Lebron Who?

[bigmack]

So I bump into this spot and I says to myself, I says...

Should you be who I want you to be?

Who again are you?

It worked with Jordan. This is a joke & this guy looks like a fool.

cdtejCR413c

[OTM Al]

So I bump into this spot and I says to myself, I says...

Should you be who I want you to be?

Who again are you?

It worked with Jordan. This is a joke & this guy looks like a fool.


I disagree. Think its a great spot. Perhaps you don't get it because you're smart enough not to be a slave to a sports team. But many of those people are spewing all kinds of hate on this guy for the crime of.....wait for it.....changing teams when he was a free agent and taking less money than he could have got if he stayed where he was. Many will then say it's not really that, it was that special ESPN aired when he announced this. You know, the spot he used to earn millions of dollars for kids' charities.

But now this guy is seen as evil. Funny thing is, from what I read and hear about the guy, he may be one of the more decent, well grounded people in all of sport. And one of the most talented. Green-eyed jealousy raising it's ugly head....

[Wiley]

Pathetic. 'What should I do?'.......How about shutting up and just playing basketball. Wait a minute, let's fuel the drama and exploit this situation for more dough by highlighting it in a Nike ad. Fact of life, not everyone is going to love you, live by your decision and quit whining about it and using it to make some more money.

Team's get over players leaving, even players with the sky high self-importance level of James. He helped build his image so live with it.

[Valuist]

Nice effort opening night by Lebron and his buddy D-Wade. 9 points in the first quarter and 30 for the first half. The Celtics dominated them in a game not as close as the final score indicated.

[OTM Al]

Nice effort opening night by Lebron and his buddy D-Wade. 9 points in the first quarter and 30 for the first half. The Celtics dominated them in a game not as close as the final score indicated.

Actually LeBron had a pretty good game. When broken down the team was +1 while he was in the game over the Celtics. This was offset by the team being -16 or so with Bosch and with Wade. Boston also happens to be a pretty good team last I checked.

Sports Illustrated proclaimed him the Chosen One on its cover when he was still in high school. Of course this is now his fault. And think what you will about the ad. Nile's marketing department is brilliant. You might not like the ad, you might not agree with it, but you are talking about it. That's a win.

[Wiley]

You might not like the ad, you might not agree with it, but you are talking about it. That's a win.
I agree, no doubt the point of the ad. I just find this whole issue tiresome and here will be the only place that I make a comment on it. For me, it leaves a negative image of the product. I still play hoop and run but don't think I have ever owned a pair of Nike's for either and these types of ads will continue to keep me away.

[JustRalph]

Al, I think you are wrong about why he is now hated. It wasn't that he changed teams, it was that he built a whole show around it, EsPN cooperated with it and he basically rubbed it in the face of Cleveland. He could have had a ten minute presser and not turned many many fans against him. It was pure arrogance.

I can't blame anybody for wanting to escape Cleveland. But if you are going to give them the finger on the way out of town........do it out your car window and not in Prime Time TV

[cj]

Al, I think you are wrong about why he is now hated. It wasn't that he changed teams, it was that he built a whole show around it, EsPN cooperated with it and he basically rubbed it in the face of Cleveland. He could have had a ten minute presser and not turned many many fans against him. It was pure arrogance.

I can't blame anybody for wanting to escape Cleveland. But if you are going to give them the finger on the way out of town........do it out your car window and not in Prime Time TV

The whole "raised money for kids" is a crutch. He could have just as easily written a check. Does a guy that rich really need others to pay for him to raise money for kids?

[mostpost]

So the mighty Heat lost their first game and the Chicago Bulls lost their first game. Therefore we can conclude that the Bulls are as good as the Heat. Right??

[OTM Al]

Al, I think you are wrong about why he is now hated. It wasn't that he changed teams, it was that he built a whole show around it, EsPN cooperated with it and he basically rubbed it in the face of Cleveland. He could have had a ten minute presser and not turned many many fans against him. It was pure arrogance.

I can't blame anybody for wanting to escape Cleveland. But if you are going to give them the finger on the way out of town........do it out your car window and not in Prime Time TV

I think it was great TV. It must have been given how many people tuned in. Let's compare him to a media hog who I actually do think is a jerk. How much TV time did Brett Favre get the last couple years? Where's the hate for this guy if that's really what it was? Didn't he rub it in Green Bay's face essentially wanting and eventually going to their biggest rival? But he's still the great gunslinger out there having fun slinging the ball around. Maybe it's because it's basketball and the image the NBA seems to have of thuggery, though if you want to know the truth the great NFL has more rap sheets per capita than any other sport. I don't like the NBA but I'm going to cheer for LeBron to succeed now.

[cj]

I think it was great TV. It must have been given how many people tuned in. Let's compare him to a media hog who I actually do think is a jerk. How much TV time did Brett Favre get the last couple years? Where's the hate for this guy if that's really what it was? Didn't he rub it in Green Bay's face essentially wanting and eventually going to their biggest rival? But he's still the great gunslinger out there having fun slinging the ball around. Maybe it's because it's basketball and the image the NBA seems to have of thuggery, though if you want to know the truth the great NFL has more rap sheets per capita than any other sport. I don't like the NBA but I'm going to cheer for LeBron to succeed now.

I think you underestimate how many people have turned on Favre since his first retirement.

[Bettowin]

If you want to root for a good, midwestern kid that is going to make an impact his name is Blake Griffin:)

[cj]

If you want to root for a good, midwestern kid that is going to make an impact his name is Blake Griffin:)

He is a good kid, as is Kevin Durant. There are plenty around to support.

[OTM Al]

I think you underestimate how many people have turned on Favre since his first retirement.

Not with this level of vitriol. Let's face it, some of the bodies that fill the laundry that people root for every Sunday have commited reprehensible acts, and no one cares.

LeBron also happens to be one of those pretty good kids, just happens to be a lot richer than the ones you mention at this point. The stuff about his mom and what he's had to do to take care of her since he was a little kid shows me a lot about him. Even more so the fact that he's made sure that she's left alone by the press.

[bigmack]

Nike signed James while he was still in high school. $90Mil for 7 years.

This ad is damage control at its worst while shoveling a self-involved vibe. I don't give a shoop where he plays, but doesn't this smack of a freaked out sponsor and an athlete responding like it's earth shattering material. This ain't a Tylenol scare.

In my world, Schmoes taking themselves WAY too seriously end up looking like chumps.

[cj]

Not with this level of vitriol. Let's face it, some of the bodies that fill the laundry that people root for every Sunday have commited reprehensible acts, and no one cares.

LeBron also happens to be one of those pretty good kids, just happens to be a lot richer than the ones you mention at this point. The stuff about his mom and what he's had to do to take care of her since he was a little kid shows me a lot about him. Even more so the fact that he's made sure that she's left alone by the press.

Lebron is a decent guy, but he does have some baggage the others don't. I really don't want to get into those but I'm sure many are aware and they can be found.

I personally don't hate Lebron, but I want the Heat to lose, just like I want the Yankees to lose and any other team that tries to win with mostly money. I also think what he did sets a bad precedent and will damage small market teams if the rules aren't changed. Since I'm a fan of a small market team, 3rd smallest, I would like to see that changed. There is a very good possibility there will be a franchise tag in the NBA when the next agreement is hammered out.

[OTM Al]

Lebron is a decent guy, but he does have some baggage the others don't. I really don't want to get into those but I'm sure many are aware and they can be found.

I personally don't hate Lebron, but I want the Heat to lose, just like I want the Yankees to lose and any other team that tries to win with mostly money. I also think what he did sets a bad precedent and will damage small market teams if the rules aren't changed. Since I'm a fan of a small market team, 3rd smallest, I would like to see that changed. There is a very good possibility there will be a franchise tag in the NBA when the next agreement is hammered out.

In a salary cap league, how can you cite a winning by money philosophy? In fact the Heat could not pay LeBron as much as Cleveland could have. The big market-small market argument is overrated as well. Most of the small market teams in baseball make more money than their big market rivals. They could get better if they wanted, but they don't. And that team you cheer for chose to move there, so clearly they figured they could make even more money than in a city like Seattle, which is at least twice as big as Ok. City. San Antonio isn't exactly huge, yet they did just fine not so long ago. The Knicks are big market and they stink and have never been as good as their fans seem to think.

I heard talk of that franchise tag as well. Absolute garbage. NBA is in trouble and it is the fault of the owners and yet all blame and burden is being shifted to the player.

Spend your energy enjoying your own team. They aren't too bad and from what I'm to understand, outside the Lakers the West isn't so great anymore, so they have a real shot to go far.

[magwell]

No problem when Lakers and Boston reloaded but Heat does it now that's a problem, very funny.. GO HEAT..:)

[Valuist]

In a salary cap league, how can you cite a winning by money philosophy? In fact the Heat could not pay LeBron as much as Cleveland could have. The big market-small market argument is overrated as well. Most of the small market teams in baseball make more money than their big market rivals. They could get better if they wanted, but they don't. And that team you cheer for chose to move there, so clearly they figured they could make even more money than in a city like Seattle, which is at least twice as big as Ok. City. San Antonio isn't exactly huge, yet they did just fine not so long ago. The Knicks are big market and they stink and have never been as good as their fans seem to think.

I heard talk of that franchise tag as well. Absolute garbage. NBA is in trouble and it is the fault of the owners and yet all blame and burden is being shifted to the player.

Spend your energy enjoying your own team. They aren't too bad and from what I'm to understand, outside the Lakers the West isn't so great anymore, so they have a real shot to go far.

How do MLB teams like Pittsburgh and KC make more money than their big city counterparts? So their payroll is less......their ticket sales are decidedly less, less parking, concessions etc and far less earned in TV broadcast rights.

[cj]

In a salary cap league, how can you cite a winning by money philosophy? In fact the Heat could not pay LeBron as much as Cleveland could have. The big market-small market argument is overrated as well. Most of the small market teams in baseball make more money than their big market rivals. They could get better if they wanted, but they don't. And that team you cheer for chose to move there, so clearly they figured they could make even more money than in a city like Seattle, which is at least twice as big as Ok. City. San Antonio isn't exactly huge, yet they did just fine not so long ago. The Knicks are big market and they stink and have never been as good as their fans seem to think.

I heard talk of that franchise tag as well. Absolute garbage. NBA is in trouble and it is the fault of the owners and yet all blame and burden is being shifted to the player.

Spend your energy enjoying your own team. They aren't too bad and from what I'm to understand, outside the Lakers the West isn't so great anymore, so they have a real shot to go far.

It is not a hard cap. Huge difference.

Any league that signed Darko Milicic for $20 million can put a lot of the blame on themselves, no doubt about it. But, what is wrong with a franchise tag? The whole idea of free agency was to maximize salaries for players...franchise players get the max. Players cry about collusion amongst owners, this was clear collusion amongst players, and it is going to continue if something isn't changed. Chris Paul, Carmello Anthony, etc.

[OTM Al]

It is not a hard cap. Huge difference.

Any league that signed Darko Milicic for $20 million can put a lot of the blame on themselves, no doubt about it. But, what is wrong with a franchise tag? The whole idea of free agency was to maximize salaries for players...franchise players get the max. Players cry about collusion amongst owners, this was clear collusion amongst players, and it is going to continue if something isn't changed. Chris Paul, Carmello Anthony, etc.

Still a cap and it limits the signing of free agents and thus player salaries and anything that does that is making salaries artificially low. A player is an employee and as such should be able to sell his services to whoever is most willing to pay. The funny thing is that long term contracts and limits on free agency actually drive up the prices on players by creating an artifically low supply. Franchise tags are rubish because they circumvent the terms of free agency. Owners use them to block players who want to go rather than using it to reward their best players. It is universally hated by NFL players.

Players cannot collude under the labor definition of that term. Otherwise a union would not be legal. They cannot affect how much employees, themselves, get paid because that power is not in their hands. Owner collusion can do this.

The owners bought this one and yet most people are fully in support of bailing them out at the expense of their workers.

[cj]

Still a cap and it limits the signing of free agents and thus player salaries and anything that does that is making salaries artificially low. A player is an employee and as such should be able to sell his services to whoever is most willing to pay. The funny thing is that long term contracts and limits on free agency actually drive up the prices on players by creating an artifically low supply. Franchise tags are rubish because they circumvent the terms of free agency. Owners use them to block players who want to go rather than using it to reward their best players. It is universally hated by NFL players.

Players cannot collude under the labor definition of that term. Otherwise a union would not be legal. They cannot affect how much employees, themselves, get paid because that power is not in their hands. Owner collusion can do this.

The owners bought this one and yet most people are fully in support of bailing them out at the expense of their workers.

We'll have to just disagree on this one. If the precedent is set that small market teams cannot keep their players, even if they can pay more money, the league will fall apart. Lets be honest here, does it really matter if a superstar makes $20 mil per or $16 mil? Obviously, for many, it does not, because there are other considerations including different tax situations and more marketing dollars.

Personally, I don't think the Heat will win it all anytime soon. Bosh is overrated, though good, and Wade and James are close to the same player.

[OTM Al]

Nothing wrong with that, though the dollars do matter and always have. It's how these guys keep score. Very few players have ever wanted to stay in the small markets regardless. Let's face it, Kansas City may be able to compete against New York as long as the New York team really wants to win, for brief periods, but never for long no matter what is done. Just the way it is.

Can't really say about Miami winning or not. From what I understand the eastern teams are very strong this year so even if it was the great Bulls team it would have trouble winning this year. I've got to say I've heard so many say that about LeBron and Wade that it makes me have to be contrarian to that view. They need some creative coaching and the will to adapt. They do that and they will be awfully good.

[mountainman]

To a large extent, the commercial strikes me as bipolar. At first James seems apologetic, a few images later somewhat defiant. And his presence likewise transforms from dark and reflective to a shallow agent of pop-culture. If anything resonates, it's not the confusing (if artful) imagery, but instead the mantra: "Should I be who you want me to be?" In those words, there is no ambiguity. And they are a statement, not a question. Like it or lump it, LeBron-or whoever wrote the spot- is clearly telling us that he doesn't share the values and principles which we deem him to have violated. The ad breaks ground in that regard.
Barkley, in a sense, stated that he's nobodie's hero. James takes it much further in actually depicting himself, complete with gunfighter's garb, as an anti-hero. This is a young, famous, potential billionaire unabashedly strutting his self-absorption, but on a deeper level, strongly implying that our concepts of class, sportsmanship and character are irrelevant to him. At least that's my take.

[Hank]

This thread proves the spot effective.

[bigmack]

This thread proves the spot effective.
Oh no you d'int.

Advertising doesn't work simply by it being talked about 'round the WataCoola.

Nike pays to produce & air the spot. For what I ask?

[Valuist]

Boston seems to have their number. The Celtics have taken them down twice; the Heat now a very mortal 5-4. The only worry to Jordan and the Bulls' season record is from LA, not Miami.

[highnote]

LaBron was already a superstar and he could have used is status to do great things for Ohio. Instead, he was selfish and did things for himself.

I grew up in Ohio and I know how Ohio treasures its heroes. Paul Brown and Jim Brown of the Cleveland Browns are legends. Bernie Kosar is still loved by Cleveland fans.

Cleveland loves their Browns so much they wouldn't let Modell take the franchise to Baltimore.

Cleveland felt so strongly about the roots of Rock and Roll in Cleveland that they successfully lobbied to get the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland.

I was living there during the time of their lobbying efforts. It was an amazing show of community.

Then along comes LaBron. The biggest thing to happen in Ohio in decades. He gave Ohioans immeasurable pleasure. Andthen he sold out. That's his right. I think that someday he will look back and see what a huge opportunity he missed right in his own back yard.

The grass is always greener. No fans will ever love him more than Clevaland's fans would have. Now they think he is a schmuck. He probably doesn't care and that's a good thing because it makes it easier for Cleveland fans to see him leave.

Maybe none of this matters to him and maybe it's irrelevant in the big picture. But if you're from Northeastern Ohio and fan of Cleveland sports it does matter. People who are not from there may not understand. I suppose it's a little like the Dodgers leaving Brooklyn. If you were never a Dodgers fan then you might not understand what it is like to lose a piece of your heart. Cleveland knows what it's like and that's why they wouldn't let go of the Browns.

Unfortunately, they had no choice over LaBron and they were left feeling like the Brooklyn Dodgers fans.

[cj's dad]

Umm didn't the original Browns play last night in Atlanta ?

The ONLY reason there is a "Browns" in the NFL again is because Art Modell was decent enough to let them keep the name and colors; unlike a shmuck like Irsay.

[highnote]

Umm didn't the original Browns play last night in Atlanta ?

Modell's team, the Ravens, played last night in Atlanta. I wouldn't call them the original Browns. The original Browns probably ceased to exist when Paul Brown started the Cincinnati Bengals. Same ugly colors. LOL

The ONLY reason there is a "Browns" in the NFL again is because Art Modell was decent enough to let them keep the name and colors; unlike a shmuck like Irsay.

That's not the way I remember it happening. I remember Cleveland threatening to sue if the Browns name did not stay in Cleveland.

The Browns were the AAFC's most successful franchise, and were one of only three teams to join the NFL following the merger. In 1995, after nearly 50 years in Cleveland, then owner Art Modell announced his intention to move the team to Baltimore, Maryland, initiating a relocation controversy that led to legal action.

I always found it ironic that Modell is from NY, moved to Cleveland and bought a team. Whereas, Steinbrenner was from Cleveland, moved to NY and bought a team.

If Championship rings are the measure of of successful ownership then, of the two owners, Steinbrenner is certainly the more successful!

It's tough to develop championship teams in Cleveland. Men like Paul Brown only come around once in a lifetime. LeBron and Modell are no Paul Browns, so for everyone involved, it's probably better that they left the state.

[cj's dad]

Going of topic here but when it was announced that the Browns were coming to Baltimore it truly was not well received here. The only satisfaction was that it pissed off Paul Tagliabue. He was the one who was quoted as saying after Baltimore was passed over for Carlina and Jacksonville for expansion franchises, "let them build a museum".

But honestly, most of us here remembered all too well how much it hurt when the Colts left and how painful it was when that rotten bastard Bob Irsay kept the name and colors.

There was a very strong voice on local call in sports shows to create a new name and colors. I'm so glad we did, and I'm also very happy for the Browns fans. They like us did nothing to deserve the loss of their beloved teams.

One of the most gratifying moments of my sports watching days was when PT had to present the SB trophy to a smiling Art Modell.

[Valuist]

Re: Lebron, I just heard his explanation for the Heat's slow start:

"The coach is playing them (him and Wade) too much."

OK, I guess that explains their combined 0 for 10 from beyond the arc :rolleyes:

[highnote]

I forgot about the Colts moving! That was a huge tradegy. I grew up as a major Johnny Unitas fan and read football books about Y.A. Tittle. It was awful the way Unitas was treated at the end of his career. And then to move the team to Indy and keep the name and colors! Sacrilegous!

I don't blame Baltimore fans for being angry!! The legislature passed a law where they could seize the Colts by eminent domain!

I had forgotten all about Irsay's drunken rant on TV in January of '84 about the Colts where he said ... "This is my goddamn team!" Then in March he moved to Indy.

Going of topic here but when it was announced that the Browns were coming to Baltimore it truly was not well received here. The only satisfaction was that it pissed off Paul Tagliabue. He was the one who was quoted as saying after Baltimore was passed over for Carlina and Jacksonville for expansion franchises, "let them build a museum".

But honestly, most of us here remembered all too well how much it hurt when the Colts left and how painful it was when that rotten bastard Bob Irsay kept the name and colors.

There was a very strong voice on local call in sports shows to create a new name and colors. I'm so glad we did, and I'm also very happy for the Browns fans. They like us did nothing to deserve the loss of their beloved teams.

One of the most gratifying moments of my sports watching days was when PT had to present the SB trophy to a smiling Art Modell.

[Valuist]

Just heard a funny nickname for the Heat:

Two and a half Men

[cj's dad]

If you are a Browns fan - you got screwed a bit less than we did = both of us did however end up OK

[sandpit]

I forgot about the Colts moving! That was a huge tradegy. I grew up as a major Johnny Unitas fan and read football books about Y.A. Tittle. It was awful the way Unitas was treated at the end of his career. And then to move the team to Indy and keep the name and colors! Sacrilegous!

I don't blame Baltimore fans for being angry!! The legislature passed a law where they could seize the Colts by eminent domain!

I had forgotten all about Irsay's drunken rant on TV in January of '84 about the Colts where he said ... "This is my goddamn team!" Then in March he moved to Indy.

One of the best reads of any sports book is Art Donovan's "Fatso". Besides his great storytelling nature, he really goes into the love affair between the city, himself and the team. The book has been out quite a while, but it's worth finding if you can.

[GaryG]

This does not bode well for the Heat and their fans....LBJ (or is it King James) is telling the coach how to run the team and comparing himself to <gulp> Randy Moss!! Looks like a long hot winter with the Lakers and Celtics meeting one more time. Isn't that better anyway?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5802449