Questions for Dick Schmidt

[Rune]

I'd make this brief, but I'm not leaving any loose ends.


In one thread, with the post dated 8-02-2001, you stated that you haven't used HTR. That thread is listed here:

http://anon.user.anonymizer.com/http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=4354#post4354

In another thread, with the post dated 8-16-01, you stated that you've used HTR. The thread is listed here:

http://anon.user.anonymizer.com/http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=4873#post4873

Some fast questions:

1) What's up with the two statements? Did you try out HTR during the 14 day interval?

2a) In the latter post, you give a weighty assessment of HTR. Assuming that you were telling the truth in both posts, do you feel that 14 days is enough time to become familiar with a program of that complexity and offer these assessments, particularly about its database?
2b) If you did test out HTR, how did you manage to make a sizeable database and/or use the other programs involved in order to be fully qualified to offer your assessments (e.g. did you subscribe to HTR to get the datafiles, borrow these datafiles from somebody else, etc.)?

3) I seem to remember hearing that you, at one time, had a financial interest in Michael Pizzola's Master Handicapper software, which you heartilly endorsed, and for which you appeared at their seminars. Is this true?

4) I also seem to remember hearing that you had a financial interest in Thorobrain, which you recommended to everybody . Is this true?

5a) Do you have a financial interest in HSH?
5b) If this is true, do you feel that you can give an impartial and objective review of HSH on a standalone basis and/or in comparison with other software?

You can claim that I have an attitude or claim I'm asking loaded questions, as you did in the thread to Mr. Schwartz, but I believe that the questions are fair, (as were the ones to Mr. Schwartz, which I wish he would have answered himself), even though they may not be viewable with rose-tinted glasses.

Thanks for your time.

[george]

Rune,

Good for you!!! A lot of us want to know.

I remember back in the Sartin days when Schmidt was the biggest sycophant...Howard said he was thirsty and
schmidt couldn't run fast enough to bring him water...and then he just stood there with the water in tow while Sartin ignored him...until Sartin was ready to drink.

Having said that, Schmidt ALWAYS follows someone...the flavor of the month is Schwartz.

Ask Schmidt if he still is 200lb overweight or has he used some of his "horseracing money" to help him.

As for Schwartz he was a baseball player which makes it easy to understand the alias "Slider" and probably "Lefty" too.

I don't know much about his software, but I know he stacks this board to make it look like there is more conversation about it.

[PaceAdvantage]

A lot of us??

[Rune]

"George", while I appreciate your enthusiasm, there's no room for us who are not in the owner's favor to be making snide comments about people. Mr. Schmidt's weight has nothing whatsoever to do with what's being discussed here, and it's poor form to bring it up.

Mr. Schwartz was a baseball player? I played a bit of A, AA, and Legion ball myself, also fastpitch softball. You learn something new everyday.

[Dave Schwartz]

George,

>>>Ask Schmidt if he still is 200lb overweight or has he used some of his "horseracing money" to help him. <<<

Now, there is a thought-provoking comment.

Actually, it is... It shows anyone that reads this that you are operating with an agenda here. Although I am not exactly sure precisely what that agenda might be, I'd venture a guess that it is not a positive one.

As for Dick Schmidt "using his 'horse racing money' to help him" I'd say that the financial security he has acheived would indicate that it has helped a little.

Of course, he'd probably say that is none of your business.

Since you have chosen to become insulting, I would request that PA remove this post and admonish you for this type of attack. Otherwise, we are on our way to being Yahoo.


Less than respectfully yours,
Dave Schwartz

[Tom]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
A lot of us??

I already know. We have a couple of losers here who need to bash someone to make up for own lack of lives.
Were they unable to win with Saratin programs? Do they blame Dick becasue they are losers? Who knows. Who cares. The bus is running again guys. Your seats are waiting.

Tom 530

[PaceAdvantage]

Actually, Rune's credibility with me was shot right off the bat when on Yahoo (under his name 'weloveclones'), he said he doesn't use clones. Only one name per board, and on this board, he was only Rune.....

It's funny, when I run my message board's 'View IPs for this user', it comes up with two other user names besides Rune's when cross referencing the IP addresses....Crowsage and Ed Hutchins....I won't draw any conclusions here, just presenting facts.

And by the way, this board does have an IGNORE function. Some people have e-mailed me asking that I get rid of these people.....let me address that:

It's obvious Rune and other's who have presented anti-HSH and anti-Dave Schwartz views have an agenda. I would have hoped they take their concerns DIRECTLY to Dave VIA HIS WEBSITE'S OPEN MESSAGE BOARD. They chose to do it here.

However, SOME of their questions were legitimate concerning Dave's software (although MOST of these questions have been asked and answered in the past on this board), regardless of their agenda.

Dave was up to the task of answering Rune's first wave of questions, and Dick Schmidt took it upon himself to answer the second wave. I don't see any real reason to delete anything from these guys at this point.

When I started this message board, it was COMPLETELY open. No registration, no nothing. Then things started to happen about a year into the existence of this site, and PeoplePlayer suggested I go to a registration system. It seemed like a good way to get back to the way I envisioned this place, and it has worked quite well since.

Now, with this newest message board software, we have the IGNORE function. You can add ANYONE (even ME) to your IGNORE list. Just click on the PROFILE button above to access your ignore list. You will never see any posts written by anyone who is on your ignore list.

Notes and board personas who get way off base will still have to be dealt with through other means, but for those people who you just don't agree with -- if you don't want to debate them, just ignore them.


Comments??


Thanks,

==PA

[Dave Schwartz]

PA,

My problem here is the personal insults to Dick Schmidt.

The other stuff I certainly don't like, but such is life.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Lefty]

Let's see, anyone who likes HSH must be Dave himself,
right. Geez. I live in Vegas, Dave lives in Reno, Slider lives in CA. That's spreading one person a little thin, isn't
it? Dave and Slider know more about computers than I
ever hope to so not possible i'm either one.
But you guys do have an agenda: anyone says something positive about HSH just say hey, he's really
Dave.
And Rune, don't you think 0 days experience with HSH is
not enough time to decide it's worthless?

[Tom]

I agree-let us decide with the ignore button.
Thanks for the tip.

Tom 532

[PaceAdvantage]

Dave,

When you put yourself out into the public eye (although we are talking Horse Racing here, I know!!), you have to expect stuff like this. I've never seen Dick Schmidt (or you for that matter, except for the photo you ran in your newsletter---LOL), so I wouldn't know whether or not he is 200lbs overweight. Either way, what would you like me to do about it?

Just to let everyone else know, I've known Dave Schwartz personally (through online and telephone conversations) for well over a year. Before that, I had heard of him and his Thorobrain software (which by the way, is STILL for sale through another party).

In that time, he has graciously given me a copy of HSH (an earlier version than is available today), and we have spent much time talking on the phone, exchanging ideas concerning our respective programs (remember, I still use my own home-grown software....what can I say, I wrote the darn thing...I want to use it!!! LOL)

Anyway, during those conversations, it was mostly Dave giving ME ideas about racing, not the other way around. Dave was always gracious with his time, and the kinds of information he shared with me about new ideas and projects he was working on. I've also heard from others that he is equally as giving with his time on the phone to support his HorseStreet software.

I used HSH for well over a month after I decided to put my own software on the shelf for a little while (for what seemed like the 100th time). I've done this from time to time to test out other software (mostly the stuff from BRIS such as AODDS, MultiCaps, AllWays, Neurax, plus an HTR free trial). I've always returned to my own home-grown software for obvious reasons (I wrote the damn thing, and can customize it anyway I want).

If I DID NOT have the skills to create a handicapping program that utilized what *I* wanted, I would have probably settled on HSH, for the sole reason that it is all inclusive. It covers pace, class, speed, workouts, impact values, race shapes, etc., etc.... It also allowed you to bring in the odds from the BRISnet toteboard so that it could analyze the current odds on its selections. It did way too many things to go over in this post. Much of what it does is covered nicely on Dave's website, http://www.horsestreet.com

The nice thing about Dave's software is that it does not FORCE itself down your throat. You can use or choose NOT to use certain features of the program. Is it perfect? Absolutely not....I haven't found a program that is (including my own).

Anyway, if you want to debate Dave further, I suggest you go to his website. Feel free to give his message board a workout.....and for Pete's sake, if you don't like what you see, DON'T BUY IT. That's the ultimate power of the consumer. No need to come on here and pick a fight for no reason. Makes one look silly.


==PA

[crowsage]

PaceAdvantage,

I'm appalled to be included in the group you have decided to recommend to people to place on their IGNORE list. While you don't accuse me of being Rune or Ed Hutchins because we have the same IPs, the context of your post strongly suggests it. Did it ever occur to you that the reason the same IPs could show up for different users is because of proxy servers? As a matter of fact, you have had a banner ad for one on your home page, so you might want to stop promoting it if users having the same IPs is of concern to you.

I would have appreciated an email from you before you saw fit to cast doubt on my credibility in public on this forum. You never sent me one, which doesn't say much for your own credibility as a web site owner. I do not know Rune or Ed Hutchins and my only agenda has been to get some information to help me arrive at a decision about spending money for HSH. As I posted earlier, mhrussell's post was the deciding factor for me. And for the record, had he not made his post, your post would have led me to the same conclusion, although for far different reasons.

You say that Dave's software "does not FORCE itself down your throat." It doesn't need to. As far as I can tell, you and a good many members of your community do that.

I'll be more than happy to opt out of this stilted atmosphere. I've got better things to do with my time.

[Dick Schmidt]

My, my. Someone got out on a day pass. Since PA tries to run a clean board (and does a very good job), I'll refrain from the "so's your Mother" type of responses and see what legit questions I can answer.

Rune. Still in there pitching with the loaded questions. If you want to provoke people, keep it up. If you are after information, this is not the way. Eventually people will file you under "crank" and put you in the ignore file. Now let's look at your questions:



Some fast questions:
Some slow answers:


1) What's up with the two statements? Did you try out HTR during the 14 day interval?

Yup.

2a) In the latter post, you give a weighty assessment of HTR. Assuming that you were telling the truth in both posts, do you feel that 14 days is enough time to become familiar with a program of that complexity and offer these assessments, particularly about its database?

I used to review programs for various magazines, and 14 days is more than enough to judge a program. I didn't say I bet with it, just that I used it. When you write for a living, giving a program review more than a day or two is more than you can afford. In this case, I was extremely familiar with the data presented and the theory behind the handicapping process. Pace handicapping using incremental velocity is not a new concept to me. I wrote the very first MPH program for Tom Brohamer on the little Sharp handheld computer and understand what HTR is up to. It is a pace program with very extensive modeling capability, running under DOS and using downloads from HDW. What more do I need to know?

2b) If you did test out HTR, how did you manage to make a sizeable database and/or use the other programs involved in order to be fully qualified to offer your assessments (e.g. did you subscribe to HTR to get the datafiles, borrow these datafiles from somebody else, etc.)?

I wasn't using the program, I was reviewing it. HDW is nice enough to let me use files when I am going over a program and HTR provided a bunch of data. I was looking at how it functioned, not trying to handicap with it.

3) I seem to remember hearing that you, at one time, had a financial interest in Michael Pizzola's Master Handicapper software, which you heartily endorsed, and for which you appeared at their seminars. Is this true?

I did seminars with Michael several times before I left racing for a few years. I liked TMH because it allowed me to see TPR numbers on all back lines and download data. I didn't much like the adjustments they used, but it worked fine. I never had any financial interest in the program.

4) I also seem to remember hearing that you had a financial interest in Thorobrain, which you recommended to everybody . Is this true?

I wrote a review of Thorobrain, which was published in "The Follow Up". It was a positive review, but I did not recommend it to everybody. It was a hard to use, cranky program that required special care and feeding. If it got it, then it produced winners and showed a nice profit. I never had any financial interest in the program. I bought the review copy.

5a) Do you have a financial interest in HSH?

Kinda got this financial interest thing on the brain, don't you? I have never had any financial interest in the program.

5b) If this is true, do you feel that you can give an impartial and objective review of HSH on a standalone basis and/or in comparison with other software?

Since it is NOT true, yes I feel I can be impartial, more or less. Dave is a friend of mine, but I wouldn't tell anyone that HSH worked if it didn't, nor would I say that it is a snap to use or for everybody. I use the software, I win with it. I played Del Mar for three weeks, then used the profits to take the family to Hawaii. I should be critical of software that performs like this?


You can claim that I have an attitude or claim I'm asking loaded questions, as you did in the thread to Mr. Schwartz, but I believe that the questions are fair, (as were the ones to Mr. Schwartz, which I wish he would have answered himself), even though they may not be viewable with rose-tinted glasses.

Nothing wrong with the questions, just the way you frame them. You come across as someone with an axe to grind. If this is not true, you might want to review your questions and see if you couldn't be just a touch more polite. Also remember that for you, this is a hobby, but for Dave (and soon again for me) this is a business that feeds our families. If you care to discuss this further, I'll be glad to send you my phone number and we'll talk.


Thanks for your time.

Your welcome.

Dick

[PaceAdvantage]

crowsage,

Sorry to appall you. I just find the coincidences too convenient at this point.

It is certainly true that proxy servers could account for the identical IP address, which is why I did not come to any conclusions. However, it is a rare thing when more than one user name pops up when an IP address search is run. You'd think that with all the AOL proxies, and all the safeweb.com proxies and anonymous.com proxies out there, there would be a ton of dual-user IP address hits. However, that is not the case. You, and Rune and Ed Hutchins are the exception to the rule....and your timing is also impeccable when it comes to the current tone of notes being posted on the board.

In closing, it was you who registered on the board. I did not recruit you to register, and I did not force you to register. I did not reveal your IP address, and nobody knows your real identity. Therefore, I do not owe you an e-mail prior to any action.

If you were truly interested in making an informed decision about HSH, you would have went to the HSH board and posed some questions. You haven't, which speaks volumes. In closing, you pass judgement on my credibility based on my actions. I think my credibility speaks for itself when one looks at this message board, and the quality of the posts and the users.



==PA


PS. I have no control over whatever ads appear on the website. They are part of a Web Linking service. I allow ads to be shown for various sites (I do have control over very general content, but not specific), and they in turn agree to show ads from my site. All these ads pop up at random.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by crowsage
I would have appreciated an email from you before you saw fit to cast doubt on my credibility in public on this forum.

BTB, how does one obtain credibility with only 3 or 4 posts? I have never seen the name crowsage on any other horseracing message board. So, just in case I actually have ruined your crowsage moniker by wrongly defaming your fine name, I think it's safe to say you could easily retire 'crowsage' and come up with a substitute real quick.....


Sorry, but that's the way I see things.....

==PA


PS. stilted atmosphere.......LOL....that's a GOOD one!!!

[PaceAdvantage]

One last note....as much as our new found friends (and you know who you are) want us all to believe that they are the good guys looking out for the "unsuspecting public" when it comes to expensive handicapping programs........

I in turn can't sit back and watch 3 or 4 new user names being registered in a 24 hour period under the same IP addresses.....ALL with the same MO (ie., Dave is BAD, Me not buying HSH now after notes seen on board!)....WITHOUT saying something to the loyal users of this message board. If I stood back and said NOTHING about what I see going on behind the scenes, I would be doing a huge injustice.....

And as a final note about Dave.....he uses his REAL name whenever he writes a note....he posts his REAL telephone number and REAL address on his website....he will talk to ANYONE who calls him up with questions about his software.....

crowsage, you want to talk about credibility while hiding behind some made up name and some phony proxy address (which by the way, you share DOWN TO THE LAST NUMBER with Rune....that's a tough coincidence to backpedal from...even anonymous proxy servers change the last couple of numbers).


==PA

[crowsage]

PaceAdvantage,

You're absolutely wrong about me being either Rune or Ed Hutchins. It is in fact a coincidence that we have the same IP. I am no more in cahoots with them than I am with you.

You assume I have never been to the HSH site. I assure you I have. In fact, I have even spoken with Schwartz over the phone. I strongly encourage you to refrain from making accusations you cannot substantiate. It is unfair. I understand you're attempting to maintain a certain standard-although I'm not clear what that is-but jumping to unwarranted conclusions because of timing is not a good way to proceed. Does mhrussell deserve to be lumped among the group of those to IGNORE because of his earlier post? I don't think so. Yet his post could be considered a powerful impeachment of the hype and grandiosity surrounding HSH.

I asked questions. You didn't like them. I made no accusations and did not besmirch anyone's character, which is more than I can say for you and Schmidt.

I looked for a way to remove myself from your membership roster but did not find it. Please do me a favor and delete me from it.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by crowsage
It is in fact a coincidence that we have the same IP.
I think you'd find most people would consider that highly unlikely, especially given the timeframe and subject matter being discussed.


You assume I have never been to the HSH site. I assure you I have.
As crowsage??


I strongly encourage you to refrain from making accusations you cannot substantiate.
But I DID substantiate them.


Does mhrussell deserve to be lumped among the group of those to IGNORE because of his earlier post? I don't think so.
Neither do I. That's why I didn't lump him.


Yet his post could be considered a powerful impeachment of the hype and grandiosity surrounding HSH.
Really? I didn't get that at all. What I got was that mhrussel (like myself), likes to use home-grown stuff. Let me quote mhrussell if I may:

Will I be buying their product [HSH] anytime soon? No. Not because I question the soundness of the program or the integrity of the people involved, but rather I already have a computer tool that I have developed myself that is comprehensive and meets my criteria of being "good enough".

Hardly an impeachment of hype and grandiosity, wouldn't you agree?? Although I do like your colorful choice of words.


I asked questions. You didn't like them.
I don't think I've passed any judgement on the two notes you've posted that have asked questions. One was about the power handicapping factors, and the other was about Dick Schmidt and if he had any financial interest in the programs he's commented on. Both of your questions were quite valid, and I have no problem with them.


I looked for a way to remove myself from your membership roster but did not find it. Please do me a favor and delete me from it.
No reason to delete you. Besides, if I do, No Day Job will make fun of me.....


==PA

[Topcat]

I'm usually in lurk mode here but the nature of the statements and questions coming from Rune and George compel me to make a comment or two.

Rune: On the off chance that English is not your first language, let me point out the obvious. You are making assumptive statements in your questions. Sort of like saying, "When did you stop beating your wife?"
It would be be more genuine if you merely made declarative statements and expressed your opinion.

And George: It's hard to figure you out. My best guess is that you were another person burned by the near Nirvana promises of Sartin. Or maybe jsut a little ticked off.

But Schmidtz weight? Sorry no correlation there-Same as asking Luciano Pavorotti "Why if he is really a good singer and wealthy he doesn't use his money to do something about his weight?". Sadly your comments comes across as an attempt at an insult and instead sound juvenile and bitter.

As far as software being forced down anyone's throat-logging on to PA's board does not require you to purchase and use anyone's software-or even read about it. PA's board is one of only two horse racing boards that I will bother to read-he runs a great board. There are plenty of flame war boards going on if you want that.

Gentlemen I know none of us are perfect (and I'm probably leading that parade) but I've got to tell you that your comments are much more of a commentary on yourselves than on Dave Schwartz or on Dick Schmidt.

OK so what's my bias: I think that in the handicapping world world full of charlatans and foolishness that Dave Schwartz and HSH is-as we say in fishing- a keeper.

Do I have HSH: yes, do I have a financial interest in the program-no. Am I Dave Schwartz: No.

Have I used other programs: Yes, many and I have no financial interest in any of them. Some are actually decent,some are terrible and almost all of them were or are hyped more than HSH.

BTW, the current Thoroughbrain program has little resemblance to the original program that Dave Schwartz wrote. I believe it was rewritten (at least twice) by a gentleman named Manhal Shukar (a Texan no less) . Unless I miss my mark Dave Scwartz has no financial interest in it any more as I think Ron and Lois Summers ) have th marketing rights for it. I could be wrong in that.

There is a link for Thoroughbrain on the HDW site if anyone is curious.

[Ed Hutchens]

ok I admit it. I am Rune and crowsage and also Frank and kat and several others. You are too clever for me, PA. I respect you for that.

I'll go away now and sorry for bothering your excellent horse racing message board.

Sorry.

[Rune]

PA, PA, PA......

There you go again, pointing fingers and accusing on flimsy evidence and your own paranoia that everybody is out to destroy you and your precious racing forum. Oh, you don't think you're paranoid? With your vBB security settings dialed up as high as they'll go? The way you point fingers based on an IP address, without bothering to do any research? Of course you're not paranoid. That would imply that you had a flaw.

I use two public proxy servers: Safeweb (www.safeweb.com) and Anonymizer (www.anonymizer.com). I use proxies because I don't want web site owners, referrers, and adbots in my business. If you used your vBB logs better, you'd know that I have many failed attempts at member-only functions. That's because Safeweb doesn't allow cookies.

Do these two IP's look familiar to you? They should. They are the only two IP's you've ever seen me from.

64.124.150.136
168.143.112.8

The first is Safeweb's and the second is Anonymizer's. And each is the only IP that its respective company uses for the proxy server. It's a little like Microsoft. They own tens of thousands of IP BLOCKS, but when you surf to www.microsoft.com, you originally go to 207.46.197.100, from where you're redirected elsewhere.

For a person who thinks he's so net-wise and who claims to be a proficient programmer, you know precious little about the internet.

So let's see here. I'm Rune, CrowSage, and Ed Hutchens (none of whom signed up in the past week). I'm from Las Vegas. Hey! That makes me Frank and Kat, like "Ed Hutchens" said I was (I'm not even going to comment on how low somebody has to be to stoop to that), and I'd be Lefty, too, because he comes from Las Vegas. Oh---and I'm also the other 575,000 users of Anonymizer and the other 1,500,000 users of Safeweb. I'm a busy man...busy, busy, busy.

I love this little ditty of yours.

QUOTE]Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
I in turn can't sit back and watch 3 or 4 new user names being registered in a 24 hour period under the same IP addresses.....ALL with the same MO (ie., Dave is BAD, Me not buying HSH now after notes seen on board!)....WITHOUT saying something to the loyal users of this message board. If I stood back and said NOTHING about what I see going on behind the scenes, I would be doing a huge injustice.....
==PA [/QUOTE]

It has such a touching quality to it. It'd make a wonderful soap opera.

Which four users were those? Ed Hutchens has been here since at least 8-5 when he made his first post (but after his last message, I don't even give him credibility for being anything but another tool in your defense of Dave Schwartz). Crowsage appeared yesterday 9-6. I arrived on 8-18. So which three or four people who have posted dirt about Dave Schwartz arrived on the same day, PA?

Oh. Caught you making stuff up again, did we?

And besides that, we only have your word to go on as to what the IP's even were. Just like we're all supposed to believe that "Ed Hutchens" and Crowsage are supposed to be me playing games. Because they'll all kiss up to you like they did when you were called for posting itm_atw's personal information and a picture of his house on a public forum. Like they did when you tossed Frank and Kat and Max Brown or whoever out into the cold, saying that you got an email from them, then having your stooges all sing praise to the heavens to you, and not giving the banned a chance to defend themselves. Like you did when you were called for deleting five or six of Carl's posts. Like they kissed up to you when you banned how many others from here or censored how many other posts?

And you wonder why people like to screw with you and your forum here. It's because you're a self-important arrogant, immature user who power trips in his own little world. Yes, arrogant. That's so documented here that it doesn't need to be illustrated.

Oh, you don't think you're immature? Do you think you're a man? A man wouldn't post the personal information and a picture of a person's house on the internet. A man wouldn't post email (Frank or Kat or whoever, plus others) that was sent in confidentiality to him on the internet. A man wouldn't run around pointing fingers at people based on flimsy evidence, without substantiating the evidence. But an inconsiderate person with the maturity of a child would do all of those gross violations of netiquette and courtesy on his own medium, safe in the knoweldge that nobody could remove them or challenge him, and comfortable in the fact that he could control the aftermath, and safe in the knowledge that everybody will agree with him---because it's his ball, and if they don't, they might not get to play.

And the sad part is that nobody cares. They'll all bow down and worship you for having the only good horse racing forum on the internet. That's their shortcoming, not mine. But you can't control what they think. All the Germans worshipped Hitler too---in public.

Dick Schmidt. So you used HTR from 8-2 to 8-16 huh? Too bad you and I both know that your statement is almost impossible. I led you into that one.

Dave Schwartz: I have an agenda against you for a reason. It has to do with a late friend of mine who used Thorobrain. You probably remember his name: It's John Hodges.

That's all for me. I'll leave PA and his this-forum-only friends, supporters, and clones to act out their little melodrama here with all the adversaries and their clones. And while you center on your universe here, I'm going back to HTR and mostly to real life and my business, part-time teaching, and my daughter and new granddaughter. Yeah, real people. With real bodies. Not products of somebody's imagination or paranoia.

As Nero Wolfe would have said: "Pfui".

[Tom]

Bye bye.

[PaceAdvantage]

Rune,

After quickly reading through your BS diatribe, I would like to point out that I NEVER posted a picture of ANYONE'S house ANYWHERE on the internet....

As to whatever else you wrote, it sounds like you were bursting at the seams just waiting for an opening to pour out whatever crap comes into your head.

To all the rest, I simply say.....whatever......


==PA

[The Judge]

I tried to stay out but I can't. I was one of the first group of people to visit and to post on this board. This was before registration. Rune this is a sophisticated board. Ask how many favorites did Pay Day ride at Churchill Downs in the month of May and someone will tell you. They have data bases that go back to Ben-Hur.They write their own handicapping programs.

The point is, why would a sophisticated handicapper such as Dave say that he got a subset that hit 40% winners unless it was true? Who would he fool and why? No one on this board would by his program on that statement alone.

Mike Warren wouldn't come on this board and say he will give us 40% winners,35% exactas, why, because he knows better. He knows we know better. Haven't you been reading the posts? Hell these folks are good. To be on line and to use programs show some form of being sophisticated right there.

A person put up a post what type of program should I buy. This person put up guidelines for what he wanted it wasn't a neophyte question. No one said , buy my program . They know that wouldn't fly.

We are not babes in the woods. We don't need your protection. Open discussion, criticism, arguments have always been tolerated on this board but this is off the scale.

[GR1@HTR]

A single factor that picks 40% winners over a 5000 race sample is impossible. I'm not saying that Dave S didn't get those results and I'm not calling him a liar. Just saying it is impossible to create a program that using a single factor (power rating, consensus fig or whatever) to select winners in every race without skipping one. Now it is possilbe to create a system that will look at 50,000 or so races and select 5,000 races to pick 40% winners. That can be done for sure....But 5000/5000 @40% is impossible. An individual(human being) handicapping and using different factors for different race conditions might have a chance.

[The Judge]

See I told people on this board were sophisticated.

Dave explained to Hurrikane the procedure he use to get the 40% and that's good enough for me. Dave said what he did, the rules and the program are his. It turned a small profit, he doesn't use it. It all sounds so simple. I assume people with his program and a large data base would get similar results. So why say it if not true.

[Dick Schmidt]

GR1,

Read carefully. Dave didn't use a single factor.

Dick

[Dave Schwartz]

GR1,

It was by no means a "single factor." In fact, it was a 8 different systems, each system using 16 factors (weighted), and some of those factors actually contained as many as 34 other factors... In fact, some of THOSE factors contained several factors.

And thank you for giving me the benfit of the doubt.

The funny thing was that when I first brought it up, I mentioned it in passing. It held no real significance for me because I did not believe that the system had done much more than start with the "best" horse (which is usualy the favorite) and "pick a few fleas" (as Druther would call them.

It was never meant as "See how great this software is?" But someone challenged me about the probability... as they should have. They were right. The numbers did not add up.

Anyway, thanks again for keeping an open mind.

Regards,
Dave Schwartz


PS: I agree that there is no single factor that will produce 40% (or even 30%) winners.

[Rune]

Originally posted by The Judge
I tried to stay out but I can't. I was one of the first group of people to visit and to post on this board. This was before registration. Rune this is a sophisticated board.

And that's why you have a total of 10 posts here since the board opened, right?

You're correct about one thing. There are a lot of good people here. It's too bad that the one who heads it likes to play mind games with people and hasn't the maturity to let something drop.

Some people don't think that emailing them a picture of their house (I'll stand corrected on saying that it was posted on the net for the time being), and having a friend visit them is fun or games. And people with Bipolar Disorder (manic depression) don't find it amusing when somebody makes fun of their weight, which is a side effect of the medication needed to treat the disorder. Because on the very remote chance that frankkatus isn't you, you certainly either put him up to it or fed him all the fuel you could for his war. Either way, it makes you guilty.

And you'll probably sleep comfortably tonight knowing that your "fun and games" almost cost a person her life. Oh, of course. I'm making this all up. So bet me a few thou on it. Frank will produce the hospital records, and we'll send the money we win to United Way or Children International.

Laugh some more about it. But don't change the truth. All your legion of supporters can hail you to the high heavens here in print. But you can't change what they really think.

[PaceAdvantage]

You're twisting facts again. It wasn't a picture of his house. It was a satellite photo of the area of his neighborhood that I got on globexplorer.com. Hardly as dastardly as you make it out to be. I'm the only one that can't have a little fun in cyberspace, eh?

a) I am not frankkatus
b) I don't know who that is or care
c) everything he said was ALREADY AVAILABLE ON THE NET because of the e-mails YOU (or someone you know) PUBLICLY POSTED from the frank/kat saga.

Since a, b and c are true....that means I had nothing to do with anyone causing anyone who is Bipolar (real or fictional) to almost die. And IF this person is real, they probably shouldn't be fooling around on such a board as they were. You should know what you're getting into when you go over there.

You sir are way out there in left field....and WAY off topic.


==PA

PS. I thought you said you were through here?

PPS. The person in question who got the satellite picture of their neighborhood e-mailed to them was ITM. BTW, this was over ONE YEAR AGO.

[Tom]

What part of Bye Bye don't you understand.
If you want to be a jerk, there is a board for that already.
This isn't it.
BTW, your two sob stories are so unbelievable....
your poor friend handicapped himselve to death.
Poor Kat took sleeping pills.
Are you familiar with the term "thinning out the herd?"

ESAD, my friend.
Come back home. I'll be waiting there for you.
We try to behave here.

Tom 537

[Dick Schmidt]

Tom,

Think of it as evolution in action.

Dick