Breeding News

[Suff]

Mineshaft standing at Lands end in 2004. No fee announced.

There were 27 Million dollar Purchases at the Keeneland spetember Yearling Sale.

3.8 Million was spent on one filly out of Gone west.

Bloodhorse and DRF have good reports available.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/49643.html

These sales are good to follow. I get the feeling that the Top owners feel they have the best stallions and are buying TOP Fillys for matching reasons.

Some of these Sire's are now 3rd crop..and the sales price is a good indication of their Progeny success or Mare matching. When they get 2 or 3 crops to work with thay have a better idea of what Mares best fit...to some degree.

The big winners (besides the consigners) were

Gone west, Giant Causeway, Danzig, Storm Cat (of course), Lemon Drop Kid, Saint ballado, Fuscahi Pegasus/

A Fuscahi Pegasus/sharp cat Filly sold for 1.8 Mil

This was all on Day one.. Yesterdays sales topper was a Distorted Humor Colt for $500,000.00 ..Despite Funnycide..Buyers are'nt all that Hot on Distorted Humor stock

Dubain Millennium who died after producing ONE crop had some of his stock for sale. Only 4 of his Foals are expected to be bought Publicly. After his untimely Death..The Connections went back and did essentailly "Right of first Refusal" agreements with his Foals.. Only because they could'nt reach agreement with one owner did any of Dubain Millennium foals even see the PUBLIC eye...

Thats an interesting story all by itself. A few Minutes reading and following of the auction is worth it.

[Observer]

Originally posted by Sufferindowns
A Fuscahi Pegasus/sharp cat Filly sold for 1.8 Mil


Saw a video clip of this filly .. and I thought .. WOW!! But was then disappointed to hear she was going for a career overseas.

[Suff]

I was looking in the Almanac....6 of the last 12 winners of the Juvenile stand in Japan,(4) one in Australia and one in Saudi Arabia. One is Dead, and one is still in Training (macho uno)

That means only 4 of the last 12 stand in the USA.

Another thing that raised a question as I follow this sale. I see one word missing that I heard many times last year...

"Dosage". I see plenty of Pedigree and Conformation talk...But I rarely hear Doasge as much as I did last year or thought I would.

Do you think this Doasge thing has come and gone? or is it such an insiders thing that the press doesn't write about it. Last year everybody was buying and talking about Dosage index. This year nothing?

Whats your take on Dosage? Is it not being widely accepted as intended?

[Observer]

I've rarely seen coverage on the sales (like TVG) .. so I'm really not familiar with how they used Dosage in the past compared to how they're currently using it.

As for the use of the index .. what I find interesting, is that it seems the only time people pay any attention to Dosage is at Kentucky Derby time. Meanwhile, there are plenty of other races contested throughout the year at 1 1/4 miles. It seems the only reason why this number is as popular as it is in the spring, is because it has been so "successful" in producing Derby winners. Of course, when numbers don't fit ... they've been made to with adjustments .. like in the case of Strike the Gold. (And I think some others).

What has seemed to fall out of favor is the dual-qualifier system .. where a horse not only has the dosage, but is listed within 10 pounds of the Experimental Free highweight. But I think that's because so many good juveniles, who end up being on the Experimental Free, are simply not getting that far ... both in their campaigns and distance. The tide certainly is changing to where the good 2-year-olds just aren't going on as good 3-year-olds .. either as a result of injury, distance limitations or exceptional early maturity that falls flat as the rest of the crop develops.

Let's face it, in this game .. everyone's looking for a system .. and the one that has worked best for picking a Derby winner is Dosage .. my opinion is .. I look at them .. but the horse's don't know whether they have the right number or not, so I don't worry about it too much.
:D

[Suff]

keeneland Fall Yearling sale.

Hip #, Followed by Pedigree and Sales price.

#12 Seattle Slew -Accuse by Alleged -$350,000
#18 Giant's Causeway-Alaskan Idol 425,000
#21 Giant's Causeway-Angelica Tree RNA

#88 Storm Cat - Exing $1,750,000
#113 Unbriddled - Honoria by Danzig -$110,000
#118 Unbriddled-If Angel's Sang by Seattle Slew-$300,000
#131 Storm Cat- Lady Vixen by Sir Ivor-$650,000
#137, c. Thunder Gulch out of Life's Magic, Cox's Ridge - $325,000
#133 - Fusaichi Pegasus -Lakeway - 950,000
#195 - Danzig - Queena - 3,600,000


Hip#177, f. Unbridled out of Omi, by Wild Again - $775,000

#215 Unbriddled-Serena's Song by Rahy -$2,800,000
#225 Seattle Slew-Skatingonthinice by Icecapade -$180,000

#230 Cozzene-Spring Valley by Affirmed -$85,000
# 296 Gone West - AP Assay $1,600,000
# 303 Rahy-Balistroika 1,100,000
#509 - Kingmambo x Storm Beauty - 600,000

#715 Charasmatic -Jorghina(FR) by Seattle Slew-$250,000

[Suff]

They're into the $20,000 stock now.. But there were a couple of Nice looking horses that were bought today.

2373 DB/BR.C. Stormy Atlantic -- Patty all Mine Bruce Headley 250,000
Hill 'n' Dale Sales Agency, Agent

This was the number 2 Sale Toppper Today ...... I figure Headley/ Hill-n-Dale... Nice animal.


#1 Sales topper was

2396 DB/BR.C. Silver Charm -- Pub Crawler Kenneth L. and Sarah K. Ramsey 270,000
Stonereath Farm, Inc., Agent


The Ramseys.. they Bred travers winner .10 shine and Offlee wild too.

[Observer]

So, Suff .. now that I've said my peace on Dosage .. what's your opinion of Dosage???

[Suff]

did you see where they Just announced Today that they are Pretty sure a Caterpillar caused the 2001 Dead Foal syndrome?

Yes.. I guess they found a Bacteria that is Commonly found in Mares in thier aborted Fetus's. They traced it back to a caterpillar that has and Can get abundant enough around the Barns that it had a major effect on the Current 3 YO Crop.

As far as dosage... It goes back to the Turn of the century does it not? Or further? Gotta have so much of this Blood and so much of that blood....other than that I know very little..

I can't make head nor tails of an in-breeding report anyway...Some day I hope to learn how to read one of those.

[BillW]

Mike,

For your reference list:

http://www.chef-de-race.com/


Bill

[Tom]

Dossage number will be changed and altered as more and more data is collected and reviewed. Dossge is based on a horse's recent ancestors, so it cannot be a constant. I use it thorughout the year, as well as the numbers from Mike Helm. I never bet a horse in the Derby just on dossage, but it has led me to many huge prices and led me away from many, many short priced horses (a lot trained by Lukas) who had no chance to win.

[Observer]

Suff,

The way I remember it .. they suspected caterpillers from the very start of the Mare Reproductive Loss Syndrome .. I guess they're now just confirming their initial thoughts??

As for Dosage, I wasn't looking for a history lesson!
:D ;) :D

I was wondering if you ever consider it in your handicapping, Derby or whatever, or if you never give it any thought.

[Suff]

Originally posted by Observer
Suff,



As for Dosage, I wasn't looking for a history lesson!
:D ;) :D



and it was a Garbled Piss poor History lesson too! LMAO... sorry.


Dosage.... I first heard it last yearish , 18 Months ago? I wanted to get in on it.. I have a natural interest in Breeding. I seem to be gravitating that way in my pursuit of Enjoying more and learning more about my Thoroughbred Passion.

If I had one area that I seem to be willling to invest Hours of Research at...Its the breeding end. Not so much to make a bet, but because It interests me. and I find it challenging.

I posted an in-breeding report on PA about 6 months ago and asked if someone could help me decipher it. Of course I can read the text and I have that surrounded....But the rest is Numbers and techincal garble that I don't understand.. I would put DOSAGE in that catergory... Its something I want to get a command of.

I'm very interested in learning more about the Animal and Breeding than I am trying to learn how to "Beat the Game" ..
I'm about to go Review todays Catalog at Keeneland. Any Stickouts and I'll post them up.

I wish people who have some Basic Knowledge that they probably think " not many woud be interested in this" would inject it on to the board.. I'm starving for knowledge about Thoroughbred Breeding

[Suff]

Originally posted by Sufferindowns



#1 Sales topper was

2396 DB/BR.C. Silver Charm -- Pub Crawler Kenneth L. and Sarah K. Ramsey 270,000
Stonereath Farm, Inc., Agent


The Ramseys.. they Bred travers winner .10 shine and Offlee wild too.

This sale got more than just my attention.

Ramseys Pay $270,000 for Silver Charm's Son

Edited from a Keeneland report
A son of 1997 Kentucky Derby and Preakness winner Silver Charm brought a top price of $270,000 during Monday's session of Keeneland's September Yearling Sale.

Kenneth L. and Sarah K. Ramsey bought the dark bay or brown colt out of Pub Crawler, by Majestic Light. Stonereath Farm, Inc., agent, sold the colt, who is a half-brother to stakes winner Co Twining Niner.

Silver Charm's first foals are 2-year-olds this year.

Keeneland sold 285 horses during Monday's session for $12,305,000, an average of $43,175 and a median of $30,000.

During the corresponding session last year, 276 horses brought $10,528,400, an average of $38,146 and a median of $30,000.

With seven of 12 sessions complete, 1,690 horses have been sold for $247,770,500, an average of $146,610 and a median off $75,000.

At this point in the sale last year, 1,710 horses had been sold for $188,801,100, an average of $110,410 and a median of $60,000.

The sale continues through Saturday

[witchdoctor]

Suff
I am also interested in breeding, enough so to buy a broodmare. For a general idea on the theory of linebreeding check out Glenngary's book store at www.glengarrybooks.co.nz. The 2 books he wrote are great for beginners to understand what is going on. Also check out Ellen Parker's website and her newsletter at www.reines-de-course.com. Her horses to watch list had Lunar Sovereign about 3 months ago.

[Suff]

Great stuff. Let me share one with you... wait till you get a load of this site. I think The best Horse racing site on the WWW.

They have a message Board...and I am a Member there, but have never posted.

Go to the Research Library (listed on the Menu Bar near the Top)

http://thoroughbredchampions.com

[witchdoctor]

I like that site too.

[Suff]

Originally posted by witchdoctor
I like that site too.

lol Hound dogs always find the best stuff. That site is great.

[witchdoctor]

Here is another good pedigree site. www.pedigreepost.com
Check out the archives.

[witchdoctor]

Since I'm on a roll. Check out www.secondrunning.com to hear the race call of famous races.

[Observer]

To check out pedigrees, look up siblings, etc .. www.dmtc.com/pedigree is very helpful.

Edited to say:
Ohmygosh .. they're going to be moving!! This is a wonderful tool .. I hope they truly do stick around.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Sufferindowns
They have a message Board...and I am a Member there, but have never posted.http://thoroughbredchampions.com

What the hell are you waiting on! Get on it!

[Suff]

Do you know how much shit I had to go through to find this Board and carve out a Little place of my own where I can have fun and Learn?

I stay right here. I read other boards accasionally. And to be honest. This is the best. Overall. All the boards have great people, Great Handicappers, Smart people, Great Moderators and so on.

But PA is really the only board that is Consistently on target. Some Boards thar are good lack activity, some are awful, and most have 5 times the amount of Turmoil we have here.

We're mild next to what goes on elsewhere. I've seen Death Threats.. threats of violence are common. Sure the peolpe are wierdos or shut-ins.. But still. It's a Stench. There is a Drama being played out on one of the better boards on the internet right now that is so Bizarre it almost hard to believe. I sent PA One Thread in a PM so he knew about it and even he replied "Holy Shit"! I'm low key everwhere else. It's September and I've probably made 10 combined posts all year on the other 15 or 16 Boards I have users names for.


Back to breeding. OB or ? did you happen to see the terrific 3 part series on Breedinga nd buying on Bloodhorse>? Terrific.

But here's the thing.. I'm starting to catch on to. It's Nowhere near as hard as it appears or looks. I mean, Physically sizing up a Colt. Or some yearlings.

The Front end, Back end and the legs just about do it.

Head , eye size and Neck size, Front shoulder size and angle, same on rear, expcept emphasis on size and balance.

Legs,,, Pasturns, and hoofs, Back at the knee, and Toeing in or out.

It's no mystery... Its part "art" and sure..with years of experience you develop so that the EXPERIENCE makes you better. But the overall picture of what a Yearling, Young colt , or healthy young Horse should look like is fairly simple. Perhaps not easy.. But not complicated.

[PurplePower]

Hi Guys (and Gals),
I was in Kentucky as agent for my youngest son in the "truck buying derby" (wound up gettting a great deal in HOUSTON! while in Louisville, but that is another story.) I was at Keeneland for the third, fourth, fifth and sixth sessions and will post some specific comments about the yearlings I saw there later this weekend. I got home Wednesday, spent yesterday catching up and decided to check the board to see what was going on. (Actually was looking for a Sufferingdowns moneymaker at Belmont so I could have extra cash to take my female friend to dinner tonight - but, will have to see if my LaD race of the day can help out. I'll post that in the Selections thread so y'all will know if we are eating at Texas Prime Steak House or McDonalds.)
Anyway, as a geneticist I have always respected the concept of Dosage. As a trainer I used it to select runners to consider for claiming and for assistance in deciding training methods and race distances at which to enter. As a handicapper I use it especially when looking at 2-year olds and 3-year olds stretching out for first time. As with other handicapping "aids", I use dosage as a "tool" and not as THE magic potion.
Because it was the first numerical description of genetic make-up it was both revered and reviled (just as Mendel's gene theory and other genetic "discoveries" such as DNA). One of reasons it is not discussed as much any more is because breeders paid attention to dosage in their mating selections in the late 80's and early 90's and there is not as much dosage variation in the "derby prospect" population as there was early on.
I still have a lot of catching up to do. Dr. Steve Roman's chef-de-race site that was referred to in an earlier post has more information that just dosage. I particularly like the Average Winning Distance tables he has for sires and broodmare sires. I still have some catching up to do but will be back to posting before I leave for the second of my brief "vacations" next Wednesday.

[Suff]

/

[Tom]

.....never heard it called THAT before :eek:
Is that what Arhie Bunker meant when he told Edith to "Stifle herself? :confused: