Your schedule for Zenyatta 2010.

[TheGrandDesign]

If you were Zenyatta's trainer,keep in mind the breeders cup classic is your main goal,list YOUR schedule races for Zenyatta.
I would have had her run once at Saratoga and Belmont,and throw in the pacific classic.Even if Zenyatta wins the classic racing fans may never know how good she could have been,we may never see a back to back winner of the classic won by a mare and yet so many questions unanswered.

[Spalding No!]

If you were Zenyatta's trainer,keep in mind the breeders cup classic is your main goal,list YOUR schedule races for Zenyatta.
I would have had her run once at Saratoga and Belmont,and throw in the pacific classic.Even if Zenyatta wins the classic racing fans may never know how good she could have been,we may never see a back to back winner of the classic won by a mare and yet so many questions unanswered.
West:
Santa Maria G2
Santa Anita G1
Milady G2
Vanity G1
Hollywood Gold Cup G1
Pacific Classic G1
Lady's Secret G1
BC Classic G1

East:
Sabin G3
Gulfstream Park G2
Met Mile G1
Ogden Phipps G1
Suburban G2
Delaware G2
Personal Ensign G1
Jockey Club Gold Cup G1
BC Classic G1

[DeanT]

I'd start her with the Dubai World Cup for a prep.

Then to the Apple Blossom, but if Rachel balks, I would send her to the Meadowlands for the Nat Ray against Lucky Jim instead, but only if Mike Smith would let Brian Sears drive.

Then home for a couple of days of R n R.

After that, we are off to Aintree, over the hurdles. At 3 miles.

If she wins that, we have to go to New York for sure; because if you cant make it there, you might as well be a 4 claimer at Penn. I would try the Met Mile. It's not her distance, but not trying is for losers.

I would probably then send her to Rod and Riddle for an injection (or eleven) and since we are there we will prolly ship back to Woodbine for an overnight. On turf.

Then back to Saratoga for the Personal Ensign so the New York fans can like her. She might have trouble with that monster Persistently tho and she will certainly lose sleep over the match-up.

Then, back home for some carrots and to meet the LA media; but immediately on the plane back to Belmont for the Beldame. That Life at Ten might be really tough, but she'll have to suck it up so the dude in the New York Post can write something nice about her.

Then back to the Classic, carrying 147 pounds and off a seven mucous scope (we would not want to have an excuse) she will take on a few colts with some testicles.

After that we'll give her retirement, followed by an inevitable Pace thread asking "has she done enough for HOY?"

:)

[woodtoo]

Too funny :lol: :lol: :lol:
No retirement thou....back to Dubai to close out her career
The only horse to win back to back at Dubai and BC Classic :eek:
She can DO IT ALL

[Grits]

Another good one. This one's priceless, Dean!!!:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Nikki1997]

I'd start her with the Dubai World Cup for a prep.

Then to the Apple Blossom, but if Rachel balks, I would send her to the Meadowlands for the Nat Ray against Lucky Jim instead, but only if Mike Smith would let Brian Sears drive.

Then home for a couple of days of R n R.

After that, we are off to Aintree, over the hurdles. At 3 miles.

If she wins that, we have to go to New York for sure; because if you cant make it there, you might as well be a 4 claimer at Penn. I would try the Met Mile. It's not her distance, but not trying is for losers.

I would probably then send her to Rod and Riddle for an injection (or eleven) and since we are there we will prolly ship back to Woodbine for an overnight. On turf.

Then back to Saratoga for the Personal Ensign so the New York fans can like her. She might have trouble with that monster Persistently tho and she will certainly lose sleep over the match-up.

Then, back home for some carrots and to meet the LA media; but immediately on the plane back to Belmont for the Beldame. That Life at Ten might be really tough, but she'll have to suck it up so the dude in the New York Post can write something nice about her.

Then back to the Classic, carrying 147 pounds and off a seven mucous scope (we would not want to have an excuse) she will take on a few colts with some testicles.

After that we'll give her retirement, followed by an inevitable Pace thread asking "has she done enough for HOY?"

:)


LOL. Too funny. Only thing I would add to this would be she has to average 214 BSF. (I'm sure that won't be high enough for some, but it'll have to do.)

[Spalding No!]

I laugh at the throw-away sarcasm that Zenyatta supporters toss out once in a while, scoffing at her going to Europe to take on the best horses there, essentially tipping their hand that they think that it is too herculean a task even for her.

And yet that is exactly what Rip Van Winkle and Twice Over did last year in the BC Classic, and curiously their defeat on a synthetic surface in a foreign country is taken at face value by those same people when singing Zenyatta's praises.

[chickenhead]

I laugh at the throw-away sarcasm that Zenyatta supporters toss out once in a while, scoffing at her going to Europe to take on the best horses there, essentially tipping their hand that they think that it is too herculean a task even for her.

And yet that is exactly what Rip Van Winkle and Twice Over did last year in the BC Classic, and curiously their defeat on a synthetic surface in a foreign country is taken at face value by those same people when singing Zenyatta's praises.

I can only speak for myself here -- but I wouldn't normally attribute American horses shipping over to Europe and losing Turf races to be due primarily to the shipping. They are have absolutely stellar turf horses that are better than ours.

Likewise I don't normally attribute Euros coming over to lose on Dirt to be primarily due to shipping. Because of course they do just fine on Turf.

Compared to them, we have stellar dirt horses.

On synth, I guess not surprisingly -- the scant evidence would point to it being somewhere in the middle.

The Euros had no trouble in 2008 -- they absolutely killed it. Hardly argues for "throwing out" their 2009 results.

[Nikki1997]

I laugh at the throw-away sarcasm that Zenyatta supporters toss out once in a while, scoffing at her going to Europe to take on the best horses there, essentially tipping their hand that they think that it is too herculean a task even for her.

And yet that is exactly what Rip Van Winkle and Twice Over did last year in the BC Classic, and curiously their defeat on a synthetic surface in a foreign country is taken at face value by those same people when singing Zenyatta's praises.

Want some super sour lemons to go with those sour grapes? Gosh, that might match your attitude.

[the little guy]

Want some super sour lemons to go with those sour grapes? Gosh, that might match your attitude.


Actually, his post made an enormous amount of sense.

No wonder you were confused.

[Spalding No!]

I can only speak for myself here -- but I wouldn't normally attribute American horses shipping over to Europe and losing Turf races to be due primarily to the shipping. They are have absolutely stellar turf horses that are better than ours.
Not enough American horses ship over to run in Europe to form much of an opinion to begin with.

Likewise I don't normally attribute Euros coming over to lose on Dirt to be primarily due to shipping. Because of course they do just fine on Turf.
Yeah, the only difference is that they don't run on dirt in Europe.

Compared to them, we have stellar dirt horses.
No, compared to them, we have dirt horses period.

The Euros had no trouble in 2008 -- they absolutely killed it. Hardly argues for "throwing out" their 2009 results.
So because Raven's Pass (a horse with a very "American" pedigree) beat Curlin, our best dirt horse on a synthetic surface, that suggests that all Euros who come over and try the main track put forth their best effort?

[Tom]

Wow, so many Zenyatta bashing threads they can't even stay on topic anymore.

Whou'da thunk it?

[Spalding No!]

Want some super sour lemons to go with those sour grapes? Gosh, that might match your attitude.
Sour grapes? Why would I be jealous of hypocrisy?

Maybe you oughta go back and work on your idioms, Yakov Smirnoff.

Or maybe you've simply drunk one too many Grape Smirnoff Ices tonight.

[Spalding No!]

Wow, so many Zenyatta bashing threads they can't even stay on topic anymore.

Whou'da thunk it?
Actually, if you care to read the thread, I'm the only one who posted on the topic with any degree of sincerity.

And, as usual, the Zenyatta supporters fail to realize that it is their logic in that endeavor that is being "bashed", not the actual mare.

[Dahoss9698]

Actually, if you care to read the thread, I'm the only one who posted on the topic with any degree of sincerity.

And, as usual, the Zenyatta supporters fail to realize that it is their logic in that endeavor that is being "bashed", not the actual mare.

You're presenting cogent arguements to the wrong group. Unless you have nothing but praise and a horrible opinion they don't want to hear it.

-------Mahoss

[DeanT]

logic

The word logic has never entered the discussion on both sides, and a person with the IQ of a thimble could see it. Why start now?

[chickenhead]

Not enough American horses ship over to run in Europe to form much of an opinion to begin with.

What, are you kidding? Since they ship over here and routinely drill us on the turf-- I conclude on very logical grounds -- that if we shipped over there, they'd drill us over there too. Even more routinely.

You want to argue that point?

No, compared to them, we have dirt horses period.

They aren't actually made of dirt. They just run on it, and horses can run on more than one surface. They aren't bred for it, but they come here to try it. We breed for it, and routinely drill them when they do. Like I said, we have better dirt horses.

So because Raven's Pass (a horse with a very "American" pedigree) beat Curlin, our best dirt horse on a synthetic surface, that suggests that all Euros who come over and try the main track put forth their best effort?

I'll assume by main track you mean synth. And it's not only he that beat Curlin, 2 Euro's beat all the other horses.

Since they've won and placed in 50% of the synth BCC -- if you want to argue the surface or the shipping makes them ineffective the onus is on you to make that argument -- because there is no evidence to support it.

Maybe in 2009 they were just over the top, maybe they sent the wrong horses, maybe they were injured, maybe they just sucked.

Plenty of other reasonable explanations that might actually hold up, no need to latch onto one that doesn't even make sense.

[Spalding No!]

What, are you kidding? Since they ship over here and routinely drill us on the turf-- I conclude on very logical grounds -- that if we shipped over there, they'd drill us over there too. Even more routinely.

You want to argue that point?
Uh, you were the one to assume that any sort of lag in performance by a foreign raider was the result of "shipping". I never made that point, and certainly wouldn't as it pertains to American horses running in Europe because, once again:

There have not been enough American horses to run in Europe to form an opinion.

Of course, now that you've changed your tune and suggested it was because of a collective difference in talent, I suppose you were right all along.


They aren't actually made of dirt. They just run on it, and horses can run on more than one surface. They aren't bred for it, but they come here to try it. We breed for it, and routinely drill them when they do. Like I said, we have better dirt horses.
Cute. And thanks for reiterating my point, that we breed horses for dirt tracks, and they don't. Another tune changed.

You're like a jukebox.

I'll assume by main track you mean synth. And it's not only he that beat Curlin, 2 Euro's beat all the other horses.
Yes, but wasn't HOY Curlin the most significant of the home team?

Of course he was.

Here's where you laughably bring up Colonel John, by the way...

Since they've won and placed in 50% of the synth BCC -- if you want to argue the surface or the shipping makes them ineffective the onus is on you to make that argument -- because there is no evidence to support it.
You're going to base your conclusions on just 2 races? See my response regarding American horses in Europe...

By the way, Euros have come over for other races aside from the Breeder's Cup.

Maybe in 2009 they were just over the top, maybe they sent the wrong horses, maybe they were injured, maybe they just sucked.
Finally, you get back to my original (and only) argument. Beating Rip Van Winkle and Twice Over in the end was no great shakes, regardless of the reason.

Plenty of other reasonable explanations that might actually hold up, no need to latch onto one that doesn't even make sense.
So in the end, you're whole argument is that it doesn't make sense that horses have surface preferences?

Are you the guy that told Jim Cassidy to run The Usual QT in the Pacific Classic?

[chickenhead]

My Goodness,you are a whole stew of dishonesty and confusion.

My original post:

They are have absolutely stellar turf horses that are better than ours.

Pretty simple. Straight, to the point. A child could understand it. Even a very slow child.

After giving me the troll shuffle, you circle back around to:


Of course, now that you've changed your tune and suggested it was because of a collective difference in talent, I suppose you were right all along.


Can you read? I've only said one thing -- the thing you are now agreeing with. Were you having an minor stroke your first time through?

Up next, more of the same

Cute. And thanks for reiterating my point, that we breed horses for dirt tracks, and they don't. Another tune changed.

And once again -- that's exactly the only thing I ever said. "We have better dirt horses."

Seriously -- what is wrong with you?

Do people normally engage with you when you are so obviously dishonest, or just too dense to actually read? I mean, what is the point?

(that's rhetorical, I know there isn't one.)

Night night.

[Spalding No!]

I have no such expectations when it comes to Euros on synth, because I have no evidence to suggest they are at any special disadvantage. The evidence seems to suggest the opposite, if anything.

Which makes the original argument, saying Zenyatta going to Europe is EXACTLY the same as Euros coming over to run on synth, silly.

Pretty simple stuff.
So basically, now you're trying to slip in the sloppy "synthetics are like turf" argument, apparently to justify Euros (ie, one single Euro-- KY-bred Raven's Pass) coming over here and winning one race.

And yet on the other hand, an American synthetic horse can't possibly have any inate turf ability--because it's really a dirt horse. Convenient.

In a way, that makes sense. An egg can be turned into an omelet, but an omelet can't be turned into an egg.

One's a highly-ordered, natural form. The other is a scrambled mess. Kind of like your little surface theory there....and synthetic racing in general.

[KingChas]

West:
Santa Maria G2
Santa Anita G1
Milady G2
Vanity G1
Hollywood Gold Cup G1
Pacific Classic G1
Lady's Secret G1
BC Classic G1

East:
Sabin G3
Gulfstream Park G2
Met Mile G1
Ogden Phipps G1
Suburban G2
Delaware G2
Personal Ensign G1
Jockey Club Gold Cup G1
BC Classic G1


Are the first two initials of your real name D.W? :D

[Spalding No!]

Are the first two initials of your real name D.W? :D
Come on, those are campaigns of 8 and 9 races, respectively, that involve virtually no shipping (other than the routine East Coast winter sojourn to FL).

Combine those two, and maybe cancel out the 4 or 5 races that inevitably fall on the same weekend.

Then you might have a Lukas-type campaign.

In fact, take a look at Serena's Song's campaign in '95. It would take both Rachel Alexandra's and Zenyatta's 2010 campaigns combined to get a similar series of races. Of course, without 3 starts against males.

And perhaps there is no more poignant example of the erosion this sport has suffered in the last 15 years.

[chickenhead]

So basically, now you're trying to slip in the sloppy "synthetics are like turf" argument, apparently to justify Euros (ie, one single Euro-- KY-bred Raven's Pass) coming over here and winning one race.

And yet on the other hand, an American synthetic horse can't possibly have any inate turf ability--because it's really a dirt horse. Convenient.

In a way, that makes sense. An egg can be turned into an omelet, but an omelet can't be turned into an egg.

One's a highly-ordered, natural form. The other is a scrambled mess. Kind of like your little surface theory there....and synthetic racing in general.

Sure, I certainly think Turf horses have every expectation to run well at SA. And yes, absolutely, I have a very high regard for European Turf horses and the quality of their races. We don't always get the A class, when they're on their A game. Usually don't.

Zenyatta ran great in the 2009 BCC. So did Gio Ponti. Zenyatta probably has a load of innate turf ability. Gio Ponti has lots of explicit turf ability. They ran 1-2 in the richest race in North America. I wouldn't give either of them much of a shot in the Arc, or anything like it. I'd love to see it, of course.

So yes, what you're missing I guess -- is I'm presuming Zenyatta could have, maybe if all was perfect with the universe would have been beaten by a top-class, in form Euro last year. It just didn't happen.

[andtheyreoff]

100th post here!

Santa Maria (Feb. 13)

Big Cap (Mar. 6)

Apple Blossom (Apr. 9)

Vanity (Jun. 13)

Hollywood Gold Cup (Jul. 10)

Pacific Classic (Aug. 28)
OR
Personal Ensign (Aug. 29)

Jockey Club Gold Cup (Oct. 2)

Breeders' Cup Classic (Nov. 6)

That is a campaign of 8 races with a varying mix of mares, males, synthetics, and dirt.

She wins out and finishes 22-22-0-0 and as the richest female horse ever, if not the richest American horse ever.

[wisconsin]

100th post here!

Santa Maria (Feb. 13)

Big Cap (Mar. 6)

Apple Blossom (Apr. 9)

Vanity (Jun. 13)

Hollywood Gold Cup (Jul. 10)

Pacific Classic (Aug. 28)
OR
Personal Ensign (Aug. 29)

Jockey Club Gold Cup (Oct. 2)

Breeders' Cup Classic (Nov. 6)

That is a campaign of 8 races with a varying mix of mares, males, synthetics, and dirt.

She wins out and finishes 22-22-0-0 and as the richest female horse ever, if not the richest American horse ever.

I think the goal was to get to 20. A figure that will stand for a very long time. As for racing against the males, there really was no need to again. She already has once already. Say what you will, but she is in a position to prove herself again once and for all. If she wins, and I think she will, there will be nothing more to ever wonder about. No more what if's and coulda's. You can put an asterisk next to the win streak, if people think they need to, but back to back BC Classic wins by a mare on different surfaces is unheard of, and before her, it was not even in the realm of reality.