class relief: Grade 1 winner Presious Passion returns

[The_Knight_Sky]

Wednesday at Del Park
http://i52.tinypic.com/2uemhds.jpg

[The_Knight_Sky]

Q: How does one train a front running turf marathoner for a prep race such as this one?

A: Go with two long works.

_____________________________________

Presious Passion
03/05/2003 G Royal Anthem Princesa's Passion

09/14/2010 MTH 8F 1:44.20 Dirt Good B
09/08/2010 MTH 5F 1:04.00 Dirt Fast B


Should be enough right :confused:

[46zilzal]

When top class ones come back in what appears to be an almost WALK OVER situation, it is a double edged sword to stay away from. They aren't going to push and they are usually under-laid big time....

[The_Knight_Sky]

Looks like he won't be the same horse anymore.
Presious Passion relinquished the lead on the backside and hung on for fourth.

_______________________________

9th Race

Next Post 5:24 Off: 4:57 | 1 1/16 Miles (Turf) | 3 Year Olds And Up | Allowance Optional Claiming ($65,000) | Purse: $42,350

# Horse Jockey Weight Win Place Show
1 Mikoshi Jara F 117 6.60 4.20 2.80
3 Hugo Napravnik A R 117 3.80 3.80
4 Silver Eagle Saez G 117 6.40

Times in 100ths: :23.04 :46.72 1:09.70 1:34.51 1:40.86
Scratched: March to Victory and Safety Valve
Also ran: Presious Passion, Crimson Comic and Colonel Rutledge
Winning Trainer: Matz Michael R - Owner: Matsumoto, Ltd.

$2 Exacta (OFF TRACK 1-3) Paid $23.00
$2 Exacta (ON TRACK 1-3) Paid $25.60
$2 Trifecta (1-3-4) Paid $225.20

[jldonah]

I am still unsure whether to conclude he just couldn't keep up when he was getting overtaken or was being given a workout snag by the rider. He seemed to be full of confidence and looked like a king compared to the others in the paddock.
I didn't think he was in Del Park to win, but I had a bittersweet moment collecting a token bet on his loss. I hope he can win a few more big races because his running style is so exciting for a classic distance turf racer.

[Dahoss9698]

That trip to Dubai might have been a bad idea.

[jldonah]

That trip to Dubai might have been a bad idea.

I don't have any grounds for my opinion except a terrible memory, but it seems like not many American trainers are able to take their champions to and fro successfully, whether to France, GB or Dubai--Curlin is the (single big race) exception that proves the rule. I would love to learn the angles of long distance success--it would be great to know when the next Daylami or Goldikova is coming around.

[cj]

I don't have any grounds for my opinion except a terrible memory, but it seems like not many American trainers are able to take their champions to and fro successfully, whether to France, GB or Dubai--Curlin is the (single big race) exception that proves the rule. I would love to learn the angles of long distance success--it would be great to know when the next Daylami or Goldikova is coming around.

Plenty more horses have returned and done just fine, especially dirt horses. It has been a long time since any of our decent turf horses did anything overseas.

[jldonah]

That's a reassuring response. Too much doom and gloom about US racing so reality will buoy us up during the storm.

[Dahoss9698]

I don't have any grounds for my opinion except a terrible memory, but it seems like not many American trainers are able to take their champions to and fro successfully, whether to France, GB or Dubai--Curlin is the (single big race) exception that proves the rule. I would love to learn the angles of long distance success--it would be great to know when the next Daylami or Goldikova is coming around.

This is just an opinion, but the Europeans are so much better than we are on turf, that it's not a surprise our horses usually struggle when racing in Europe. Not being able to use Lasix is probably a factor also.

Dubai is another issue. A lot of horses come back a shell of their former selves and I don't think anyone really knows why, other than the long trip.

[jldonah]

That's a reassuring response. Too much doom and gloom about US racing so reality will buoy us up during the storm.

After re-reading my own post to CJ's response, I realize some will think I was trying to be a sarcastic smartass. Not at all the intention...mea culpa.

[PhantomOnTour]

Gio Ponti is a recent example of a North American returning from Dubai to run well, but he isn't as good as he used to be. How did Silver Charm do when he got back?
There's others...but I can't think of any.

[letswastemoney]

Gio Ponti is a recent example of a North American returning from Dubai to run well, but he isn't as good as he used to be. How did Silver Charm do when he got back?
There's others...but I can't think of any.
The Usual QT is about the same.

[affirmedny]

Looks like he won't be the same horse anymore.
Presious Passion relinquished the lead on the backside and hung on for fourth.

_______________________________

9th Race

Next Post 5:24 Off: 4:57 | 1 1/16 Miles (Turf) | 3 Year Olds And Up | Allowance Optional Claiming ($65,000) | Purse: $42,350

# Horse Jockey Weight Win Place Show
1 Mikoshi Jara F 117 6.60 4.20 2.80
3 Hugo Napravnik A R 117 3.80 3.80
4 Silver Eagle Saez G 117 6.40

Times in 100ths: :23.04 :46.72 1:09.70 1:34.51 1:40.86
Scratched: March to Victory and Safety Valve
Also ran: Presious Passion, Crimson Comic and Colonel Rutledge
Winning Trainer: Matz Michael R - Owner: Matsumoto, Ltd.

$2 Exacta (OFF TRACK 1-3) Paid $23.00
$2 Exacta (ON TRACK 1-3) Paid $25.60
$2 Trifecta (1-3-4) Paid $225.20

That's a very fast race for Delaware, no? There was a 1 1/16 maiden race earlier that went 5 seconds slower.

[senortout]

That's a very fast race for Delaware, no? There was a 1 1/16 maiden race earlier that went 5 seconds slower.
oh yeah they were motoring for sure. Think the days of that one running off by hisself are gonna be few and far between from here on out. Even if he hasn't lost a step, the way to beat him is with a team running at him in stages and very few have been all that willing to take up the chase. But that has changed. It will be good for racing though. Standardbreds have some sort of rule against going too slow I think? One thing they do use at the trots is a timer which displays the splits
for all the drivers to see.

So much for the old adage..."he's got a clock in his head"

What do you think? How on earth can the quickest horse in the race get ahead of all the others and then slow things way down, and still be leading the race......you will hear Dirken for example saying how perfectly content that horse sitting back in fourth is, next thing you know, that phony pace has ruined his chances.

[point given]

oh yeah they were motoring for sure. Think the days of that one running off by hisself are gonna be few and far between from here on out. Even if he hasn't lost a step, the way to beat him is with a team running at him in stages and very few have been all that willing to take up the chase. But that has changed. It will be good for racing though. Standardbreds have some sort of rule against going too slow I think? One thing they do use at the trots is a timer which displays the splits
for all the drivers to sLee.

So much for the old adage..."he's got a clock in his head"

What do you think? How on earth can the quickest horse in the race get ahead of all the others and then slow things way down, and still be leading the race......you will hear Dirken for example saying how perfectly content that horse sitting back in fourth is, next thing you know, that phony pace has ruined his chances.

It was a 1 1/16 th race not 1 3/8 so Hugo and Mikoshi were used to a faster pace , unlike the longer race rivals.PP still had motored off by 5L into the clubhouse turn only to be collared by Hugo at the 1/2 mile pole. He only went off at 4/5 so more than a few werea bit skeptical in not pounding him down further. his glory days may be behind him now as he now has 2 poor races in a row yet he was coming off a layoff; but he is a really neat horse who I've had the pleasure of watching a few times with that will to win finish that one loves to see.

[46zilzal]

If a pace scenario dictates that a horse is at a serious disadvantage, class may have nothing to do with that loss, only a bad match up.

[jldonah]

Talking about this with a friend today and he said that Delaware's turf may be pretty soft even when called hard/firm, but that shouldn't be any sort of excuse for PP.
If Trujillo hadn't traveled down to ride Hartman's horses, what do you imagine Presious Passion's odds would have been?--maybe 7-5 instead?

[classhandicapper]

A little off topic, but the quality of the European turf horses was mentioned.

I don't know enough about the biology and development of horses to know if this is true, but if it is it might say more about the gap between the US and Europe than we realize.

My niece owns a jumper that is a former thoroughbred.

The horse does everything it's supposed to do really well except when it has to do them clockwise.

The horse was examined by someone that "supposedly" could figure out the problem and he said the horses muscles, coordination etc.. were more developed on one side than the other because of its experience as a racehorse always running counter clockwise and it knew it was incapable of executing some things going the other way.

Conversations about horses not being familiar with running the opposite way when they come to the US are fairly common. But I never heard anyone suggest that a horse actually develops its muscles and coordination better on one side than the other because of running the turns one way or the other most of the time.

If that's true, then the gap between European turf horses and US turf horses may be even bigger than we think because they are even more disadvantaged than many think (or at least I thought).

That would also account for some of the horrid races by US based turf horses when they try to challenge the best turf horses going clockwise.

It's almost like the Europeans are beating us with their left hands. :lol:

Like I said, I have no idea if this is true, but it seems reasonable and is certainly an interesting theory.

[jldonah]

"The horse does everything it's supposed to do really well except when it has to do them clockwise."


In addition, think of the advantage young horses racing in Europe get in sprints that are straight. Surely less chance of injury while bones are lengthening and muscles, tendons and ligaments are competing for oxygen. Carrying weight while running around a turf course turn has got to put tons of stress on the outer limbs.

[point given]

Talking about this with a friend today and he said that Delaware's turf may be pretty soft even when called hard/firm, but that shouldn't be any sort of excuse for PP.
If Trujillo hadn't traveled down to ride Hartman's horses, what do you imagine Presious Passion's odds would have been?--maybe 7-5 instead?

If the turf was soft, it would be an excuse for PP as Hartman has mentioned before that he doesnot like it and has scratched before for that reason if i remember right. She maynot have had much of a choice to get a race into him as a prep around 2 turns as monmouth has limited races and Belmont is one turn. Who knows :confused:

[RXB]

If that's true, then the gap between European turf horses and US turf horses may be even bigger than we think because they are even more disadvantaged than many think (or at least I thought).

That would also account for some of the horrid races by US based turf horses when they try to challenge the best turf horses going clockwise.

It's almost like the Europeans are beating us with their left hands. :lol:

Like I said, I have no idea if this is true, but it seems reasonable and is certainly an interesting theory.

There's no doubt that turning in the opposite direction requires different muscles. I can tell that when I run clockwise on a running track instead of the usual counterclockwise.

Should be noted, of course, that many Euro courses/races are lefthanded (counter-clockwise) so it isn't necessarily foreign to the Euro horses to turn in that direction. I would think it might be more of a disadvantage to North American horses to try racing on a righthanded course, as they get no experience here in that regard.

[Jasonm921]

Pressious Passion is seven years old and is probably not a Grade 1 horse anymore but he sure is fun to watch when he is right.

[joanied]

I hope he gets right again...I felt really bad about this race...but they sure didn't give him a break at all...I'm still bummed about him just getting nailed last year at Breeders Cup...that was tough to take!!

[SmartyLane]

I didn't like to see that race the other day either. PP is one of my favorites over the last few years.

I remember standing on the rail at last year's Breeders Cup, and I said to my group to watch PP, he is going to be ahead by 10 or more......and he is going to win this race. The guy next to me so he had no chance after a 1/2. I told him, just watch, he's gonna get this. I thought I was right till the end.

I just love a horse that goes out and runs as hard as they can, and just dig in at the end. Regardless if his best days are over, he will always be one of my guys!!

[jldonah]

Knickerbocker Stakes (G3) 9F Turf
# Horse
1 War Hoot
2 Leading On
3 Presious Passion
4 Whatsthescript (IRE)
5 Wesley
6 Interpatation
7 Baletti
8 Midnight Mischief
9 Violon Sacre
10 Operation Red Dawn
11 Barrier Reef -MTO
12 Discreet Treasure -MTO
13 Marilyn's Guy -MTO