A Little Warm - 3rd in the PA Derby

[GatetoWire]

Interested in hearing what everyone here thinks.

Give me your take:

1. A solid effort but beaten by better
2. Pedigree has finally caught up. Anything more than a mile is a stretch
3. Gomez moved too soon and used up his energy in the turn and at the head of the stretch costing him the victory
4. After some big efforts at Delaware and Saratoga his form is cycling down.

[Bullet Plane]

Don't think he lost anything in this race. Morning Line is a late developing monster. First Dude ran one hell of a race and is a beast.

Little Warm gave 8 lbs to Morning Line and 6 lbs to First Dude. Also lost his jock to M/L because they didn't plan on running him in here until the last minute. Don't think he was 100% cranked.

And lost by, what, a nose and neck?

No, I don't take anything away from him in this race. Absolutely nothing.
One hell of a game try.

[Robert Fischer]

I'm hoping to catch the replay on youtube or something later, as I haven't seen the race to make a visual appraisal.

when i look at the chart(and having to make assumptions w/out the vid), it looks like the horse who looked like he might be the best horse in the race coming in(Morning Line) had an excellent trip, and that as they neared the stretch Gomez could see the race was close to being over and had to bid with A Little Warm. His likely decision was justified with the continuation of the action to the finish.

Without going beyond the literal paper form of ALW in the past, and without seeing anything to indicate something other than what the chart appears to indicate, I wouldn't really make any sweeping judgment on A Little Warm other than that he can't afford to give a competitive horse a better trip and then play catch-up by doing extra running.

[point given]

:1: :4: WAS A GOOD EFFORT PEAKED IN jIM DANDY

[bisket]

this race is a good spot to highlight an opinion i have and use frequently when handicapping horses like the top 3 finishers in this race. i think the point i'm about to make also pertains to an opinion i have in regards to the article crist penned recently. looking at the pps going into this race my opinion was it was very difficult to differentiate the better horse between the 3 top finishers. all have similar styles and ability in my opinion.

when looking at a race with a distance of 1 1/8 mile i'm more inclined to give horses with this style of running the nod. although my feelings are that horses like these 3 are at their distance limit. these 3 runners are basically the niche that our breeding farms have carved out for themselves.... speed. now i give these type runners the nod at this distance, but the fresh one is usually your winner if they are equal in ability. early speed has the edge at this distance, but in my opinion when raced regularly they don't HAVE THE STAMINA TO WIN A CLOSE RACE!!!! now this also depends on the horse as some won't let others pass, but i don't see that with these three. so if i put another runner alongside them in the stretch i take this into consideration. a closer or even runner will beat them alot of times or the freshest one. its that extra little bit that speed doesn't have when raced regularly at a route.

this is why horses are raced much more sparingly than in years past. the vast majority of our runners are speed horses and just aren't....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIhlOjmwHXU&feature=related

buncha pretty boys that race one time and need to be put away for 2 months before they can race back to their top. it takes stamina to have more capabilities than that.

[Dahoss9698]

I'm hoping to catch the replay on youtube or something later, as I haven't seen the race to make a visual appraisal.

when i look at the chart(and having to make assumptions w/out the vid), it looks like the horse who looked like he might be the best horse in the race coming in(Morning Line) had an excellent trip, and that as they neared the stretch Gomez could see the race was close to being over and had to bid with A Little Warm. His likely decision was justified with the continuation of the action to the finish.

Without going beyond the literal paper form of ALW in the past, and without seeing anything to indicate something other than what the chart appears to indicate, I wouldn't really make any sweeping judgment on A Little Warm other than that he can't afford to give a competitive horse a better trip and then play catch-up by doing extra running.

You should watch the race.

[Dahoss9698]

Interested in hearing what everyone here thinks.

Give me your take:

1. A solid effort but beaten by better
2. Pedigree has finally caught up. Anything more than a mile is a stretch
3. Gomez moved too soon and used up his energy in the turn and at the head of the stretch costing him the victory
4. After some big efforts at Delaware and Saratoga his form is cycling down.

I'll take number 2. He really seemed to struggle that last furlong. He was carried by the track in the Jim Dandy and IMO his connections should keep him at a mile or shorter.

[Jasonm921]

I have one thing to say about this race. First Dude is a bit of a head case. How many races now have we seen this horse back up on the turn and then rally strong enough to catch up to the lead pack right before the wire. I would take the blinkers off this horse and just let him run from slightly off the pace. He needs a target to run at.

[bigmack]

I'm hoping to catch the replay on youtube or something later, as I haven't seen the race to make a visual appraisal.
http://www.equibase.com/premium/video/rotw-flash.cfm

[Robert Fischer]

http://www.equibase.com/premium/video/rotw-flash.cfm

excellent:ThmbUp:

[Headbanger]

More than anything it was just really bad horses outstaggering and outlasting other bad horses. Let's be realistic, Morning Line ain't much. Most of these horses have yet to ever really run a really good race, and many of them have only run one really fast race if they have run one.

[Robert Fischer]

ML = great trip, only average ride in terms of saving horse
ALW = slightly worse trip, shortened stride late
FD = potential big underlay but not enough fan money in the pools, still almost won this g3/allowance contest, dizney/romans got a nice year from this horse but the big natural talent would have needed a move-up from a more potent barn to be a true secondary factor in the division

[Robert Fischer]

More than anything it was just really bad horses outstaggering and outlasting other bad horses. Let's be realistic, Morning Line ain't much. Most of these horses have yet to ever really run a really good race, and many of them have only run one really fast race if they have run one.

shit they went 1:47.85
i don't want 3yo allowance/ G3 types going any faster than that anyway

[Headbanger]

shit they went 1:47.85
i don't want 3yo allowance/ G3 types going any faster than that anyway

You must not know anything about Philly Park...they don't run enough races at the distance to really compare it. The track was also lightning fast today. 8K F&M Claimers went in 1:09.3 and Starter Allowance horses went in 1:09.2. Most of the dirt races were for dirt cheap horses as well today. Let's see how many races these horses go on to win in the future, especially at the graded stakes level.

[Bullet Plane]

Ugh, let me see here....

First Dude ( who has over 600K in the bag before this race) lost the Preakness by 3/4 of a length to Lookin at Lucky-who will be three year old of the year.

Little Warm already won the Grade 2 Jim Dandy.

Now Morning Line beats both of them. Without the need of speed figures- he's a pretty, pretty, pretty damn good horse.

As to the speed of the race...

the first two routes on the card were a little fast, the second two, not that fast at all..track may have slowed during the course of the day...

1:47 and change is a seriously fast 1 1/8 time at PARK... the standard for graded stakes older horses according to the Cynthia Publishing Par Times is 1:49 flat.

Baring injury or retirement to stud duty, all three will win, place, and show in more stakes races.

[Tom]

First Dude is still eligible for a NW1 allowance and appears to be a professional runner up. Good sucker horse. I bet he never wins a Gr1 race, or a Gr2.

Of the three of them I would say the only one with a future is the winner.
Unless one of the others find a weak field and a strong bias.

[Dahoss9698]

Ugh, let me see here....

First Dude ( who has over 600K in the bag before this race) lost the Preakness by 3/4 of a length to Lookin at Lucky-who will be three year old of the year.

Little Warm already won the Grade 2 Jim Dandy.

Now Morning Line beats both of them. Without the need of speed figures- he's a pretty, pretty, pretty damn good horse.

As to the speed of the race...

the first two routes on the card were a little fast, the second two, not that fast at all..track may have slowed during the course of the day...

1:47 and change is a seriously fast 1 1/8 time at PARK... the standard for graded stakes older horses according to the Cynthia Publishing Par Times is 1:49 flat.

Baring injury or retirement to stud duty, all three will win, place, and show in more stakes races.

Umm....A Little Warm is clearly distance challeneged and First Dude doesn't like to win. I like FD, but he hasn't figured out the whole winning thing yet.

Of course they can all go on to win stakes....there are very few "good" horses around nowadays. But none of these three are very good IMO.

[Robert Fischer]

You must not know anything about Philly Park...they don't run enough races at the distance to really compare it. The track was also lightning fast today. 8K F&M Claimers went in 1:09.3 and Starter Allowance horses went in 1:09.2. Most of the dirt races were for dirt cheap horses as well today. Let's see how many races these horses go on to win in the future, especially at the graded stakes level.

I think we actually probably agree about a lot of stuff in this race (including these horses actual class or ability and philly park in general). Also didn't mean to come across like I was attacking your opinion. :ThmbUp:

I'm pretty much just nitpicking that although the Dutrow horse was shortening stride, that the Raw times were OK (yes i know the dif. between raw times and times adjusted for tracks, variants etc..). However the conclusions and gut feelings i leave the race with aren't really in dispute with what i think you are saying:ThmbUp:

[Robert Fischer]

First Dude is still eligible for a NW1 allowance and appears to be a professional runner up. Good sucker horse. I bet he never wins a Gr1 race, or a Gr2.

Of the three of them I would say the only one with a future is the winner.
Unless one of the others find a weak field and a strong bias.

Dude is one that when i first really saw him in a 2yo maiden 8.5f at CD, he had some fundamental positives about him.
I had a funny idea that that an owner for R.orA.Dutrow,Zito,Pletcher,Baffert,or Sadler would have done well to purchase First Dude early on for market price.
For whatever reason,for this one i favored the connections LaPenta and zito in particular(does anyone else "handicap" acquisitions?). I thought that Zito would have had success with First Dude's tools, and that after he was moved-up, Dude would have been a good 2nd tier 3yo stakes horse and that Dude's style fit Zito's advantages. Not only was dude a big lug who hadn't been developed to his maximum speed, he had a strong set of fundamentals and solid footwork.
Not too much longer after that, LaPenta/Zito ended up getting a horse called Jackson Bend.
Of course I don't know if First Dude was ever off the table at any point early in the season.

[senortout]

My take on the three

A Little Warm was my selection and was well placed in the running responded when set down yet was not good enough. I thought the connections, savvy on Pha Park and all would be an edge. Horse not quite good enough at this stage.

First Dude, one teensie bit below the best of his generation, can never be accused of possessing 'quit' it's not in his makeup. I would bet him the next time these three face each other, even given today's outcome. Serious second and third effort on display. Big Sandy may have suited him better than this traditional hard race track.

Morning Line, up for this day, may have big problems repeating this effort. Its the kind of effort that causes problems down the road. Hope he eats up and does well, but in my opinion this was a one time thing. It's very true that he surprised me though!

[OTM Al]

First Dude is still eligible for a NW1 allowance and appears to be a professional runner up. Good sucker horse. I bet he never wins a Gr1 race, or a Gr2.

Of the three of them I would say the only one with a future is the winner.
Unless one of the others find a weak field and a strong bias.

Exacta player's best friend, a horse that refuses to win but always has a great shot at second. Not sure I would even win bet him in a NW1 as he does whatever he can to lose.

[depalma113]

Dude is one that when i first really saw him in a 2yo maiden 8.5f at CD, he had some fundamental positives about him.
I had a funny idea that that an owner for R.orA.Dutrow,Zito,Pletcher,Baffert,or Sadler would have done well to purchase First Dude early on for market price.
For whatever reason,for this one i favored the connections LaPenta and zito in particular(does anyone else "handicap" acquisitions?). I thought that Zito would have had success with First Dude's tools, and that after he was moved-up, Dude would have been a good 2nd tier 3yo stakes horse and that Dude's style fit Zito's advantages. Not only was dude a big lug who hadn't been developed to his maximum speed, he had a strong set of fundamentals and solid footwork.
Not too much longer after that, LaPenta/Zito ended up getting a horse called Jackson Bend.
Of course I don't know if First Dude was ever off the table at any point early in the season.

The only way anyone could have got First Dude was to claim him early on. Dizney never had any intention of selling him.

[Robert Fischer]

The only way anyone could have got First Dude was to claim him early on. Dizney never had any intention of selling him.

Gppd point , and he never officially ran for a tag.
Some of these owners get emotionally attached or excited about a prospect and strictly refuse to sell. Others need to receive high-end market value to consider and everything is always "on the table"..
Especially when you have a 3yo who runs and looks the part physically I can imagine that owners get the "fever" more often than you would think business to rule sound logic.:ThmbUp:

[Spalding No!]

I would take the blinkers off this horse and just let him run from slightly off the pace. He needs a target to run at.
Haven't all those things been tried with the horse in the past?

As far as his re-rallying in late stretch goes, I think its more a product of the horses in front of him slowing down a bit after making their winning moves (something he lacks).

He's decidely one-paced. Along those lines, some might suggest the BC Marathon but he probably just simply needs softer company right now. His connections have plenty of allowance conditions to play around with if they really think he's a serious horse, but my guess is that they'll just start over next year at GP after he runs 11th in the BC Dirt Classic.

Personally, I think he would be a welcome addition to the Discovery Handicap later this year.

[Robert Fischer]

Haven't all those things been tried with the horse in the past?

As far as his re-rallying in late stretch goes, I think its more a product of the horses in front of him slowing down a bit after making their winning moves (something he lacks).

He's decidely one-paced. Along those lines, some might suggest the BC Marathon but he probably just simply needs softer company right now. His connections have plenty of allowance conditions to play around with if they really think he's a serious horse, but my guess is that they'll just start over next year at GP after he runs 11th in the BC Dirt Classic.

Personally, I think he would be a welcome addition to the Discovery Handicap later this year.

sharp thoughts...

the marathon would be a "fun" way to go - hey he seems to have some stamina that is workable, contrary to some fans belief-speed is an asset at a distance, and the class is easier at least than the 9f-10f division... Not sure if he really has the potential there either though.

Discovery would be a suitable race to shoot for.

He initially made me think that if a more potent trainer had "moved him up" he would be a little more meaningful, but after a certain point of repetition, it seems like they "learn" to be non-competitive(may be a misconception). It's also not my favorite idea that trainers and vets are so vital to the success of everything less than the rare true cream of the crop.

as far as adjustments go , First Dude simply already had his DREAM situation in the Preakness. He had everything his way with the race, position, ride everything, he was simply outclassed by Lookin At Lucky(a legit leader in the division). He will probably NEVER have more things in his favor than the Preakness, and nothing(equipment or tactics) will approach that, aside from significant class drops.

[bisket]

sharp thoughts...

the marathon would be a "fun" way to go - hey he seems to have some stamina that is workable, contrary to some fans belief-speed is an asset at a distance, and the class is easier at least than the 9f-10f division... Not sure if he really has the potential there either though.

Discovery would be a suitable race to shoot for.

He initially made me think that if a more potent trainer had "moved him up" he would be a little more meaningful, but after a certain point of repetition, it seems like they "learn" to be non-competitive(may be a misconception). It's also not my favorite idea that trainers and vets are so vital to the success of everything less than the rare true cream of the crop.

as far as adjustments go , First Dude simply already had his DREAM situation in the Preakness. He had everything his way with the race, position, ride everything, he was simply outclassed by Lookin At Lucky(a legit leader in the division). He will probably NEVER have more things in his favor than the Preakness, and nothing(equipment or tactics) will approach that, aside from significant class drops.
they pretty much screwed the horse up trying to get into the derby. then after a tough loss in preakness, decided to run the horse back in belmont. i think thats where they lost the horse.

[joanied]

Guess I'll put in my two cents...
I thought A Little Warm would be just a bit short in this one (had him to show)...so I think he ran a very commendable race...someone mentioned he might not want to go longer, but he does have Alydar & Slew up close, so ya never know...
Morning Line (had him to place) is a Tiznow...they seem to take extra time, so Zito is doing it right...I doubt this win was a fluke, and if he stays sound and they continue to go slow, he'll be one to watch next year, IMO...
I love First Dude, and just knew he'd win this one...I thought maybe Robby A would suit him, but have decided maybe not, in fact, if they can get Gomez, he might be a better match for this big guy...he needs, IMO, a very strong rider...and, I beleive that Robby got him beat...he spent too much time in deep stretch trying to get between the other two, then for a split second he tried to go inside, changed his mind in mid stride, and yanked the colt to the outside, and that's when FD found his best...another two jumps, he wins by 1/2 length. He's too big to manuver well, and it's quite possible he's the kind that doesn't like to split horses. I'll forgive Robby since he never rode the horse before...but I really think if he'd just gone outside right away, he'd have won.
This horse needs some more time...if he was mine, I'd forget the Classic....
he might belong, but IMO, he'd need everything to set up more than perfect...like Lookin at Lucky, Zenyatta, QR & Blame not to run:D ...give him an easy spot or two in the next couple of months, so he can win one, then wrap up on him til next year.

Whew...that was a lot of typing:bang:

[WinterTriangle]

As far as his re-rallying in late stretch goes.

He's decidely one-paced.

I agree with Joanied. Dude is huge hunk o' horse. Once he gets checked or stops it's very hard to get rollin' again and takes him some time. Re-rallying is not going to work for him with only a few yards left to the race.

[GatetoWire]

Thanks for all the feedback on this forum!!

It will be interesting how these 3 perform down the road.

I really liked A Little Warm going into this one and when that 1:10.4 split popped up I thought he would really draw off and win easily.

He did hang for sure in the lane but I also thought that Gomez might have moved just a 100 feet too soon.

The weight and the pedigree probably didn't help the cause.

I am in the seconditis First Dude camp.....I just don't think he wants to win.....he has the body and if he can mature he might be a great 4 year old.

[Robert Fischer]

and, I beleive that Robby got him beat...he spent too much time in deep stretch trying to get between the other two, then for a split second he tried to go inside, changed his mind in mid stride, and yanked the colt to the outside, and that's when FD found his best...another two jumps, he wins by 1/2 length. He's too big to manuver well, and it's quite possible he's the kind that doesn't like to split horses. I'll forgive Robby since he never rode the horse before...but I really think if he'd just gone outside right away, he'd have won.

Lets be honest, while Albaraduh did some bone-headed riding into the 1st turn, First Dude ended up taking a passive role in the race and moving last after the 2 win contenders had a little mini duel. It looked like Morning Line would have outrun First Dude by more had A Little Warm not done all the work, and A Little Warm really came up empty in his own right and could have easily dusted First Dude had he not folded. First Dude never posed a winning threat.

[Bullet Plane]

Well,

I have to agree with Joanied on this one. Looks like Robby tried to force FD between horses - I don't know maybe the gap closed or- the horse didn't like running between horses- Then Robby took him around the other two and he is such a big lumbering colt- he couldn't get going again until it was too late. But he came on like a ton of bricks to almost win this thing. Would have, no question, with a better trip.

With a clean trip down the lane, he would have won for fun.

[bisket]

i attribute dude's "even running" to the fact i think he's been raced to frequently. alydar has a history of throwing sprinters. its not something out of the ordinary.....

[Robert Fischer]

i don't give upgrades for "closing a gap late vs tired rivals"

[Robert Fischer]

i attribute dude's "even running" to the fact i think he's been raced to frequently. alydar has a history of throwing sprinters. its not something out of the ordinary.....

Yea but I'm not sure First Dude has ever made a move in his life. It may be more a matter of his running style and lack of potency than anything subtle like recency and/or pedigree....

[Dahoss9698]

i attribute dude's "even running" to the fact i think he's been raced to frequently. alydar has a history of throwing sprinters. its not something out of the ordinary.....

You continue to be among the internet's best free entertainment. You've been brainwashed to think 1 start a month for a healthy horse is too frequently. He keeps picking up checks and while he doesn't like winning ran faster yesterday than he has all year.

Do horses that have been raced too frequently run their fastest race in the 9th of the year?

[PaceAdvantage]

You continue to be among the internet's best free entertainment. You've been brainwashed to think 1 start a month for a healthy horse is too frequently. He keeps picking up checks and while he doesn't like winning ran faster yesterday than he has all year.

Do horses that have been raced too frequently run their fastest race in the 9th of the year?Only winners run fast, or haven't you heard?

[bisket]

You continue to be among the internet's best free entertainment. You've been brainwashed to think 1 start a month for a healthy horse is too frequently. He keeps picking up checks and while he doesn't like winning ran faster yesterday than he has all year.

Do horses that have been raced too frequently run their fastest race in the 9th of the year?
its not brainwashing its called betting on the winner...

[classhandicapper]

About the only thing I took out of the race is that I'll probably be tempted to play Exhi out of this race if he drops into a weaker graded stake or minor stake.

Going into the race I thought Exhi was probably a half notch below First Dude and a hair below a Little Warm. I thought Morning Line was the most likely to improve because he was still lightly raced, going forward and had a blistering improved WO coming in.

I'm not familiar with all the horses that ran at PARX that day, but it sure seemed to me like a lot of riders were avoiding the rail all day. I suspect that was not the place to be. Exhi spent some time in there and I think he'll rebound well next time out.

[Dahoss9698]

its not brainwashing its called betting on the winner...

I don't even know what this means.

You said First Dude has been raced too frequently. I disagree and my reasoning is he ran faster Saturday Beyerwise (which you said you use) than he has all year. So what is your opinion based on?

[bisket]

About the only thing I took out of the race is that I'll probably be tempted to play Exhi out of this race if he drops into a weaker graded stake or minor stake.

Going into the race I thought Exhi was probably a half notch below First Dude and a hair below a Little Warm. I thought Morning Line was the most likely to improve because he was still lightly raced, going forward and had a blistering improved WO coming in.

I'm not familiar with all the horses that ran at PARX that day, but it sure seemed to me like a lot of riders were avoiding the rail all day. I suspect that was not the place to be. Exhi spent some time in there and I think he'll rebound well next time out.
that wasn't the only thing that hurt exhi. if you watch him enter the first turn he glided out a little and into warm. coming out of the turn for home and at the point for him go through on the inside he glided out just like before. i think his rider took him up and attempted to go outside. by that time the field got away from them. you could see exhi try accelerate, but when the targets got away from him he lost interest. he's an overlay against this field if he's outside horses and odds are 4 or 5 to 1 or longer. i'm not giving up on him at this level if the race figures to unfold in a way he's more comfortable with. i just think he needs to be outside horses...

[Dahoss9698]

Can I get odds on da bisket avoiding my question?

[bisket]

Can I get odds on da bisket avoiding my question?
maybe you shouldn't burn your bridges

to add to the last post:
or exhi could use a jock that caters to his deficiencies. instead of attempting to go through on the inside, maybe castellano would have been better off allowing exhi to drift out at that point. possibly a different outcome? in the right situation i'd still play him.

[Dahoss9698]

maybe you shouldn't burn your bridges

to add to the last post:
or exhi could use a jock that caters to his deficiencies. instead of attempting to go through on the inside, maybe castellano would have been better off allowing exhi to drift out at that point. possibly a different outcome? in the right situation i'd still play him.

Burn my bridges? Do you even know what that means?

It's a simple question really. I can't believe a sharp player like da bisket is having such a hard time with da question.

[cj]

Can I get odds on da bisket avoiding my question?

1 to 20.

[bisket]

Yea but I'm not sure First Dude has ever made a move in his life. It may be more a matter of his running style and lack of potency than anything subtle like recency and/or pedigree....
maybe what i consider an "even runner" might be a little different than your interpretation. dude is usually forwardly placed, and i don't consider that a characteristic of an even runner. dude usually gets the first 1/4 in 23 and change, and gets the 1/2 in the neighborhood of 47. i like to see 24 or slower for the 1/4 and 48 for the 1/2. lots of times they'll do that no matter the track condition or the pace of the others. hey maybe if dude ran like that he might be better play and have more left in the stretch? you very well might be correct and its not a matter of the way he's been campagned, and in this case i might be misguided. i just thought he was a better horse than what he's shown?

[Dahoss9698]

1 to 20.

Easy money

[joanied]

Well,

I have to agree with Joanied on this one. Looks like Robby tried to force FD between horses - I don't know maybe the gap closed or- the horse didn't like running between horses- Then Robby took him around the other two and he is such a big lumbering colt- he couldn't get going again until it was too late. But he came on like a ton of bricks to almost win this thing. Would have, no question, with a better trip.

With a clean trip down the lane, he would have won for fun.

I even watched it again...I recorded the race, so played it back in slow motion...and I'll stick to my guns on this one...with a good trip, without Robby screwing around behind those two horses, First Dude was the winner...I'm looking foward to his next start...and hope they pass on the Classic...I beleive FD will be a really, really good one as a 4 yr. old. He doesn't have 'seconidus'...he just needs a good trip and a strong rider...I said this beofre...I'd try him with Gomez on board.

[Bullet Plane]

Yep,

I also think they need to keep him off the lead especially in the stretch where he tends to idle when he gets in front. Keep him off the pace and make one late run.

[Robert Fischer]

I even watched it again...I recorded the race, so played it back in slow motion...and I'll stick to my guns on this one...with a good trip, without Robby screwing around behind those two horses, First Dude was the winner...I'm looking foward to his next start...and hope they pass on the Classic...I beleive FD will be a really, really good one as a 4 yr. old. He doesn't have 'seconidus'...he just needs a good trip and a strong rider...I said this beofre...I'd try him with Gomez on board.

please drop off 3d glasses in the basket at the exit

[bisket]

1 to 20.
guess you guys will have to find someone else to do your handicapping for you

[Headbanger]

that wasn't the only thing that hurt exhi. if you watch him enter the first turn he glided out a little and into warm. coming out of the turn for home and at the point for him go through on the inside he glided out just like before. i think his rider took him up and attempted to go outside. by that time the field got away from them. you could see exhi try accelerate, but when the targets got away from him he lost interest. he's an overlay against this field if he's outside horses and odds are 4 or 5 to 1 or longer. i'm not giving up on him at this level if the race figures to unfold in a way he's more comfortable with. i just think he needs to be outside horses...

Actually the biggest thing that hurt Exhi is that the horse stinks and lacks ability and I will bet doesn't win another stakes race on anything other than synthetics. On dirt Exhi is no better than a 50K claimer and if Pletcher tries to force him on the dirt he will not win another race.

[bisket]

sounds like you guys could use a hobby or something....

[Dahoss9698]

sounds like you guys could use a hobby or something....

This could have been over hours ago if you just admitted your opinion was faulty. One more time, why do you think First Dude has been raced too frequently? Defend your opinion for once.

[bisket]

This could have been over hours ago if you just admitted your opinion was faulty. One more time, why do you think First Dude has been raced too frequently? Defend your opinion for once.
so i'm the new obsession? discussing something with you is sorta likem this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if8dDNhaea0&feature=related

first dude.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBoyo5XydN8&feature=related

[Dahoss9698]

so i'm the new obsession? discussing something with you is sorta likem this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if8dDNhaea0&feature=related

first dude.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBoyo5XydN8&feature=related

No, you made a statement. I disagreed and gave you a reason for why I disagreed. You have yet to provide any sort of reason for your statement.

I get it, you don't have one. Fair enough.

[toetoe]

My source says that Gomez thinks 9 furlongs are too far. That said, he did win at 9 furlongs earler, I ... think ... ?

[joanied]

please drop off 3d glasses in the basket at the exit

You could do the same!