Great News! U.S. Won’t Recover Lost Jobs Until March 2020 At Current Pace

[andymays]

http://blogs.investors.com/capitalhill/index.php/home/35-politicsinvesting/2128-us-wont-recover-lost-jobs-until-march-2020-at-current-pace

Excerpt:

The bottom line: It’s quite possible that the next recession will hit before the U.S. returns to old employment highs.

*The Labor Department said employers may have cut 366,000 jobs more than previously reported in the year through March 2010. A final estimate will be issued in February. That suggests job losses were deeper than expected in 2009 and/or early 2010 hiring was weaker than previously expected. Both would suggest an even-longer return to full employment.

[GameTheory]

Except that our recovery will eventually accelerate because the electorate won't stand for the current rate. They'll keep throwing the bums out until there is a group that will allow the recovery to happen.

Notice I said "allow", because that's all they have to do. Just create stable, sensible rules and reasonable tax rates and get out of the way. No real recovery can possibly happen until after the election because the current administration and Congress refuses to create a stable situation for businesses to operate. They've effectively created a national hiring freeze.

[Let's Roll]

2020 is early according to my estimates. A timeline I created does not have a job recovery until well after the second Eric Holder administration, in 2032. :eek:

[mostpost]

If you read the article, you will see that most of the jobs being lost now are in state and local government. Wasn't that exactly what you guys were looking for? Cut the size of Government? Of course we are cutting its size to the point that it will not be able to function.
Another area in which we are losing jobs is teachers. Another part of the conservative plan. Make the electorate stupid and you will win every election.
How many of the jobs lost in the private sector were lost because of outsourcing or closing a plant and moving it to Indonesia or Mexico? Companies survived and did quite well before outsourcing. But then we entered the era of greed. Now it is no longer good enough to make a billion dollar profit. Now you need to make a ten Billion dollar profit. :bang:

[boxcar]

Another area in which we are losing jobs is teachers. Another part of the conservative plan. Make the electorate stupid and you will win every election.

There you go projecting again! Liberals have a mortal lock on turning out D.D.U. grads. They have the process down to rocket science-like precision. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[mostpost]

There you go projecting again! Liberals have a mortal lock on turning out D.D.U. grads. They have the process down to rocket science-like precision. :rolleyes:

Boxcar
Disagreeing with you doesn't mean someone is stupid. It means we're smart.
Congratulaions on once again ignoring the substance of a post and just being insulting. :rolleyes: yourself.

[johnhannibalsmith]

If you read the article, you will see that most of the jobs being lost now are in state and local government. Wasn't that exactly what you guys were looking for? Cut the size of Government?...

Or you could look at it as the inevitable end result of trying (or nonchalantly allowing with good intentions) to grow government beyond its legitimate usefulness.

[boxcar]

Disagreeing with you doesn't mean someone is stupid. It means we're smart.
Congratulaions on once again ignoring the substance of a post and just being insulting. :rolleyes: yourself.

Remember, Mosty...you guys are on the LEFT. Only fools tilt toward the left because they always, always, always come down on the wrong side of moral issues and, therefore, by extension on political ones. ;)

Boxcar
P.S. In case you're wondering...this doesn't make you smart. :lol: :lol:

P.P.S. And put the brakes on your phony, self-righteous indignation. You're the one who insulted conservatives and what you "think" we want in terms of education. Here's what I want: The federal government out of education. Let the states handle it.

[mostpost]

Remember, Mosty...you guys are on the LEFT. Only fools tilt toward the left because they always, always, always come down on the wrong side of moral issues and, therefore, by extension on political ones. ;)

Boxcar
P.S. In case you're wondering...this doesn't make you smart. :lol: :lol:

P.P.S. And put the brakes on your phony, self-righteous indignation. You're the one who insulted conservatives and what you "think" we want in terms of education. Here's what I want: The federal government out of education. Let the states handle it.
it is at least silly, if not dumb to judge someone's morality on the basis of where people sat in the french legislature 220 years ago.
re: your P.S. My stand on moral issues doesn't make me smart. My intelligence effects my stand on moral issues.
re: your P.P.S. So, you're opposed to No Child Left Behind? As long as some states are rich and some are poor, there is a place for the Federal government in education. The same as their is a place for the state as long as some districts are not as affluent as others. To the extent possible, policy should be decided at the local level.

[boxcar]

it is at least silly, if not dumb to judge someone's morality on the basis of where people sat in the french legislature 220 years ago.

And it's even dumber for you to think that is the basis of my observation, especially when I have written extensively on this issue from a biblical perspective. (However, you do have to hand it to the French. They finally got something right -- even though they don't know how they did it. :lol: Chalk that up to divine providence. God truly does give grace to drunks and fools. :lol: :lol: )

re: your P.S. My stand on moral issues doesn't make me smart.

Then you need to do a word study on the term "stupid" in its various forms in the bible. Who knows? You might actually learn something. :lol:

My intelligence effects my stand on moral issues.

That ain't sayin' much. :rolleyes: Is your great intellectual capacity right up there with Pelosi who thinks unemployment checks are a great way to stimulate the economy? Or who thought that it was a great idea to pass ObaminationCare without first reading the legislation? Or is it up to the level of Biden who thinks the measure of one's patriotism is his willingness and eagerness to be taxed to the hilt? Or is it up to the level of the Pseudo-Intellectual-in-Chief who thinks there are 57 states in the union, or doesn't know which states border his home state of Illinois, or who doesn't know how to pronounce "corpsman", etc., etc., etc.? But...to be perfectly fair and since nearly everything is relative, you guys on the Left could indeed be smart -- when compared to a caterpillar...perhaps. :lol:

re: your P.P.S. So, you're opposed to No Child Left Behind?

Hey...score one for the Gipper. :ThmbUp: Did you figure that out all by yourself, or did you have to consult first with your comrades over on the DU? :D


As long as some states are rich and some are poor, there is a place for the Federal government in education. The same as their is a place for the state as long as some districts are not as affluent as others. To the extent possible, policy should be decided at the local level.

No! To the extent possible, the feds should keep its condescending snout out of local affairs and...its greedy, money-hungry fingers out of my pockets.

Boxcar

[fast4522]

There is one and only one way to correct this problem, slaughter the democrats November 2. Get rid of the filth and put forward men and women who actually have done something.

[Tom]

If you read the article, you will see that most of the jobs being lost now are in state and local government. Wasn't that exactly what you guys were looking for? Cut the size of Government? Of course we are cutting its size to the point that it will not be able to function.

Octo-man....these jobs were celebrated by the left when we tried to tell everyone that they were temporary.

So far, The Big-O and his band of losers have failed. Dig it.

Make the electorate stupid and you will win every election.

We can't ALL be democrats.

[Native Texan III]

If you read the article, you will see that most of the jobs being lost now are in state and local government. Wasn't that exactly what you guys were looking for? Cut the size of Government? Of course we are cutting its size to the point that it will not be able to function.
Another area in which we are losing jobs is teachers. Another part of the conservative plan. Make the electorate stupid and you will win every election.
How many of the jobs lost in the private sector were lost because of outsourcing or closing a plant and moving it to Indonesia or Mexico? Companies survived and did quite well before outsourcing. But then we entered the era of greed. Now it is no longer good enough to make a billion dollar profit. Now you need to make a ten Billion dollar profit. :bang:

A staggering 49,800 drop in teaching jobs at the local government level means that some 1.5 million kid's future education is now directly effected. We cannot afford this loss when out competitors are churning out top scientists and engineers at alarming rates to take even more jobs from the US.

Charles Pierce will soon have to rewrite and dumb down his book" Idiot America - How Stupidity became a Virtue in the Land of the Free".

[fast4522]

A staggering 49,800 drop in teaching jobs at the local government level means that some 1.5 million kid's future education is now directly effected. We cannot afford this loss when out competitors are churning out top scientists and engineers at alarming rates to take even more jobs from the US.

Charles Pierce will soon have to rewrite and dumb down his book" Idiot America - How Stupidity became a Virtue in the Land of the Free".

We can educate our kids and take care of our seniors without taking care of all those who have not paid into the system, some programs will have to be sliced out completely. Sending moneys to Washington so they can skim what they want before sending it back to the states with attachments is not what each State needs. Too many people walking around the beltway wearing $400 shoes because of it.

[fast4522]

Octo-man....these jobs were celebrated by the left when we tried to tell everyone that they were temporary.

So far, The Big-O and his band of losers have failed. Dig it.



We can't ALL be democrats.

I would not stand in front of that androgenic skumbag.

[Tom]

The fed has no business in our educational system - that is local territory.
Secure the borders and shut up.

[pandy]

If you read the article, you will see that most of the jobs being lost now are in state and local government. Wasn't that exactly what you guys were looking for? Cut the size of Government? Of course we are cutting its size to the point that it will not be able to function.
Another area in which we are losing jobs is teachers. Another part of the conservative plan. Make the electorate stupid and you will win every election.
How many of the jobs lost in the private sector were lost because of outsourcing or closing a plant and moving it to Indonesia or Mexico? Companies survived and did quite well before outsourcing. But then we entered the era of greed. Now it is no longer good enough to make a billion dollar profit. Now you need to make a ten Billion dollar profit. :bang:

I lost two jobs from outsourcing and that is one area where I disagree strongly with most conservative and Republican politicians, I agree with you there. Bush made is clear that he would not do anything to stop outsourcing, he said that if you lose your job you should go back to school and learn a new trade. Obama said that he would do something to stop outsourcing, but of course he hasn't.

[Tom]

Pandy, Clinton started it with NAFTA. Bush encouraged it, Obama ignored it.
We have to face the fact that for 18 years, the POTUS has not lifted a finger to help the American citizens. Well, maybe they have lifted one finger...:rolleyes:

I hold no doubts that all three will burn in Hell and I celebrate that fact.

[jonnielu]

If you read the article, you will see that most of the jobs being lost now are in state and local government. Wasn't that exactly what you guys were looking for? Cut the size of Government? Of course we are cutting its size to the point that it will not be able to function.
Another area in which we are losing jobs is teachers. Another part of the conservative plan. Make the electorate stupid and you will win every election.
How many of the jobs lost in the private sector were lost because of outsourcing or closing a plant and moving it to Indonesia or Mexico? Companies survived and did quite well before outsourcing. But then we entered the era of greed. Now it is no longer good enough to make a billion dollar profit. Now you need to make a ten Billion dollar profit. :bang:

It seems with the election of Obama, the evidence is in that the electorate could not get more stupid.

jdl

[fast4522]

The majority want to trust, now most feel betrayed.

[ArlJim78]

the problem with education is we've been getting stupid for a long time now despite spending through the nose on education. teachers unions have bought off the Democrats, that's why they receive the bulk of the stimulus, and that special emergency bill just last month. no group or company spends more buying political favors. they are not losing their jobs despite the horrible effect the NEA has had on our educational performance. but like any union, it serves its own members needs first and foremost, at the same time they bankrupt their employers and turn out ever inferior products.
a complete national disgrace.

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/wp-content/uploads/coulson-achievement-21.jpg



http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/wp-content/uploads/Coulson-Cato-PS-Enroll-Employ-2010-s2.jpg

[pandy]

I'm not a big fan of Nafta, Clinton, Bush, or Obama, so I agree with you Tom.

[boxcar]

[QUOTE=ArlJim78]the problem with education is we've been getting stupid for a long time now despite spending through the nose on education. teachers unions have bought off the Democrats, that's why they receive the bulk of the stimulus, and that special emergency bill just last month. no group or company spends more buying political favors. they are not losing their jobs despite the horrible effect the NEA has had on our educational performance. but like any union, it serves its own members needs first and foremost, at the same time they bankrupt their employers and turn out ever inferior products.
a complete national disgrace.

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/wp-content/uploads/coulson-achievement-21.jpg

Am I reading that first chart correctly? Seems like the test results are a wee, tiny bit out of proportion with the spendin'. :rolleyes: Oh...but wait...what the libs will tell us is that this proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that we need to to spend even more to bring those scores higher. :D

Boxcar

[Tom]

Looks evident to me that we are not spending our money wisely.
Perhaps we are buying the wrong teachers?

Maybe one from the esteemed left aisle can explain how, given the chart above, more money thrown at the problem will correct it?

Please. Give me 5 minutes get my popcorn.

[slewis]

Here's what I want: The federal government out of education. Let the states handle it.


Well it's a documented fact that you know NOTHING about economics, now your're showing your ignorance regarding education.

I friend of mine relocated to Charlestown WV 10 years ago from affluent Westchester NY. (which has a top tier school system).

After having his kids in school in WV for 7 months, he decided to check their progress vs kids back in NY. He realized very quickly that, not only were they not progressing at the same rate, but they were learning LITTLE if nothing!

He started asking questions in the community only to learn how poorly educated the teachers were and how unimportant education was perceived among the average citizens.

He attended the next town hall meeting and brought up the serious problems with the school system. He suggested raising everyone's property taxes a small percentage to attract better teachers, and stressed how the kids future's were at stake.

He told me after he stated this, he thought he would need a police escort to get out alive.
One guy screamed at him, "take you and your kids and move back to NY, we dont need no fancy education here, our kids are just fine"!

Sure you want to leave education strictly to the states Boxcar?....Or, are ALL the states on the same page regarding education and this story is just an anomaly?

I say better have the Dept of Education monitor the standards on a nationwide level.

[Tom]

I say let the GD Fed protect the border and fix the economy and leave education to the states. The Fed has NO business interfering. They have so far shown just how great they are at it. :lol:

[JustRalph]

It's called personal responsibility. Somehow you don't get that from your anecdote? You are a smart guy........ what these guys are saying is that the States should be responsible for their own. If the WV's don't want to pay for it........ they live with it. End of story.

You would never ever think of imposing your brand of culture on another country, would you? But you are against allowing the States to decide for themselves when it comes to Education? Don't impose your expectations for education on those who aren't willing to pay inflated prices for education via Unions and more.

Btw, John Kennedy went to WV during his Presidential campaign and promised to "save them" tons of money have been thrown at Appalachia and very little has changed. Your buddy was being Quixotic in the name Altruism. Noble maybe.....practical ........not so much



Well it's a documented fact that you know NOTHING about economics, now your're showing your ignorance regarding education.

I friend of mine relocated to Charlestown WV 10 years ago from affluent Westchester NY. (which has a top tier school system).

After having his kids in school in WV for 7 months, he decided to check their progress vs kids back in NY. He realized very quickly that, not only were they not progressing at the same rate, but they were learning LITTLE if nothing!

He started asking questions in the community only to learn how poorly educated the teachers were and how unimportant education was perceived among the average citizens.

He attended the next town hall meeting and brought up the serious problems with the school system. He suggested raising everyone's property taxes a small percentage to attract better teachers, and stressed how the kids future's were at stake.

He told me after he stated this, he thought he would need a police escort to get out alive.
One guy screamed at him, "take you and your kids and move back to NY, we dont need no fancy education here, our kids are just fine"!

Sure you want to leave education strictly to the states Boxcar?....Or, are ALL the states on the same page regarding education and this story is just an anomaly?

I say better have the Dept of Education monitor the standards on a nationwide level.

[boxcar]

Well it's a documented fact that you know NOTHING about economics, now your're showing your ignorance regarding education.

I friend of mine relocated to Charlestown WV 10 years ago from affluent Westchester NY. (which has a top tier school system).

After having his kids in school in WV for 7 months, he decided to check their progress vs kids back in NY. He realized very quickly that, not only were they not progressing at the same rate, but they were learning LITTLE if nothing!

He started asking questions in the community only to learn how poorly educated the teachers were and how unimportant education was perceived among the average citizens.

He attended the next town hall meeting and brought up the serious problems with the school system. He suggested raising everyone's property taxes a small percentage to attract better teachers, and stressed how the kids future's were at stake.

He told me after he stated this, he thought he would need a police escort to get out alive.
One guy screamed at him, "take you and your kids and move back to NY, we dont need no fancy education here, our kids are just fine"!

Sure you want to leave education strictly to the states Boxcar?....Or, are ALL the states on the same page regarding education and this story is just an anomaly?

I say better have the Dept of Education monitor the standards on a nationwide level.

The Feds can't monitor the halls in Congress, let alone the education system in the U.S. The graphs posted earlier say it all. What a scathing condemnation on federally funded/controlled education! It would be laughable, if weren't so sad and pathetic. The feds can't find it's butt even with you giving them your helping hand to guide theirs. :rolleyes:

And despite what you think I don't know, I do know you should have said "little if anything" not "LITTLE if nothing!" Were you a product of a federally funded education system? :lol: :lol:

Boxcar

[jballscalls]

this article says private sector jobs are growing and public sector ones are shrinking. isn't that what the con's want??

more private jobs created in 2010 than during the entire previous administration.

i'm sure this is bad news though, one thing i've learned about the left and the right, they can spin anything to look bad or good, depending on what side their on.


http://newsjunkiepost.com/2010/10/08/its-official-more-private-sector-jobs-created-in-2010-than-during-entire-bush-years/

[mostpost]

The Feds can't monitor the halls in Congress, let alone the education system in the U.S. The graphs posted earlier say it all. What a scathing condemnation on federally funded/controlled education! It would be laughable, if weren't so sad and pathetic. The feds can't find it's butt even with you giving them your helping hand to guide theirs. :rolleyes:

And despite what you think I don't know, I do know you should have said "little if anything" not "LITTLE if nothing!" Were you a product of a federally funded education system? :lol: :lol:

Boxcar
What the graph proves is how gullible you guys are. The increase in the cost of providing an education is about the same as the increase in the cost of everything else. In 1970 gas was 36 cents a gallon. Yesterday I paid $2.99. A stamp was 6 cents; now it's 44. Bread was 44 cents; today its over $3.00

Everything is five times or more what it was in 1970, so it stands to reason that the cost of an educaton would be five times or more what it was then.

You seem to think 5 times the cost should equal five times the improvement. But the scales are totally different. An individual may learn to read five times better than he did previously, (Although he would have to be a real underacheiver to begin with) but if you take a total population in which many are already proficient, progress will be measured in small increments.
In other words, if the average reading score is one year above grade level nationwide, it would take an increase to five years above grade level to achieve a 500% increase. There is a human limit to such things.

[mostpost]

Well it's a documented fact that you know NOTHING about economics, now your're showing your ignorance regarding education.

I friend of mine relocated to Charlestown WV 10 years ago from affluent Westchester NY. (which has a top tier school system).

After having his kids in school in WV for 7 months, he decided to check their progress vs kids back in NY. He realized very quickly that, not only were they not progressing at the same rate, but they were learning LITTLE if nothing!

He started asking questions in the community only to learn how poorly educated the teachers were and how unimportant education was perceived among the average citizens.

He attended the next town hall meeting and brought up the serious problems with the school system. He suggested raising everyone's property taxes a small percentage to attract better teachers, and stressed how the kids future's were at stake.

He told me after he stated this, he thought he would need a police escort to get out alive.
One guy screamed at him, "take you and your kids and move back to NY, we dont need no fancy education here, our kids are just fine"!

Sure you want to leave education strictly to the states Boxcar?....Or, are ALL the states on the same page regarding education and this story is just an anomaly?

I say better have the Dept of Education monitor the standards on a nationwide level.
What happened here is that he embarrassed those people. They are probably well aware that their schools are not up to par. But they do not want a stranger coming into town and telling them how to run their business. Also, what seems to him like a small increase may be very significant to the townspeople.
What should he have done? Join the Parent Teacher Association or its equivalent. Join and listen. Then listen some more. Develop honest relationships. Then make suggestions to those people and ask them for their advice. Learn what can be done and what can't. And never think any parent doesn't want the best for their children.

[slewis]

It's called personal responsibility. Somehow you don't get that from your anecdote? You are a smart guy........ what these guys are saying is that the States should be responsible for their own. If the WV's don't want to pay for it........ they live with it. End of story.



Oh come on now.

Ralph, and everyone, for crying out loud.

In this situation, you guys are forgetting the most important part of this debate:

THE KIDS.

Just because Ma and Pa in Whereversville...could care less if their kids get a good education compared to Richville USA, DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT.

It has nothing to do with personable responsibility here.

The Federal courts will speak for those who are not old enough to be heard yet.

The Fed Govt WILL CONTINUE TO MONITOR AND OVERSEE education on a national level.

And regarding that stupid graph that was posted..... You can post ANYTHING inflation-related vs education progress and over a 20 yr period it will look like we are a country of idiots.

That graph is a joke. Heck, why not graph the price of a washer-dryer or car vs SAT scores? How ridiculous.

[slewis]

Looks evident to me that we are not spending our money wisely.
Perhaps we are buying the wrong teachers?

Maybe one from the esteemed left aisle can explain how, given the chart above, more money thrown at the problem will correct it?

Please. Give me 5 minutes get my popcorn.


Tom,

I'm suprised at you....

What would the graph look like, if graphed similarly as above, of the Sat scores of the top 50 students at say, U of Penn (or any Ivy League school) vs the cost of that education over that period of time?

Are the 50 top students today much brighter than say, 1970?

Of course not, some are, some are not..... But I'll bet the cost of a semester at Brown University (pick any you choose) has gone up a bit (:lol: ) and would reflect the same curve you summize as educational failure.


Silly graph.

[pandy]

I don't see how continuously increasing the cost of education and higher real estate taxes makes kids smarter. We keep throwing more money at this problem and it gets worse. Most of the key problems in education won't be corrected by more spending.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...THE KIDS.

Just because Ma and Pa in Whereversville...could care less if their kids get a good education compared to Richville USA, DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT.
...

Hey wait a second... Look at Opie, he grew up to be a famous quadrillionaire. While you're at it, how about we get the FBI to parent them as well... jumpin' hell, if we can't entrust the parents to move to a state with sufficient edubacadashun for the kids, what can they be trusted to do with said brats?

[plainolebill]

What the graph proves is how gullible you guys are. The increase in the cost of providing an education is about the same as the increase in the cost of everything else. In 1970 gas was 36 cents a gallon. Yesterday I paid $2.99. A stamp was 6 cents; now it's 44. Bread was 44 cents; today its over $3.00

Everything is five times or more what it was in 1970, so it stands to reason that the cost of an educaton would be five times or more what it was then.

You seem to think 5 times the cost should equal five times the improvement. But the scales are totally different. An individual may learn to read five times better than he did previously, (Although he would have to be a real underacheiver to begin with) but if you take a total population in which many are already proficient, progress will be measured in small increments.
In other words, if the average reading score is one year above grade level nationwide, it would take an increase to five years above grade level to achieve a 500% increase. There is a human limit to such things.

On the right hand side of the chart it clearly states that it is adjusted to 2009 constant $.

I agree with most of the comments. Our educational system is broken and getting worse - beginning with the fed mandated requirements to the states - rules and regulations that make it harder to be a teacher and evidently not working. You can blame both parties for that.

It should be dealt with on a state by state basis. Give them the money, make sure it's spent on education and get back to playing golf - or whatever those blowdried, razorcut fools do when they aren't screwing up the country.

[HUSKER55]

The federal government makes a mess of everything it touches. In my neck of the woods the private schools and church schools do a far better job.

I think that privatizing the school system might do a better job and be a better deal for everybody.

[fast4522]

I think the estimate of year 2020 is wrong, it is more like 2025 or 2030 unless we as a people become enablers of the economy. This insane thought that has not worked on any corner of the planet can not work here. When the economy does return it will come back to a economy that resembles that of England. Even when England is going good it is just a whimper of what is natural for the US economy. Everything in Obama's socialist agenda is financed by wall street.