Secretariat's Belmont

[tzipi]

I know he ran faster each step of the way in the Derby but what were his clips in the Belmont?

[46zilzal]

I know he ran faster each step of the way in the Derby but what were his clips in the Belmont?
Fairly uniform but fast
quarter-mile fractions of 23 3/5, 46 1/5, and 1:09 4/5 1:34 1/5 1:59 then 2:24

[cj]

23 3/5, 22 3/5, 23 3/5, 24 2/5, 24 4/5, 25

[tzipi]

Fairly uniform but fast
quarter-mile fractions of 23 3/5, 46 1/5, and 1:09 4/5 1:34 1/5 1:59 then 2:2424

Thanks Zil and CJ :ThmbUp:

[46zilzal]

many a sprinter doesn't finish in 25 and he did it after all that distance

[PhantomOnTour]

The splits are amazing...yes, he was slowing down. But he was slowing down much slower than others slow down, esp after those early 1/4s. :)

[Pine Tree Lane]

Galloping out he broke Man O' War's record for 1 5/8. Also, no eighth was slower than 12 4/5.

[46zilzal]

Galloping out he broke Man O' War's record for 1 5/8. Also, no eighth was slower than 12 4/5.
Nope that was Swap's record

[Pine Tree Lane]

Corrected. Thank you.

[46zilzal]

Corrected. Thank you.
For many years Belmont never ran 1 5/8ths so that the TRACK RECORD THERE, not world's record, would retain the immortal's name in the program and since that (Secretariat's Belmont) was a gallop out it did not count anyway

[Marshall Bennett]

I remember when 1:09 was called out for the 3/4 that we were in for something special . That's the first I've heard about the record breaking gallopout . Amazing !!

[DeanT]

I remember when 1:09 was called out for the 3/4 that we were in for something special . That's the first I've heard about the record breaking gallopout . Amazing !!

Big Red's ten furlong time of 159 flat in the Belmont broke the track record at Belmont as well. It never went down in the history books of course but it is startling. In 1987 or 1988 Alysheba set the track record at 159.2 in the all out battle with Forty Niner in the Woodward. Secretariat, if he was watching the race in his stall over some mash, must have said "boy you guys look tired. I went faster than that 15 years ago without breaking a sweat and I still had another quarter mile to run!"

Amazing animal.

[Irish Boy]

25 in the final quarter. Pathetic. Secretariat just wasn't a 12 furlong horse.

[Alacrity]

You guys think he was on the PED's

[46zilzal]

You guys think he was on the PED's
what is a ped?

[joanied]

25 in the final quarter. Pathetic. Secretariat just wasn't a 12 furlong horse.

Of course you are not serious :faint:

[eastie]

what is a ped?


it's what people wear now instead of white socks. They;ve always been popular with golfers.

[tzipi]

what is a ped?

Performance enhancing drugs. Steroids.

I don't think so Alacrity. If he didn't have the hugest heart they've ever seens, then maybe. But I think we can attribute his big runs and times to that huge motor he had.

[bane]

It took a while to get that horse to finally pregnate a mare. There is a bit of talk that he was on the drugs a little.

[46zilzal]

It took a while to get that horse to finally pregnate a mare. There is a bit of talk that he was on the drugs a little.
an appy at Claiborne

Crap there is NO evidence whatsoever That kind of talent does not come from a vial

[joanied]

an appy at Claiborne

Crap there is NO evidence whatsoever That kind of talent does not come from a vial

Are we now going to start doubting Secretariat :bang: You must know that not all breeding problems in stallions have to be because of drugs... his heart was more than twice the size of normal, and his lung capacity was also huge...along with the incredible dynamics of his effortless, huge stride...do we really need to even hint that he was a horse on drugs:ThmbDown:
I was in Lucien's barn all the time...never any evidence of 'foul play' there.

[bane]

HAHA Everybody relax I was just throwing that out there, I honestly think he wasn't on anything. I don't think Dr. Harthill was around that much. lol

[Irish Boy]

Of course you are not serious :faint:
Sarcasm

[joanied]

Sarcasm

OK....shoulda used the emoticon:) :) :)

[joanied]

HAHA Everybody relax I was just throwing that out there, I honestly think he wasn't on anything. I don't think Dr. Harthill was around that much. lol

That's good :) bane...he wasn't on anything... Harthill was around...but not the Claiborne barn!!

[PaceAdvantage]

In 1967, the International Olympic Council banned the use of anabolic steroids.

So please don't think that by 1973, steroids weren't being used in race horses.

Not saying they were used in Secretariat's case, just pointing out that the odds are more than likely that their use in racing was WIDESPREAD by the time Secretariat was winning the Triple Crown.

[CryingForTheHorses]

25 in the final quarter. Pathetic. Secretariat just wasn't a 12 furlong horse.


Bet he wouldnt be too pathetic if he was yours!!....What a thing to say...

[Trotman]

I remember Big Red's final race at wet and soggy Woodbine on the turf. Here was Kennedy Road leading the field into the far turn actually with some distance between himself and the field when Eddie Maple decided time to go and in the blink of an eye the Big Boy started to makes his move to the front for good. "It's All Secretariat" was how Darryl Wells came over the PA system

[Irish Boy]

Bet he wouldnt be too pathetic if he was yours!!....What a thing to say...
http://www.danwallacemusic.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/sarcasm-detector-thumb.jpg

[CryingForTheHorses]

I remember Big Red's final race at wet and soggy Woodbine on the turf. Here was Kennedy Road leading the field into the far turn actually with some distance between himself and the field when Eddie Maple decided time to go and in the blink of an eye the Big Boy started to makes his move to the front for good. "It's All Secretariat" was how Darryl Wells came over the PA system

Geeze,I was standing on the bleacher that they had on the backsid on the turf course,I remember Kennedy Road very well Im sure you also know Briartic,Cool Moon,How bout Old Stoneface?.The bleacher was crowded.Cold and raining that day.As a kid watching him go by me,I didnt how imortal he would become.

[Marshall Bennett]

Kent D. could have taken a page out of Turcotte's book with Big Brown and just let him run instead of choking him and taking him out of his element. I still say to this day that's the worse ride I've ever seen in a major stakes race.

[Trotman]

Geeze,I was standing on the bleacher that they had on the backsid on the turf course,I remember Kennedy Road very well Im sure you also know Briartic,Cool Moon,How bout Old Stoneface?.The bleacher was crowded.Cold and raining that day.As a kid watching him go by me,I didnt how imortal he would become.
Tom what a memory wasn't it. All week the whole city wanted to get up close to him, touch him, get a piece of his tail, by 11:00 the parking lot was full even the empty fields around Woodbine mud or no mud we're full everywhere you looked was full. I was on that same bleacher but had to go over to the other side I still have a 50 win ticket which I had framed, remember every ticket that day any denomination had BIG RED on it

[46zilzal]

Kent D. could have taken a page out of Turcotte's book with Big Brown and just let him run instead of choking him and taking him out of his element. I still say to this day that's the worse ride I've ever seen in a major stakes race.
THAT colt demonstrated repeatedly that he could not run INSIDE of others. Watch the Preakness and he tried to get out the far side of the clubhouse turn and why do you think the trainer picked post 20 in the Derby?

[bigmack]

We obviously know that Secretariat possessed the large heart gene. His heart was larger than any other TB on record. And we know that he got his large heart from Princequillo. A horse's heart is measured by a electrocardiogram and given a "heart score". That phrase was coined only 40 years ago by an Australian researcher named Dr. James Steel. In his research Dr.Steel ranks heart scores according to size. A score of 103 is considered small. A medium size heart is scored from 104-116. 117-120 and above is considered large. The Largest heart in his study was from the Thoroughbred Champion Key to the Mint. He carried the Princequello heart, and rated a heart score of 157-160. Most of Princequello's hearts were between 147 and 160. The three other "superhearts" were from War Admiral, Blue Larkspur, and Mahmoud. They had a heart score of 140-150. A heart score of 140 and above is considered very large and generally found in very successful racehorses.

Marianna Haun says in her book "The X Factor" that even though there is no heart score on Secretariat, based on the weight of his heart at autopsy his estimated heart score would have been 180. There has not been any heart score even near that size. She also states that if Secretariat's heart hadnt been so far out of the norm, they might not have ever discovered what they have about the genetic mutation that produces a high performance heart.
http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/nutbush/

Today, the normal weight of a horse’s heart is 8.5 pounds. Even though Secretariat’s heart was not weighed at autopsy, Dr. Thomas Swerczek, head pathologist at the University of Kentucky, estimated it at 22 pounds after finding the second-largest heart in Sham (Secretariat’s Triple Crown rival) and weighing it at 18 pounds.

"I have done thousands of autopsies, and I had noticed differences in heart size in horses before we did Secretariat," Swerczek said. "I had picked up the difference in the male and female hearts and noticed that some were bigger than others.

"But I didn’t pay much attention until Secretariat came along. He was completely out of everybody else’s league. Looking back at what he had done, it was easy to put a connection to it. The heart was what made him able to do what he did. It explained how he was able to do what he did in the Belmont Stakes – a mile and a half race (Secretariat won by 31 lengths in track-record time). You would have to have a large heart to do what he did. It would be impossible for a horse with a small heart to do that."
http://horsesonly.com/crossroads/xfactor/heart-1.htm

[ronsmac]

I'd have to say Jerry Bailey's ride aboard Skip Away in the Breeders cup was worse. After Bailey said in an interview after winning the Juvenile, that the outside is much better than the inside, he managed to get Skip Away bogged down on the rail from an outer post. Then used the excuse after the race that he just doesn't like Churchill Downs.

[Skanoochies]

Wasn`t Secretariats Belmont not only a track record but a world record for 1 1/2 at the time? Seems to me I saw that on the net somewhere :confused:

[Cratos]

Kent D. could have taken a page out of Turcotte's book with Big Brown and just let him run instead of choking him and taking him out of his element. I still say to this day that's the worse ride I've ever seen in a major stakes race.

Give me a break! Don’t take this as an affront to your post because I believe that you believe what you wrote and I believe what I am writing in response to your post which is Kent Desormeaux could’ve let Big Brown run until H__L freezed over and Big Brown’s effort wouldn’t have dented the shadow of Secretariat’s 1973 Belmont performance.

Matter fact I don’t believe that Big Brown at his very best could come close to Secretariat’s son, Risen Star or Easy Goer’s Belmont performances.

There are very few things that I have ever wished for, but Secretariat running as a 4yo was one of them in 1974. Having seen greats like Buckpasser, Dr. Fager, and Damascus run; my eagerness to see Big Red run toting x-amount of weight over a distance of ground was overwhelming and to later see Forego it was then and still now is a wonderment to me what a great racing rivalry that might had been under handicap conditions.

[PaceAdvantage]

Let's remember the title of this thread and keep any further postings restricted to that...don't need to bring up Big Brown or Kent D.'s ride or Skip Away and Jerry Bailey...let's try and keep things on track for a change (yup, a pun).

[Reezy]

No doubt that big reds belmont and derby were awesome.. But I love his preaknes last to first on the first turn and never looked back

[Trotman]

Cratos I'm with you on this one, would have loved to see Secretariat run in the Handicaps. Every year that goes by there's less and less handicaps and if a track cards one it's on a weekend, hell I remember you could have one or two Handicap races carded mid week.

[Cardus]

I am no loner amazed about what is routinely missed -- even in Internet Land, which is focused on race announcers, to a ridiculous degree -- about Chic Anderson's call of the race.

Just after Anderson calls Secretariat being in front of horses by almost a 1/16th of a mile, he momentarily -- and it is almost imperceptibly brief -- doesn't know what to say.

"Secretariat... he's in a position that he is impossible to catch.."

There is a stutter between "Secretariat" and "he's", and it is not because he is inept. No one had ever seen this before in the Belmont Stakes, so what could Anderson say?

[Grits]

This is the photograph I was looking for a day ago when I was speaking of Secretariat's stride. Its the photograph that shows more power in any racehorse than I've ever seen. It is simply breaktaking to see this animal's build.

Scroll down a bit to view. Maybe someone can embed it. The photo may have been taken by Raymond G Woolfe, the author of Secretariat, which I have here in the bookcase.

http://www.circledhorses.com/The%20X-Factor.htm

[Nets]

This is the photograph I was looking for a day ago when I was speaking of Secretariat's stride. Its the photograph that shows more power in any racehorse than I've ever seen. It is simply breaktaking to see this animal's build.

Scroll down a bit to view. Maybe someone can embed it. The photo may have been taken by Raymond G Woolfe, the author of Secretariat, which I have here in the bookcase.

http://www.circledhorses.com/The%20X-Factor.htm

Thanks Grits. Gonna make that my desktop background.

[sonnyp]

i watched the 1972 hopeful stakes standing on the grandstand steps at the top of the stretch.

i had been feeling cheated that a beautiful colt named riva ridge had failed to win the triple crown by losing the preakness. i thought his jock had spent way too much time paying attention to key to the mint laying back in 4th and 5th, while allowing be be be to steal it on the front end.

here was another colt, this secretariat, carrying the same silks as riva ridge. tough act to follow.

watch him, #7 break absolutely last, and keep watching this green 2 yo and see what he does to this bunch of good colts.

riva who ???



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8LBWOlzi6w

sorry there's no sound

[OntheRail]

Here you go... What a Horse. :faint:

http://www.circledhorses.com/Secretariat_Preakness.jpg

[Grits]

Thanks bunches, OTR, you're a gem!!!!

[PaceAdvantage]

Here you go... What a Horse. :faint:

http://www.circledhorses.com/Secretariat_Preakness.jpgAnd some people want to compare this amazing specimen...this freak of nature...this God's gift of SPEED and STAMINA...they want to compare other horses to him?

There is no comparison. There are no other "FREIGHT TRAINS" of horse racing like this one...not today anyway...nothing even comes close.

I can still see him charging around that turn at Woodbine, the vapor trail of his methodical breathing chugging out of his nostrils like a steam engine...would have loved to have seen that in person...

[PhantomOnTour]

How many hands was he? Was he a really big and bulky muscular athletic type? I've only seen him on those old films and really can't tell how large he was, but I imagine he was a pretty imposing specimen to see....17 hands???

[DeanT]

Galloping out he broke Man O' War's record for 1 5/8. Also, no eighth was slower than 12 4/5.

it just dawned on me..... (Im slow).... his 159 flat at 10f in the Belmont broke that track record, his mile and a half broke that track record, and his gallop out broke the 1 5/8's record. Three track records all in the same race.

[sonnyp]

How many hands was he? Was he a really big and bulky muscular athletic type? I've only seen him on those old films and really can't tell how large he was, but I imagine he was a pretty imposing specimen to see....17 hands???


he wasn't overly "tall" at the withers. i'm sure not 17 hands. he had a beautiful head and massive chest and shoulders. he was a heavy framed horse with a strong and well defined rear end.

put all of these attributes under that flaming red coat with that white blaze and white feet and he made quite a presence.

when he came on the track you knew he was in a class by himself.


quick story. because of the deal on breeding, "bull" hancock got the choice of one of two foals who were products of breeding to his bold ruler. the choice he had to make in one instance was between a classically colored filly(dark brown or bay, black maine, tail and legs) and a chestnut colt (chestnut, white blaze, white stockings).

he chose the filly, " the bride" never broke her maiden scoffing "at least i can breed her. what am i going to do with that chestnut with the white feet ?"

ah...... he was secretariat

[Grits]

Like we have a stickie folder for great race videos, it would be great to have the same for great racehorse photos--then again we made need some permission for reprinting, unless they're ones we've taken ourselves.

Either way, this is the one shot that should take the #1 spot.

He's the only measure of excellence. Like you just stated, PA,

God's gift of speed and stamina. There is no comparison.

[eastie]

look at the extension of his legs. it's almost impossible to extend that far. When I see that picture it makes me think of Go For Wand (RIP) who wanted it so bad and tried so hard that she extended too far. Secretariat had that great straight extension. moving like a tremendous machine was so Totally accurate. That Marlboro Cup win against Riva Ridge was awesome.

[46zilzal]

quick story. because of the deal on breeding, "bull" hancock got the choice of one of two foals who were products of breeding to his bold ruler. the choice he had to make in one instance was between a classically colored filly(dark brown or bay, black maine, tail and legs) and a chestnut colt (chestnut, white blaze, white stockings).

he chose the filly, " the bride" never broke her maiden scoffing "at least i can breed her. what am i going to do with that chestnut with the white feet ?"

ah...... he was secretariat

Nice story but wrong as it was a coin flip..In 1968, Chenery sent two mares named Hasty Matelda and Somethingroyal to Bold Ruler, and in 1969, a colt and filly were the result. In 1969, Hasty Matelda was replaced by Cicada, but she did not conceive. Only one foal resulted between Bold Ruler and Somethingroyal. As stated in the original agreement, the winner of the coin toss could pick the foal he wanted but could only take one, while the loser would get the other two. Both parties assumed Somethingroyal would deliver a healthy foal in the spring of 1970. The coin toss between Penny Chenery and Ogden Phipps was set for the fall of 1969 in the office of New York Racing Association Chairman Alfred Vanderbilt II, with Hancock as witness. As Vanderbilt flipped the coin, Phipps called "Tails!" The coin landed tails up. Phipps decided to take the weanling filly out of Somethingroyal, leaving Chenery with the colt out of Hasty Matelda and the unborn foal of Somethingroyal.

[sonnyp]

i don't know what it is with you, but the choice was between a filly who was named the bride and a colt who was named secretariat.

chennery ended up with secretariat as the "loser" in the deal.

forgive me, i hadn't heard about the coin flip but the POINT OF THE TALE is the irony of the process by which he ended up with meadow stables.

allow me to claim artistic license and note that i did state "a quick story" since i didn't know all the details nor did i care.

i now nominate you as official historian and resident expert and expect you to make sure each post has each piece of historical menutia absolutely accurate.

[Trotman]

PA I was there for Secretariats last race at Woodbine. I was huddled on the full bleachers on the backstretch prior to the race and decided that this was such a special moment decided to go over where the photographers were behind the hedge in front of the tote board along the turf course. The photographers started to swell during the post parade so I moved to the far right of the tote board so I could see the backstretch. Your description of the vapour trail and methodical breathing was so true but the unison of the hooves hitting the soggy turf and clearly seeing Eddie Maple speaking with Big Red through the stretch as if to say easy big fella with Big red snorting back at Maple is etched in my memory forever. Truly Secretariat was and always will be the finest horse I ever saw race. There are many others that were great but Secretariat will always be the bar they need to come up to.

[Marshall Bennett]

Give me a break! Don’t take this as an affront to your post because I believe that you believe what you wrote and I believe what I am writing in response to your post which is Kent Desormeaux could’ve let Big Brown run until H__L freezed over and Big Brown’s effort wouldn’t have dented the shadow of Secretariat’s 1973 Belmont performance.

Matter fact I don’t believe that Big Brown at his very best could come close to Secretariat’s son, Risen Star or Easy Goer’s Belmont performances.

There are very few things that I have ever wished for, but Secretariat running as a 4yo was one of them in 1974. Having seen greats like Buckpasser, Dr. Fager, and Damascus run; my eagerness to see Big Red run toting x-amount of weight over a distance of ground was overwhelming and to later see Forego it was then and still now is a wonderment to me what a great racing rivalry that might had been under handicap conditions.
Go back and read my post. I wasn't comparing the quality of the two colts, I'm not stupid. I was comparing the rides by the two jockeys. I still maintain that Kent's ride was a pathetic performance.
I understand quite fully that Big Brown was no Big Red.

[Pell Mell]

Go back and read my post. I wasn't comparing the quality of the two colts, I'm not stupid. I was comparing the rides by the two jockeys. I still maintain that Kent's ride was a pathetic performance.
I understand quite fully that Big Brown was no Big Red.

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:
Also, having had great success over the years in picking Derby winners by pedigree, I firmly believe that the next Triple Crown winner will be sired by Big Brown. ;)

[Pine Tree Lane]

Nice story but wrong as it was a coin flip..In 1968, Chenery sent two mares named Hasty Matelda and Somethingroyal to Bold Ruler, and in 1969, a colt and filly were the result. In 1969, Hasty Matelda was replaced by Cicada, but she did not conceive. Only one foal resulted between Bold Ruler and Somethingroyal. As stated in the original agreement, the winner of the coin toss could pick the foal he wanted but could only take one, while the loser would get the other two. Both parties assumed Somethingroyal would deliver a healthy foal in the spring of 1970. The coin toss between Penny Chenery and Ogden Phipps was set for the fall of 1969 in the office of New York Racing Association Chairman Alfred Vanderbilt II, with Hancock as witness. As Vanderbilt flipped the coin, Phipps called "Tails!" The coin landed tails up. Phipps decided to take the weanling filly out of Somethingroyal, leaving Chenery with the colt out of Hasty Matelda and the unborn foal of Somethingroyal.

It was a coin flip no one wanted to win. The Bride was the filly the Phipps got and Rising River was the colt, the second choice of the first pair that Meadow Stable received.

Then there was this chestnut colt out of Somethingroyal......

[SmartyLane]

And some people want to compare this amazing specimen...this freak of nature...this God's gift of SPEED and STAMINA...they want to compare other horses to him?

There is no comparison. There are no other "FREIGHT TRAINS" of horse racing like this one...not today anyway...nothing even comes close.

I can still see him charging around that turn at Woodbine, the vapor trail of his methodical breathing chugging out of his nostrils like a steam engine...would have loved to have seen that in person...

Pace I was about to comment on how much I enjoy watching this race online and seeing the steam blast out his nostrils with each breath. Awesome to watch!!

[Nikki1997]

And some people want to compare this amazing specimen...this freak of nature...this God's gift of SPEED and STAMINA...they want to compare other horses to him?

There is no comparison. There are no other "FREIGHT TRAINS" of horse racing like this one...not today anyway...nothing even comes close.

I can still see him charging around that turn at Woodbine, the vapor trail of his methodical breathing chugging out of his nostrils like a steam engine...would have loved to have seen that in person...

Agree 1000%. My favorite racehorse of all time.

[46zilzal]

After he died, I sent the photo that is my avatar to Mrs Tweedy and about a month later she sent HER favorite photo of him as a stallion along with a nice handwritten letter which is framed in the entry here.

Class act, top to bottom

[joanied]

This is the photograph I was looking for a day ago when I was speaking of Secretariat's stride. Its the photograph that shows more power in any racehorse than I've ever seen. It is simply breaktaking to see this animal's build.

Scroll down a bit to view. Maybe someone can embed it. The photo may have been taken by Raymond G Woolfe, the author of Secretariat, which I have here in the bookcase.

http://www.circledhorses.com/The%20X-Factor.htm

That photo and the black & white photo of Ron T working Big red are my two favorites...indeed...you can FEEL the power!1

And this is crazy...you use a link for the photo from a web site of someone I know...I bred my mares to thier QH stallion, Rare News...what a crazy coincidence!!

[joanied]

And some people want to compare this amazing specimen...this freak of nature...this God's gift of SPEED and STAMINA...they want to compare other horses to him?

There is no comparison. There are no other "FREIGHT TRAINS" of horse racing like this one...not today anyway...nothing even comes close.

I can still see him charging around that turn at Woodbine, the vapor trail of his methodical breathing chugging out of his nostrils like a steam engine...would have loved to have seen that in person...

Very :ThmbUp: well said, Pace...

in the thread about the Secretariat movie I mentioned the race at Woodbine, and that I thought the perfect ending to the movie would be that race...great music score, slow motion, audible sounds of hooves & breathing...and Secretariat racing out of the mist and into history!

[Cratos]

Go back and read my post. I wasn't comparing the quality of the two colts, I'm not stupid. I was comparing the rides by the two jockeys. I still maintain that Kent's ride was a pathetic performance.
I understand quite fully that Big Brown was no Big Red.

Then please state the relevance of using Turcotte's ride on Big Red? There were many good jockey rides before Secretariat’s 1973 Belmont victory and there has been many afterwards. Contextually I don’t get what you are saying.

[FenceBored]

Then please state the relevance of using Turcotte's ride on Big Red? There were many good jockey rides before Secretariat’s 1973 Belmont victory and there has been many afterwards. Contextually I don’t get what you are saying.


A thread on Secretariat's Belmont made him think about Turcotte's ride.
Turcotte's good ride in the Belmont sparked the memory of his bad impression of Kent D on Big Brown (also in the Belmont).
Typed wish that Kent D could have given a ride like Turcotte, i.e. not screwing with the horse and letting it run as it wanted.
Nowhere in there was anything about the relative abilities of the two horses, just the rides they got in different editions of the same stakes race.

What's not to understand?

[Saratoga_Mike]

A thread on Secretariat's Belmont made him think about Turcotte's ride.
Turcotte's good ride in the Belmont sparked the memory of his bad impression of Kent D on Big Brown (also in the Belmont).
Typed wish that Kent D could have given a ride like Turcotte, i.e. not screwing with the horse and letting it run as it wanted.
Nowhere in there was anything about the relative abilities of the two horses, just the rides they got in different editions of the same stakes race.

What's not to understand?

That puts it in perfect context actually.

[Marshall Bennett]

Then please state the relevance of using Turcotte's ride on Big Red? There were many good jockey rides before Secretariat’s 1973 Belmont victory and there has been many afterwards. Contextually I don’t get what you are saying.
Simply because the thread was regarding Secretariat's 73 Belmont and Turcotte was his jockey . I believe that's quite evident by my first post . I'm done discussing it , many here including yourself would rather look around for an argument on this board than anything else .

[Cratos]

Simply because the thread was regarding Secretariat's 73 Belmont and Turcotte was his jockey . I believe that's quite evident by my first post . I'm done discussing it , many here including yourself would rather look around for an argument on this board than anything else .

You are very wrong, I am not and never have been a member of the “argument club” on this forum and in my initial post to you I was apologetic to you by saying “Don’t take this as an affront to your post….” If you think that I want to argue this issue I can’t help it; and if you thought in the context as other posters have supported your original post that is okay too because I like you is dismissing myself from this topic.

[Marshall Bennett]

My post was within minutes of the two prior to mine . I didn't read their post until I myself had posted . Good day & no hard feelings .

[Investorater]

Perpetually into the future, racing fans will call upon his name in the evaluation of other horses.

He or she is the best of the crop, they'll say, but not a SECRETARIAT.

[joanied]

Perpetually into the future, racing fans will call upon his name in the evaluation of other horses.

He or she is the best of the crop, they'll say, but not a SECRETARIAT.

There ya go:ThmbUp:

[tucker6]

Perpetually into the future, racing fans will call upon his name in the evaluation of other horses.

He or she is the best of the crop, they'll say, but not a SECRETARIAT.
There once was a horse named Secretariat, but only once. He was both a blessing and a curse to horse racing. The things he did on the track inspire awe and tears of joy in the knowing that greatness was being seen. The curse is that it cannot be repeated.

[Saratoga_Mike]

There once was a horse named Secretariat, but only once. He was both a blessing and a curse to horse racing. The things he did on the track inspire awe and tears of joy in the knowing that greatness was being seen. The curse is that it cannot be repeated.

I love that Joe Hirsch line about Kelso - classic.

[tucker6]

I love that Joe Hirsch line about Kelso - classic.It works for many of the greats, doesn't it?

[46zilzal]

There once was a horse named Secretariat, but only once. He was both a blessing and a curse to horse racing. The things he did on the track inspire awe and tears of joy in the knowing that greatness was being seen. The curse is that it cannot be repeated.
I am sure the pundits of the 20's said the same thing about Fair Play's best son

[Saratoga_Mike]

I am sure the pundits of the 20's said the same thing about Fair Play's best son

Doubt it, Hirsch hadn't made the statement yet.

[PaceAdvantage]

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=970957#post970957

[CBedo]

23 3/5, 22 3/5, 23 3/5, 24 2/5, 24 4/5, 25Equally incredible (at least to me) were his splits in the Derby with each successive time faster than the last.

25 1/5, :24, :23 4/5, :23 2/5 and :23

[classhandicapper]

Equally incredible (at least to me) were his splits in the Derby with each successive time faster than the last.

25 1/5, :24, :23 4/5, :23 2/5 and :23

Those Derby splits are totally insane regardless of the speed of the track.

I wish I was a serious handicapper when Secretariat was running. Even though I saw his races on TV with my dad, I had zero appreciation for what I was witnessing at the time. I didn't really fall in love with the sport until 1975/76. At least I have a full appreciation of Ruffian, Slew, Bid, Affirmed/Alydar, Forego etc...

[born2ride]

look at the extension of his legs. it's almost impossible to extend that far. When I see that picture it makes me think of Go For Wand (RIP) who wanted it so bad and tried so hard that she extended too far. Secretariat had that great straight extension. moving like a tremendous machine was so Totally accurate. That Marlboro Cup win against Riva Ridge was awesome.

Exactly! The photo shows the angle between both extended legs is 110 degrees, by far and away the largest angle ever measured. This is why he had a large stride. Add in his huge heart, balanced musculature build with a powerful hind end and you have, literally, a machine.

[PhantomOnTour]

So, what we are all trying to say in this thread is (and correct me if I'm wrong)......








He was completely and totally awesome!!