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cj
09-11-2003, 08:30 AM
Does anyone else think it's BS all the benefits the victim's families of 9-11 are getting? After all, you and I are paying for it.

Watching Fox News this morning, the Governor of New Jersey said "We have to get these people's kids college education payed for, we have to get their mortgages paid."

Why? Heard of Life Insurance? People die tragically every day in this country! They don't get squat from the government. Not to mention the people who have died serving their country in Iraq. What do they get?

sq764
09-11-2003, 09:05 AM
I agree with you entirely..

And I would love to see a balance sheet of all of the money donated during the 9/11 charity event a 3 years ago; the one with the stars singing...

I wonder where all that money went..

Pace Cap'n
09-11-2003, 11:24 AM
CJ--I agree.

NPR had a segment about that yesterday. Largest outpouring of donations ever. About $20 billion(!) from the private sector, and a like amount from the government.

Apparently, that money is having a difficult time finding its way to the intended recipients.

And the other question: Should the investment banker be awarded the same proportionate share as the cleaning lady?

Some of those hit hardest in the pocketbook have yet to see ANY relief.

One woman applied for funds, was told she needed to submit copies of her tax return, requested copies from the IRS, who told her they could only send copies to the address listed on the return. The address was One World Trade Center, which of course no longer existed.

I, too, would like to see an accounting of all donations.

GameTheory
09-11-2003, 11:55 AM
If money was donated that was intended for victim's families, then it should go to victim's families, whether they deserve it or not. I'm not aware of the government using tax money to give to these people, is that what they're doing?

It is sort of special case, not just a run of the mill tragedy -- this was an a foreign ATTACK, no different than if an actual bomber had come and dropped bombs on those buildings.

Saying that other victims deserve something as well (e.g. those Americans in Iraq) isn't an argument to take it away from some other group of victims.

Tom
09-11-2003, 12:30 PM
That money could be used to provide tranpsortation costs and security to Bush while he flies around the country attending fund raisers, or pay the White house staff to throw elaborate dinners for Sorry Arabian princes parading through denying they are terrorists, or, maybe most importantly, it could be used to fund the fourth consecutive pay raise that congress is in the process of voting for itself.

superfecta
09-11-2003, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by Tom
That money could be used to provide tranpsortation costs and security to Bush while he flies around the country attending fund raisers, or pay the White house staff to throw elaborate dinners for Sorry Arabian princes parading through denying they are terrorists, or, maybe most importantly, it could be used to fund the fourth consecutive pay raise that congress is in the process of voting for itself. Hey Tom ,they were affected too!:rolleyes: Seriously,I feel as assey as CJ.There is only so much we can do for those hurt ,life has to go on,the country should not treat these people as helpless and need financial support for life.But ,like OKC bombing victims,some people want to milk a bad situation for all they can get.The govt should do all it can to insure this terorism never strikes again,and those responsible are held accountable,thats what we are responsible for.

cj
09-11-2003, 02:31 PM
When the governor of NJ says "we" have to do things for these people, I assumed he meant the state and federal governments. I do not want my tax dollars paying for mortgages and tuition. As for the charity money, of course it should go to the families, never had a problem with that.

Suff
09-11-2003, 02:45 PM
What did the People from Edward P. Murrah Building tradegy get from the Govt?

Did'nt the Govt kick in Big to those families? They were all Federal Employees too...? What they get? You know?

Suff
09-11-2003, 02:47 PM
btw...Love the Matching Avatars... Have'nt I seen you in that pose before? Lol.. Got your Mail... I'll drop you a Private note about it over the weekend.

zieglerjw
09-11-2003, 06:07 PM
Has any one tried to "sue "the "SAUDIS" for their responsibility as to the fact that most of the pilots of those planes which crashed into the WTC on 09/11 were SAUDIS ??!!???????

Tom
09-11-2003, 07:25 PM
I'd rather see my tax dollars going to tuition and mortgages than to a bunch of SOB Iraqi's.
We should be doing things there-find the WMD and find Sadamn.
Then leave. If they can't fix thier country, screw 'em. Not my problem.

delayjf
09-11-2003, 11:49 PM
I'm with CJ on this one. I don't think my tax dollars should be spent to compensate the victoms of 9-11. As it was mentioned before, the OK City victims got nothing. In addition, how about the victims of the Beirut bombing, the Kobal towers, the USS Cole. Some will say that they volunteered to serve and knew the risks. I would argue that logic would be a reason to include them in on the pay outs. Remember, those NY police and firemen knew and accepted the risks as well. Are the victims of the Pentagon attack even eligable for compensation?

I watched an attorney on the Oreilly factor who claimed that the law suits were more of a fact finding mission. Does anybody really believe that??? This is about the money. It galls me that some hot shot law firm will make millions, without having suffered any lost. Mean time American, United Airlines will probably go bankrupt costing thousands their jobs.

superfecta
09-12-2003, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by Sufferindowns
What did the People from Edward P. Murrah Building tradegy get from the Govt?

Did'nt the Govt kick in Big to those families? They were all Federal Employees too...? What they get? You know? I'm sure they got the full death benefits that the federal employees were eligible for,but many were not federal employees.But most were taken care of properly.But some wanted face time on TV,evidently.Every few days we had someone from a victims family wanting compensation from the govt. for pain and sufferin.Was a few lawsuits filed but so far they have gone nowhere.A senator introduced a compensation bill,but luckily it hasn't gone anywhere.There were many private donations(one of the biggest was rumored to be from Dennis Rodman)which is fine,but blaming the govt. and asking for money is a bit much IMO.There was even fighting over how to design the memorial.All of it began to get on my nerves.

doophus
09-12-2003, 01:01 AM
And the families of the Pennsylvania crash were refused assistance because they weren't part of the Twin Towers scene. And the Red Cross planned to keep most of the donations in a "rainy day fund."

Just maybe I'm beginning to understand my cynicism.

MikeDee
09-12-2003, 09:05 AM
The government is trying to give people this money so that they can avoid the lawsuits. Many are not taking it because they think they can get more from the lawsuit route.

It will be interesting to see how the lawsuits go, now that a judge has said the they can sue the question becomes was the government/airlines/airports/world trade center/ negligent in providing security? Should 9/11 have been prevented?

delayjf
09-12-2003, 05:41 PM
Has anybody seen the conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11. One guy thinks the whole thing was orchastrated by Pres Bush and the Israel.

I'm sick of all these lawsuits, if they do lose, you can bet that they will then cry about not getting the federal funds and I'm sure some weak kneed Senator will insist they get their money.

Is that correct, only the twin tower victoms are getting offered compensation?? I wonder if Bush can grant a pardon in Civil cases.

What about the firemen, policemen and service members who have died since 9/11 serving their city/country. Are their lives not worth as much as the 9/11 victoms. What's next, natural disaster victoms, will they have a "Right" to compensation. I'm afraid we've openned up a big can of worms here, another entitlement.

sq764
09-12-2003, 06:39 PM
I mentioned this whole thing to my wife, just to get her opinion.. After I said I too was a little disgusted that these people are getting millions of dollars (in addition to the life insurance that is already in place for them), she disagreed..

When I said "Well, if I die tomorrow, will you get a million dollars?." She says "Well you didn't die in a tragedy."

An interesting stance, but one that I grossly disagree with. The theory that loss of life in a tragedy is more appreciated than loss of life due to 'natural causes' kind of disturbs me.

PaceAdvantage
09-12-2003, 10:27 PM
brings to mind the phrase "untimely death".....


What death IS timely?????

Suff
09-13-2003, 03:52 AM
Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
brings to mind the phrase "untimely death".....


What death IS timely?????

I know a few that are "Due"

Tom
09-13-2003, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
brings to mind the phrase "untimely death".....


What death IS timely?????

A telemarketer????

doophus
09-13-2003, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by delayjf
.....Is that correct, only the twin tower victoms are getting offered compensation?? I wonder if Bush can grant a pardon in Civil cases.

Apparently most of the donated $$ were specific to the NYC war-zone. Early on there were a number of mini-brouhaha's concerning the distribution of those donated funds. The Pentagon military and Pa plane crash victims were originally excluded, but that changed rather quickly due to public outcries. You may remember that the Director of the Amer Red Cross was forced to resign over the "rainy day" fund fiasco.

Do a search on Google for 9/11 victim compensation. What an assortment of disasters! Gays/lesbians wanted to be compensated for the loss of their partner instead of the victim's NOK. Many have been convicted for fraud. One guy was convicted of defrauding to the tune of $193k. Dependent kids having to file suit against step-parent to receive the $$$ due them because the aid-parsers decided it was "easier" if they dealt with only (1) member of each family.

WARNING: Reading a lot of the Google search results will cause your doctor to prescribe anxiety medication. A good case of red-a** is promised.

WINMANWIN
09-14-2003, 11:52 AM
Just to clarify, If the victims families choose to take the govt settlement, They cant collect Life insurance policies, and the govt settlement, which many families think is unfair. Last week a judge ruled that the families can SUE the airlines, To my knowledge,
just over half the families have taken the goverment's settlement.

delayjf
09-14-2003, 10:11 PM
I'm on record as stating that the victoms don't deserve the federal compensation. BUT, if anybody were to recieve it, it should be only those who have / will suffer the financial hard ship due to the loss of the relative. So why do brothers, sisters, Mothers and Father rate compensation if and when they have no financial tie to the victim.

Suff
09-15-2003, 05:10 AM
its a payoff,,,so to speak...and I think They are mostly talking wives and children,, But?

If my Brother came to your house to FIX your plumbing....and while there, a local gang you were feuding with did a DRIVE BY shooting and Killed my brother...

You can bet I'll sue you for not providing a safe environment for my brother to work in....at the very least...

and probably win.. But should'nt the insurance company pay?

They could never afford it...so the Govt saves them by making settlement payments. Don't be mad at the people...Be mad at the Govt and the insurance company.

The Govt Bailed out the Airlines already didn't they? The Airlines took a hit..and thet petitioned the Govt for help...and they got Billions right after 9-11.


What happend to the republican attitude towards people? If you don;t tow the line and you end up homeless... many people say GIVE them nothing. I've heard it said many times out here...

people are Bums, Homeless, drunk, incacerated, out of work, on welfare...BY CHOICE.. and they should get NOTHING.

Well,, that same hard nose philisophy applied to the Insurnace companies and the Airlines would Bankrupt them..

So the govt steps in and saves them to the tune of Billions.. By the way...that money they gave the airlines and soon the insurnace companies,,,and Iraq, and Pakistan, and Raytheon , and Halliburton , thats my money..and your money.

But let ONE guy need $2000.00 a month for a place to live and something to eat and he's "whats wrong with this country"

delayjf
09-15-2003, 05:44 PM
Sufferin,

I'm not sure I agree with your scenario. First of all, this was an unprovoked attack, an act of war. I know what some out there think that our support of Israel justifies the attack, that we were asking for it, but I'm not buying that.

Secondly, what is my liability to defend the public from a drive-by shooting. If the Police can't do it with all their resources, how could I be expected too. If that were the case then all schools in the US should be liable because it is reasonable to assume that gang members were attending the school. For that matter, the cities and the state should be liable for not making the schools safe or declaring the school a "drive-by zone".

In reality, I doubt that anybody would sue me, but rest assured, the company that made the gun, bullet, or the car that was driven in the drive-by will get sued.

I can understand your distain for Corp America. Certainly Corp higher ups can make a forture. But as long as what they do is legal, I have no quarrel with them or their wealth. Keep in mind, that it is Corp America / wealthy Americans that pay most of the bills in this country, not to mention the health care and retirements for millions.

Consider for one moment, the impact on our economy if the airline industry had gone belly up. How would this impact the employees of those corps.

Again, how do you justify the Gov payments to the NY victims and ignore the OK City victims, Beirut victims, etc. Our their families any less devastated?

How about the attorneys who stand to make millions over this, more than any victim will ever recieve. In my mind they are worse than any CEO, (except of course the ken Lays.)

Dave Schwartz
09-15-2003, 07:51 PM
It sounds to me like you are both saying the same thing.

As for the corporate big boys making big bucks, my experience is that the mule skinner generally makes way more than the mule.

Tom
09-15-2003, 08:18 PM
I just don't get the volume of posts on this subject. Maybe they don' t deserve the money, maybe they should have to take insurance or sue, but bottom line is that the worthless, totally unneeded tourest center they are building in DC would pay for this many times over. It jsut seems that there are a zillion other areas where Uncle Sugar is throwing our money away to get upset about first.
JMHO