What should takeout rate be?

[Canadian]

Like alot of people on here I believe the takeout rate is too high. I also believe, like alot of people on here that the high takeout rate is contributing to the death of the sport. My question is. What would the ideal takeout be? I want help in that part of my thinkingand would like to here some opinions from people who have thought about the issue far more then I.

[Rutgers]

The “ideal” takeout varies by type of wager, field size and pool size. I am not sure what the exact level is for each wager, field and pool size, but I am pretty sure in most cases it’s at a lower level then where they are at now.

However, the takeout rates are not “killing” this game. It is rebates, or more precisely different rebate levels for different players. A person has a better chance at winning at this game playing trifecta’s where everybody has a takeout rate of 25% and no rebates, then a trifecta with a takeout rate of 10%, but where the biggest and best players get a 5% rebate. (unless they are getting a 5% or better rebate as well)

I do not mean to be insulting, harsh,or uppity but if anybody does not understand that they do not have an understanding of pari-mutual wagering and how or why it works. So until there are no rebates or everybody has the same rebate, there is no “ideal” takeout level.

[cj]

8 to 10% max. If they can't run the show on that, they don't know how to run the business.

[andymays]

How about.......

1% takeout for each starter in any given race.

5 horse field 5% takeout. 16 Horse field 16% takeout.

Pick 6 takeout calculated by average number of starters.

A total fantasy but what the hell. Why not? ;)

[Tom]

And add 5% for synthetic surfaces. ;)

[Turkoman]

Like alot of people on here I believe the takeout rate is too high. I also believe, like alot of people on here that the high takeout rate is contributing to the death of the sport. My question is. What would the ideal takeout be? I want help in that part of my thinkingand would like to here some opinions from people who have thought about the issue far more then I.

I feel that 10-12% for win, place, show & 15-17% for exotic bets would be ideal. That's just my own personal opinion.

Turkoman

[DeanT]

Like alot of people on here I believe the takeout rate is too high. I also believe, like alot of people on here that the high takeout rate is contributing to the death of the sport. My question is. What would the ideal takeout be? I want help in that part of my thinkingand would like to here some opinions from people who have thought about the issue far more then I.

less than it is now :)

If you look at other jurisdictions, even those with a monopoly, they completely understand the correlation between price and volume. Hong Kong, if they want to lower takeout, must get it passed by the minister for gambling. The twist - there they know that if they lower takeout, handle will go up. If they want to lower take, like they did in 2006 to stem the tide, they have to convince the minister it won't increase gambling too much. When they did that (lower the take), they had to set aside $15M of increased profit for anti-gambling programs, to make sure people "did not get hooked on horse racing"

Imagine that - having to apply to 'hook people on racing' when you lower your take! Wow.

I don't know what the optimum is. No one really does because it is all theoretical. Plus, like Betfair proved, 5% takeouts can bring a ton of people who play poker and other games, and the techno types, to racing, when they would never even open a form if it was not there. To others it does not matter one bit. Like Gene Simmons at the Derby a couple of years ago, betting $100k to win on something. He is an inelastic bettor.

Theoretically, through what the elasticity of wagering was 10 years ago, here is a simple takeout model, which shows optimal at around 12-14% in the win pools. It is probably less than that for many, or more than that for some casual players, but it is a real world post using numbers from 10 years ago.

http://www.horseplayersassociation.org/articletakeoutmodel.html

[ralph_the_cat]

99%, then we can just end it all :(

[Robert Goren]

We at this point do not know for sure what it is. I don't think that anyone who looks it can not tell in a quick glance that 10% in the win pool is way too high. My guess is some place around 5-6%. I know in online poker when the rake gets up close to 5% the action begins to slow. Vertical or horizontal bets may be bit higher but probably not much. I am pretty sure that pools that a carry over could be a little higher. My best guesses are Win, Doubles and Exactas 5% Trifectas 6% supers, pic 3s and pic 4s 6.5% pick 6s without or with small a carry over 5% with a large carry over 8%. These are uneducated guesses based on some what limited knowledge of of optimum takeouts in other forms of gambling. I am pretty sure they are a lot lower than most people think.

[DeanT]

Im pretty sure the gambling public can figure out they are getting bent over in this match race at FPX. 4-5 on the one and 2-5 on the two.

[JustRalph]

you can't answer this question without seeing the books.........

[Stillriledup]

Im pretty sure the gambling public can figure out they are getting bent over in this match race at FPX. 4-5 on the one and 2-5 on the two.

Not to mention that the winner paid what, 3.80? He might have been paying 3.99 and they just rounded down.

You know, they round down so that tellers don't have to worry about giving bettors 19 extra cents, we wouldnt want to hold up these massive betting lines! :eek:

[DeanT]

Not to mention that the winner paid what, 3.80? He might have been paying 3.99 and they just rounded down.

You know, they round down so that tellers don't have to worry about giving bettors 19 extra cents, we wouldnt want to hold up these massive betting lines! :eek:

Breakage, like most of our money has been snatched by the fingers in the takeout pie. I think breakage goes to backstretch funds and insurance, as well into general revenues and purses. It's theirs now, and they ain't gonna give it back.

Micro-payments are alive and well on the web in successful businesses, but 19 cents out of a $2 bet is too hard for racing to give back.

[OTM Al]

Like alot of people on here I believe the takeout rate is too high. I also believe, like alot of people on here that the high takeout rate is contributing to the death of the sport. My question is. What would the ideal takeout be? I want help in that part of my thinkingand would like to here some opinions from people who have thought about the issue far more then I.

The relevant economic answer to this would be that rate that maximizes track profit. What this is I don't know, but almost makes me wish I was still doing experimental economic work to find out.

[Stillriledup]

Breakage, like most of our money has been snatched by the fingers in the takeout pie. I think breakage goes to backstretch funds and insurance, as well into general revenues and purses. It's theirs now, and they ain't gonna give it back.

Micro-payments are alive and well on the web in successful businesses, but 19 cents out of a $2 bet is too hard for racing to give back.

But its not theirs, they're stealing money from the customers.

[olddaddy]

Maybe its because I dont want to know what the take out is but watching the match race at Fairplex with a 1/2 and 4/5 shot made me quiver.

[David-LV]

A zero per cent takeout holiday at least two days a month and you just might start rebuilding the business for a starter.

________
David-LV

[Stillriledup]

Maybe its because I dont want to know what the take out is but watching the match race at Fairplex with a 1/2 and 4/5 shot made me quiver.

Its like betting on a football game. Although in Football, you get 9-10 on both teams.

[olddaddy]

Its like betting on a football game. Although in Football, you get 9-10 on both teams.

Yes but 9-10 sure beats 5-10 and 8-10.

[appistappis]

I'd like to see one of the smaller tracks that are dying a slow death anyway, try 10% across the board for a reasonable amount of time to see what, if any effect it would have.

you listening ft erie, suffolk, turf paradise, finger lakes, beulah etc etc.

[woodtoo]

I'd like to see one of the smaller tracks that are dying a slow death anyway, try 10% across the board for a reasonable amount of time to see what, if any effect it would have.

you listening ft erie, suffolk, turf paradise, finger lakes, beulah etc etc.

I'd like the takeout on the win/4 at ASD lowered from 29% to say 20% :jump:
seriously,only pick winning tickets and it wont matter :D