Who's REALLY getting the subsidies in NJ?

[affirmedny]

from Stan Bergstein's Column in DRF:

http://www.drf.com/news/two-voices-reason-call-help-new-jersey-horsemen


Bateman’s op-ed letter was published in CentralJersey.com. It states early on that “The focus on saving Atlantic City casinos embraced by Gov. Christie is flat-out wrong public policy. It flies in the face of a history of huge subsidies to Atlantic City….While the Hanson report talks of current Meadowlands and Sports Authority losses up to $30 million this year, nowhere does it discuss in detail the hundreds of millions of dollars of subsidies already poured into Atlantic City and the casino industry.”

Bateman then highlights a few. “The state’s tax on casino revenues is one of the lowest in the nation and a little more than half the casino tax in Pennsylvania. Gov. Whitman had a $300 million tunnel and roadway built to the Borgata casino; Gov. Florio ‘ordered’ the Sports Authority to build and operate (always at a loss) a new $275 million convention center in Atlantic City; later the west hall of the old convention center was rebuilt by the same authority for more than $100 million; a special train for gamblers from Philadelphia to Atlantic City was bought and paid for at New Jersey expense and operates annually at a loss, as does the ACES train express from New York; two new bus terminals were built (for the casinos, of course); and the huge state police presence in Atlantic City was not totally paid for by the casinos. The Atlantic City airport was improved with state and federal funds. When casinos comp gamblers in their rooms they do not pay the state hotel room tax – a big number loss each year to the state. No question that the casinos have enjoyed sweetheart relationships with all past governors and legislatures. Sad, but true. And now they want more and are still unwilling to compromise on slots at the Meadowlands, or on help for the horse industry – both essentially North Jersey concerns.”




As we Jerseyites have been saying, there's more to this story. The purse subsidies are sh*t compared to what the casinos have been getting.

[onefast99]

It seems as if it is the same approach for each and every governor, protect the casinos at all costs. There may be a strong message sent to the politicians this time that AC isn't getting bailed out anymore. NJ needs casino expansion to the north and the Meadowlands is one of the most desirable locations for a casino.

[The_Knight_Sky]

There may be a strong message sent to the politicians this time that AC isn't getting bailed out anymore.





Two nagging questions every citizen in the state must know:

a) Why aren't the casinos in Atlantic City contributing to the state treasury
at the same levels as neighboring Pennsylvania and Connecticut?

b) How much did the horse racing bettors in the state
(and around the country via simulcasting) give to Trenton through the state's cut of the parimutuel takeout?

[redshift1]

It seems as if it is the same approach for each and every governor, protect the casinos at all costs. There may be a strong message sent to the politicians this time that AC isn't getting bailed out anymore. NJ needs casino expansion to the north and the Meadowlands is one of the most desirable locations for a casino.


Isn't the planned rebuilding of AC a huge bailout ? Who's sending a message?

[onefast99]

Isn't the planned rebuilding of AC a huge bailout ? Who's sending a message?
Once they take taxpayer dollars it is.

[thespaah]

Loks to me as though the casinos gobble up far more in services and gifts fro the taxpayers than the casinos generate in revenue BACK to the taxapyers.
The residents of NJ should be beating ploghshares into swords, marching on the State Capitol demanding to know what is going on and why so many politicians and casino management people have not been serving time in the State Penitentiary.
The casinos should cost NJ taxpeyrs NOTHING. The casinos should be ADDING to the State Treasury and a percentage of those monies sent to the taxpayers in the form of tax relief. The State should be demanding the casinos reimuburse the State for all projects mentioned eariler in this thread.
If the casinos which do not in any way benefit the taxpayers, cannot survive on their own, let them go out of business.

[lamboguy]

monmouth is the only place that had an increase in human population in the whole racing industry. when they came up with the idea of a boutique meet i honestly thought it was a terrible idea. they proved me wrong once again, i liked it.

as far as atlantic city, that is a rat infested place that should get washed up to the sea as far away from this world as possible.

[redshift1]

Interesting article on a potential beneficiary of the Casino bailout. Remember the guy Nicki Scarfo who controlled the cement contracts via the unions.



http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/nj_grants_license_to_mob-tied.html

[affirmedny]

more good stuff from bergstein:

That possibility was not ignored in another report that surfaced last week. Titled "A More Robust Analysis is Needed Before New Jersey Maps a Plan for the Future of our Gaming, Sports, and Entertainment Industries," it was written by Richard Lee for the Hall Institute of Public Policy, a non-partisan, not-for-profit foundation that studies social, economic, educational, and cultural issues. Lee points out early in his 11-page analysis that its purpose "is to point out some obvious shortcomings in the Hanson Report and some of the arguments being made so that discussion and debate can continue and more robust solutions can be considered by the legislature and the governor." He acknowledges that horse racing in New Jersey has survived in large measure because of purse enhancements provided by the casinos. He notes that those who have taken up the cause of the casinos now refer to the enhancements as subsidies, arguing that the subsidies are supporting a dying industry.

"These are blatant mischacterizations," Lee writes, "and need to be addressed.

In addressing them, he says, "Any strategy that relies upon keeping slot machines out of the Meadowlands to revitalize Atlantic City is based upon a false premise. If, however, it is so important to keep convenience gaming out of the tracks in New Jersey (contrary to most other tracks in the country), then maybe the purse enhancement is the way to go and should be continued. But it is not a subsidy. It is a cost for protectionism."


http://www.drf.com/news/differing-views-new-jerseys-racing-woes

[Robert Goren]

They made very good case for shutting down the AC casinos, but no case for keeping Monmouth and the Meadowlands open. If stand alone casinos in NJ can't make it, what makes anyone think that one with a race track attached to it would?

[The_Knight_Sky]

If stand alone casinos in NJ can't make it, what makes anyone think that one with a race track attached to it would?





Location !

The Meadowlands is a 15 minute drive from the heart of the universe.

[onefast99]

Location !

The Meadowlands is a 15 minute drive from the heart of the universe.
We have beat this topic to death, now it is up to Drazin to formulate a plan that will keep racing in NJ going forward. The same old logic is being used by the politicians and Governor who would like to make Atlantic City into something it can never be, a top resort destination. While Pa, Del and now NY gain momentum in the drive towards capturing those elusive gambling dollars NJ continues to debate its future with an antiquated casino commission and poorly assembled Governors panel as well as several state representatives who are questionable themselves.

[Canarsie]

We have beat this topic to death, now it is up to Drazin to formulate a plan that will keep racing in NJ going forward. The same old logic is being used by the politicians and Governor who would like to make Atlantic City into something it can never be, a top resort destination. While Pa, Del and now NY gain momentum in the drive towards capturing those elusive gambling dollars NJ continues to debate its future with an antiquated casino commission and poorly assembled Governors panel as well as several state representatives who are questionable themselves.

I wrote to one of my elected representatives on this issue and asked him what qualifications did Al Leiter have to be on this panel. I stated can you promise me that a guy who has probably been "comped" his whole professional career won't continue to get that from the casinos after the report. He didn't answer that part of my letter all he said is that he supported the governors position (including AC) that racing should be privatized. He's from Monmouth no less and has lost my long time vote for him.

[The_Knight_Sky]

I wrote to one of my elected representatives on this issue
and asked him what qualifications did Al Leiter have to be on this panel.



The entire panel that produced The Hanson Report needs to be scrutinized pertaining their qualifications for the job. As well as who did the "hiring" for this review that has brought about state-wide divisiveness.

What is laughable is that Mr. Hanson is proposing the relocation of The Meadowlands to the dumpy Encap site.

There is nothing wrong with the current location of The Meadowlands Racetrack.

The demolishing of this horse racing venue is step one before the casinos move onto the premises at the Sports Complex. That cannot ever be allowed to happen.

[onefast99]

The entire panel that produced The Hanson Report needs to be scrutinized pertaining their qualifications for the job. As well as who did the "hiring" for this review that has brought about state-wide divisiveness.

What is laughable is that Mr. Hanson is proposing the relocation of The Meadowlands to the dumpy Encap site.

There is nothing wrong with the current location of The Meadowlands Racetrack.

The demolishing of this horse racing venue is step one before the casinos move onto the premises at the Sports Complex. That cannot ever be allowed to happen.
Hanson has zero knowledge about the horse racing industry. The comments on moving the track to the new site, that was one of the most ridiculous statements anyone could have ever made.

[Stillriledup]

Location !

The Meadowlands is a 15 minute drive from the heart of the universe.

There's a lot of big money in that 15 minute radius that would be more than happy to leave some of it there. The amt of money they're leaving on the table is staggering.

[The_Knight_Sky]

Hanson has zero knowledge about the horse racing industry. The comments on moving the track to the new site, that was one of the most ridiculous statements anyone could have ever made.




Agreed. When he mentioned Encap, it was tipping your hand at the big poker game.

Greedy, selfish people planning to move into the sports complex unobstructed ! There will come a point in time when the notion of Atlantic City as a "family-oriented tourist destination" gets thrown out into the trash can.
http://i54.tinypic.com/2122o7.gif This ain't the 1970's anymore.

[Robert Goren]

Location !

The Meadowlands is a 15 minute drive from the heart of the universe.If that is true then the Meadowlands should be able to make it as race track on its own. The fact that they can't speaks volumes. So far all you have done is make a really strong case for a casino there without the race track.

[The Hawk]

If that is true then the Meadowlands should be able to make it as race track on its own. The fact that they can't speaks volumes. So far all you have done is make a really strong case for a casino there without the race track.

Yes, it "speaks volumes". It speaks volumes about your lack of intelligence.

To start, they CAN make it on their own, they did it for 30 years. We don't know if they can do it now or not because they don't have a fair chance under the current system.

[Robert Goren]

Yes, it "speaks volumes". It speaks volumes about your lack of intelligence.

To start, they CAN make it on their own, they did it for 30 years. We don't know if they can do it now or not because they don't have a fair chance under the current system.From what I have gathered, the Meadowlands can't make it without turning itself into a racino and a casino there would make a lot more money without the race track. Tell what do I have wrong.

[Robert Fischer]

scarf inc

[onefast99]

If that is true then the Meadowlands should be able to make it as race track on its own. The fact that they can't speaks volumes. So far all you have done is make a really strong case for a casino there without the race track.
You seem to think that the casinos have some sort of a first right to the Meadowlands property without the racing included, the NJSEA owns and operates the facility they will not relenquish the rights to it, maybe you should do a little research before posting non-sense on this subject.

[The_Knight_Sky]

The demolishing of this horse racing venue is step one before the casinos move onto the premises at the Sports Complex.

That cannot ever be allowed to happen.



It looks like Mr. Finley's been reading PA.
Excerpt from page 9 of the Oct. 14th edition of Harness Racing update (http://www.harnessracingupdate.com/restricted/pdf/hru/hru101014.pdf):

http://i51.tinypic.com/2ms204i.jpg

[onefast99]

It looks like Mr. Finley's been reading PA.
Excerpt from page 9 of the Oct. 14th edition of Harness Racing update (http://www.harnessracingupdate.com/restricted/pdf/hru/hru101014.pdf):



http://i51.tinypic.com/2ms204i.jpg
Once more, the NJSEA will not relinquish the rights to the Meadowlands complex to the casino industry under any order from the Governor or any elected official.

[The_Knight_Sky]

Once more, the NJSEA will not relinquish the rights to the Meadowlands complex to the casino industry under any order from the Governor or any elected official.




The mere fact that all thoroughbred racing is now consolidated at Monmouth Park helps the casino industry to target (and oust) the Harness Racing industry.

It's easier to oust one tenant (at The Meadowlands) than it is two.

It would help if the thoroughbreds ran a boutique meet from Labor Day to Halloween at The Meadowlands. The weather's been great for it this year.

[affirmedny]

The mere fact that all thoroughbred racing is now consolidated at Monmouth Park helps the casino industry to target (and oust) the Harness Racing industry.

It's easier to oust one tenant (at The Meadowlands) than it is two.

It would help if the thoroughbreds ran a boutique meet from Labor Day to Halloween at The Meadowlands. The weather's been great for it this year.

The weather is great at this time almost every year. It's preposterous that this facility is closed from August until now (and open in February!).

[The_Knight_Sky]

The weather is great at this time almost every year. It's preposterous
that this facility is closed from August until now (and open in February!).




Well part of the blame should fall on the horsemen.
If they'd rather race entirely at Monmouth instead of The Meadowlands they're not helping their cause over the long haul.

If a Big M racino is ever built, do you think the Monmouth horsemen should be entitled to a strengthened purse structure funded from a racino venue that they no longer race at? I think not.

If in the future Monmouth Park is privatized and is no longer a part of the NJSEA, the horsemen should not be counting on handouts in the future.
It is in the best interests of Monmouth horsemen to be supporting the Meadowlands racetrack in the autumn. :ThmbUp:

[peakpros]

Well part of the blame should fall on the horsemen.
If they'd rather race entirely at Monmouth instead of The Meadowlands they're not helping their cause over the long haul.




I dont have the interst in politics that you and onefast99 has. And I thank you for bringing up relevent info

But keep in mind that last year the horseman were given no CHOICE in the matter.

And this is what I have been saying all year was unfair.

[The_Knight_Sky]

I dont have the interst in politics that you and onefast99 has. And I thank you for bringing up relevent info

But keep in mind that last year the horseman were given no CHOICE in the matter.

And this is what I have been saying all year was unfair.

I think what we had was a situation where three leaders Drazin - Forbes - Kulina were able to get the NJSEA to buy into the plan. A plan that was thought of many years in advance.

The horsemen did (somewhat) have a choice - help support the program for one summer/autumn or race outside the state temporarily. At this time, I find it hard to fault them. They wanted to prove that horse racing is worth saving in NJ. They have done so. Can more be done. Sure.

The state-wide failure to proceed with only 3 of 15 OTW licenses after 10 years is a glaring mistake. The responsible parties did not plan for the future. :ThmbDown:

The ridiculous nonsense of letting Greenwood (Philly Park's owner) get by every year without offering at least four weeks of racing and making refurbishments to the historic Atlantic City racetrack is another gaffe.

I could go on and on but let's make it clear. The supplements the casinos were paying the racetracks were in exchange not to lobby for slots at The Meadowlands. That is the concept of "protectionism".

If this tactic is curtailed in 2011, then I'd have to support the racetracks' efforts to let the public to vote on a Meadowlands racino. I am hopeful that such a racino would also help Freehold and Aycee in a big way. Those two tracks should not be forgotten as they have been.

[Robert Goren]

I want to be perfectly clear. I don't care if there is a casino or a race track or both in northern NJ. But if they are going to have both they should not be linked financially. Racinos will eventually end the sport. As soon as one opens they marginalize the horse racing operation and then when the timing is right they will find a way to cut themselves lose from the track. Once the casino industry get control over every race track in the country(and they are very close, you don't need 2 hands to count the number of states without racinos), they will start closing them. Once the first one is closed they will all be gone within 5 years. The only hope horse racing has is to become self sufficient. Once a casino get its fingers into a track, they will make sure that will never happen.

[onefast99]

The mere fact that all thoroughbred racing is now consolidated at Monmouth Park helps the casino industry to target (and oust) the Harness Racing industry.

It's easier to oust one tenant (at The Meadowlands) than it is two.

It would help if the thoroughbreds ran a boutique meet from Labor Day to Halloween at The Meadowlands. The weather's been great for it this year.
The cost factor weighs in heavily here. The amount of top soil brought in to cover the harness track, setting up the rails and keeping the facility going as well as the cost of transporting the horses from MP to the Meadowlands are enough to make the decision to race at MP in the fall an easy one.

[The_Knight_Sky]

The cost factor weighs in heavily here. The amount of top soil brought in
to cover the harness track, setting up the rails and keeping the facility going
as well as the cost of transporting the horses from MP to the Meadowlands
are enough to make the decision to race at MP in the fall an easy one.




For 33 consecutive autumns racing at The Meadowlands were
conducted, but now according to the horsemen and the NJSEA it has become "problematic".

The Meadowlands should have on-track stabling option available,
even though the majority of the participants would ship in from the farms/surrounding states.

The wasteful spending on ridiculous projects like the Wildwood Convention Center would have been better spent by keeping the racing money at home.