MAKE SEPARATE BETTING WINDOWS FOR 10CENT SUPER PLAYERS!!!!!

[so.cal.fan]

This has become a big problem at Santa Anita and Hollywood Park, and I'm sure it also applies to Del Mar.

These people betting 10 cent supers often do their handicapping at the windows or especially the insta bet windows, they are a real PITA.

They are welcome to get in the pools, of course, but they need separate betting windows.

:mad:

[andymays]

This is one of the reasons I don't go to Del Mar anymore. The Polytrack is the main reason but since Del Mar is a more of a tourist meet some people can spend over 5 minutes trying to make supers on a $2.60 voucher. They make a bet then cancel, make a bet then cancel, and this goes on and on.

It's a big problem on busy days but I don't know what the solution would be.

[eastie]

the solution would be to make it 50 cents min not a dime. Stupidest idea in history, the dime super. (sorry B A Bob)

[andymays]

the solution would be to make it 50 cents min not a dime. Stupidest idea in history, the dime super. (sorry B A Bob)

Good point. They need to do something.

[JustRalph]

the solution would be to make it 50 cents min not a dime. Stupidest idea in history, the dime super. (sorry B A Bob)

It's a great idea, adds to the pools. But as usual the Racing industry has no idea how to implement it. There is absolutely no reason for anybody to be standing at a voucher machine anymore. Nor going to a window. We should all be doing it from our seats. It is so easy to implement a localized network that could go straight into the "local" (i.e. on track pools) via cell phone or other device and the fact that it hasn't been done is a mystery to me. Oh yeah, I keep forgetting how cheap the tracks are. It would require cooperation between the Amtote types etc.....which always seems to be a giant hurdle. Why? Can anybody answer that? Todd? Are you out there?

I sat at Saratoga for a week and played via my Ipad and never went to a window or machine......... of course that handle went through Twinspires. But with todays technology.......this would not even be a challenge for a good I.T. department. The cost of this is lower than ever too. The extra handle from ten cent supers for just one meet would probably pay for it. Not to mention the convenience factor. How many "older" players don't go out to the track because of mobility issues? They cannot get up and down to run to the windows anymore. The voucher machines are a pain in the ass too. Touch screen tech is here! They need to use it. No more lost vouchers, no more leaving a voucher in a machine etc........

[turfnsport]

This has become a big problem at Santa Anita and Hollywood Park, and I'm sure it also applies to Del Mar.

These people betting 10 cent supers often do their handicapping at the windows or especially the insta bet windows, they are a real PITA.

They are welcome to get in the pools, of course, but they need separate betting windows.

:mad:

Why don't you take 5 mins and show the newbie how to use a self service machine? If every regular at the track did that with one newbie, problem solved. And newbies might come back more often because they won't be getting yelled at as much.

[BlueShoe]

How many "older" players don't go out to the track because of mobility issues? They cannot get up and down to run to the windows anymore. The voucher machines are a pain in the ass too. Touch screen tech is here! They need to use it. No more lost vouchers, no more leaving a voucher in a machine etc........
Because of my contrarian nature am departing from most of the popular opinions here. First off, I am old, but still am very mobile, and have been told by others that I move very fast for an old geezer. Actually rather enjoy the jumping up and down to run to the machines all day, it is good exercise. As for dime supers, am a fan of them for one main hardnosed reason; money. When the super pays a thousand bucks for a dollar and you have several winning dime tickets in your pocket, nice to know that no taxes will be forthcoming, which would be had you keyed in one dollar increments. Real easy to hit the repeat key on the Sam as many times as you wish, does not take that much extra time. As a regular at the SoCal tracks and otb sites, have come to recognize many of the slowpoke bettors and avoid getting in line behind them. If a stranger starts betting dime supers in front of me and seems clueless, will jump into another line if possible. One facility, Fairplex, has set up a convenience that I have not used and am not real familiar with. There are several betting terminals on the tables around the room. A patron sets up an account and receives a player card. They can then just stay at their seat, swipe the card, and enter their selections. Not real popular so far, has not really caught on, most fans still use the Sams and manned windows.

[beertapper]

just make em use the self service machines..

[Tom]

Pretty sad that alleged intelligent, educated people like the fine folks who run race tracks are so.....totally incompetent at every level. What racing needs is few less "nephews." :rolleyes:

If you run a race track and have an office - you are not doing your job. You should do all your work in the grandstand.

[Stillriledup]

Its not just the 10 cent super people, its everyone who has a voucher less than 5 dollars. If i had a penny for everytime i was standing in line behind a person with a voucher LESS than 5 dollars (when my voucher is usually at least a grand) i'd have a lot more money.

There's a lot they can do, but refuse to do it.

They need specific SAM machines that require a voucher of at least 100 dollars be put into the machine, that way, it will at least weed out anyone who doesn't have 100 bucks to play with.

[Indulto]

Perhaps dime super wagers should be accepted at self-service machines with betting card input ONLY, at least from 15 MTP on down.

A simpler superfecta specification format on such cards might be more helpful newbies as well; especially in determining what their bet will cost.

[therussmeister]

There is absolutely no reason for anybody to be standing at a voucher machine anymore. Nor going to a window. We should all be doing it from our seats.
You mean they don't already do this? They do at my track. Not with cell phones, but with a device they give you. Guess what? Almost nobody uses it.

[tbwinner]

They need specific SAM machines that require a voucher of at least 100 dollars be put into the machine, that way, it will at least weed out anyone who doesn't have 100 bucks to play with.

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

This is a great idea. Enough of the old guys and women with children playing 10-cent straight supers, without a program, whipping numbers out their ass.
1-5-7-3 cancel
3-9-6-2 cancel
5-6-2-1 cancel
4-6-8-9 cancel
3-7-6-1 cancel
3-6-7-1 race off, pools closed

[Stillriledup]

Ever notice that NO racetrack EVER has a sign near the SAM machines that says, "Please be considerate to your fellow horseplayer, have your voucher in hand and be ready to play. Please no handicapping at the machines, they are for betting only. If you still need time to determine what wagers you are going to make, step aside until you are ready. Thank you for your consideration"

Por favor sea considerado con su horseplayer compañeros, tienen su bono en la mano y estar listo para jugar. Por favor, no de discapacidad en las máquinas, que son sólo para hacer apuestas. Si usted todavía necesita tiempo para determinar lo que las apuestas que se va a hacer, a un lado hasta que esté listo. Gracias por su consideración "

[thespaah]

This has become a big problem at Santa Anita and Hollywood Park, and I'm sure it also applies to Del Mar.

These people betting 10 cent supers often do their handicapping at the windows or especially the insta bet windows, they are a real PITA.

They are welcome to get in the pools, of course, but they need separate betting windows.

:mad:
This could easily be rectified by setting a 60 second time limit at any window.
As far as I am concerned, if one requires more time than a minute, they are handicapping at the window or having made their selections in advance ,too lazy to memorize or write them down. Get out of the friggin way.

[affirmedny]

This could easily be rectified by setting a 60 second time limit at any window.
As far as I am concerned, if one requires more time than a minute, they are handicapping at the window or having made their selections in advance ,too lazy to memorize or write them down. Get out of the friggin way.

The machines at the Meadowlands do this. If you don't touch it for a minute or so it times out.

[JustRalph]

Its not just the 10 cent super people, its everyone who has a voucher less than 5 dollars. If i had a penny for everytime i was standing in line behind a person with a voucher LESS than 5 dollars (when my voucher is usually at least a grand) i'd have a lot more money.

There's a lot they can do, but refuse to do it.

They need specific SAM machines that require a voucher of at least 100 dollars be put into the machine, that way, it will at least weed out anyone who doesn't have 100 bucks to play with.

I bet you are hell to deal with in the grocery store line......

"off with their heads! " and "Let them eat cake" are your favorite bumper stickers right?

[BlueShoe]

The machines at the Meadowlands do this. If you don't touch it for a minute or so it times out.
So do the Sams in California. It ejects your voucher and tickets and then goes back to the idle machine logo. Makes absolutely no differerence whatsoever to the dreamers and dolts, they just drop their voucher back in again and start all over again.

[Sericm]

The problem is too many of the patrons at the SAMS:
1. Do their handicapping at the machine.
2. Don't realize the siize of the bet they are making.
3. Are just plain to STUPID to figure out how to use the technology.

I am 71 yrs. old. I use bet cards if I am using a SAM and know what my bet costs.

I quit doing that because I got tired of waiting in line for people in points 1-2-3.

I play at the facility at Fairplex, Pomona. You buy a players card. You can then go to a terminal they have at the tables. You log-in with a pin # then go and buy a voucher. You swipe your card put in your pin and make a deposit.
Then you can go back to your seat and bet all day without getting up.
You can bet, cancel, check your bets, get a recap and at the end of the day go to a SAM put in your pin and collect any winnings. It gives you a voucher which you take to a teller. Every facility should have that.

[letswastemoney]

I stay home and log on to the internet. :)

[JustRalph]

You mean they don't already do this? They do at my track. Not with cell phones, but with a device they give you. Guess what? Almost nobody uses it.

Get rid of the machines and they won't have a choice and they will like it.

In business it is called forced migration for the good of the customer

[Indulto]

Its not just the 10 cent super people, its everyone who has a voucher less than 5 dollars. If i had a penny for everytime i was standing in line behind a person with a voucher LESS than 5 dollars (when my voucher is usually at least a grand) i'd have a lot more money.

There's a lot they can do, but refuse to do it.

They need specific SAM machines that require a voucher of at least 100 dollars be put into the machine, that way, it will at least weed out anyone who doesn't have 100 bucks to play with.xRU,
It seems unlikely to me that someone getting those huge, character-building rebates you advocate would be standing in line at a racetrack to bet at a self-service machine.

Is your usual voucher "at least a grand" or a delusion of grandeur? ;)

If I had a dime for every post of yours I laugh at rather than with, I'd have enough for a voucher to avoid beng "weeded out." :jump:

[PIC6SIX]

Good thread. I am from Ohio but frequent SA and also find it frustrating when people handicap at the window with the program in hand. They need to put them in a room by themselves. How about this, a 10 cent super room. Just kidding, but maybe there is some substance to this concept since they would be segregated from the more savy and serious bettors.

[Indulto]

I appreciate the frustration of all those inconvenienced snd irritated by the inexperienced, infirm, inebriated, inconsiderate, and incompetent bettors trying to get down on a dream for a dime. However, if you want to expand the racing experience to slot amd lottery players, this is where it is most likely to happen.

Someone suggested earlier that we might try to help them out, but I agree that is management's job. However, whenever we see it occurring we could make it our job to get them that help. No-one should suffeer in silence, but snarling and yelling at these folks isn't a fraction as satisfying as registering a valid complaint with righteous indignation.

It's in management's interest to eliminate this bottleneck and putting pressure on them to do so is the way to go.

[so.cal.fan]

In reply to Turfnsports comment:

I don't think "newbys" bet 10cent supers.
The people I see are regulars. They are also for the most part a-holes who don't give a damn if they are holding up a line.
I'm talking about people who bet 10cent supers at the insta bet machines.
And why should I or any other bettor take time to instruct them how to bet?
I wouldn't mind if I had the time, and it really was a new player, but that isn't what I see, at least not at Santa Anita and Hollywood Park.
The track should have a separate area for them to bet and pay someone to do the instructing.
Most new people go to windows, again there should be a special section of windows ONLY for people who want instructions.

[BlueShoe]

I play at the facility at Fairplex, Pomona. You buy a players card. You can then go to a terminal they have at the tables. You log-in with a pin # then go and buy a voucher. You swipe your card put in your pin and make a deposit.Then you can go back to your seat and bet all day without getting up.You can bet, cancel, check your bets, get a recap and at the end of the day go to a SAM put in your pin and collect any winnings. It gives you a voucher which you take to a teller. Every facility should have that.
Mentioned this in an earlier post. This option is not popular at Pomona, at least not yet. Most of the time will see many of the terminals not being used. Because of the decline in racing attendance, the jam at the windows and shutout risk is much less than what it was 5-10 years ago. Have not seen a brawl in two or three years, and it has been four or five since I almost got in one. Almost always the ones that are holding up the line are the ones that become very nasty and aggressive when asked to speed it up, no matter how politely they are asked. In SoCal the betting pattern is for the windows to get very busy in the last five minutes before the local race goes off. Trying to get a bet down at Belmont or Keeneland when it is postime at Oaktree is not the thing to do. If I know beforehand what my wager is going to be on an out of town race, favorite time to make it is during the running of the local race, when the entire room is focused on it and the Sams and windows are virtually deserted except for an occasional contrarian like myself.

[PhantomOnTour]

The SAM machine jam-up is a big problem at FG on big race days. Any other day there are plenty empty SAMs to accomodate everyone. When I attend on a big day I make sure to fund my ADW account beforehand as a backup. If it appears that I will get shut out I just phone the bet in while standing in line. You must get in line during the post parade or you won't make it.
Sadly, I have a close friend who 'caps at the window and couldn't give two sheets what others think....he has been banned from an OTB for many near brawls as a result of this behavior. I can't seem to convince him to change his ways....DON'T EVEN LEAVE YOUR SEAT UNLESS YOU ARE SURE OF WHAT NUMBERS YOU WILL PLAY!!
It's that simple.....and beware, the racetrack strangler is coming to a SAM machine near you. Anyone ever seen a fight erupt as a result of this? I saw two women at Pimlico go at it for a few slaps but nothin' serious.

[BlueShoe]

Anyone ever seen a fight erupt as a result of this?
Many, some going back as far as the old paper ticket days of the 60's and 70's. Whenever gambling, money, high emotions, and possibly alcohol are mixed, there are going to be disputes, and that means brawls. Yours truly has come very, very close to getting involved in several, although not recently. Were it not for the intervention of others, most surely would have gotten involved in a scrap or two. When a pair of very large security guards threaten you with ejection or even arrest if you throw the first punch or do not calm down, one does tend to back off. The racetracks and otb sites have always been frequented by many boorish, ill mannered persons with Me Only mindsets. Anyone that goes to the races often for a length of time is going to come in contact with these anal slugs, not just in the betting lines, but all over the facility. They must either be avoided or confronted and dealt with firmly.

[BombsAway Bob]

the solution would be to make it 50 cents min not a dime. Stupidest idea in history, the dime super. (sorry B A Bob)
You're Killing Me with the Fitty Cent minimum!
BLATANT REDBOARD
i just caught a LMSP in 5th@LosAl Sunday,
(ALL)(ALL)(1,2)(1,2)=$4
Dime Returned $935 in 7-horse field...
Dime Supers ARE Super!

[PhantomOnTour]

You're Killing Me with the Fitty Cent minimum!
BLATANT REDBOARD
i just caught a LMSP in 5th@LosAl Sunday,
(ALL)(ALL)(1,2)(1,2)=$4
Dime Returned $935 in 7-horse field...
Dime Supers ARE Super!
Awesome :lol:
How 'bout this idea: keep the 10cent min but disable the 'REPEAT' button :lol:

Nice score Bob :ThmbUp:

[Steve 'StatMan']

You mean they don't already do this? They do at my track. Not with cell phones, but with a device they give you. Guess what? Almost nobody uses it.

I know they've had them for years at Arlington, but don't really promote them. When they did, they were only usuable in the immediate area near the simicast area inside, you couldn't take them around or outdoors. Also, I'd heard one couldn't cancel their bets with them. Hopefully the devices and usage flexibility is much better now, but they are pretty much a well-kept secret. Besides, I hear many bettors including many horsement bet off-shore on their cellphones - so not even going into the tracks pools where the track earns their purse money - and they've already got their convience. <added> I rememer now that there was a rather steep deposit required to get a bet-mate in the past at AP, likely not for everyone.<end add>

I enjoy bringing my Laptop to the track - wish I could use it to bet - I know betting through one of my ADW's would be frowned upon, even if they owned the ADW, but would be glad to use a track-sponsored secure wireless betting platform while at the track. AP has wireless all over the track now. HAW last I knew had wireless in certain areas.

[BlueShoe]

How 'bout this idea: keep the 10cent min but disable the 'REPEAT' button :lol:
:eek: :eek: :eek: NO, NO, NO. :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:

[JohnGalt1]

[QUOTE=Sericm]The problem is too many of the patrons at the SAMS:
1. Do their handicapping at the machine.
2. Don't realize the siize of the bet they are making.
3. Are just plain to STUPID to figure out how to use the technology.

These are the people I like betting against!

[tbwinner]

I know they've had them for years at Arlington, but don't really promote them. When they did, they were only usuable in the immediate area near the simicast area inside, you couldn't take them around or outdoors. Also, I'd heard one couldn't cancel their bets with them. Hopefully the devices and usage flexibility is much better now, but they are pretty much a well-kept secret. Besides, I hear many bettors including many horsement bet off-shore on their cellphones - so not even going into the tracks pools where the track earns their purse money - and they've already got their convience. <added> I rememer now that there was a rather steep deposit required to get a bet-mate in the past at AP, likely not for everyone.<end add>

I enjoy bringing my Laptop to the track - wish I could use it to bet - I know betting through one of my ADW's would be frowned upon, even if they owned the ADW, but would be glad to use a track-sponsored secure wireless betting platform while at the track. AP has wireless all over the track now. HAW last I knew had wireless in certain areas.

They do still have the bet-mates at AP, and they are able to be used in the boxes and apron. People with season boxes have access to them as well as TwinSpires gold members. They do allow cancels now, and are quite functional. Was great to use on Derby and Million Day!

[Stillriledup]

xRU,
It seems unlikely to me that someone getting those huge, character-building rebates you advocate would be standing in line at a racetrack to bet at a self-service machine.

Is your usual voucher "at least a grand" or a delusion of grandeur? ;)

If I had a dime for every post of yours I laugh at rather than with, I'd have enough for a voucher to avoid beng "weeded out." :jump:

I'm not sure what you're talking about, you must have me confused with someone else. :p

[Stillriledup]

I bet you are hell to deal with in the grocery store line......

"off with their heads! " and "Let them eat cake" are your favorite bumper stickers right?

I don't mind waiting....IF someone is actually BETTING (or buying groceries). I get agitated when someone in front of me on line at the express grocery line is paying with a check...usually, that defeats the purpose of the word 'express'.

A sign that says "cash only" at the express line might help it be, well, express.

[Irish Boy]

We should make sure to alienate low budget players and new players from the sport. That's the ticket to the longterm success of thoroughbred racing. More elbow space for the diehards.

[BlueShoe]

We should make sure to alienate low budget players and new players from the sport. That's the ticket to the longterm success of thoroughbred racing. More elbow space for the diehards.
But these are not the ones under discussion. We are talking about the dolts that have been coming for perhaps years, yet have no sense of consideration for others and operate in a self centered universe. Perhaps they simply lack the intelligence or organizational skills to swiftly and correctly enter their wagers, but in fact, most of these types operate in a "screw you, I dont care one bit about you, I am Me and I am Important" mindset.

[toussaud]

This has become a big problem at Santa Anita and Hollywood Park, and I'm sure it also applies to Del Mar.

These people betting 10 cent supers often do their handicapping at the windows or especially the insta bet windows, they are a real PITA.

They are welcome to get in the pools, of course, but they need separate betting windows.

:mad:
this is quite possibly the best idea i've seen all year. now that you mention it this is a must.

[thespaah]

But these are not the ones under discussion. We are talking about the dolts that have been coming for perhaps years, yet have no sense of consideration for others and operate in a self centered universe. Perhaps they simply lack the intelligence or organizational skills to swiftly and correctly enter their wagers, but in fact, most of these types operate in a "screw you, I dont care one bit about you, I am Me and I am Important" mindset.
I concur. The ones discussed here are the inconsiderate jerks who think their time is ONLY their time.
I equate this to the nmorons at the ATM who insert card, take 45 -60 seconds to figure out how to use the machine then remeber thye wanted to perform a second transaction....Then there are the ones (again ATM) that finish their business then pull up half a car length and rearrange themselves, put their wallet away and the one that wants to make me beat the crap out of them......count the money THEY just withdrew...If the count is incorrect, who the hell are they going to complain to?.
I have seen all kinds of nonsese at the track. The one who never has his/her money or voucher in hand. The ones that have their Form or program and as they flip from page to page looking for that magic horse as the minutes to post tick by...
I think the betting machine should have a 60 second time limit. And then a 5 minute time out for that voucher. That menas that voucher cannot be used at that window for 5 mins after the machine had timed out.:mad:

[cosmo96]

If someone is taking too much time I bitch, complain, and act rude. This may not stop the slowpoke at the window, but it sure discourages others. You have to fight fire with fire. It is rude to handicap at the window. I always avoid lines when people have notebooks or forms. Watch out for someone who leans on the counter. Some may just be dumb, but they need to learn.

[BlueShoe]

I always avoid lines when people have notebooks or forms. Watch out for someone who leans on the counter.
Amen on the leaners, they are poison. A program is okay, but not a form. As mentioned earlier, have ID'ed many of slowpoke regulars long ago and avoid their lines. Not trying to start a class warfare debate, but eyeballing the demographic makeup of a long line can help a bit. A line with an overrepresentation of very young, very old, female, and certain ethnic groups is going to move slower as a rule. Of course a jackass that holds up the line can come from any group, no way to predict it. Very likely most of us could tell shutout stories about being shutout by a slowpoke in front of us that cost us a great deal of money.

[Striker]

I have only been to a handful of tracks and the only one in Cali that I have been to is Santa Anita. One thing that blew my mind was that like many have said in this thread, was that most machines had people camped out at them for the entire day with their forms and they would never leave these machines even for the race. Don't know how Hollywood or Del Mar does things but I'm from Chicago where we just have machines to put the money in and make bets but at Santa Anita you had to go to machines just to get vouchers and then go to the self service machines to bet. This was a pain in the ass at times as I would have to wait to use 1 machine and then have to wait to make a bet. After that first day I decided to pay the $20 to go in the turf club and these problems were all solved.

[toussaud]

this is a random rant but I think it's very inefficient the way they have the windows setup

lol, this isn't the grocery store, it doesn't take me any longer to make a 500 dollar win wager than it takes to make a 10 dollar win wager

AI think the windows in general should be separated by the complexity of the wagers with the "gonna be awhile?" bets having their own wager and the "quick bet" (win/place/show) having their own window

[BlueShoe]

The unisex bet and cash any amount at any window system arrived in SoCal at the 1979 Hollypark meet. Should still be a lot of guys on this forum that recall the old paper ticket days where you went to denomination designated windows to bet and cash. A good mutuel clerk could make the line really flow provided the bettor knew what he wanted and had his cash ready. For example, you could step up to the $10 win window, slap down a pair of twenties and call out, "number 8 four times", and five seconds later you were gone, with your tickets in your hand. Ah, the old days, in some ways, so much better.