning at 1-3/4 and finally won at 2 miles to win the Melbourne Cup. Tells you a lot about Pletcher, who couldn't get anything out of this horse.)

Yeah, what it tells us about TP is that there really isn't much in the way of 1-3/4 to 2m races for him to run Americain in. Is somehow that TPs fault?
What exactly was he supposed to get out of the horse that Royer Dupre did?

[nijinski]

Why would ANYONE blame the jockey?

Jockeys don't scratch horses. If they do, I've never seen it in the charts.

(It sure didn't work for the jockeys at Penn when they didn't want to ride Gill's horses. :rolleyes: remember? They had to give up pay and go on strike by themselves with zero support. Jocks have no power unless their trainers respect and trust their opinion.)

Pletcher is derelict here. Horse under his charge, and for which he gets paid to train, was not okay, and he let the jock get on the horse, as well as put the horse and other riders at risk. He knows, or hopefully knows, his horses better than the vet at CD? I'd also get a new vet for tomorrow.

(americain was taken from pletcher, put in right races at right distance, winning at 1-3/4 and finally won at 2 miles to win the Melbourne Cup. Tells you a lot about Pletcher, who couldn't get anything out of this horse.)
I agree Pletcher has to fess up , but as well JV needed to bail and the final decision should have been made by the Vet , they do scratch horses;
Bottem line now , there needs to be an investigation .

Sorry WT , I just saw your next post pretty mich agreed on this.

[johnhannibalsmith]

What choice did he have? ...

What choice did he have?

NOT RIDE THE HORSE.

Are you serious? You may not find him the most culpable, but you're patting the guy on the back for possibly saving her life by giving her the ole' $50 gallop. Would you still feel the same way if she had incurred a terrible injury nonetheless? Just decided that well, Johnny did everything he could, he throttled her down to 6 knots...

Please, at that level, on that stage - if you're committed to just holding your breath and seeing if she does it on her own - then you need to just remember that you are at the Breeder's Cup and this is for real with the world watching, looking for an excuse. Be a professional and do the right thing. It's a pretty simple choice, really.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Why would ANYONE blame the jockey?

Jockeys don't scratch horses. If they do, I've never seen it in the charts.

(It sure didn't work for the jockeys at Penn when they didn't want to ride Gill's horses. :rolleyes: remember? They had to give up pay and go on strike by themselves with zero support. Jocks have no power unless their trainers respect and trust their opinion.)

Pletcher is derelict here. Horse under his charge, and for which he gets paid to train, was not okay, and he let the jock get on the horse, as well as put the horse and other riders at risk. He knows, or hopefully knows, his horses better than the vet at CD? I'd also get a new vet for tomorrow.

(americain was taken from pletcher, put in right races at right distance, winning at 1-3/4 and finally won at 2 miles to win the Melbourne Cup. Tells you a lot about Pletcher, who couldn't get anything out of this horse.)

It happens all the time. The jock warms the horse up, and something doesn't feel right. The jock says something to the state vet. After watching the horse, the state vet typically scratches the horse. Ergo, the jockey can absolutely be blamed in part. But none of this is reported to equibase of course.

[Saratoga_Mike]

NOT RIDE THE HORSE.

Are you serious? You may not find him the most culpable, but you're patting the guy on the back for possibly saving her life by giving her the ole' $50 gallop. Would you still feel the same way if she had incurred a terrible injury nonetheless? Just decided that well, Johnny did everything he could, he throttled her down to 6 knots...

Please, at that level, on that stage - if you're committed to just holding your breath and seeing if she does it on her own - then you need to just remember that you are at the Breeder's Cup and this is for real with the world watching, looking for an excuse. Be a professional and do the right thing. It's a pretty simple choice, really.

Great post.

[Tom]

WHy the hell were his odds so low if everyone knew about this? the last i saw he was 7/2 when they were going into the gate.

You only knew if you were watching ESPN. Everyone else was under the assumption that one of the biggest races of the year would be honestly ridden. The fools.

[RXB]

NOT RIDE THE HORSE.

Are you serious? You may not find him the most culpable, but you're patting the guy on the back for possibly saving her life by giving her the ole' $50 gallop. Would you still feel the same way if she had incurred a terrible injury nonetheless? Just decided that well, Johnny did everything he could, he throttled her down to 6 knots...

Please, at that level, on that stage - if you're committed to just holding your breath and seeing if she does it on her own - then you need to just remember that you are at the Breeder's Cup and this is for real with the world watching, looking for an excuse. Be a professional and do the right thing. It's a pretty simple choice, really.

So he refuses to ride. They still don't have to scratch the horse. Another jockey takes the mount and now maybe his life is at risk, in addition to the horse's life.

[WJ47]

I needed Life at Ten, Blind Luck or Havre de Grace for my Pick 3!

Is the mare okay? Did they find something wrong with her?

[turfnsport]

I needed Life at Ten, Blind Luck or Havre de Grace for my Pick 3!

Is the mare okay? Did they find something wrong with her?

The report is she is doing better than your Pick 3 ticket. :ThmbUp:

[Saratoga_Mike]

So he refuses to ride. They still don't have to scratch the horse. Another jockey takes the mount and now maybe his life is at risk, in addition to the horse's life.

He refuses to ride, putting the onus on the state vet to do his job!

[WJ47]

The report is she is doing better than your Pick 3 ticket. :ThmbUp:

LOL! :) I hope I fare better tomorrow.

[johnhannibalsmith]

So he refuses to ride. They still don't have to scratch the horse. Another jockey takes the mount and now maybe his life is at risk, in addition to the horse's life.

Assuming that they didn't scratch her, which I'm not inclined to believe would happen, but...

John did the right thing at that point if he refuses the mount.

This is what is wrong. Everyone can find a reason why they shouldn't have made the prudent decision because they can find a reason why someone else should have. It has to start with someone having the conscience to do something. In my mind, the rider and horse are most entwined at that moment - they are the two risking everything - not anyone else involved, and maybe its me, but John V looked every much like a guy that didn't want to ride that mare.

But I know what that spot is like for him so I have some compassion for his position, particularly after Quality Road last year. But I'm still critical of the decision not to express the same concern to state officials by all accounts that he expressed to his (former) peer, an empathetic someone that perhaps he felt unreasonably comfortable discussing the situation with.

When it comes to horses - practically everything is ultimately out of your control. Don't blow it when that isn't the case.

[Sericm]

He basically stiffed her out of the gate. Lame or not lame, once that gate opens you have to ride hard all the way. If you plan on protecting the horse all the way, don't run.

You are a complete moron if you take this attitude. Obviously there was something wrong with the horse. If Pletcher or the Vets didn't see anything wrong and let her load then Velasquez did the correct thing to protect the horse. What, he should persevere with her so you could collect your crummy bet.

Better the horse DIES, than someone should lose a couple of dollars, that would be great for racing wouldn't it. The jockey should be given a medal.

[Linny]

You can't get blood from a stone. "Persevering" with LAT wouldn't have made her run any better. It might make someone who bet her feel better for a moment you they still have a losing ticket.

I don't know who is to blame but Pletcher appeared to know before JV arrived in the paddock that LAT was "not herself." He chose to go ahead and not request a vet in the paddock. JV didn't ask the vet to go over her on the track. Once it was clear at the break that LAT was not right, nothing JV could have done would have fixed things.

[Stillriledup]

You are a complete moron if you take this attitude. Obviously there was something wrong with the horse. If Pletcher or the Vets didn't see anything wrong and let her load then Velasquez did the correct thing to protect the horse. What, he should persevere with her so you could collect your crummy bet.

Better the horse DIES, than someone should lose a couple of dollars, that would be great for racing wouldn't it. The jockey should be given a medal.

BzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzT, incorrect, try again. What does Sericm win, Johnny.?

Listen. John Velazques is a jockey, he's not a vet, he's not a trainer, he's not a groom and he's not a state steward. He's a jockey, which means AS a jockey he's paid to do ONE THING. Ride. The. Horse.

He's NOT to be making decisions on when he should try and when he should not try. Hes paid to ride to win and give full effort to do that. If he feels that he WONT be able to give full effort he is not supposed to go in the gate with that mount.

Trainers train, judges judge, vets vet, stewards stew and RIDERS RIDE.

If that horse goes into the gate and the gate opens, as a bettor, i'm to assume the horse is 100 percent fit to ride. If the jock decides he's not going to ride that mount out all the way, i have to assume he didnt' give full effort to win. That's called a stiff job.

[RXB]

Assuming that they didn't scratch her, which I'm not inclined to believe would happen, but...


You're right that if he refuses to ride, that gives Pletcher a chance to say "I'm not putting another rider on the horse." I think our basic feelings on the matter are fairly similar. My point is just that if Velasquez has gone to the vet and expressed concern, and the vet says nope, she's running, then maybe JV feels that staying aboard and wrapping up is the safest thing for the horse. Hard to say; lots of politics and jockey-trainer relationship stuff involved, too. (The Maker-Gomez incident as a case in point.)

[Shelby]

I hold Todd P. in the highest regard....I've never seen or heard stories of him putting a horse in danger. He is certainly a talented, money-making top trainer, so I have to think that surely he wouldn't deliberately run a horse that wasn't acting right...but, yet, he did :confused:

[johnhannibalsmith]

You're right that if he refuses to ride, that gives Pletcher a chance to say "I'm not putting another rider on the horse." I think our basic feelings on the matter are fairly similar. My point is just that if Velasquez has gone to the vet and expressed concern, and the vet says nope, she's running, then maybe JV feels that staying aboard and wrapping up is the safest thing for the horse. Hard to say; lots of politics and jockey-trainer relationship stuff involved, too. (The Maker-Gomez incident as a case in point.)

I know how these things go in the day to day grind of racing and I've been in the middle of a similar situation. My exasperation obviously is not directed at you, but just with the reality that we just can't seem to help but to offer up ammunition for those taking aim at the sport.

It's Breeder's Cup day. A national audience can hear the jock at t-minus 69 seconds tell them that his mount, the favorite, does not feel right at all.

That's it. End of story. If elite national jockey riding for elite national trainer on elite national racehorse in premier championship race tells the television audience how poorly his horse is warming up - PULL THE PLUG.

I thought I was just about immune to this sort of amateurish thing happening in racing and yet I feel among the most outraged that I had to watch it on our premier "Championship" day.

By all accounts the filly is fine, but my god, I am so sick about hearing about Congress that the last thing I want to hear about is Congress investigating racing again. We get more ambulances, a fancier cast, better access to the gaps, no more Equipoise, pre-race exams - BUT THE JOCK GOES ON TV BEFORE THE RACE AND SAYS SORRY CHARLIE - and what??!?!?!? She gets the $50 gallop.

It's a bullshit move when it's a $7,500 claimer and some poor shmuck is getting one rammed up his ass plain as day and it's just as shallow a maneuver in a Grade I race even if you (we) find the motives more palatable. It doesn't justify the risks posed and it certainly doesn't justify the dead money in the pools.

[chickenhead]

I noticed about 3 days ago on TVG, in an interview Pletcher was asked one of those inane, open ended questions about the distaff, like "you have 2 horses entered, how are you feeling about that race?", he talked solely about Malibu Prayer for about 1 minute, how well she was doing, where he wants her placed, that she's kind of overlooked, etc, without referencing L@10, end of answer.

It was odd enough that I remember thinking "that's odd". Could be totally unrelated, maybe he was just tired of talking about L@10 and was giving MP's owner a reach around, but it was odd.

[exiles]

It happens all the time. The jock warms the horse up, and something doesn't feel right. The jock says something to the state vet. After watching the horse, the state vet typically scratches the horse. Ergo, the jockey can absolutely be blamed in part. But none of this is reported to equibase of course.

T.P new she wasn,t right and still run her.
Quote from the DRF (Todd Pletcher, said after the race that he was concerned while saddling in the paddock because Life At Ten was acting, in his words, “abnormally quiet,”)

[bigmack]

T.P new she wasn,t right and still run her.
Quote from the DRF (Todd Pletcher, said after the race that he was concerned while saddling in the paddock because Life At Ten was acting, in his words, “abnormally quiet,”)
Holy Tomato Paste, sounds like a cover up being he said that.

[Grits]

I'm hearing she tyed up.
She had to be uncomfortable , the Vet may have some explaining to do.

Pletcher should have scratched her before the race went off. Too, Dr.Bramladge should've been able to see something was wrong, and to know, if she wasn't lame that something else was obviously amiss.

This shouldn't have all been left up to JV. He never indicated that she was lame, not at any point in talking with Bailey before the race. His comments were she wasn't right, she wasn't warming up well at all. Short time later, still no better.

After the race, Pletcher commented that she may have been tying up, that she wasn't at all like herself in the paddock, therefore, she should've never left the paddock, but instead returned to her barn.

Fillies are far more prone to tying up than colts; having seen one tie up after working in the morning at Keeneland; she was dead less than 72 hours later.

Hope L@Ten comes back okay.

[Jasonm921]

I just watched the race....I put my bets in earlier at OTB and then went out and DVR'd the race. I fast forwarded right up till the start of the race and watched Life at Ten come out of the gate looking like a 15 year old retired Trotter. I later find out that there was controversy prior to the race, so I reviewed the tape.....gotta tell ya I am disgusted that Life at Ten was allowed to get in that gate. This horse almost became the most famous horse in America-for all the wrong reasons. If this horse would have broken down...it would have made all the incidents in the past look like child's play. There would have been Statuatory Laws named after this filly. Disgusting!!!!

[thaskalos]

The "dead" money wagered on Life At Ten, in the STRAIGHT pools alone...

WIN.......$308,339

PLACE....$ 87,479

SHOW....$ 56,025

[eastie]

I needed Life at Ten, Blind Luck or Havre de Grace for my Pick 3!

Is the mare okay? Did they find something wrong with her?

me too. the last thing I said before the race was "i wish I had the 8 instead of the 1.

[WJ47]

me too. the last thing I said before the race was "i wish I had the 8 instead of the 1.

I said that too! As they loaded Unbridled Belle in the gate, she looked fantastic!

I was just watching the complete coverage on my DVR and I think it is terrible that they ran her. JR clearly said, "No," when they asked if she was warming up better. Can you imagine how much money she burned up in all the pools?

[nijinski]

Pletcher should have scratched her before the race went off. Too, Dr.Bramladge should've been able to see something was wrong, and to know, if she wasn't lame that something else was obviously amiss.

This shouldn't have all been left up to JV. He never indicated that she was lame, not at any point in talking with Bailey before the race. His comments were she wasn't right, she wasn't warming up well at all. Short time later, still no better.

After the race, Pletcher commented that she may have been tying up, that she wasn't at all like herself in the paddock, therefore, she should've never left the paddock, but instead returned to her barn.

Fillies are far more prone to tying up than colts; having seen one tie up after working in the morning at Keeneland; she was dead less than 72 hours later.

Hope L@Ten comes back okay.

I don't think hr Pletcher can scratch that simply, I believe the Vet has to make the late scratch , all the more reason for JV to have refused to ride and tell the Vet he thinks she's in distress.
There was obviously a breakdown in communicating on the track , but not on the air.

[WinterTriangle]

If he feels that he WONT be able to give full effort he is not supposed to go in the gate with that mount.

So that another rider can just be put on the horse, like in this case, and you get stiffed anyway?
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76547&page=1&pp=15&highlight=gomez

I think you were among those who thought that Gomez just didn't WANT to ride this particular horse, for monetary reasons, and was using the horse not being "right" as an excuse.


Trainers train, judges judge, vets vet, stewards stew and RIDERS RIDE.
Lame or not lame, once that gate opens you have to ride hard all the way. If you plan on protecting the horse all the way, don't run.

By the same token, in your compartimentalized view of things, bettors just bet.

If you do not feel that you can put your wager 100% behind what you bet on, then you shouldn't go to the window with it, don't bet.


Riders ride with knowledge of the occupational hazard that they may be paralyzed for life due to a spill.

Your wager is way down the list in the scheme of life and it's sanctity, both of a horse as well as a person.

When it appears that the trainer, the vet, and the stewards have not done their job, it is still a rider's job just to ride or not ride, and a bettors job to just bet or not bet?

In my world, there's a lot more conscience required in the mix, and a lot more gray area.

If that horse goes into the gate and the gate opens, as a bettor, i'm to assume the horse is 100 percent fit to ride. If the jock decides he's not going to ride that mount out all the way, i have to assume he didnt' give full effort to win. That's called a stiff job.

No, it's called being a rational human being with a conscience who will undoubtedly err on the side of saving lives, both horses and people, when the other mechanisms in place (trainer, vet, stewards) are not working, or are working dysfunctionally.

When life and limb is in the balance, your money is not more important than life. That is part of the "risks" of wagering.

Horsemen, jockeys, trainers, and bettors all have risk in this game. We respect the ones who whine the least about it.

[depalma113]

If JR cared about the horse he would have refused to ride. He didn't. By walking her out of the gate, he shares in the culpability, stop trying to make him into a saint.

If the rider isn't willing to give 100% effort on the horse, he or she needs to find a new occupation. Contrary to popular belief, the bettors money is the only reason these races exist.

Everyone who placed a wager on that horse was robbed last night.

[JBmadera]

I read this a.m. that the 3 vets said the horse looked fine to them before and after the race but that further testing would be done

[GARY Z]

Jerry Bailey was almost frantic in his analysis of LAT at about 8 minutes to
post prior to the race, and there were actual discussions with JV who admitted Lat was not acting right while warming up.

Anyone watching NYRA on a weekly basis will note jockeys can and will
request horses of ANY Claibre scratched if they aren't right and we ,as spectators, have no real clue of the issue unless we see the actual visible
issue(ie gate trouble).

The damning thing about this incident are the discussion between ,
of all parties, ESPN, and the Jockey, as against the Jockey requesting a Vet to check LAT and risking this horse's career and life while in distress.

Finally, it was a no brainer when Quality Road was scratched last
year due to his behavior at the gate.Same Trainer,same jock,
and the bottom line, a wise decision to scratch the horse as against
the event of last night.

I would love to be that fly on the wall listening to Pletcher and JV
explain their rationale in running LAT.
Were I the owner, I might be thinking of doing a "BOREL" #
on both of these #$%#%%(editing my profanity).

[Jasonm921]

I read this a.m. that the 3 vets said the horse looked fine to them before and after the race but that further testing would be done


They have to say this....anything else would mean that they are subject to discipline.

[jognlope]

Anthony Morino mad as heck this morning on OTB talking horses. Bettors were screwed and just get a REFUND

[onefast99]

I needed Life at Ten, Blind Luck or Havre de Grace for my Pick 3!

Is the mare okay? Did they find something wrong with her?
She had a reaction to the lasix, very normal but should have been picked up by the track vet at the gate especially if JR was concerned that he couldn't get her to warm up properly.

[DJofSD]

Normal? In what way is that normal?

[EagleEye Po]

It is the Stewarts job to PROTECT THE WAGERING PUBLIC. It is not Pletcher or JV responsibility. The Stewarts did not do their job, plain and simple.

Integrity of the game is the number one issue facing the industry today (takeout a distant second).

How does the industry expect to attract new customers and hold their current ones when they place such a low priority on PROTECTING THE WAGERING PUBLIC??

Hopefully the exposure and circumstances surrounding Life at Ten will force the industry to take the proper steps to PROTECT THE WAGERING PUBLIC while there are still some customers!

[Pace Cap'n]

In the post-race interview, Pletcher said LaT was quite subdued in the paddock...his quote was "she almost appeared to be sedated". I thought "sedated" was an interesting choice of words--not lethargic, or listless or some such, but "sedated'.

JV was smiling when he talked to TP after dismounting, but it looked to me like the sort of smile one would have when telling someone something they know he doesn't really want to hear.

Also, I have a recollection of JV saying he did ask the vet about the horse. Can anyone with a recording of the post-race interviews confirm that?

All in all, what a rip-off.

[Grits]

I don't think hr Pletcher can scratch that simply, I believe the Vet has to make the late scratch , all the more reason for JV to have refused to ride and tell the Vet he thinks she's in distress.
There was obviously a breakdown in communicating on the track , but not on the air.

This was part of the point in my post. I'm aware the vet makes the call. Dr.Bramlage should have noted something was wrong with the horse and HE should have spoken up, and taken the horse out of the race. This is one of his primary reasons for being on the track, of course.

[Spendabuck85]

This was part of the point in my post. I'm aware the vet makes the call. Dr.Bramlage should have noted something was wrong with the horse and HE should have spoken up, and taken the horse out of the race. This is one of his primary reasons for being on the track, of course.

Dr. Larry Bramlage on Life At Ten

"Life At Ten, along with all of the other horses that started in the Ladies’ Classic, was observed on the track prior to entering the starting gate by three veterinarians. The vet team did not observe any physical problems. She was examined again after the race and again no physical problems were observed. A more in-depth examination will be conducted this evening and tomorrow. "

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/dr-larry-bramlage-on-life-at-ten/

[GatetoWire]

She had a reaction to the lasix, very normal but should have been picked up by the track vet at the gate especially if JR was concerned that he couldn't get her to warm up properly.

If that is what happened then it explains her behavior.

It does happen.....it's not normal because almost every horse gets Lasix and it only happens a few times a year.

My family trains harness horses and I have seen it there only a very small number of times. 3-4 in the last 5+ years across hundreds and hundreds of horses getting Lasix.

[Saratoga_Mike]

T.P new she wasn,t right and still run her.
Quote from the DRF (Todd Pletcher, said after the race that he was concerned while saddling in the paddock because Life At Ten was acting, in his words, “abnormally quiet,”)

Okay, I didn't say anything about Pletcher's culpabilty.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Pletcher should have scratched her before the race went off. Too, Dr.Bramladge should've been able to see something was wrong, and to know, if she wasn't lame that something else was obviously amiss.

This shouldn't have all been left up to JV. He never indicated that she was lame, not at any point in talking with Bailey before the race. His comments were she wasn't right, she wasn't warming up well at all. Short time later, still no better.

After the race, Pletcher commented that she may have been tying up, that she wasn't at all like herself in the paddock, therefore, she should've never left the paddock, but instead returned to her barn.

Fillies are far more prone to tying up than colts; having seen one tie up after working in the morning at Keeneland; she was dead less than 72 hours later.

Hope L@Ten comes back okay.

I understand your sentiment here, but I think the jock is the last line of defense. He should have said something to the state vet, imo.

[Nets]

I understand your sentiment here, but I think the jock is the last line of defense. He should have said something to the state vet, imo.

That's what I don't get. He was more than willing to honestly assess the situation to a TV interviewer live where millions could hear, and yet doesn't seem to have expressed a similar concern to those he should have.

[Spendabuck85]

Capital OTB spoke to John Veitch who stated that neither Pletcher or Velasquez mentioned anything to the stewards or track vets before the race and that both are going to be called in for questioning.

[DJofSD]

And who's going to question the stewards and the track vets?

As the thread title says, it's a sham. Those officals are there to protect the betting public's interest. I certainly do not feel they protected my interest. If appearances mean anything, it looks like they were protecting the interest of the state. The bottom line is the bottom line: bettors got fleeced.

[classhandicapper]

I thought the biggest lesson of all this was how important it is to watch the warm up. We've all probably bet dozens of horses like that in our lives and were mystified by why the horse ran so poorly.

[onefast99]

If that is what happened then it explains her behavior.

It does happen.....it's not normal because almost every horse gets Lasix and it only happens a few times a year.

My family trains harness horses and I have seen it there only a very small number of times. 3-4 in the last 5+ years across hundreds and hundreds of horses getting Lasix.
Pletcher commented that the horse tyed up, there have been many documented cases of horses reacting in this fashion to lasix. One of the other contributing factors in last nights case with Life at Ten was stress. Some of it could have been caused by the lights, the crowd noise etc etc. There were several track vets who felt the horse was fine and let her go to the gate. If Valasquez felt the horse wasn't right he should have approached the outrider to summon the vet to look at her one more time.

[onefast99]

And who's going to question the stewards and the track vets?

As the thread title says, it's a sham. Those officals are there to protect the betting public's interest. I certainly do not feel they protected my interest. If appearances mean anything, it looks like they were protecting the interest of the state. The bottom line is the bottom line: bettors got fleeced.
Agree.

[Spendabuck85]

Excerpt from drf.com:
There apparently was a disconnect between what Velazquez told Jerry Bailey on the nationally televised show, and what he told, or did not tell, track veterinarians. Velazquez apparently never brought his concerns to the on-track veterinarians, and none of them noticed anything amiss. So, Life At Ten, the second choice at 7-2, was loaded in the gate, but was disinterested as soon as the gate opened. Normally on or near the lead, she quickly dropped well back, obviously out of sorts. She finished last in the field of 11, nearly a furlong behind the rest of the field, including the victorious Unrivaled Belle.

“Life At Ten, along with all of the other horses that started in the Ladies’ Classic, was observed on the track prior to entering the starting gate by three veterinarians,” Dr. Larry Bramlage, the On-Call veterinarian for the American Association of Equine Practitioners, said in a statement Friday night. “The vet team did not observe any physical problems. She was examined again after the race and again no physical problems were observed.”

In the winner’s circle immediately following the race, Bramlage said, “None of the vets saw anything wrong with her. Velazquez didn’t say anything to the vets before the race.”

Todd Pletcher, the trainer of Life At Ten, said Saturday morning that Life At Ten had an electrolyte imbalance which caused her to tie up, or cramp.
Pletcher said that blood work taken on Life At Ten confirmed that her muscle enzymes were elevated.

“The best we can deduce it probably was an electrolyte imbalance as a result of an adverse reaction to Lasix which has never been an issue with her,” Pletcher said.

Pletcher said that he had noticed before the race that Life At Ten was “abnormally quiet,” and he warned Velazquez about it. In hindsight, Pletcher said following the race, Life At Ten “should not have run.”
http://www.drf.com/news/chaotic-breeders-cup-friday-sets-stage-big-day-2

[Robert Goren]

There nothing like races being covered by big time tv to make us realize how little we know about a horse when he enters the gate. How many bets do we make in week in which the horse we bet has no chance because he is suddenly off his game? Heaven only knows.

[AgainstAllOdds]

I'm not so sure it's wrong to say anything at the gate. Didn't Gomez walk away from a horse just a week or so ago. Ticked the trainer off, but the horse didn't run good. Gomez made the right call, and when the trainer wanted him to ride again a few days later he said NO. Valesquez should have walked away too. From the trainer, to the jock, to the vet...they are all to blame for letting that horse run, even though I hadn't bet him...felt bad for those that had.

[foregoforever]

More from Privman's DRF article:

Pletcher said that Life At Ten was to have been withdrawn from Sunday’s Fasig-Tipton November Breeding Stock sale at the Newtown Paddocks.

“We’ll give it a few days to dissect it all to see whether she’s fine to put back in training if they decide to do that, or if not it’s possible she could show up at a later sale,” Pletcher said.

Absolutely right, Todd. We wouldn't to have some would-be buyers invest any of their money in the horse without knowing exactly what's going on. That would be very wrong.

[cj]

So ESPN did inform the stewards, but they chose to do nothing.

[johnhannibalsmith]

So ESPN did inform the stewards, but they chose to do nothing.

Now, now, they didn't not not do nothing... they did manage to pass the buck as well...

[Sly7449]

Two recent post:

Quote
"A quick word about the BC... Form cycle is a good way to tell of the trainer's intention. As a general rule, form analysis does not work so well on racing days like BC, Ky Derby, etc. because it is safe to assume that everyone is "well-intended" on these days".


This General Rule may have been broken in this case.

Also, check out Mountanman's post

Thread 107 - 113

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75586&page=8&pp=15

[Fingal]

We need a class action lawsuit against Churchill Downs, the track vets and Todd Pletcher.

With the man who has experience in these things-

Paging Jerry Jamgotchian, paging Jerry Jam..........

[cj's dad]

I give Johnny V alot of credit, he basically pulled her up, the horse is the most important thing, he didn't look like he was laughing at all

When he was talking with TP in the center of the track after the race he most certainly was laughing.

[Hanover1]

[/b]

When he was talking with TP in the center of the track after the race he most certainly was laughing.

There was nothing to laugh about imo. Stewards should make them answer/pay for not presenting a viable product that you guys bet down to 7/2. Admitting knowledge of something amiss prior to post by both parties spells it all out.
My party watching the race understood she tied up, as she pulled up sound after the dash. It is actually a mute point and only serves to show that TP felt she was not going to break down, but needed to stay moving, as tie ups do. Regardless, everyone deserves a refund, and TP-JV deserve days for not having a viable product present itself as described.

[igiveupregistering]

You only knew if you were watching ESPN. Everyone else was under the assumption that one of the biggest races of the year would be honestly ridden. The fools.

The NY papers reported that "At least $2million-$3 million was bet on Life At Ten. Her bettors got zilch for their dough"

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/horse_racing/ups_and_downs_of_the_cup_vGOZrIwLH5rHWdpB26GAXL

The Breeders Cup is the corrupt organization here. Did not want to lose the 3 million that was pure profit for them...no scratch...no refunds.

The vets were in collusion with the BC management. The vet doesn't scratch the horse on the recommendation of the jockey and trainer because there was nothing "visibly" wrong with the horse.

The BC organization is a collection of crooks.

[DJofSD]

The NY papers reported that "At least $2million-$3 million was bet on Life At Ten. Her bettors got zilch for their dough"

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/horse_racing/ups_and_downs_of_the_cup_vGOZrIwLH5rHWdpB26GAXL

The Breeders Cup is the corrupt organization here. Did not want to lose the 3 million that was pure profit for them...no scratch...no refunds.

The vets were in collusion with the BC management. The vet doesn't scratch the horse on the recommendation of the jockey and trainer because there was nothing "visibly" wrong with the horse.

The BC organization is a collection of crooks.
There's an error. The money wagered on LaT was paid out to the winning tickets after the vig for the state.

[Stillriledup]

With the man who has experience in these things-

Paging Jerry Jamgotchian, paging Jerry Jam..........


Jerry Jam might be able to win this case, especially since the rider is quoted before the race saying something is not right with the horse.

[Spiderman]

I bet LAT early and was enroute home to watch race. From all my reading of incident would have to agree that she shoulda been scratched. Jockeys have dismounted and refused to ride; trainers are known to run horses who are not game for the race; vets and stewards are in collusion with management; CDI/BC management is all-caring about making profits.

Through all of the posts and one report in a newspaper, no mention has been forthcoming from the track vet. Was he under the table with Jack Daniels?

The racing media will probably not try to get to the bottom of the mess. Advertising revenues and track access may be put in jeopardy.

Coincidental to this incident, Angel Cordero, agent for the jockey in question, got his break by to riding a horse that Bob Ussery refused to ride. Horse won at Aqueduct, back in 60's. I recall that it was the 2nd race on the card.

[WinterTriangle]

there really isn't much in the way of 1-3/4 to 2m races for him to run Americain in.

I recognize the trueness of your comment, and this is of course part of the equation.

That is why I don't entirely eschew international racing. It offers me some stuff that I just can't get here.

As for the blame-game, my brother is in charge of safety and investigation of accidents for a hugely dangerous inudstry, for the entire northern hemisphere---based on all the figures, stats, as well as anecdotal stories, there usually is never *one* reason something collapses, blows up, or people get killed. There are any number of links in the chain, and every single one has to be utterly perfect, to the highest technical degree, for the whole system to work properly.

In this equation we have stewards, vet, trainer, jockey, and even the trained and un-trained eyes of spectators and handicappers watching the horse warm up and in the post parade. It took more than one of each of those categories to not man-up for this LAT thing to happen, IMHO.

[mbenton]

Want to make sure everyone understands that the vet does not make the scratch in this case. He/she ADVISES the stewards on if the horse should be scratched. What sense does it make for JRV to announce to ESPN that his horse isn't warming up well and not say anything to the vet? Everyone needs to take a longer look at the people who have "Protect the sports integrity" in their job titles, the Stewards. Neither JRV or TP have any say in actually scratching a horse once he is in the paddock. The state has much more to lose then anyone in this situation by a late scratch of a horse with millions on her in multiple pools.

[Greyfox]

Want to make sure everyone understands that the vet does not make the scratch in this case. He/she ADVISES the stewards on if the horse should be scratched. .

Would the stewards ever go against a vet who advised that a horse be scratched? I doubt it.
By the way, I think that this is the same vet that let Barbaro run after he crashed through the gate.

[JustRalph]

I don't know the rules. Can Pletcher arbitrarily scratch the horse behind the gate? What would happen if he called on the Jock to dismount and have an outrider lead the horse back to the paddock etc?

[PaceAdvantage]

By the way, I think that this is the same vet that let Barbaro run after he crashed through the gate.What makes you think this? I fail to grasp the connection.

[Grits]

What makes you think this? I fail to grasp the connection.

Dr.Larry Bramlage has been the on call/on track vet for the Triple Crown races for some time now, representing the American Asso. of Equine Practitioners. He was on call for Breeders' Cup as well.

Think what one may about this particular incident with Life At Ten, but he's one of the top vets in the country--he's practiced at the renowned Rood & Riddle Equine Clinic in Lexington for many, many years and has performed countless numbers of surgeries saving horses lives. He's tops in his field, therefore, highly respected.

[MNslappy]

Through all of the posts and one report in a newspaper, no mention has been forthcoming from the track vet.

KHRC chief veterinarian Dr. Bryce Peckham
bryce.peckham at ky.gov

There's the chief vet's email address, it's public, you should get a quote from him and report back to us.

[mbenton]

This is obviously not a claiming race, but think if this were the practice for claiming races. If I were a trainer I would set someone up by the drop box and if I saw someone drop a claim I'd pull my horse. Todd can pull his horse but is subject to fines and suspension. It also makes him look terrible because he knowingly sent an unsound horse to the paddock, by pulling him after that he is almost admiting incompetence. In Kentucky like many states stewards make the call at this point

[PaceAdvantage]

Dr.Larry Bramlage has been the on call/on track vet for the Triple Crown races for some time now, representing the American Asso. of Equine Practitioners. He was on call for Breeders' Cup as well.

Think what one may about this particular incident with Life At Ten, but he's one of the top vets in the country--he's practiced at the renowned Rood & Riddle Equine Clinic in Lexington for many, many years and has performed countless numbers of surgeries saving horses lives. He's tops in his field, therefore, highly respected.Dr. Bramlage isn't at the starting gate scratching horses. He's the face they put on TV to explain what the guys at the gate radio into him...unless I'm way off base here...

I remember Barbaro being examined before being put back into the gate...I don't recall Dr. Bramlage being the one giving him the once over.

If I'm wrong, I'd like to see the evidence. There must be videos of this all over YouTube.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I don't know the rules. Can Pletcher arbitrarily scratch the horse behind the gate? What would happen if he called on the Jock to dismount and have an outrider lead the horse back to the paddock etc?

No Ralph, not arbitrarily - and for obvious reasons, among them the claiming issue the poster above mentions or the potential for pari-mutuel capers...

...but in this case - if he phoned up and explained the situation and said, hey look, this is a bad time to scratch, but she's worth whatever she brings in a couple of days here and we don't need any Barbaro stories, especially now that my jock has sent a national audience back to the windows with their tickets by talking too much...

I think the stews and the vet and the jock and the trainer and the owner and mutuels and everyone could see the light here and do the right thing.

[nijinski]

Bramlage made a statement that the horse was observed before and the horse was examned after the race and they could not find anyrhing wrong.

I know he has a reputation as a top Equine Surgeon , but someone has to take responsibility . No one has shown any interest in extending an apology for the huge losses and for a poor cramped up dehydrated filly in distress.

BTW . Dr. Bramalage was the Vet that called Quality Road's actions as
that of a Juvenile Delinquent last year. I thought that was funny , not sure the connections did.

[Greyfox]

Dr. Bramlage isn't at the starting gate scratching horses. He's the face they put on TV to explain what the guys at the gate radio into him...unless I'm way off base here...

I remember Barbaro being examined before being put back into the gate...I don't recall Dr. Bramlage being the one giving him the once over.

If I'm wrong, I'd like to see the evidence. There must be videos of this all over YouTube.

1. If there are videos of Barbaro breaking through the gate I can't find them.

2.If someone on this board has the video of the 2006 Preakness including the Barbaro prerace break could you please post it or point us to where it can be viewed.

3. My recollection is that Barbaro was taken behind the gate and reloaded.
If he was examined, the inspection was very quick.
The closest pics that I can find include Gary Stevens remarking:
"No harm, no foul."

4. If Dr. Bramlage is the Chief Track Vet the buck still stops with him, whether or not he's actually at the gate or not.

[DJofSD]

I always was under the impression that Dr. Bramlage was on air personality when he shows up on the TV on big race days. Is he the track vet or just some one that the talking heads can converse with when a question of a vet needs to be asked?

[Robert Fischer]

this was at once the best betting race of the weekend, and a black eye for the sport.

[Greyfox]

I always was under the impression that Dr. Bramlage was on air personality when he shows up on the TV on big race days. Is he the track vet or just some one that the talking heads can converse with when a question of a vet needs to be asked?

Grits stated:

"Dr.Larry Bramlage has been the on call/on track vet for the Triple Crown races for some time now, representing the American Asso. of Equine Practitioners. He was on call for Breeders' Cup as well."

[igiveupregistering]

And who's going to question the stewards and the track vets?

As the thread title says, it's a sham. Those officals are there to protect the betting public's interest. I certainly do not feel they protected my interest. If appearances mean anything, it looks like they were protecting the interest of the state. The bottom line is the bottom line: bettors got fleeced.

100% accurate.

If you weren't watching ESPN...you were sunk.

As explained in your earlier post, the money bet on LAT were added to the purse for the winners, so I'm not clear and why the BC staff didn't act to
withdraw LAT.
ALL the trade reports indicate that the ESPN crew notified the stewards and the BC big-wigs about the JV-Pletcher conversations, more than once.

Someone is lying.

[Hambletonian]

Johnny V told the national TV audience something he neglected to tell the vet. It was an unusual situation because I am going to bet that several dozen times a day a jockey may mouth off to the pony rider or nobody in particular that he has concerns over the soundness of his mount, but gives it a go anyway without any further ado. Chances are a million people or so do not overhear these conversations.

Johnny V, who must have hit his head hard sometime in the near past, did a really spectacularly stupid thing, calling into question the whole pre race looksee and vet checks, identifying a potentially dangerous situation then doing nothing about it. I can't recall the last time I ever heard anything of any substance out of the mouth of a jockey pre race, let alone "my horse is not going well."

Once Johnny V shared it with TV land, he was obligated to tell the stewards. If he did not believe there was a problem, he should have kept his mouth shut.

Don;t know about you guys, but for conduct detrimental to racing, he should be suspended for a couple of weeks at least.

[Greyfox]

Johnny V told the national TV audience something he neglected to tell the vet. .


Did anyone even see him talking to a vet or a vet looking at the horse?
I didn't and I had money on him.

[thaskalos]

If fairness towards the bettors was among the top priorities of this sport, then for sure JV would receive a suspension...but the bettors have always been at the bottom of their list of concerns.

I read somewhere on the internet that the horse was allowed to start because a slow gallop is what horses in this condition need. This is a very troubling statement, and very damaging to the integrity of this game.

There were almost $500,000 wagered on Life At Ten...in the straight pools alone!

[joanied]

It's true you need to keep a tie-up moving...but seems to me, they cpuld have taken LaT off the track and jogged her back to the paddock or the barn...not gallop her around the track as if she was still in the race.
I did not see a vet look at her behind the gate....maybe he just saw she was not moving lame, but it was obvious, if he'd looked at her sides, that the filly was cramping...so yes, keep her moving, but not as part of the race.
If the BC powers were smart, they'd ask everyone holding a ticket to get in line to get a refund...but no one evr said they were smart!!
Johnny V & Pletcher should be fined, big time...IMO, Pletcher should never have sent her out on the track...did he actually think the warm up might work her out of it?

[nijinski]

Did anyone even see him talking to a vet or a vet looking at the horse?
I didn't and I had money on him.
Bramlage next day statement was only that all horses were observed .
Time for a change at Churchill , everyone should call and or e-mail all high
authorities and let them know how porly handled this whole scenerio was.

[Greyfox]

Bramlage next day statement was only that all horses were observed .
Time for a change at Churchill , everyone should call and or e-mail all high
authorities and let them know how porly handled this whole scenerio was.


There are questions.

Bramlage's next day statement was only that "all horses were observed ."
(We all observed them. I bet.)
1. TV viewers were told the horse did not warm up well. (by jockey)
2. TV viewers were told the Stewards told the track vet to check Life at Ten
Did anyone see that happen?

Whether or not the "gate vet" knew or not is speculation.
Is observation enough? Did the jock or stewards tell the vet?

My money was on "Life at Ten."
Whether or not Bramlage was at the gate or not, begs the question as to why he wasn't? He's the "on call vet." Not the TV face, although he's the front man for the assistant vets.
I suppose that he at least gives a Paddock inspection.
(Whether or not Bramlage was at the gate also begs the question as to why he dismissed Barbaro's injury as not happening at the gate?
If he wasn't there, how would he know for sure?)

Did anyone see that any vet inspection of Life at Ten by a vet??

[Stillriledup]

There are questions.

Bramlage's next day statement was only that "all horses were observed ."
(We all observed them. I bet.)
1. TV viewers were told the horse did not warm up well. (by jockey)
2. TV viewers were told the Stewards told the track vet to check Life at Ten
Did anyone see that happen?

Whether or not the "gate vet" knew or not is speculation.
Is observation enough? Did the jock or stewards tell the vet?

My money was on "Life at Ten."
Whether or not Bramlage was at the gate or not, begs the question as to why he wasn't? He's the "on call vet." Not the TV face, although he's the front man for the assistant vets.
I suppose that he at least gives a Paddock inspection.
(Whether or not Bramlage was at the gate also begs the question as to why he dismissed Barbaro's injury as not happening at the gate?
If he wasn't there, how would he know for sure?)

Did anyone see that any vet inspection of Life at Ten by a vet??


If indeed LAT was checked out by the vet, he should be fired immediately for being wrong. You err on the side of caution, especially when HUGE money is being invested by the public.

Time for one of those class action thingys.

[Greyfox]

If indeed LAT was checked out by the vet, he should be fired immediately for being wrong. You err on the side of caution, especially when HUGE money is being invested by the public.

Time for one of those class action thingys.


Being fired from a 2 day job that shows up every few years ain't gonna hurt too much. I'd give thought to castration.

[Greyfox]

Lest we forget, there is another side to this story.

Malibu Prayer was Late at Ten's stable mate.

Late At Ten and Malibu Prayer were part of a "soft entry."

I bet both. (Yes, I've bet losers before.)

Malibu Prayer took the day off after the 6 f point after serving as "the rabbit."
Why? Is a good question. That steed had more run than that.

The other thought is : After the race, Pletcher said on TV:
"It looked like "Late At Ten" had an allergic reaction."

"An allergic reaction to what????"

That horse should have been tested by the track chemists up the ying yang.

[DJofSD]

Track chemists? Who's that?

[FenceBored]

Track chemists? Who's that?

Forget it, he's rolling. :D

[Greyfox]

Track chemists? Who's that?

People who work in the lavatory. :D

[johnhannibalsmith]

It's true you need to keep a tie-up moving...

Hmmmm....

This is sort of debatable old school thinking meeting newer science...

Ill agree that it's true that keeping a horse moving that is prone to tying up as a precaution (ie walking under tack prior to training or afternoon exercise to keep the muscles active, etc...) is good management for the chronic sufferers. But, once you suspect that a horse is tying up or can plainly see that is has effectively tied up, about the last thing contemporary science indicates as treatment is "keeping the horse moving."

[DJofSD]

Regardless of what the should have been done if LaT was actually tieing up, the horse should not have been loaded into the gate.

It's been how many days? And I'm still p*ssed off about it.

[joanied]

Hmmmm....

This is sort of debatable old school thinking meeting newer science...

Ill agree that it's true that keeping a horse moving that is prone to tying up as a precaution (ie walking under tack prior to training or afternoon exercise to keep the muscles active, etc...) is good management for the chronic sufferers. But, once you suspect that a horse is tying up or can plainly see that is has effectively tied up, about the last thing contemporary science indicates as treatment is "keeping the horse moving."

Well, you made me do some research...I admit, over the last couple of decades I haven't had to deal with a horse tying up (thank goodness)...so after your post, i thought maybe I'm on the wrong page these days...I read several articles, and all but two did recommend stopping a horse that is tying up...ya learn somethin' new everyday:) ...
and that actually brings up another thing about the entire Life at Ten fiasco...
if she was tying up (and it sure looked that way) and the gate vet, or even Bramlage in the paddock, should have taken a long look at the filly...allowing her to run might have made her condition far worse, so in that matter, they, the vets and Pletcher, were even more stupid about it than I thought...
I put the entire episode on the shoulders of Pletcher...any good horseman, seeing the way she was behaving in the paddock, should have pulled the plug right there...he should have called Bramlage over to check her out...her temperature should have been taken, she should have been observed both walking and standing...and she should have been scratched. If I were the owner of a valuble mare like her, I'd be furious at the trainer.

[Linny]

There's a difference between keeping a horse moving and running them in a race. Colics are kept walking too but I wouldn't run one wih colic.

Horses tying up need heavy fluids and some walking. Running 9f is generally not prescribed.

[cj's dad]

Although on a smaller scale this reminds me of the track vets giving a very cursory look at Barbaro after he broke through the gate. Late scratches in these big events cost the track mucho $$$$$$ !!

[thaskalos]

There has to be some consideration for the bettors in cases such as these...

[DJofSD]

Although on a smaller scale this reminds me of the track vets giving a very cursory look at Barbaro after he broke through the gate. Late scratches in these big events cost the track mucho $$$$$$ !!
Better they lose the money than me. :mad:

[joanied]

Although on a smaller scale this reminds me of the track vets giving a very cursory look at Barbaro after he broke through the gate. Late scratches in these big events cost the track mucho $$$$$$ !!

I beleive to this day that if Barbaro had been scratched, he'd still be with us...I cannot recall seeing him examined behind the gate that day...it all happened way too fast...they took him back there, then loaded him...like wham, bam, thank you m'am...he should have been closley checked...he wasn't:mad:

[joanied]

There's a difference between keeping a horse moving and running them in a race. Colics are kept walking too but I wouldn't run one wih colic.

Horses tying up need heavy fluids and some walking. Running 9f is generally not prescribed.

The ty-ups actually need more than that, but the bottom line here, with Life at Ten, is she shouldn't have made it out of the paddock, much less galloped around the track...no one knew what was going on with her...for cryin' out loud, for all 'they' knew she could have been having a heart attack, or some kind of system shut down...wouldn't it have been wonderful if she'd died on the track:rolleyes: ...I said it before, I'll say it again...shame on:ThmbDown: Pletcher for allowing her to get on the track, and shame on Johnny V for not getting off her behind the gate.
IMO, they are damned lucky it didn't get worse :mad:

[Greyfox]

I beleive to this day that if Barbaro had been scratched, he'd still be with us...I cannot recall seeing him examined behind the gate that day...it all happened way too fast...they took him back there, then loaded him...like wham, bam, thank you m'am...he should have been closley checked...he wasn't:mad:

Agreed. Barbaro's inspection reminded me of the phantom punch thrown by Cassius Clay in his first fight with Sonny Liston. Nobody saw it.

Yet after Barbaro broke down, Dr. Larry Bramlage, the track vet, dismissed any suggestions that the gate breakthrough could have caused the injury.
In Late at Ten's instance, I saw no evidence of any vet examining this horse that appeared to be in a trancelike state.

[joanied]

Agreed. Barbaro's inspection reminded me of the phantom punch thrown by Cassius Clay in his first fight with Sonny Liston. Nobody saw it.

Yet after Barbaro broke down, Dr. Larry Bramlage, the track vet, dismissed any suggestions that the gate breakthrough could have caused the injury.
In Late at Ten's instance, I saw no evidence of any vet examining this horse that appeared to be in a trancelike state.

UGH...I remember that fight :eek:

I have always thought that Barbaro sustained his injury when he broke through the gate...if he had run part of the race, then I'd have doubts, but since it happened several jumps out of the gate...I think the conclusion is easily drawn...he shoulda been scratched. Sometimes the pressure to run gets in the way of the welfare of a horse...and that goes back to Ruffian's match Race...never should have happened, but the pressure was so great, they felt they had to...
I played the Distaff Classic again, and I still do not se any vet back there checking her...I assume he was there, was watching her, but never actually had a hands on exam done...which is why Johnny V should have dis mounted...:mad:

[andymays]

LIFE AT TEN: Kentucky Stewards to Take No Action

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/life-at-ten-kentucky-stewards-to-take-no-action/

[joanied]

LIFE AT TEN: Kentucky Stewards to Take No Action

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/life-at-ten-kentucky-stewards-to-take-no-action/

Un-be-lievable :bang:

I mentioned in one of my posts about this, that at the very least, they should have taken her temperature in the paddock...not wait until afterwards, as mentioned in the article.
That no action is taken on this matter...well, that is criminal, IMO...the entire things is so much BS :mad:

[DJofSD]

This situation has reminded me of another similar occurance. It involved a mare whose name slips my mind at the moment. It was here in southern California. The problem was a day or two before he race, the owner more or less spilled the beans that the horse was not 100%. And the it ran way up the track after being sent off as the odds on favorite.

What was the name of that horse?

[PaceAdvantage]

UGH...I remember that fight :eek:

I have always thought that Barbaro sustained his injury when he broke through the gate...if he had run part of the race, then I'd have doubts, but since it happened several jumps out of the gate...I think the conclusion is easily drawn...he shoulda been scratched. Sometimes the pressure to run gets in the way of the welfare of a horse...and that goes back to Ruffian's match Race...never should have happened, but the pressure was so great, they felt they had to...
I played the Distaff Classic again, and I still do not se any vet back there checking her...I assume he was there, was watching her, but never actually had a hands on exam done...which is why Johnny V should have dis mounted...:mad:Nobody knows when Barbaro hurt himself. Conjecture that it happened when he broke through the gate is just that...conjecture..speculation...in other words, not worth much.

He could have easily injured himself during that early part of the race. He was in full gallop at the time...we all know how fragile these animals are...there is no reason why he couldn't have taken that all-too familiar "bad step" mere seconds out of the gate, and that's where all the damage happened.

Look at Eight Belles...she broke BOTH of her legs in the GALLOP OUT...anything can happen...any time...any place.

[RXB]

I've seen a zillion horses break through the gate, and never noticed any tendency among them to bust their legs at an unusual rate. (They rarely win, though.)

Seattle Slew broke through the gate before his famous Jockey Club Gold Cup.

[ArlJim78]

Based on my own observations, breakdowns like Barbaro's occurring in the opening quarter mile are exceedingly rare.

[joanied]

Nobody knows when Barbaro hurt himself. Conjecture that it happened when he broke through the gate is just that...conjecture..speculation...in other words, not worth much.

He could have easily injured himself during that early part of the race. He was in full gallop at the time...we all know how fragile these animals are...there is no reason why he couldn't have taken that all-too familiar "bad step" mere seconds out of the gate, and that's where all the damage happened.

Look at Eight Belles...she broke BOTH of her legs in the GALLOP OUT...anything can happen...any time...any place.

Don't need to tell me anything can happen anytime...that's a no brainer!!

Right...no one knows where Barbaro's injury occured...in the gate, or on the track...so, I guess we are both entitled to our opinion on the subject. My opinion is that it sure could have been in the gate.

[thaskalos]

Based on my own observations, breakdowns like Barbaro's occurring in the opening quarter mile are exceedingly rare.Exceedingly rare is an understatement...they are practically unheard of!

[Jackal]

Track vets are pressured not to scratch horses. Scratching a horse delays a race, causing all the track employees to get home late.

The health of the horse and the integrity of the wagering process should be more important than everyone getting home on time or the track paying a little overtiime.

In my opinion Life at Ten was tied up. When a horse ties up the muscle contractions aren't an instant danger to the horse/jockey but the people who have bet on the horse have lost their money before the gates open.

[thaskalos]

Track vets are pressured not to scratch horses. Scratching a horse delays a race, causing all the track employees to get home late.

The health of the horse and the integrity of the wagering process should be more important than everyone getting home on time or the track paying a little overtiime.

In my opinion Life at Ten was tied up. When a horse ties up the muscle contractions aren't an instant danger to the horse/jockey but the people who have bet on the horse have lost their money before the gates open.This is what happens when the racing officials consider this game to be an "athletic competition" rather than the gambling game that it is.

How can this game be called just an "athletic competition", when the physical condition of the "athletes" involved cannot be accurately determined pre-race?

[andymays]

Hear No Evil, See No Evil

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/hear-no-evil-see-no-evil/

Excerpt:

I’m not sure what size shoe he wears, but John Veitch must have a big mouth, because he just keeps sticking his foot in it.

[DJofSD]

Don't ask, don't tell.

[FenceBored]

This is what happens when the racing officials consider this game to be an "athletic competition" rather than the gambling game that it is.

How can this game be called just an "athletic competition", when the physical condition of the "athletes" involved cannot be accurately determined pre-race?

No, it's what happens when they let the 'event' take precedence over supervising an athletic competition. They probably figured the uproar from scratching her would be greater than the potential uproar from letting her run. But, given the way she ran they lost that bet.


"To my way of thinking, it was a very difficult decision in a race of that magnitude to just say, ‘Well, you know she's a little dull. I don't think she should run.' Then you get her back to the barn and she's 100 percent. What we know now is that she wasn't 100 percent … but except for the dullness it wasn't apparent to anybody.”
-- http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20101110/SPORTS08/311100128/1037/Veitch++Life+At+Ten+didn+t+need+to+be+scratched+fr om+Breeders++Cup+Ladies++Classic

[DJofSD]

No, we (I) lost the bet, they got to keep the vig.

[cj's dad]

Better they lose the money than me. :mad:

The pressure on a track vet(s) in a big race such as the Ladies Classic or Barbaro's Preakness is enormous. If they scratch these two, look at the money that it costs their employers; 15-20% of all WPS bets, 20-25% of all exactas, Tri's supers, etc... I know you understand that. I would think that barring an extremely obvious injury, the vet is not going to scratch at the gate.

Life at Ten is another situation entirely; anyone with a brain could see something was terribly wrong with her.

[FenceBored]

No, we (I) lost the bet, they got to keep the vig.

Would you settle for "it's both a floor wax and a dessert topping?"

The officials bet she'd perform well enough that those who bet money on her wouldn't notice how much they'd been hosed. When JR cantered her around the track, it became obvious, and made it a lose-lose. Those that lost money lost more, cause all the officials lost was a bit of face (the part covered by the egg).

[DJofSD]

Would you settle for "it's both a floor wax and a dessert topping?"The Don Draper in me says no. ;)

[DJofSD]

Life at Ten is another situation entirely; anyone with a brain could see something was terribly wrong with her.

That's true if you were on track or watching the ESPN coverage. But for those of us at an OTB where ESPN was not being shown, we didn't get the benefit of the JB conversation and the rest.

While at the OTB and seeing LaT basically walk out of the gate and perform a public work out during a race, I was disappointed to say the least. It wasn;t until later when I returned home to watch the ESPN recording on my DVR did I start to understand I got screwed.

[Tom]

Have I missed anything or has CD just basically swept this under the rug so far?

Add this to the total joke the Derby has become over the last few years, and CD looks more like a cancer on the game than anything.

[FenceBored]

Have I missed anything or has CD just basically swept this under the rug so far?

Add this to the total joke the Derby has become over the last few years, and CD looks more like a cancer on the game than anything.

It's the state stewards. Check out the Courier Journal article (http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20101110/SPORTS08/311100128/1037/Veitch++Life+At+Ten+didn+t+need+to+be+scratched+fr om+Breeders++Cup+Ladies++Classic) and the post on the Paulick Report (http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/hear-no-evil-see-no-evil/). John Veitch, the chief steward for the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission, is the one making the "move along now, nothing to see" pronouncements, not CD suits.

[joanied]

Churchill hasn't much interest in anything beyond their bottom line...

[toussaud]

everyone tried to get behind the CHRB ban. seriously.. I'm done with racing in the state of Kentucky as long as he is there. I didn't even have money on the race. I don't have to be treated like that as a client, I demand better and there are tracks that treat their clients better, and that's saying alot. That is the epitome of classless.

[Learned Hand35]

"Worse, Lisa Underwood, executive director of the KHRC said the commission is considering a rule that would prohibit jockeys from being interviewed on television once they mount a horse for a race. Both Veitch and association steward Rick Leigh favor the ban."

This is the most damning part of the article. Instead of trying to protect the integrity of the game (if there is any), we are going to make a regulation that ensures less transparency for the regular customers and at the same time, ensure that another human interest angle that might appeal to the casual or potential fan is removed.

These clowns already practice an anachronistic business model that is ensuring the demise of a sport already on life support. But hey, if we don't like our lack of integrity being exposed, we just make sure we shut the "leaks" up.

Guess Hugo Chavez is running the Banana Republic known as the KHRC.

[Greyfox]

]"Worse, Lisa Underwood, executive director of the KHRC said the commission is considering a rule that would prohibit jockeys from being interviewed on television once they mount a horse for a race. Both Veitch and association steward Rick Leigh favor the ban."[/b]



What a bunch of A holes. Treat the public like mushrooms.
"As if" the jockey interview was the cause of their incompetence.

[DJofSD]

"Worse, Lisa Underwood, executive director of the KHRC said the commission is considering a rule that would prohibit jockeys from being interviewed on television once they mount a horse for a race. Both Veitch and association steward Rick Leigh favor the ban."

This is the most damning part of the article. Instead of trying to protect the integrity of the game (if there is any), we are going to make a regulation that ensures less transparency for the regular customers and at the same time, ensure that another human interest angle that might appeal to the casual or potential fan is removed.

These clowns already practice an anachronistic business model that is ensuring the demise of a sport already on life support. But hey, if we don't like our lack of integrity being exposed, we just make sure we shut the "leaks" up.

Guess Hugo Chavez is running the Banana Republic known as the KHRC.
That is what I call the mushroom theory: keep you in the dark and feed you nothing but sh*t.

[joanied]

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/statement-on-behalf-of-candy-debartolo-owner-of-life-at-ten/

excerpt:
Candy DeBartolo:
"However, that doesn’t excuse the scenario that evolved prior to and after the race. It was made blatantly obvious to the millions of people watching the post parade that something was terribly amiss. The stewards were alerted by telephone to that fact by the ESPN production truck prior to the race. The stewards have direct radio contact with the veterinarians stationed at the starting gate. So why was our filly allowed to enter that starting gate?"

If you haven't read the entire article, you should...this is a good woman to come out and 'tell it like it is'...three cheers for her and her husband:ThmbUp: ...the article also has a link to a replay, and she wants folks to look at certain parts of the video...especially the part where LaT looks like her knees buckled...

Vietch should be brought up on some kind of charges for allowing this to happen...CD needs to be held responsible...and actually, IMO, so does Pletcher. This filly could have keeled over and died on the track...I mentioned her temperature, at the very least, should have been taken right there in the paddock...it was found to be over 103, with her white count off the charts...shame on all involved in this fiasco...shame:ThmbDown: :mad:

[Tom]

Well, I, for one will boycott CD. Dick Schmidt once remarked that it you thought the races were fixed, you were a fool to keep betting them.
I do not have any doubt that racing is not on the up and up in KY. Letting LAT to race was a robbery.

They an stick the Derby as well - it is nothing more than a joke anyways - look at the recent winners.......garbage.

And, as long as they keep the current announcer, it will be very easy to stay away!:lol:

Screw Kentucky!

[joanied]

I pretty much agree, Tom. CD is a for profit business...the shareholders are the main concern...I've read in the Bloodhorse magazine many times about CH buying this or that...spending money on stuff that dosn't even have anything to do with racing...all they care about is their bottom line.
They'll keep the Derby open to a 20 horse field, they don't give a $hit who wins the race...every horse in the gate is money in their pockets.

I'm with you, Tom... screw Kentucky!!

[andymays]

Statement on behalf of Candy DeBartolo owner of Life At Ten

The following statement was sent to the Paulick Report by David Vance on behalf of Candy DeBartolo:

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/statement-on-behalf-of-candy-debartolo-owner-of-life-at-ten/

[Greyfox]

Statement on behalf of Candy DeBartolo owner of Life At Ten

The following statement was sent to the Paulick Report by David Vance on behalf of Candy DeBartolo:

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/statement-on-behalf-of-candy-debartolo-owner-of-life-at-ten/

See post # 182.

[DJofSD]

Statement on behalf of Candy DeBartolo owner of Life At Ten

The following statement was sent to the Paulick Report by David Vance on behalf of Candy DeBartolo:

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/statement-on-behalf-of-candy-debartolo-owner-of-life-at-ten/
Oh my, they pocketed $60,000 in entry fees, too.

[andymays]

See post # 182.
My bad.

[RXB]

I would like to know what Candy DeBartolo said to her trainer, Mr. Pletcher, about putting the horse on the track in the first place.

For what it's worth, I have seen four horses in my life that I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt were physically incapable of getting around the racetrack. Only one got scratched. And interestingly enough, two of the others were strong favourites while the third that was allowed to run went off at 7/2. (None of the three finished the race. Two of them never ran again.)

[PaceAdvantage]

Don't need to tell me anything can happen anytime...that's a no brainer!!

Right...no one knows where Barbaro's injury occured...in the gate, or on the track...so, I guess we are both entitled to our opinion on the subject. My opinion is that it sure could have been in the gate.Actually, what you stated was "I think the conclusion is easily drawn." I simply offered up an alternate conclusion.

[Tom]

I would like to know what Candy DeBartolo said to her trainer, Mr. Pletcher, about putting the horse on the track in the first place.

For what it's worth, I have seen four horses in my life that I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt were physically incapable of getting around the racetrack. Only one got scratched. And interestingly enough, two of the others were strong favourites while the third that was allowed to run went off at 7/2. (None of the three finished the race. Two of them never ran again.)

John Veitch should be tested - if he believes that BS, he must be on drugs.
Wonder how much he sold his integrity for?

[WinterTriangle]

when the physical condition of the "athletes" involved cannot be accurately determined pre-race?

Apparently, it can't be determined post-race, either.

We can put men on the moon, but we can't accurately test racehorses for performance enhancing drugs. :rolleyes:

[JBmadera]

Apparently, it can't be determined post-race, either.

We can put men on the moon, but we can't accurately test racehorses for performance enhancing drugs. :rolleyes:

The issue is much bigger than just accurate testing.

-it is impossible to keep up with all the new PEDs
-the real science in this whole situation is in the masking agents

bottom line, as with ALL sports, PEDs aren't ever going.

[Pace Cap'n]

$60,000 entry fee---that says it all right there.

[DJofSD]

I wonder what LaT would have had to have shown the stewards before they would have scratched the horse?

[andymays]

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/Breeders-Cup-Diary/comments/11112010-integrity-left-at-the-post/#comments

Excerpt:

Further, it’s time for grass roots organizations such as the Horseplayers Association of North America and Thoro-Fan to stand up and demand a better explanation. They should poll membership and send the results to the industry leadership they deem appropriate. If the response they receive is inadequate, then they forward the results to the feds.

[Tom]

I think the KY SAG should be contacted and some kind of complaint filed.
A criminal investigation is totally in order here - CD STOLE that money from the bettors. Someone should be facing jail time here. The vet, jock, trainer, stewards - all should be be investigated for their role in this.


And where the HELL is PETA?

Oh, wait, the cameras are gone.

[FenceBored]

I think the KY SAG should be contacted and some kind of complaint filed.
A criminal investigation is totally in order here - CD STOLE that money from the bettors. Someone should be facing jail time here. The vet, jock, trainer, stewards - all should be be investigated for their role in this.


And where the HELL is PETA?

Oh, wait, the cameras are gone.

The AG, Jack "Did I just lose to Patrick Jane?" Conway (co-owner of Stately Victor), probably isn't going to consider it worth his office's resources, especially once the KHRC finishes slapping on the whitewash.

[PhantomOnTour]

This won't happen, but folks should stop betting CD and all CDI tracks and tell them why. That's what I'm doing.

[Tom]

I did that - sent them a e mail, hopefully someone there can read, and I also am ending my TS accounts and I told them why. I do not support race fixers and that is what CD is - race fixers. Bottom line. they might as well milk shake horses in the paddock. They are of the same low rent quality as those people.

[MNslappy]

http://eppcapp.ky.gov/khrchotline/


Kentucky Horse Racing Commission Integrity Hotline

Keeping Kentucky's Horse Industry Running!

The KHRC is committed to developing programs directly related to enhancing the integrity and safety of the Kentucky horse racing industry for both racehorses and industry participants.

In an effort to increase its awareness of matters negatively affecting the integrity of the sport and the business of Thoroughbred, Standardbred and Quarter Horse racing in Kentucky, and to improve its investigative capabilities, the KHRC has created a toll-free Integrity Hotline. Additionally, the KHRC has established online capabilities where suspicious activities can be confidentially e-mailed. Contact us whenever you become aware of any information, activity or improper practice that is not in the best interests of Kentucky horse racing.

When providing information to the KHRC, you may remain anonymous. However, we encourage you to provide contact information so that we may contact you to obtain additional detailed information, which will ensure the potential for a quick and accurate investigation.

Everyone involved in horse business in Kentucky has an obligation to protect and foster the integrity of horse racing in the state. So don't hesitate. If you are aware of improper activity, contact us today. You may call the toll-free integrity Hotline at 866-993-3949 or locally at 859-246-2848 or e-mail us at KHRC.Hotline@ky.gov (KHRC.Hotline@ky.gov).

[Grits]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/59880/owner-life-at-ten-should-have-been-scratched


In their letter, DeBartolo and Vance question why no post-race testing was conducted of Life At Ten, considering the filly's performance. The KHRC has said blood was drawn from Life At Ten, leading to the possibility of it being tested later, according to DeBartolo’s letter.

“There is an unpleasant reality here; the betting public was denied a fair shake and racing nurses an ugly black eye,” the letter continued. “We can’t fix the wrong but we can’t ignore it either. For that reason, we expect further action by the KHRC and we are equally hopeful that the Breeders Cup will address the issue as well.”

[Tom]

Gee, wouldn't this bunch of losers be helpful in a fire!
"Uh, maybe we should evacuate....it will be considered in the future.

Ky racing is beyond belief - they have zero integrity and zero credibility.
You want to fix racing's black eye - ban KY from holding race meets. Damn good place to start.:ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

[DJofSD]

I wonder if any one will remember the LaT debacle on the first Saturday in May?

[nijinski]

I see a new ban coming in Kentucky , a gag order of sorts .
No Jockey shall have in their possession any device that will enable them to
communicate with the media.

[Grits]

I see a new ban coming in Kentucky , a gag order of sorts .
No Jockey shall have in their possession any device that will enable them to
communicate with the media.

They really may want to rethink this decision, given thoroughbred racing takes the @$$ kicking that it continuously does. Talking with the jockeys is a definite plus, one that is no different from speaking with any other athlete or coach.

Had Kentucky not made fools of themselves--this little further ignorant move wouldn't make them look like bigger idiots than they did last Friday when they let Life At Ten enter the gate.

[Sly7449]

Life At Ten, Malibu Prayer and Quality Road.

They all ran in the last race of each day of the 2010 Breeders races.

They all failed to beat horses trained by other Trainers.

In the case of Malibu Prayer, this horse held the lead for 2 calls then faded to accompany its stable mate at the back of the pack.

Todd Pletched did O.K for those two days but just could not excel on the days Grand Finale. Two good Wins and one at low odds, also had some more in Place and Shows.

Also, both last races of the day were under the Lights. Maybe this could shed some light on the poor performances of all three horses.

[Stillriledup]

I didn't want to start another LAT thread, so i'll ask you all here. What would Ky have to do to 'make this LAT situation right' in your eyes? What would they have to do before you said, "i feel like Kentucky racing cares about the horseplayer".

[PhantomOnTour]

I didn't want to start another LAT thread, so i'll ask you all here. What would Ky have to do to 'make this LAT situation right' in your eyes? What would they have to do before you said, "i feel like Kentucky racing cares about the horseplayer".
Hand out a massive suspension (6 months at least...extend it thru the Ky Derby too) to Pletcher and also suspend all individuals (stewards/vets) who had the opportunity to scratch LAT. Heck, fire them.

[Stillriledup]

Hand out a massive suspension (6 months at least...extend it thru the Ky Derby too) to Pletcher and also suspend all individuals (stewards/vets) who had the opportunity to scratch LAT. Heck, fire them.

I'm with you. I think the jock needs 6 months for lack of effort. I'm not sure what you would suspend Pletcher for, unless you could say that he knew the horse was warming up poorly and could have found a way to contact the on track vet and scratch the horse. This is on the jock i believe, when that gate opens you have to ride to win. He wrapped up this horse and made no effort to win at any point, to me, that's a stiff job that deserves a long suspension.

[PhantomOnTour]

I'm with you. I think the jock needs 6 months for lack of effort. I'm not sure what you would suspend Pletcher for, unless you could say that he knew the horse was warming up poorly and could have found a way to contact the on track vet and scratch the horse. This is on the jock i believe, when that gate opens you have to ride to win. He wrapped up this horse and made no effort to win at any point, to me, that's a stiff job that deserves a long suspension.
You hop on a horse you know is not right physically and ride him as hard as you can and see what happens. Then you can blame the jock. It's a matter of safety for the jock imo...horse also.

[Stillriledup]

You hop on a horse you know is not right physically and ride him as hard as you can and see what happens. Then you can blame the jock. It's a matter of safety for the jock imo...horse also.

This is where the slippery slope comes in. We have to assume that if the jock takes the horse into the gate, no matter what he actually says to some outrider with a microphone, the horse is fit and ready to race and he's got to ride the hair of that horse from start to finish. Anything less than a hair off the hide ride, we have to assume that its lack of effort.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I'm with you...deserves a long suspension.

Aren't you the fellow that thought that sharp handicappers whom deduced before the start of race 7 that it would rain right after race 9 and that the jocks would refuse to ride the turf course at 10MTP should not be punished by having an off-the-turfer pay to the field in a surface switch late in the sequence? I thought you would be all for not punishing the smart pari-mutuel bettors that deduced that she had no shot, I mean that's easier than predicting weather and jock tendencies hours in advance... :D ... teasing...

Seriously, to answer your question, at a bare minimum I sure would have appreciated hearing John Veitch address the situation with the same seriousness that the customers are.

John Veitch isn't a total run-of-the-mill Larry, Curly, or Moe, he's a guy that with all of his years of experiences and knowledge, you would expect at least an iota of actual wisdom to have permeated his brain.

This is the type of guy that could be exactly right for a role like that, a man that has enough of a reputation that he wouldn't see himself as bigger than the game like so many in his position and instead be a leader.

I really thought that after a day of reflection and looking at the big picture, the context, the implications, the stain at large, that Mr. Veitch, who has always had my respect, would emerge exhibiting some humility, humbly accepting at least his faction's share of the responsibility.

Maybe that's expecting way too much from people that spend day in and day out behind a desk listening one to medication volator after another plead innocence in a strikingly similar manner.

No, we wouldn't a guy like John Veitch, someone who actually has the influence to lead, to set an example that desparately needs to be set. And of all people, he should know that.

I was in disbelief, then angry, now, just disappointed.

[Stillriledup]

Aren't you the fellow that thought that sharp handicappers whom deduced before the start of race 7 that it would rain right after race 9 and that the jocks would refuse to ride the turf course at 10MTP should not be punished by having an off-the-turfer pay to the field in a surface switch late in the sequence? I thought you would be all for not punishing the smart pari-mutuel bettors that deduced that she had no shot, I mean that's easier than predicting weather and jock tendencies hours in advance... :D ... teasing...

Seriously, to answer your question, at a bare minimum I sure would have appreciated hearing John Veitch address the situation with the same seriousness that the customers are.

John Veitch isn't a total run-of-the-mill Larry, Curly, or Moe, he's a guy that with all of his years of experiences and knowledge, you would expect at least an iota of actual wisdom to have permeated his brain.

This is the type of guy that could be exactly right for a role like that, a man that has enough of a reputation that he wouldn't see himself as bigger than the game like so many in his position and instead be a leader.

I really thought that after a day of reflection and looking at the big picture, the context, the implications, the stain at large, that Mr. Veitch, who has always had my respect, would emerge exhibiting some humility, humbly accepting at least his faction's share of the responsibility.

Maybe that's expecting way too much from people that spend day in and day out behind a desk listening one to medication volator after another plead innocence in a strikingly similar manner.

No, we wouldn't a guy like John Veitch, someone who actually has the influence to lead, to set an example that desparately needs to be set. And of all people, he should know that.

I was in disbelief, then angry, now, just disappointed.


If you let the horse run, you have to fine the jock for not trying. I mean, you can't technically suspend/fine him for failing to scratch an ill horse, but you can suspend/fine him for lack of effort.

[Tom]

I wonder if any one will remember the LaT debacle on the first Saturday in May?

I will remember not only that one, but the total jokes the last few Derbies were. I no long give the Derby at CD and credibility other than a chance for a huge score on illogical horses. The Derby has ceased to be of any interest to me. Anything CD related is now dead to me. And thanks to that miserable excuse of a track announcer, ignoring all things CD is very very easy.

Bring on the new triple crown - Preakness - Haskell - Travers.:cool:

[Tom]

Hand out a massive suspension (6 months at least...extend it thru the Ky Derby too) to Pletcher and also suspend all individuals (stewards/vets) who had the opportunity to scratch LAT. Heck, fire them.

Dittos. Pletcher should be fined the exact amount of all the pools bet on LAT for that race. WPS, exotics, all the money.

[Sly7449]

With all this hype over one horse, I decided to take a look at the charts.

Yes, I know the focus is basically based on the jockey's inside info combined with the poor performance of the horse in question but I look at the overall picture for horse racing period.

LAT was the second choice in the betting so that indicates the it was Not the best for bettors.

Strange enough, the Fav was only ahead of one horse thru the half. I wonder what was the Inside Info on Blind Luck which was allowed to capture the second spot. I do not see this horse getting any flax for allowing the 4th choice to finish ahead.

Did the 5th choice have a really good warm-up and yet held the lead thur the half?

How often does Body Language equate to actual Form? Will Body Language DVD's and Books surge to the top of the Best Sellers List for 2010?

I can just vision a Body Language survey on the horizon or will I get e-mails from Amazon.

So we have an excuse for the 2nd Fav, what is the excuse for the Fav, and while we at it, what excuse is there for the 3rd choice?

Sounds like everyday handicapping but just something for folks to gang up on.

What is there to learn from this one race? Should we suspend all transactions until we get a clear answer? One that satisfies everyone?

Gentlemen, Hold Your Wagers.

[Greyfox]

So we have an excuse for the 2nd Fav, what is the excuse for the Fav, and while we at it, what excuse is there for the 3rd choice?

.

Sly we all know that horses vary from day to day.
Any horse can lose a race on any given day.
We don't need to make excuses for the other horses.

The point here is that Life at Ten was blatantly unfit to race.
That seems to have been apparent to millions of observers except for the people in charge of gate scratches.

[Sly7449]

http://www.google.com/search?q=throughbred+horses+body+language&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLL_en#hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7GGLL_en&&sa=X&ei=O9jeTOT_FoK0lQep2uGYAw&ved=0CCMQvwUoAQ&q=thoroughbred+horses+body+language&spell=1&fp=cadc6625497da7fb


"
In addition, Quinn says there are occasions when a dull-looking horse could wake up when placed in the starting gate".

If such is the case, when do you scratch em?

[Sly7449]

In Quinn's summary, he suggests a broad, overview of racehorse appearance for the

recreational handicapper is suitable.



"If contenders look washy and fractious, and the odds are low, prefer other

contenders. If horses look sharp, and the race is otherwise indecipherable, the

odds extremely generous, take a chance on readiness."



So, enjoy your day at the racetrack and take some time to view the beauty of the

thoroughbred racehorse. Just be sure you are satisfied with the appearance of your

runner before you head to the windows.



Canadian Thoroughbred 1999 Queen’s Plate Souvenir Issue

[Greyfox]

Just be sure you are satisfied with the appearance of your

runner before you head to the windows.





:sleeping:
I think most of us know all of what you are directing us to on body language.
We've been around the block a few times before.
But if a player bets early and goes home to watch the races on TV, it is not possible to see the Post Parade. Further, it is not possible at all in horizontal exotics, except in the first leg.
The point is Life at Ten was in a stupor before going in the gate.
Those of us who used it in horizontal bets earlier were royally screwed.
Those of us who made flat bets on her were screwed.

[Tom]

In Quinn's summary, he suggests a broad, overview of racehorse appearance for the

recreational handicapper is suitable.

Which you cannot do in multi-race bets. Quinn is dated any much of his stuff.

[GatetoWire]

With all this hype over one horse, I decided to take a look at the charts.

Yes, I know the focus is basically based on the jockey's inside info combined with the poor performance of the horse in question but I look at the overall picture for horse racing period.

LAT was the second choice in the betting so that indicates the it was Not the best for bettors.

Strange enough, the Fav was only ahead of one horse thru the half. I wonder what was the Inside Info on Blind Luck which was allowed to capture the second spot. I do not see this horse getting any flax for allowing the 4th choice to finish ahead.

Did the 5th choice have a really good warm-up and yet held the lead thur the half?

How often does Body Language equate to actual Form? Will Body Language DVD's and Books surge to the top of the Best Sellers List for 2010?

I can just vision a Body Language survey on the horizon or will I get e-mails from Amazon.

So we have an excuse for the 2nd Fav, what is the excuse for the Fav, and while we at it, what excuse is there for the 3rd choice?

Sounds like everyday handicapping but just something for folks to gang up on.

What is there to learn from this one race? Should we suspend all transactions until we get a clear answer? One that satisfies everyone?

Gentlemen, Hold Your Wagers.


Sly: We all have bet on horses who have preformed poorly and in some of those cases we learned later that the horse turned up sick, bled or had some other issue.

We have all also become accustomed to the daily gate scratches that happen at every track across America.

Why this is different is that both the Jockey and the Trainer told a national TV audience that this horse was not acting "right" before the race.....yet they did not bother to tell the on track vets or the stewards....they let her get in the gate as one of the favorites with about $300K bet on her.
She ran about 2 feet before going into a cantor.

We all know that she should have been scratched and the reason that this thread won't die is that we don't ever want to see this happen again.

I luckily got to cancel my ADW wager on LAT but many others got the shaft from everyone involved by letting her run.

This is not just handicapping it is a Jockey and a Trainer not looking out for their horse and the public at large.

Hopefully they will get a large fine and we will never see something like this again.

[Stillriledup]

Sly: We all have bet on horses who have preformed poorly and in some of those cases we learned later that the horse turned up sick, bled or had some other issue.

We have all also become accustomed to the daily gate scratches that happen at every track across America.

Why this is different is that both the Jockey and the Trainer told a national TV audience that this horse was not acting "right" before the race.....yet they did not bother to tell the on track vets or the stewards....they let her get in the gate as one of the favorites with about $300K bet on her.
She ran about 2 feet before going into a cantor.

We all know that she should have been scratched and the reason that this thread won't die is that we don't ever want to see this happen again.

I luckily got to cancel my ADW wager on LAT but many others got the shaft from everyone involved by letting her run.

This is not just handicapping it is a Jockey and a Trainer not looking out for their horse and the public at large.

Hopefully they will get a large fine and we will never see something like this again.

Responding to your last sentence. Unfortunately, we will see this again because nobody is getting any fines or suspensions. Its business as usual. There will be a small outrage on the internet from a few passionate racing fans and that's it, it will die away just like the Burna Dette incident outrage died away. Everything dies away and no one ever gets punished, this is just the way horse racing in America works.

[GARY Z]

The ming boggling aspect of this situation is the # of postings
in the past week on this forum and the length of time it has taken for the
Owners to release their statement.

[Tom]

If they wanted to make areal statement they would have fired the trainer and jock. All the did was issue a CYA.

you think they really give a hoot about everyone who got screwed by their POS outfit? :D

[Linny]

I'm with you. I think the jock needs 6 months for lack of effort. I'm not sure what you would suspend Pletcher for, unless you could say that he knew the horse was warming up poorly and could have found a way to contact the on track vet and scratch the horse. This is on the jock i believe, when that gate opens you have to ride to win. He wrapped up this horse and made no effort to win at any point, to me, that's a stiff job that deserves a long suspension.


While I agree that JV should have been more interested in telling the vets and stewards about his concerns, I disagree on lack of effort in the race. No about of riding LaT was going to get her to finish better than she did. The mare had nothing, she was sick.

Think about the last time you came down with a fever, maybe chills and aches. How likely were you to be able to perform at even close to your athletic peak? All the coaching and personal trainers and encouragement wouldn't be able to make your body do something it couldn't, at that moment.

[Sly7449]

:sleeping:
I think most of us know all of what you are directing us to on body language.
We've been around the block a few times before.
But if a player bets early and goes home to watch the races on TV, it is not possible to see the Post Parade. Further, it is not possible at all in horizontal exotics, except in the first leg.
The point is Life at Ten was in a stupor before going in the gate.
Those of us who used it in horizontal bets earlier were royally screwed.
Those of us who made flat bets on her were screwed.

Grey,

In the case of Horizontal Bets and LAT, if there was indeed a Gate Scratch of LAT, such would have made lots of folks happy but would that mean you get a refund or the bet goes on the Fav?

Well, the Fav finished second which equates to the same loss unless one will say that the race would have ran differently even though the Fav was running second to last thru the half anyway.

Sad case for Vertical Bettors, Horizontal Bettors just got to chew on it.


L8R

[Tom]

HB bettors know the risk going in.

[DJofSD]

Any one know if LaT has had a public workout since the failed start?

[FenceBored]

Any one know if LaT has had a public workout since the failed start?

It doesn't appear so. As of when I post this, Equibase lists her last workout as:
10/30/10 CD 4f 48.20 (5/36)

[Greyfox]

Grey,

In the case of Horizontal Bets and LAT, if there was indeed a Gate Scratch of LAT, such would have made lots of folks happy but would that mean you get a refund or the bet goes on the Fav?



Sly, You're still not quite getting it.
What you say is true re: horizontal wagers. That's a risk we take.
But many of us also made heavy flat win, place, and vertical exotic wagers earlier in the day and went home and watched the Breeders' Cup on TV.
We trusted that the Vets and Stewards would do their job when the race came up.
Had they been doing it I would received refunds on my flat bet wagers.
Candy DeBartolo the owner would have received her sixty thousand dollar entry fee back. We trust those in charge to do the proper inspections.
When those inspections are not done our trust is violated.

[cj's dad]

Candy DeBartolo should file a law suit against all parties involved, included CD, Pletcher, Smith, stewards and vet.

I would also think that ANY player in Kentucky with a losing ticket on L@T could file same.

[FenceBored]

Candy DeBartolo should file a law suit against all parties involved, included CD, Pletcher, Smith, stewards and vet.

I would also think that ANY player in Kentucky with a losing ticket on L@T could file same.

Hmm, shades of JerryJam's suit against Del Mar and a particular steward for running his horse over his objection?

[depalma113]

Candy DeBartolo should file a law suit against all parties involved, included CD, Pletcher, Smith, stewards and vet.

I would also think that ANY player in Kentucky with a losing ticket on L@T could file same.

Why only in Kentucky? Anyone holding a ticket anywhere, should be entitled to join that lawsuit.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... Anyone holding a ticket anywhere, should be entitled to join that lawsuit.

And with those words, horse racing's slow, tedious demise was rocketed into overdrive.

[nijinski]

They really may want to rethink this decision, given thoroughbred racing takes the @$$ kicking that it continuously does. Talking with the jockeys is a definite plus, one that is no different from speaking with any other athlete or coach.

Had Kentucky not made fools of themselves--this little further ignorant move wouldn't make them look like bigger idiots than they did last Friday when they let Life At Ten enter the gate.

It was a comment made by Mr Veitch that prompted my response and I
wasn't being serious , though I bet he was.

[cj's dad]

Why only in Kentucky? Anyone holding a ticket anywhere, should be entitled to join that lawsuit.

Agreed - get it on !!

[DJofSD]

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/wgoh/archive/2010/11/23/two-questions-regarding-life-at-ten.aspx

[Tom]

Veitch said the ongoing investigation will be thorough but could not give an estimate of when results might be presented to the racing commission or how they might be presented.

Translate - we need a bigger rug.

Maybe the investigation will turn up the whereabouts of of Veitch's integrity.:ThmbDown:

[tucker6]

Maybe the investigation will turn up the whereabouts of of Veitch's integrity.:ThmbDown:That's a mighty big assumption you're making.

[Stillriledup]

Why only in Kentucky? Anyone holding a ticket anywhere, should be entitled to join that lawsuit.


The greatest thing ever would be if someone filed a class action lawsuit and WON. That would make racetracks say "we cant F**K the bettors any longer, we have to do the right thing"

[GARY Z]

Per the 11/10 issue of Bloohorse,neither the trainer or jockey
notified the State vet regarding concerns over LAT prior to
the race.

"THE PROTOCOL IS FOR VET TO BE NOTIFIED ,AND THAT HE/SHE
WILL IN TURN NOTIFY THE STEWARDS.SHOULD A TRAINER OR JOCKEY
HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT WHETHER A HORSEIS FIT TO RACE THEY
KNOWN THE PROTOCOL IS TO NOTIFY A KHRC VET,WHO IN TURN WILL TALK TO THE JOCKEY AND OBSERVE THE HORSE AND MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE STEWARDS REGARDING ANY SCRATCH".

There are a couple of typos, sorry I have to run.I originally posted
as did others, the interview between JV and JD, and that John or Pletcher could/should have followed the steps above to protect the life of LAT
and the owners.

Had this horse suffered a serious injury, or death, it would be another
major blow to racing, ESPECIALLY when these JV noted his conerns
several times walking to post.

The other issue is why the #@$%% KY isn't coming out with a statement
regarding this deplorable act??????????

:mad: :mad:

[thaskalos]

That's a mighty big assumption you're making.
Here is John Veitch's statement when he was appointed Chief Steward in Kentucky:

"I have always held the stewards in great esteem. I've always felt that they were an integral part of the integrity of the sport. It's nice to be in a position to be a part of that integrity."

Integrity does not mean sweeping this serious incident under the rug by suggesting that the stewards were NEVER made aware of Life At Ten's condition before the start of the race.

Of course they were made aware of it...they were alerted by the TV producers who heard Johnny V's comments as the horse was warming up...and yet nothing at all was done about it.

And what was Veitch's reaction to all this?

Instead of acknowledging the stewards' gross negligence, he suggested a "gag" order, prohibiting jockeys from talking to TV reporters before the start of the race...as his way of making sure that this sort of thing never happens again.

IMO, not only does this bring Veitch's integrity into question...it also casts doubt on his ability to do his job.

When you are in a position of trust, your integrity is either 100%...or it's zero!

[DJofSD]

Is that tantamount to being a little bit pregnant?

[Tom]

IMO, not only does this bring Veitch's integrity into question...it also casts doubt on his ability to do his job.

1. No is doesn't - he obviously has none.
2. No doubt about it - he is incompetent. My only wonder is how much did he have bet on the race? I smell a rat.

A gag order?????

Is there any track more deserving of a boycott than this minor league disgrace?

[Jasonm921]

I havent seen this mentioned anywhere...did any reporter ask where Life at Ten's stall was in relation to Devil May Care? Devil May Care had Hepatitis and it was well chronicled and witnessed at least two times with my own eyes that they were work partners in the morning during the fall meet. It may be a stretch and I'm not a vet but I would think that it is odd that only one horse came down with Hepatitis or was exposed to it.

[DJofSD]

Turkey of the Year: (http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/11/25/2658875/of-all-the-horse-racing-turkeys.html) Veitch.

Where's the chopping block?

[DJofSD]

An update, of sorts: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/60333/life-at-ten-investigation-continuing?source=rss

[nijinski]

I havent seen this mentioned anywhere...did any reporter ask where Life at Ten's stall was in relation to Devil May Care? Devil May Care had Hepatitis and it was well chronicled and witnessed at least two times with my own eyes that they were work partners in the morning during the fall meet. It may be a stretch and I'm not a vet but I would think that it is odd that only one horse came down with Hepatitis or was exposed to it.
Having hepatitis is not necessarily only Viral such as A,B and C .The term itself is
also used when the liver function studies in the blood are are elevated ,
which can happen from other underlying causes that are not contagious .
I didn't hear about DMC having a liver ailment , hope she is doing well.