Q: who has Oak Tree's attendance and handle figs? [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

andymays

10-01-2010, 11:37 AM

If it was a big night they would be bragging all over the place by now.
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http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-oak-tree-20101001,0,3421373.story

Excerpt:

Opening day drew more than 17,000 last year at Santa Anita, but early signs Thursday night indicated a struggle for attendance, though the track was hoping for many late-arriving fans for a concert by the band Sugar Ray.

---------------------------------------------------

This is what Paulick has on his site so before I clicked I figured wow they must have kicked butt last night. Talk about misleading. :rolleyes:

LA TIMES: Never before had the Oak Tree meeting started with such a scene as the one Thursday night at Hollywood Park

David-LV

10-01-2010, 11:42 AM

The DRF charts reveals ....

Thursday Evening race card completed at 2:01 am Eastern time :sleeping: (Friday).

The opening day handle and attendance for some reason, is not accessible this morning.

The total handle from all sources for opening night was a disappointing $3,944,705.

Maybe the silent majority is just fed up with California racing and all the brilliant things that have come to past this last few years.

Thursday night racing, don't the people that have jobs have to go to work on Friday?

The attendance figure is still a mystery.

________
David-LV

andymays

10-01-2010, 11:46 AM

The total handle from all sources for opening night was a disappointing $3,944,705.

Maybe the silent majority is just fed up with California racing.

The attendance figure is still a mystery.

________
David-LV

Anyone know last years all sources handle on opening day?

How they do at Hollywood Park is going to have a major impact on this story. My guess is that the CHRB will have to award Oak Trees dates to Santa Anita if the handle is significantly less overall and on track.

California owners silent on Oak Tree-Santa Anita 2011 dates dispute

http://drf.com/news/california-owners-silent-oak-tree-santa-anita-2011-dates-dispute

Dahoss9698

10-01-2010, 11:48 AM

Does anyone know why they chose to have night racing on a Thursday? Then today the post time is the normal time. Just doesn't seem too smart to have it on a night when half the country is probably in bed before the 5th race goes off.

andymays

10-01-2010, 11:50 AM

Dahoss9698

10-01-2010, 11:50 AM

Anyone know last years all sources handle on opening day?

I read on another board it was $6,729,164

andymays

10-01-2010, 11:51 AM

I read on another board it was $6,729,164

Wow. Santa Anita will get their dates for sure if this continues and it probably will.

David-LV

10-01-2010, 11:54 AM

I read on another board it was $6,729,164

The number that I gave $3,944,705 from all sources came right out of the mutual office at Hollywood.

_________
David-LV

andymays

10-01-2010, 11:56 AM

The number that I gave $3,944,705 from all sources came right out of the mutual office at Hollywood.

_________
David-LV

That's this year. The 6 million plus was from last year. If those numbers are correct then I wonder how they will spin a drop like that. If those number are right they should just hide.

Dahoss9698

10-01-2010, 11:57 AM

The number that I gave $3,944,705 from all sources came right out of the mutual office at Hollywood.

_________
David-LV

The number that I gave was from last year, not last night.

Bruddah

10-01-2010, 12:00 PM

In my opinion, it takes a brave soul to drive in that part of LA after dark. I would hope for all the lights to be green so, I could make it to the airport and return my rental car. ;) This could be a legitimate excuse for low attendance thursday night.

David-LV

10-01-2010, 12:02 PM

I read on another board it was $6,729,164

Sorry Dahoss I misread your post.

________
David-LV

Charli125

10-01-2010, 12:07 PM

That's this year. The 6 million plus was from last year. If those numbers are correct then I wonder how they will spin a drop like that. If those number are right they should just hide.

Didn't you hear? The Ryder Cup was rained out and everyone was so depressed, they just couldn't possibly wager.

The_Knight_Sky

10-01-2010, 12:10 PM

.... late-arriving fans for a concert by the band Sugar Ray.

Thanks for enlightening me Andy.
If there was a concert, I do not really want to know the attendance figures.

I do think it is proper for every racetrack to produce on-track and off-track handle figures. I hope Oak Tree is not going to do what the CDI tracks do these days.

There are five more night cards scheduled until the meeting ends Oct. 31, and Hollywood Park President Jack Liebau said, "You are seeing the wave of the future with [ Kentucky's] Churchill Downs going to lights. You have [ Florida's] Gulfstream talking about going to lights."

The key to night racing is the location and whether the racetrack makes that evening a special event of it. Too many of these night cards spoils the novelty aspect and ultimately the bigger tracks will hurt the established night tracks, especially the harness racing sport.

David-LV

10-01-2010, 12:26 PM

There are five more night cards scheduled until the meeting ends Oct. 31, and Hollywood Park President Jack Liebau said, "You are seeing the wave of the future with [ Kentucky's] Churchill Downs going to lights. You have [ Florida's] Gulfstream talking about going to lights."

I don't think that the wave of the future is to run on weekday nights when people have to go to work or school the next day.

________
David-LV

The_Knight_Sky

10-01-2010, 12:42 PM

I read on another board it was $6,729,164

That took place on a Wednesday - apparently with a special on-track event.

Thursday's numbers I from last year are found below:

http://i55.tinypic.com/f2ovhe.jpg

Bruddah

10-01-2010, 01:22 PM

That took place on a Wednesday - apparently with a special on-track event.

Thursday's numbers I from last year are found below:

http://i55.tinypic.com/f2ovhe.jpg

Looks like the big difference is on track attendance and handle. It would seem that the on track event made a big difference.

BlueShoe

10-01-2010, 02:08 PM

Thursday night racing, don't the people that have jobs have to go to work on Friday?
Yes, and they mostly will stay home. The ones that dont have jobs should not be at the track at all, regardless of the hours. Imo, it is not a good idea for a California track, that depends heavily on out of state handle, to race at night on a weeknight. Many east coast fans are going to bed when Hollypark is just starting.

Stillriledup

10-01-2010, 02:14 PM

This nighttime stuff before daytime is for the birds, there's really no time to handicap properly, you almost have to choose one card or the other. This akin to a major league baseball player playing a day game after a night game, some veterans, especially catchers, won't play in the day game if they caught the night before. I'm sure some bettors feel the same way.

Normally, what i would do is bet the night card and then automatically skip the next day's afternoonn card and start working on the following day's card.

Robert Goren

10-01-2010, 03:06 PM

I am not a big fan of night racing for "major" tracks. Some case can be made for Friday nights, but a night card on a Thursday night for a west coast track does not make any sense to me. The time difference means you are giving up on a lot of east coast and midwest money or so it seems to me.

David-LV

10-01-2010, 03:10 PM

BlueShoe

10-01-2010, 03:23 PM

This nighttime stuff before daytime is for the birds, there's really no time to handicap properly, you almost have to choose one card or the other. Normally, what i would do is bet the night card and then automatically skip the next day's afternoonn card and start working on the following day's card.
Ditto. I prefer to do my serious work the night before. In order to give proper attention to a night racing card, am unable to do this. It is quite difficult for me to "double back" from a night card to the next day one. With the early east coast simo races starting around 11:00 in California, this leaves little time to do serious work.

Tom

10-01-2010, 03:26 PM

Listen to Byk's show today....night racing is in the plans for both track.

btw, if none of you guys are betting California, what he HELL do you care when they run?

Myself, I prefer night racing.

andymays

10-01-2010, 03:42 PM

Disappointing attendance for opening of Oak Tree meet | The Fabulous Forum | Los Angeles Times
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2010/10/disappointing-attendance-for-opening-of-oak-tree-meet.html

Excerpt:

There was an on-track crowd of 4,279 Thursday night for the opening of the 22-day Oak Tree meeting at Hollywood Park

Excerpt:

Hollywood Park's total handle was $4,524,976 compared to $7,632,645 last year at Santa Anita.

Tom

10-01-2010, 03:54 PM

What would the on track attendance have been during the day?

You don't think they knew handle would be lower without all the east coast action?

andymays

10-01-2010, 03:56 PM

What would the on track attendance have been during the day?

You don't think they knew handle would be lower without all the east coast action?

There's a huge difference between Hollywood Park and Santa Anita for several reasons. Don't forget they had a concert and projected 20k attendance for last night and only got 4k and change.

Tom

10-01-2010, 04:03 PM

So days, 2,000? 6,000?

andymays

10-01-2010, 04:05 PM

So days, 2,000? 6,000?

I think 6k is a lot for a weekday at Hollywood Park but I'm not positive. I guess we'll be able to tell from todays figures.

Tom

10-01-2010, 04:16 PM

If they showed up today, they got a treat - Zenyatta in the paddock right now.

Looking good.

Bruddah

10-01-2010, 04:26 PM

There's a huge difference between Hollywood Park and Santa Anita for several reasons. Don't forget they had a concert and projected 20k attendance for last night and only got 4k and change.

You're right Andy. The big difference is the drive thru the neighborhoods and being out after dark. Quite a contrast. :faint: (IMHO)

andymays

10-01-2010, 04:30 PM

You're right Andy. The big difference is the drive thru the neighborhoods and being out after dark. Quite a contrast. :faint: (IMHO)

Yes, the area is a little rough. Santa Anita is like paradise to me.

rwwupl

10-01-2010, 05:12 PM

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2010/10/disappointing-attendance-for-opening-of-oak-tree-meet.html

"We knew this was an experiment," said Sherwood Chillingworth, executive vice president at Oak Tree. "The horse racing board has been insisting on trying to do something to get younger people involved. It's hard to build the fan base with the younger group, but we're trying."

In discussion at the last Fairplex meeting, John Harris on the CHRB questioned the wisdom of pursuing "young people" for 20 years and getting no results. Other marketing experts on the Board insisted that was the only way to go.

Read the full story above. Blinkers on? Another disaster.

andymays

10-01-2010, 05:19 PM

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2010/10/disappointing-attendance-for-opening-of-oak-tree-meet.html

In discussion at the last Fairplex meeting, John Harris on the CHRB questioned the wisdom of pursuing "young people" for 20 years and getting no results. Other marketing experts on the Board insisted that was the only way to go.

Read the full story above. Blinkers on? Another disaster.

They keep trying to duplicate Del Mar. Del Mar is a unique situation. Once again they don't get it.

Stillriledup

10-01-2010, 05:25 PM

They keep trying to dublicate Del Mar. Del Mar is a unique situation. Once again they don't get it.

And they probably never will.

rwwupl

10-01-2010, 05:31 PM

They keep trying to dublicate Del Mar. Del Mar is a unique situation. Once again they don't get it.

Albert Einstein ... Insanity...Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

What do CHRB Board members bring to the table about marketing horse racing?

BlueShoe

10-01-2010, 05:33 PM

Just thinking out loud, but how has Emerald Downs fared with night racing? They go at 6:00 on Thursday and Friday, days on weekends. Have no idea as to the importance of out of state wagering is to their handle. While they start a bit earlier than HOL they are also on Pacific time. Emerald is rarely mentioned on this forum, so perhaps their signal is not widely available at the eastern and mid western simo centers and tracks, or offered by the adw's. If this is so, then likely local and in state handle plays a much more important role than it does at the large SoCal tracks.

Dahoss9698

10-01-2010, 08:36 PM

I'm not opposed to night racing at all. In fact I enjoy it. What makes no sense to me is night racing on a Thursday night.

The_Knight_Sky

10-01-2010, 10:24 PM

Other marketing experts on the Board insisted that was the only way to go.

Horse Racing needs less "marketing experts" and more mathematical and gambling experts.

Has there ever been a noted economist serving on these state-run horse racing commissions?
It's about time to hire one - and listen to him / her.

America is fed up: 17% drop in all-sources handle for the first two days of OTH.

http://i51.tinypic.com/23wwimq.jpg

dansan

10-01-2010, 10:28 PM

free parking free addmisson etc etc etc you'll make back just get them in the joint! casino's dont charge plus free drinks

Charlie D

10-01-2010, 10:36 PM

17% drop in all-sources handle for the first two days of OTH.

Raise take to compensate

andymays

10-01-2010, 10:47 PM

Horse Racing needs less "marketing experts" and more mathematical and gambling experts.

Has there ever been a noted economist serving on these state-run horse racing commissions?
It's about time to hire one - and listen to him / her.

America is fed up: 17% drop in all-sources handle for the first two days of OTH.

http://i51.tinypic.com/23wwimq.jpg

Post #25 from the LA times article has different numbers. ????

affirmedny

10-01-2010, 10:49 PM

[b]

Thursday night racing, don't the people that have jobs have to go to work on Friday?

The attendance figure is still a mystery.

________
David-LV

Yes, and they also would have been at those jobs on Thursday afternoon and not at Hollywood Park.

The_Knight_Sky

10-01-2010, 11:02 PM

Post #25 from the LA times article has different numbers. ????

I just double-checked my numbers for OSA 2009 from the Simulcast Weekly charts (http://www1.drf.com/displayChart.do?filepath=Download\simulcastweekly\ charts\0909\OSA2009093009.pdf)

The DRF numbers on the spreadsheet stands. :ThmbUp:

PaceAdvantage

10-01-2010, 11:08 PM

Churchill Downs experienced great success with their night racing experiments.

Robert Goren

10-01-2010, 11:27 PM

BillW

10-02-2010, 12:14 AM

Post #25 from the LA times article has different numbers. ????

They reported $4,658,055.00 to Equibase for 10/1

toussaud

10-02-2010, 12:59 AM

I'm not opposed to night racing at all. In fact I enjoy it. What makes no sense to me is night racing on a Thursday night.

I will take it a step father.

i'm not even against, thursday night racing

but man, i'm in arknasas, first post was at freaking 9:05pm

the 4th quarter of the texas a and m game was on, when they broke for the first gate.

i'm 27, this is pretty much what i do, so my schedule is tailored around the tracks i wager, but man.. 9 o clock? that's fine for a friday. but a thursday, you need to cut that down by at least 2 hours.

if you are going to cater to out of state players, really, cater to out of state players, don't half ass it. start at 4-5pm local time. I would have no problem if they started 7pm my time, would be done about 10:30 which is about the time remington gets done, actually that is the time remington gets done.

remington was damn near done when hollywood park started.

i mean, i will deal with it, becuase i play socal tracks. but still, i mean your avg person has to be at work at 8am. just like, racing at 1 o clock makes no sense.. what do you think all 25 yerar old kids are jobless losers who have nothing better to do than to stay up on a Thursday and wager on your track lol? if you are assuming your 25 year olds have jobs, then they have to in bed at a half ass decent hour.

Dahoss9698

10-02-2010, 01:06 AM

Yeah, I guess I wouldn't mind night racing on a Thursday if it was earlier. That was a bizarre decision last night.

JustRalph

10-02-2010, 02:11 AM

They are trying to entice all that money from unemployment checks

1 out of 4 on unemployment in some places.........Including some counties in ca

The_Knight_Sky

10-02-2010, 09:30 AM

http://i51.tinypic.com/23wwimq.jpg

Raise take to compensate

You can see where this is going, right?
At this point there is no formal boycott under way.

While it is early in the meet and the takeout rates remains the same, come November, I'd say Oak Tree should be ecstatic if the all-sources handle was off by less than 10%.

But the geniuses in Sacramento continue to think it is okay to bite the hand that feeds thee at the mutuel windows. Not only that depletes the bankrolls of many, it forces the bettors to seek out other options. I think more than a handful are planning to move their action to other racetracks come December 26th. If that happens the purse levels ultimately may decrease instead of increase next year.

I'd love to see the CHRB step up to the microphone and explain that they're giving a "waiver" to a racetrack who do not want to participate in overcharging their customers. ;)

Tom

10-02-2010, 09:53 AM

Dahoss9698

10-02-2010, 11:22 AM

The post time were not so out of line for the locals. Me,I took Friday off so I played. And I won a little. Not retiring, but I am shopping thick cut steaks this morning.

I just don't understand how so many people are upset by the late start when they are not going to play Hollywood? :confused:

This is a discussion board right? We discuss things. I don't really think anyone is upset. Just trying to understand the decision. It doesn't make a lot of sense to alienate an entire coast, on the opening day of your track IMO. The handle numbers seem to agree with this.

If you were working Friday would you have played?

Tom

10-02-2010, 11:26 AM

They early races, yes.
But my point was, if everyone is boycotting, why worry about it?
After all, it is a discussion board, so I was discussing a curious amount of attention on track people are avoiding. ;)

Dahoss9698

10-02-2010, 11:37 AM

I haven't read the boycott thread, so I'm not really sure what is going on with that. But obviously everyone isn't boycotting.

andymays

10-02-2010, 11:48 AM

I haven't read the boycott thread, so I'm not really sure what is going on with that. But obviously everyone isn't boycotting.

They haven't called for one yet. I'd make it 50/50 at this point.

Tom

10-02-2010, 11:50 AM

What are they waiting for.....Hollywood at Hollywood? Or, as Equibase calls it....HAH!

Ha!

andymays

10-02-2010, 11:52 AM

What are they waiting for.....Hollywood at Hollywood? Or, as Equibase calls it....HAH!

Ha!

My best guess is that if one is called it will be in the next couple of weeks.

Most of the people who are most vocal about having one don't play out here anyway. If one is called it has to be successfull or it will be a disaster. I'm not really feeling the support for a successfull action right now.

Vinnie

10-02-2010, 11:57 AM

I'm not opposed to night racing at all. In fact I enjoy it. What makes no sense to me is night racing on a Thursday night.

You are right on the money Dahoss! When I first heard that the Late Night Racing was being held on a Thursday evening at OTH, I thought that it most certainly was some sort of mistake in scheduling. Heck, I watched a race or two and I was in the rack because many of us folks have to wake up early to get started for work the following day. Friday or Saturday night racing would tend to make a little bit more sense.

InsideThePylons-MW

10-02-2010, 12:47 PM

How much uncommingled foreign handle was added to the off-track numbers?

I would guess a lot looking at the off-track numbers from this year and last year.

If David-LV was right with his under $4 million number that came from Hol mutuel dept., then I guess they might have added $500K+ to the total handle opening night.

andymays

10-02-2010, 12:55 PM