Union Thugs shut down jobs

[JustRalph]

http://www.iww.org/en/node/5185

They make freakin Sandwiches............and they have a Union stopping a new outlet from being built.......delayed construction


MINNEAPOLIS - Jimmy John's franchise owners Mike and Rob Mulligan awoke to an unpleasant surprise last week as employees disrupted construction of the newest store in the chain with picket lines.

The picketing sandwich workers appealed to members of Minneapolis building trades unions working on the new store to down their tools until the Mulligans agree to meet with the newly-formed Jimmy Johns Workers Union.

“If Mike and Rob Mulligan have $300,000 to open another Jimmy Johns, then they have the money to meet our demands for a decent wage, consistent hours, and basic fairness at work. If they're not going to meet with us, then we have no choice but to hit them where it hurts. We are happy with the outcome of today's action– construction at the site was delayed for about an hour,” said Davis Ritsema, a member of the union.

[delayjf]

In long Beach, Police and firefighters would not agree to a pay freeze which then mandated pay raises this year in accordence with the current contract - as a result Long Beach was forced to layoff About 80 police and fire fighters - I wonder what the low guys on the union toetum pole think of their union now.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/09/long-beach-police-fire-layoffs.html

[JustRalph]

California police and firemen retire with 95 percent pensions in most places

NY Cops do too........ and they wonder why it's unsustainable.

[mostpost]

http://www.iww.org/en/node/5185

They make freakin Sandwiches............and they have a Union stopping a new outlet from being built.......delayed construction


MINNEAPOLIS - Jimmy John's franchise owners Mike and Rob Mulligan awoke to an unpleasant surprise last week as employees disrupted construction of the newest store in the chain with picket lines.

The picketing sandwich workers appealed to members of Minneapolis building trades unions working on the new store to down their tools until the Mulligans agree to meet with the newly-formed Jimmy Johns Workers Union.

“If Mike and Rob Mulligan have $300,000 to open another Jimmy Johns, then they have the money to meet our demands for a decent wage, consistent hours, and basic fairness at work. If they're not going to meet with us, then we have no choice but to hit them where it hurts. We are happy with the outcome of today's action– construction at the site was delayed for about an hour,” said Davis Ritsema, a member of the union.
Not union thugs. Decent, hardworking Americans who will not be pushed around. Workers exercising their rights under the United States Constitution to organize for better pay and working conditions.
It is really pitiable how you parrot phrases like "Union Thugs" without ever thinking for yourself. Your jargon might work with non thinkers like Tom and Boxcar; it doesn't work with the intelligent minority.
Maybe if Mike and Rob Mulligan treated their employees decently they would not have to worry about shutdowns.

[newtothegame]

Not union thugs. Decent, hardworking Americans who will not be pushed around. Workers exercising their rights under the United States Constitution to organize for better pay and working conditions.
It is really pitiable how you parrot phrases like "Union Thugs" without ever thinking for yourself. Your jargon might work with non thinkers like Tom and Boxcar; it doesn't work with the intelligent minority.
Maybe if Mike and Rob Mulligan treated their employees decently they would not have to worry about shutdowns.

Mosty...your so pitiful it isnt even funny. You say "maybe if mike and Rob Mulligan treated their employees decently they would not have to worry about shutdowns"....
So, please tell us how much Mike and Rob pay their employees? How much are the benefits they provide? What type of working conditions do they have?
If your gonna makea statement like the above, I am sure you can show us how their conditions (treatment) is not decent...right?

[bigmack]

Not union thugs. Decent, hardworking Americans who will not be pushed around. Workers exercising their rights under the United States Constitution to organize for better pay and working conditions.
It is really pitiable how you parrot phrases like "Union Thugs" without ever thinking for yourself. Your jargon might work with non thinkers like Tom and Boxcar; it doesn't work with the intelligent minority.
Boy, you're on a high horse today. Intelligent minority/non-thinkers.

Tell us Einstein, why did they apply & take the job if they don't want to work for the wage that was offered? Is it because they're opening new stores they 'don't want to be pushed around?'

[mostpost]

Boy, you're on a high horse today. Intelligent minority/non-thinkers.

Tell us Einstein, why did they apply & take the job if they don't want to work for the wage that was offered? Is it because they're opening new stores they 'don't want to be pushed around?'
Oh Hell, I meant intelligent majority. Of which I am apparently not a member. :blush: :blush:
They probably took the job because, thanks to the disastrous Republican policies, there aren't any other jobs available. Just because they took the job, does not mean they can't improve their lot. In any case, it appears that they were seeking recognition as opposed to any specific benefits.

[bigmack]

Just because they took the job, does not mean they can't improve their lot.
Improve their lot by demanding a higher wage for the 'skilled' job of making a sandwich?> :D

They can improve their lot by finding another job and the employer can improve their business by holding a job fair.

Presto!

[delayjf]

Workers exercising their rights under the United States Constitution to organize for better pay and working conditions.

Fine, and the recently laid off Police / firefighters have the right to file for unemployment due to the greed of their Union leadership. Not to mention the fact that now Long Beach will be a more dangerous place to live. Mean while, Progressive state legislators attempt to outlaw a cities right to file for bankruptcy.

[mostpost]

Mosty...your so pitiful it isnt even funny. You say "maybe if mike and Rob Mulligan treated their employees decently they would not have to worry about shutdowns"....
So, please tell us how much Mike and Rob pay their employees? How much are the benefits they provide? What type of working conditions do they have?
If your gonna makea statement like the above, I am sure you can show us how their conditions (treatment) is not decent...right?
OK, the statement "maybe if mike and Rob Mulligan treated their employees decently they would not have to worry about shutdowns"....
Was maybe one I should not have made. I don't know that they treat their employees poorly. On the other hand, you don't know they treat them well.
Either way, the employees have the right to organize. If the Mulligans don't want to negotiate in good faith or negotiate at all, then it's time for the pickets.
You did notice that the story said construction was halted for one hour. It looks like the union was just trying to get the Mulligans attention.

Please tell me why JustRalph had to phrase it as "Union Thugs Shut Down Jobs" Why could he not have just said Union workers picket job site. Why did he even have to bring it up? I'll tell you why. It's because JR has an irrational hatred of unions based on lies he has been told by corporate America and the Republican Party. Of course now those lies are no longer good enough for the Koch Brothers so they created the Tea Party.

[mostpost]

In long Beach, Police and firefighters would not agree to a pay freeze which then mandated pay raises this year in accordence with the current contract - as a result Long Beach was forced to layoff About 80 police and fire fighters - I wonder what the low guys on the union toetum pole think of their union now.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/09/long-beach-police-fire-layoffs.html
Yet another example of one of you posting something and providing a link. Then, when we go to the story, we find the story does not confirm what you wrote; in fact it contradicts what you wrote.
You wrote:
In long Beach, Police and firefighters would not agree to a pay freeze which then mandated pay raises this year in accordence with the current contract
The story says:
City officials, however, say some of the cuts could be avoided if employee unions agree to forgo raises previously approved in existing contracts.

“We are still in active negotiations with the police and fire unions,” said Tom Modica, manager of government affairs for Long Beach. “If a successful compromise could be reached, certain parts of the reduction will not go into effect.”
You wrote:
as a result Long Beach was forced to layoff About 80 police and fire fighters
Has not happened yet (See Above)
You wrote:
as a result Long Beach was forced to layoff About 80 police and fire fighters -
The story says:
Officials say they hope most of the cuts will not require layoffs but will be accomplished through attrition
To summarize, you said the unions refused to accept a pay freeze when in fact negotiations are ongoing. You said the layoffs were an accomplished fact when they have not begun if they ever do. You shed crocadile tears for the firemen and policemen with the least seniority, even though the Long Beach city officials clearly said the plan was to reduce the force through attrition. You misspelled totem. :lol: :lol:

[bigmack]

You misspelled totem. :lol: :lol:
Check your crocodile, WiseArse.

[newtothegame]

OK, the statement "maybe if mike and Rob Mulligan treated their employees decently they would not have to worry about shutdowns"....
Was maybe one I should not have made. I don't know that they treat their employees poorly. On the other hand, you don't know they treat them well.
Either way, the employees have the right to organize. If the Mulligans don't want to negotiate in good faith or negotiate at all, then it's time for the pickets.
You did notice that the story said construction was halted for one hour. It looks like the union was just trying to get the Mulligans attention.

Please tell me why JustRalph had to phrase it as "Union Thugs Shut Down Jobs" Why could he not have just said Union workers picket job site. Why did he even have to bring it up? I'll tell you why. It's because JR has an irrational hatred of unions based on lies he has been told by corporate America and the Republican Party. Of course now those lies are no longer good enough for the Koch Brothers so they created the Tea Party.

Why he used the term "thugs"...I cant speak for ralph. What I can do is tell you I would of used the SAME term. And since you like spin, you should appreciate this one....

Whats the matter with employees talking to management and finding out why they arent making a certain salary?

Whats the matter with employees taking and using some initiative to stand out and make their value more to the company and therefor EARNING an increase?

As for a right to organize....sure they have the right. But you are so one "eyed" (meaning you look at things from one side), that you don't see the disadvantage organizing puts an employer at. I thought you said you wanted FAIR? Or is it that you only want fair when it applies to YOUR perspective?

Organizing forces in most cases an employer who wants to stay in business to negotiate whether or not its deserved. If they do not cave into union demands, their business goes down the tubes. No employer wants to have their employees walk off the job. And thats NOT to say that ALL employees are deserving.

Quite honestly, in those instances I am sure the employer would gladly let some of the non productive employees go. But thwey run the risk of losing the good as well when organzing happens. There is nothing fair about organizing from the company point of view.

Sure the employees love it...because the slackers (and you and I both know that EVERY union has them) benefit from the hard workers as well.

You talk about the grievances of the big bad corporations....here's another clue...get rid of the dead weight and you wouldnt need to bargain for good increases and wages. Hold your OWN people accountable.

And please, don't tell me it happens all the time. Rarely if ever does a union fire one of its members....want to know why??? MONEY in the form of dues.
And even when a company gets enough on a union guy to bring it to a hearing...the term "fired" becomes nothing more then a short period of time off (which is still paid most of the time by little nuances like job insurance).

There were many in the RR union who used to get fired for extended time off!! Not that 25% of their schedule could be called in sick was enough!

So please...lets look at both sides...stop portraying corporations as bad. Without them, where would you buy your bread on your table every day? Where woud you buy the clothes on yor back? or next your gonna tell us your clothing all comes from union backed manufacturers?? get real mosty!

[mostpost]

Why he used the term "thugs"...I cant speak for ralph. What I can do is tell you I would of used the SAME term. And since you like spin, you should appreciate this one....

Then you won't mind me talking about management thugs. There are at least as many examples of violence against workers as by workers. Read your labor history. There are numerous incidents where Pinkerton officers, hired by companies, fired into unarmed crowds of workers.
The use of a term like "thugs" is not only inaccurate, it distracts from the discussion.
Whats the matter with employees talking to management and finding out why they arent making a certain salary?
In a discussion between an employer and an individual employee the employee has little or no power. Regardless of the merits of his case, the employer can say "I'm not giving you a raise". The employee then has two bad options; continue working at an unfair salary or quit. Presently, quitting is not really an option since there are no jobs available. From the employers viewpoint, he has plenty of options to replace the employee.
With a union the employees have power to negotiate as equals with the employer. A single employee can't say, "I'm not going to quit, but I'm not going to work until I am fairly paid. I group of workers can.
Whats the matter with employees taking and using some initiative to stand out and make their value more to the company and therefor EARNING an increase?
For one thing, most jobs are not set up in a way that it is easy for an individual to increase is value to a company. A person on an assembly line is at the mercy of the line. The truth is workers do not get the increases they earn. I mentioned in another thread that for most of the twentieth century up to 1980, wages increased in lockstep to increases in productivity. After 1980, productivity continued to increase at about the same rate while wages stagnated.
As for a right to organize....sure they have the right. But you are so one "eyed" (meaning you look at things from one side), that you don't see the disadvantage organizing puts an employer at. I thought you said you wanted FAIR? Or is it that you only want fair when it applies to YOUR perspective?
Both sides want the advantage. That's human nature. Both sides will portray the situation as it best suits them. That is where negotiation between two sides of equal strength comes in. The employer has the power to withhold the job. Employees need jobs. The employee has the power, if he's part of a union, too withhold his labor. Negotiation means an employer has to prove he is unable to provide the salary and benefits a worker desires. He can't say he is unable to provide $1000 in raises each month, when he is putting $5000 or more in the bank each month. Much of that $5000 came to him because of his employees. Of course you don't see that.
Organizing forces in most cases an employer who wants to stay in business to negotiate whether or not its deserved. If they do not cave into union demands, their business goes down the tubes. No employer wants to have their employees walk off the job. And thats NOT to say that ALL employees are deserving.

Quite honestly, in those instances I am sure the employer would gladly let some of the non productive employees go. But thwey run the risk of losing the good as well when organzing happens. There is nothing fair about organizing from the company point of view.

Sure the employees love it...because the slackers (and you and I both know that EVERY union has them) benefit from the hard workers as well.
Slackers are not exclusive to unions. There are plenty of non union slackers as well. I'd say the proportion is just about even.
You talk about the grievances of the big bad corporations....here's another clue...get rid of the dead weight and you wouldnt need to bargain for good increases and wages. Hold your OWN people accountable.
I can cite you a number of employees at the Post Office where I worked who were let go because of unsatisfactory performance. Thanks to the union they were given the opportunity to improve their performance, but, when they couldn't they were fired. Permanently!

And please, don't tell me it happens all the time. Rarely if ever does a union fire one of its members....want to know why??? MONEY in the form of dues.
And even when a company gets enough on a union guy to bring it to a hearing...the term "fired" becomes nothing more then a short period of time off (which is still paid most of the time by little nuances like job insurance).
How can the union fire one of its members? We don't work for the union. The union works for us.
There were many in the RR union who used to get fired for extended time off!! Not that 25% of their schedule could be called in sick was enough!

So please...lets look at both sides...stop portraying corporations as bad. Without them, where would you buy your bread on your table every day? Where woud you buy the clothes on yor back? or next your gonna tell us your clothing all comes from union backed manufacturers?? get real mosty!
You say look at both sides, yet you don't look at my side. You see the world as benevolent employers bestowing gifts on employees. You never see the contributions the employees make. You refuse to acknowledge the employees stake in determining what the reward for those contributions should be. It is not the place of the employer to unilaterally decide that.

[boxcar]

Oh Hell, I meant intelligent majority. Of which I am apparently not a member. :blush: :blush:

Finally, you have something right. You want to become a "member"? Beg, borrow or steal some intelligence then apply for whatever floats your boat -- majority or minority.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

You say look at both sides, yet you don't look at my side. You see the world as benevolent employers bestowing gifts on employees. You never see the contributions the employees make. You refuse to acknowledge the employees stake in determining what the reward for those contributions should be. It is not the place of the employer to unilaterally decide that.

You say, "should be"? The free market decides what it "should be". And that's how it should be.

And as far as employees' contributions, that's dictated by the level of their work-related resources, i.e. skills. (Read: What they actually bring to the business' table.) A sandwich maker isn't nearly as skilled as a tool and die maker. Nor as skilled as a fireman, or policeman, nurse, accountant, bookkeeper, paramedic or a whole slew of other occupations. His skill level is probably around the same level as a cashier at a supermarket -- maybe. So, what's his starting wage worth per hour -- $7., $9., $12., $15., $23., $42.50? What?

Boxcar

[GaryG]

Isn't mosty the one who makes proclamations about what a particular job is worth? I believe he has also complained that some people were grossly overpaid based on his standards of worth. I would throw them all out and hire new employees who actually want to work and need a job. Plenty of those around these days and I'll bet they can make sandwiches too.

[bigmack]

They're nice enough to roll out 8" sandwiches for a $1 today and hard workin' customers have to deal with these flunkies.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/9_16_10_12_38_56.png

[ArlJim78]

In the end its the employers desicion alone. an employer says I need this work done, and I would like to pay you X dollars per hour. Employee says I will do the work for X+5 dollars per hour, he's entitled to convey what he feels he's worth, however the decision is still up to the employer. Unions want to say we will do this work but with this many people and you will pay us this amount of money. it doesn't work.

Businesses need to be flexible, they must change with the times, adapt, in order to survive. Unions don't want to change except when it come to their salary and benefits.

[Tom]

People are entitled to think they are worth whatever they want.
The only thing that matters is what the guy signing the checks thinks they are worth. Fact of life - deal with it by making yourself more valuable, not just saying it.

[newtothegame]

Mosty....you really have no idea...
You say I dont see things from your side....B.S....I lived on your side for a few years. I been there, done that!
And let me tell you about MY experience. Now I know that all UNIONS are a bit different but I think this instance probably relates well.

You talk about "history"....Well, I dont think you can find a more corrupt, terrible company when you look at HISTORY then the Union Pacific RR. That's the company I worked for, under union "representation" if you wish to call it that.

First day out of class, we were FORCED to sign a union card. By forced, I mean that NO ONE CAN WORK FOR UP without being in a union. The trade in the RR we worked for determined which union you joined. Example...the car dept har a union, the conductors had a union, and the engineer's had another. Myself, I was a conductor.

Each department had a union rep which basically handled all of our grievances if there were any.

First day on job.....I am working with an "old head"....(guy who's been around a while). We get our assignments from the tower in the form of a list. The list is nothing more then a list of all the rail cars in bound or outbound that either need to be seperated or put together on inbound and outbound trains. this is a "yard" job. Meaning that we stayed in the yard. There were "road" jobs which delivered products to plants or moved full trains from one location to another.

So, I go out to the yard with my old head and we have a job "meeting". this is where we discuss the moves to be made with our engineer so he is aware of the moves to be made during our shift.

We go get an engine from the "round house" (place where engines are normally stored when not in use). The round house from the tower is about a city block in distance. We wait FORTY FIVE minutes for a van to bring us. As that's too far to walk in the unions eyes. So there is 45 minutes ON THE CLOCK wasted. Our job briefing or meeting took about 20-30 minutes. So we have in essence killed over an hour before we have moved ONE SINGLE CAR.

We get our engine and pull down into a track, couple up to a set of cars we are to switch. Upon coupling, the "old head" says its time for a break. Another 30 minutes for water etc etc.

Long story short, we did an ACTUAL 3 hours worth of work yet were paid for 8. This was not just this one job...it was EVERY JOB out there. This went on for a year! After a year, I got my time in where I could be foreman on jobs. Me and another guy from my class wound up being paired up (due to seniority alot). I was foreman and he was "field" (guy who worked down in yard switching and throwing switches so cars would go to right tracks as I released them from engine.

Well, as I got to foreman, I told my field guy "hey, since we only have a short list of work (tower knew not to give long list of work to old heads as it wouldnt get done), lets get it done and see if they will let us go home early".
Low and behold, we get it done in no time flat (like three hours) and management comes out there, see our work and lets us go home for the day. Guess what? Our contract says that we get paid a minimum of 8 hours NO MATTER WHAT for showing up to work. WOW, what a deal! I can work three hours and get paid for 8 is my thought! And, be home with my family!

Next morning, union rep meets me and Jim in the tower...and says " you guys are working way too fast"!!! Huh?? I thought the idea was to get the job done?? His response.." You two are the reasons they cut jobs around here".

Well, at this point, I am a foreman and I run my job the way I see fit. Now I can sit out here and waste time all day and get paid 8 hours or, I can get the job done in half that time and still get my 8 hours and be at home...which do you think I chose??

Not too mention, now management is tossing us a few "bones" (extra work when we ask for over time). Managment would even call us on the radio and have us go "sit" in another yard out of sight so we could make over time at times.

There were times though when we were asked to get things done and there were times when we took a larger workload then other jobs when asked by management to do so.

Bottom line is management was the ones who took care of us. They knew we would get their work done when they needed it rain or shine. But, and you know where I am going with this mosty...we were now at odds with the other union members who saw us as "company" guys. And it would cost me...later.

About three years into this job, I was a foreman on a switching job and called another job on the opposite end of the yard to watch me shove a train into a track. This would save me from getting a van, and wasting time, to go to the other end of the yard. Needless to say, the other job had our union rep on it. I didnt think anything of it...and as he said he was "watching" I began to shove our train into an empty track so it could be prepped to leave town.

We wound up shoving out the other end of the track and into the side of an inbound train causing a nice derailment. Deisel fuel spill, EPA brought in, OSHA brought in...fines levied by EPA for spill containment...
Not a pretty site. Someone's head had to roll....wanna guess who?

Management had no choice but to charge MY crew with a level 5 (highest offense) you can get for the derailment. So, now a hearing is set where my union rep (the guy supposed to represent me) is set to argue on my behalf.
Do you think he argued?? You guessed it...I was hung out to dry. He even BLAMED me during the hearing based on a rule that "I was responsible for my own job" no matter who else was asked to "watch a shove" (which was HIM)!

Company had no choice but to find me guilty and fire me....I got 6 months off without pay. Needless to say, that was last day working there.

I could tell you many many stories like the one above. But, I will just say this...the UNION IS THUGS. Either you co-operate with them or you get black balled and eventually it will cost you.

I harbor no ill feeling towards the company as they had no choice. EPA, OSHA, FINES, ...hell I knew someone was going to get into trouble lol. And I blame myself for not recognizing the situation.

Anyways...I have rambled enough...but don't tell me I dont see YOUR side. been there done that!!

So when the postman or lady...park around the corner and take a nap, I gladly drive by and BLOW MY HORN AS LONG AS I CAN.

Or when they STEAL coupons from flyers that are intended to go to "resident", I make sure to call and report it to the company sending the "flyers".

Or when I go into the office to get stamps, I try to ALWAYS PAY IN COIN.

Just my way of letting unions know we love ya :lol:

[mostpost]

Interesting stories. My Uncle worked as a switchman for the Burlington all his life. He used to bring home magazines that people left on the seats when they detrained. I suppose you think he should have turned them in to the company. :rolleyes:
Nobody forced you to sign a union card, you can always get a different job. Just like you told me nobody forces anyone to work for a certain wage, they can always get a different job.
As to the guaranteed eight hour day, the post office also guarantees eight hours for any full time employee. Part time flexibles are guaranteed two hours if they are called in. But, you have to stay there to be paid. Either stay, or go home and use your annual leave.
The reason the post office guarantees an eight hour day is because under normal circumstances that is how long it takes to case and carry a route.
Determining that is not guesswork. There is an involved process used. Each route is evaluated based on the abilities of the carrier and the average volume of mail. But volumes vary from day to day and why would a person take a job if he were to be sent home any time there was a low volume of mail.
I know nothing about working on a railroad, so I have a few questions. The list of moves to be made for the day, was that compiled by the union or by management. If by management, then why blame the union for your short day? Was safety the reason you had to wait for a van to take you to the job?
I did not understand the story of when you derailed a train. You said you called a job at the other end to watch you shove a train. You must be a really strong guy if you can shove a train. I don't think I am going to disagree with you anymore.
Were you saying the guy (Union rep) at the other end said he would take care of the train at the other end and didn't, thereby causing or contributing to the derailment? If so, what a jerk. :mad:
Did it occur to you that the postman sleeping in his truck might be on lunch or on a break? That could happen at varying times depending on mail volume. Most carriers have a favorite spot to take breaks and they could arrive at that spot at different times. Why a favorite spot? So that idiots don't come by blowing their horns. :lol: :lol:
Here's a story about my early days at the post office. I was carrying mail at the time. In those days, you would prepare your mail and then be taken out to your route. You would have the mail for your first relay (section) only. The rest of your mail would remain in the office and be taken to relay boxes on your route by truck. The driver had relays for several routes which he had to deliver.
This particular day I finished delivering my first relay of several blocks and arrived at the first relay box. I opened it. It was empty. Obviously the driver had not arrived yet. No choice but to wait. No cell phones in those days. I sat down in the relay box, leaned my head against the side and closed my eyes. My relays arrived about 15 minutes later, I went on my way and thought nothing more about it.
A week later the local weekly paper came out and there I was, on the front page, eyes closed, mouth open, leaning against the side of an open relay box. I never saw the photographer. My eyes were closed :blush: Postmaster was not happy. :mad: :mad: :mad:
I was in that situation, not because I was goofing off, but because I was working hard. You see, the driver was not late with my relay, in fact she was several minutes early. I had delivered that first relay in much less than the alloted time. As my reward, I got my picture in the paper and gave folks like you a chance to talk about lazy postal employees.
Taking coupons is a fireable offense. Something I never did, but we do have what we call UBBM undeliverable bulk business mail. This is mail which can not be delivered either because there is no such address or the person has moved, or various other reasons. This mail is not forwardable and the sender does not want it back. It is thrown in the garbage. Occasionally one of us would "rescue" one of those coupons for a McDonalds or Wendy's. Technically a violation, but to my mind not a big deal.

[A. Pineda]

Mostpost, the only reason I lurk around this sub-forum is to read your intelligent posts and see how you stand your ground in spite of all the name-calling when others can't develop a legitimate response.

Today I have to join with the anti-union posters, in spite of the fact that I was a Teamster shop steward for many years. I saw all of the ugly sides of unions, including when mafia captain Anthony "Tony Pro" Provenzano was made VP of a New Jersey local. You may recall that he was one of the main suspects in Hoffa's disappearance.

Union "thugs" murdered a newspaper worker during a strike in LA and beat a friend of mine with baseball bats (I only suffered some broken glass in my hair from an "errant" bottle). When my boss built a new plant the union said that he had to hire a forklift driver. Well, we didn't have or even need that piece of equipment, and there certainly wasn't any room to operate one inside the plant. In order to avoid a shutdown, a "forklift driver" was hired.

In 1975 a shop steward at Budweiser befriended me and offered to take me downtown to register. I worked nights, while also maintaining my 12 hour day job. That didn't last long, but the work attitudes I witnessed were eye-opening. Everything was done as slowly as possible, with the goal being to force the employer to add more workers and thereby fatten the union treasury. I worked on commission most of my life, where accomplishing more meant a bigger paycheck, and this behavior is contrary to the union mindset.

Other than in regard to safety regs which protect the public and employees, an employer does not need anyone telling him how to run his business, especially corrupt individuals or corrupt unions. When I started my small business I gave frequent bonuses to my guys to show them that I appreciated their efforts, and that was a win-win for me.

[gl45]

Yo Mosty,
Harley in York, PA almost closed. From almost 3,000 union workers they are down to 800, and some are temps . Any business that loses 91% of its sales is a sinking ship. Things will only get worse until unskilled labor such as Harley union employees realize that they need to take cuts to be productive.

From 1996...

Caterpillar Inc. said yesterday that it would close its Precision Barstock Products unit in York, Pa., because the plant was not competitive. Caterpillar said it would begin closing the plant in the next few weeks and would complete the shutdown in two or three years. All of the 1,100 employees will be affected. Caterpillar, based in Peoria, Ill., said it recorded a reserve in 1991 for the cost of the closing, so the shutdown would not have a significant impact on its current results. The company said it had made contract offers to the United Automobile Workers that would have allowed the plant to stay open. Union members at the plant ended a 17-month strike in December, returning to work despite rejecting the company's proposal for a six-year contract.
I have a friend that did work at Caterpillar, one day he told me that the Union wanted include in the new contract a clause that Caterpillar had to pay a percentage of any veterinarian bill for the union members pooches. Way to go unions.

Sounds familiar. Unions sucks

[newtothegame]

Interesting stories. My Uncle worked as a switchman for the Burlington all his life. He used to bring home magazines that people left on the seats when they detrained. I suppose you think he should have turned them in to the company. :rolleyes:

Interesting stories. My Uncle worked as a switchman for the Burlington all his life. He used to bring home magazines that people left on the seats when they detrained. I suppose you think he should have turned them in to the company. :rolleyes:
Difference is those people DECIDED to leave their magazines for others to enjoy...
Nobody forced you to sign a union card, you can always get a different job. Just like you told me nobody forces anyone to work for a certain wage, they can always get a different job.
Your right....thats one of the reasons I decided to leave....Why pay a union for representation, when I felt that I wasnt getting that!

The list of moves to be made for the day, was that compiled by the union or by management. If by management, then why blame the union for your short day? Was safety the reason you had to wait for a van to take you to the job?
The moves were decided by the company. A relatively simple process actually. Manifest were created for inbound trains. As the trains arrived in the yard, each car has a destination track for its future delivery. Thats how the "list" are created.
I never blamed union or company for short day. Not sure where you got that, Hell I loved the opportunity to get my work done and go home. And because of the union contract with U.P, we were still paid for a minimum of 8 hours. Who wouldnt love that??? But union members apparently didnt like my and my field guy leaving early cause thats where we were labeled as "company men".
The vans (according to the union) were provided so switchmen didnt have to walk distances. There were distances that were just too far to walk and those, I understood. But, as with most things I encountered, the UNION took that too extremes and used it to their advantage even for very short distances such as the one I described.

I did not understand the story of when you derailed a train. You said you called a job at the other end to watch you shove a train. You must be a really strong guy if you can shove a train. I don't think I am going to disagree with you anymore.
Were you saying the guy (Union rep) at the other end said he would take care of the train at the other end and didn't, thereby causing or contributing to the derailment? If so, what a jerk.
"Shoving a train" merely means pushing a train with the assist of the engines of course in a reverse movement. More or less, backing up into a track. Or, pushing one into a track.
The union rep on the other end was supposed to "protect" my shove (pushing a train into a track. His job (as he agreed to) was to WATCH the rear of my train so it didnt exit the opposite end of the track and run into another track or train. All of the tracks in a yard basically funnel into one main track. It's called a bowl more or less. So I am am shoving a train from one side of the yard to the other (through a track), its merely watching the other end for me.
He said " he was watching the WRONG track. This was all discussed before the job as to what track he was to watch. Thats the job briefing part. I believe he knew the rules (of me being responsible for my own job even with his assist). So, when we shoved our train out the other end, hit an incoming train, well he had no responsibility for it.
:mad:

[bigmack]

Mostpost, the only reason I lurk around this sub-forum is to read your intelligent posts
Where might we find these posts that you speak of?

[A. Pineda]

Where might we find these posts that you speak of?

The search function is your friend. ;)

[eastie]

"United we bargain, divided we beg ! " Teamster Pride

[Tom]

There is a big difference between bargaining to better yourself and out right thuggery and violating other people's right.

But then you didn't know that, did you?

[eastie]

example please

[Tom]

This thread.

[newtothegame]

"United we bargain, divided we beg ! " Teamster Pride

And in some cases " United you stand....in the unemplyment line" While your union leaders rob the coffers, and its members...!!

[mostpost]

Difference is those people DECIDED to leave their magazines for others to enjoy...
You don't know how true that statement is. I learned what a "nekkid" woman looks like from some of those magazines. Oh, he hid them, but a fourteen year old boy has a way of finding such things. :lol: :lol:

[mostpost]

Where might we find these posts that you speak of?
Click on mostpost then click on all posts by mostpost. ;) ;) ;)

[mostpost]

This thread.
I find one example of thuggery in this thread. The newspaper worker who was killed during a strike That certainly qualifies as thuggery. But to be union thuggery it would have to be shown that the union officially called for the murder. Because a single union goof acts irrationally is not sufficient reason to condemn the entire group, anymore than you should be arrested if one of your neighbors is found to be a peeping Tom. (Oh, sorry, bad example)
And what kind of thuggery is it when the company police or strike breakers attack striking workers. I can find hundreds of examples of that happening.
JustRalph's original post is not thuggery. Jimmy Johns workers set up a peaceful picket line which the other unions honored.
DelayJF claimed the union in Long Beach refused to compromise and caused layoffs, but the story he linked to said negotiations were still going on and reductions would occur through attrition not layoffs.
gl45 talked about the closing of a caterpillar plant in 1996, supposedly because the plant was not competitive, but he also said the company took a reserve in 1991 so they would not lose money on the closing. So they were planning to close the plant for five years. To be more competitive? More likely to increase profits for the owners.
It had nothing to do with thuggery. The union ended its seventeen month strike, went back to work without a contract and Caterpillar closed the plant anyway.
Newt's railroad stories were examples of featherbedding, not thuggery. Lookup thuggery in your Marian Websters or your Funky Wallnails.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... Because a single union goof acts irrationally is not sufficient reason to condemn the entire group...

Still, Rev'rand Jess and the NAACP would appreciate it if the unions would all just take most of their press time and...

[ElKabong]

example please

Thanks Pinata, I appreciate the easy target

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/SEIU-adopts-protest-by-intimidation-95270714.html

SEIU adopts protest-by-intimidation


But since when did it become okay for a mob of protesters to storm the yard and front porch of somebody's home? Baer's frightened 14-year-old son had to barricade himself in the bathroom. That's not exercising your right to assemble peaceably. It's intimidation, pure and simple.
SNIP

[Tom]

Originally Posted by mostpost
... Because a single union goof acts irrationally is not sufficient reason to condemn the entire group...


Isn't that the standard YOU go by?
Health Insurance companies, all banks, all businesses, all rich people?
Gee, I could have sworn that is exactly what you lefties do.

[ElKabong]

I find one example of thuggery in this thread. .

your entire thought process is Google-driven. Google and search for examples....you'll find decades worth of examples.