O'neill horse tests positive for carbon dioxide.

[Turkoman]

I just finished reading the article. Had anyone else read about it?

http://drf.com/news/second-oneill-horse-tests-positive-carbon-dioxide

Turkoman

[andymays]

Paulick Report » Blog Archive » DOUG O’NEILL - A TIRED ACT

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/doug-oneill-a-tired-act/

[Shelby]

Can someone explain what this drug does to a horse?

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Can someone explain what this drug does to a horse?
"The milkshake in question is a mixture of sodium bicarbonate, water and sugar that is fed through a rubber tube directly into a horse's stomach. It effectively slows the buildup of lactic acid, delaying the fatigue factor in racehorses."
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2005/Apr-01-Fri-2005/sports/26198082.html

[Shelby]

"The milkshake in question is a mixture of sodium bicarbonate, water and sugar that is fed through a rubber tube directly into a horse's stomach. It effectively slows the buildup of lactic acid, delaying the fatigue factor in racehorses."
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2005/Apr-01-Fri-2005/sports/26198082.html

Thank you.

So, do they run a tube down the throat of the horse, or is there a cut into the stomach???

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Thank you.

So, do they run a tube down the throat of the horse, or is there a cut into the stomach???
I'm pretty sure it done by tubing. Though it wouldn't surprise me if they could get the same type of effect using pills.

[lamboguy]

when gregory martin did it he milkshaked about 37 horses, supposedly he only had one winner. he went to jail. seems like that hasn't stopped anyone from doing it. all i know is that it is no good for the horse, maybe they should get more time in the can and that might give someone something to look forward to when they get caught. a trainer should get about ten years for milkshakes.

[RXB]

Martin didn't get sent up the river for milkshaking.

[WJ47]

when gregory martin did it he milkshaked about 37 horses, supposedly he only had one winner. he went to jail. seems like that hasn't stopped anyone from doing it. all i know is that it is no good for the horse, maybe they should get more time in the can and that might give someone something to look forward to when they get caught. a trainer should get about ten years for milkshakes.

I think it was a horse named A One Rocket that got him caught. I had Martin on my watchlist as having many miracle turnarounds. I remember a newspaper at the time talked about some mafia involvement as well.

[lamboguy]

Martin didn't get sent up the river for milkshaking.
i thought in one of the counts of the indictment stated alterning the results of a sporting event.

in any case, anyone caught doing that type of stuff deserve stiff penalties in my mind, it might make someone else think about it before deciding to cheat themselves. some people don't like doing long periods of time in the can.

[sonnyp]

owner of "a one rocket" ? the answer is..........IEAH !!!



HMMMMMMMMMMM

[joanied]

O Neill seems to be making headlines every day...the wrong kind of headlines...and still the denies he's cheating!!
And what is wrong with his owners...one would have to assume they are going along with all this...if they are honest owners, they'd take every horse they have with him away...IMO, until Dougie boy starts loosing horses, he ain't gonna stop cheating...man, 'they' have go to suspend his trainers lic. for a year...ban him off the track.

[Trotman]

Repeated violators show that each juristiction has absolutly no power and until a North American authority is set up that has this power to get rid of these bums we are wasting our breath and money.

[Turkoman]

I agree with both joanied and trotman.

Turkoman

[JustRalph]

Repeated violators show that each juristiction has absolutly no power and until a North American authority is set up that has this power to get rid of these bums we are wasting our breath and money.

How about an organization of Horseplayers who leans on the owners?

[Trotman]

JustRalph I agree, lets face it can these owners and trainers not see that us bettors is all they have. We are what separates these trainers from the life they have and being a greeter at a dept. store if that.

[joanied]

I have always thought that the biggest reason horse racing is in the mess it's in is because we have too many committees, too many factions that just don't communicate...the one thing they can do for racing that will at least jump start the road to recovery, would be to elect a central governing board...and to have uniform rules & regulations...this crap that each state with race tracks has it's own set of rules doesn't work...maybe decades ago before we had so many tracks...racing is truly coast to coast (as opposed to the 'old' days when shipping wasn't used so much)...we have to get a body of informed, intelligent horsemen, and a few vets, to form an organization that rules over every track...and inforces the rules to the maximum.

meantime...these cheating SOB's and their owners, which are either cheating SOB's also, or just plain ignorant...will keep doing what they are doing...and it really gets me pissed off:mad:

[Trotman]

Joanied :ThmbUp: I agree

[Stillriledup]

I have always thought that the biggest reason horse racing is in the mess it's in is because we have too many committees, too many factions that just don't communicate...the one thing they can do for racing that will at least jump start the road to recovery, would be to elect a central governing board...and to have uniform rules & regulations...this crap that each state with race tracks has it's own set of rules doesn't work...maybe decades ago before we had so many tracks...racing is truly coast to coast (as opposed to the 'old' days when shipping wasn't used so much)...we have to get a body of informed, intelligent horsemen, and a few vets, to form an organization that rules over every track...and inforces the rules to the maximum.

meantime...these cheating SOB's and their owners, which are either cheating SOB's also, or just plain ignorant...will keep doing what they are doing...and it really gets me pissed off:mad:


The problem is the conflict of interest.

Lets take a look at the NBA for example. The refs are hired BY the NBA and they know that if the Lakers play the Celtics in the finals, it will generate more revenue than if the Milw Bucks play the OKC Thunder. Do they 'manipulate' some of the officiating to get marquis matchups? After all, their employer would make more money should the Lakers happen to advance to the finals to play Boston.

This works the same in racing. If you suspend all the drug trainers, fine them tens of thousands and kick them out of the sport, you're just going to make it harder for the entry box to be filled. If tracks in the USA were under an iron ruling fisted Czar who prosecuted and jailed ANY trainer who had a horse test positive for ANYTHING illegal and didn't permit cheap claimers to race on anything other than some good old fashion hay and some modern spring water, than there's no way there would be as many horses in the entry boxes as we have today. So, where am i going with this? I'm saying that there's sort of a bunch of proof that bigger fields beget bigger betting handle, why would juristictions rule with an iron fist? So they can get shorter fields and make less money?

[Turkoman]

The problem is the conflict of interest.

Lets take a look at the NBA for example. The refs are hired BY the NBA and they know that if the Lakers play the Celtics in the finals, it will generate more revenue than if the Milw Bucks play the OKC Thunder. Do they 'manipulate' some of the officiating to get marquis matchups? After all, their employer would make more money should the Lakers happen to advance to the finals to play Boston.

This works the same in racing. If you suspend all the drug trainers, fine them tens of thousands and kick them out of the sport, you're just going to make it harder for the entry box to be filled. If tracks in the USA were under an iron ruling fisted Czar who prosecuted and jailed ANY trainer who had a horse test positive for ANYTHING illegal and didn't permit cheap claimers to race on anything other than some good old fashion hay and some modern spring water, than there's no way there would be as many horses in the entry boxes as we have today. So, where am i going with this? I'm saying that there's sort of a bunch of proof that bigger fields beget bigger betting handle, why would juristictions rule with an iron fist? So they can get shorter fields and make less money?

Yeah, and guess why we have to deal with this ugly situation today? Because none of these cheaters were disciplined from the very beginning, several years ago. It would have been a whole different ballgame these days.

Turkoman

[Stillriledup]

Yeah, and guess why we have to deal with this ugly situation today? Because none of these cheaters were disciplined from the very beginning, several years ago. It would have been a whole different ballgame these days.

Turkoman


The more discipline the cheaters get, the less horses they will be running.

Disciplining trainers and not permitting horses to run is the same as if the NFL didn't permit any of its players to use painkillers on Sunday. Nearing the end of the NFL season, most of those guys are so beat up that they couldnt play on Sunday if it wasnt' for the magic of the team trainers. Those guys have everything known to man in their systems to help them play the game, if Roger Goodell said "you can't have ANYTHING in your system on game day" Nothing. No aspirin, no caffeine, no painkillers no nothing. We test for everyhing.

If that happened, a lot of the NFL's stars would be sitting on the sidelines in week 15.

[Turkoman]

The more discipline the cheaters get, the less horses they will be running.

Disciplining trainers and not permitting horses to run is the same as if the NFL didn't permit any of its players to use painkillers on Sunday. Nearing the end of the NFL season, most of those guys are so beat up that they couldnt play on Sunday if it wasnt' for the magic of the team trainers. Those guys have everything known to man in their systems to help them play the game, if Roger Goodell said "you can't have ANYTHING in your system on game day" Nothing. No aspirin, no caffeine, no painkillers no nothing. We test for everyhing.

If that happened, a lot of the NFL's stars would be sitting on the sidelines in week 15.

Well, wait just a minute. While those players can have certain things, they do have regulations. Don't tell me they can simply take anything they wish. Look at major league baseball. When MLB started making changes in 2004-05, approximately, everything seemed to be so chaotic each time a player was being caught. The media had an abundance of stories to write about. But now things are quite different. Things just can't happen overnight. We've got to start somewhere. And this is the problem with horse racing. The people who run the sport don't want to go through the sacrifice. That's what it seems like to me. So, as horseplayers, should we just be satisfied with what's going on, or should we all put the pressure on to see if positive changes are made?

Turkoman

[DeanT]

If they tell ONeill to get the F out there will be short term pain in the fields, but over time they will come back. Cali does not do anything for short term pain for long term gain though. They never have.

[Stillriledup]

Well, wait just a minute. While those players can have certain things, they do have regulations. Don't tell me they can simply take anything they wish. Look at major league baseball. When MLB started making changes in 2004-05, approximately, everything seemed to be so chaotic each time a player was being caught. The media had an abundance of stories to write about. But now things are quite different. Things just can't happen overnight. We've got to start somewhere. And this is the problem with horse racing. The people who run the sport don't want to go through the sacrifice. That's what it seems like to me. So, as horseplayers, should we just be satisfied with what's going on, or should we all put the pressure on to see if positive changes are made?

Turkoman


They can't take anything, but there's a lot they CAN take. This entire steroid episode in the NFL and MLB is just for show, its to convince an uneducated public that the sport is clean. Its a clean game, no steroids is what they're all saying but we know that these players are on performance enhancers such as caffeine.

[Turkoman]

They can't take anything, but there's a lot they CAN take. This entire steroid episode in the NFL and MLB is just for show, its to convince an uneducated public that the sport is clean. Its a clean game, no steroids is what they're all saying but we know that these players are on performance enhancers such as caffeine.

Ok, fine. I respect your opinion about the NFL & MLB, but I thought you were going to answer my question. I KNOW you're in the west coast, and I KNOW you're upset about a couple of things over there, including surface issues, etc. But I still haven't heard from you that you would like to see a radical and complete turn around, as far as banned substances are concerned. At this point I'd rather see the iron fist, instead of the sad and slow death that I'm painfully experiencing with horse racing.

Turkoman

[Stillriledup]

Ok, fine. I respect your opinion about the NFL & MLB, but I thought you were going to answer my question. I KNOW you're in the west coast, and I KNOW you're upset about a couple of things over there, including surface issues, etc. But I still haven't heard from you that you would like to see a radical and complete turn around, as far as banned substances are concerned. At this point I'd rather see the iron fist, instead of the sad and slow death that I'm painfully experiencing with horse racing.

Turkoman

An iron fist would be amazing if it ever happened. They need someone to come in and clean house.

[Turkoman]

An iron fist would be amazing if it ever happened. They need someone to come in and clean house.

Well, excellent. At least this time you finally said what you thought should be done. Before you sounded pretty negative about everything. I'm not saying things are looking bright right now, but I know what I want to see.

Turkoman

[thaskalos]

Ok, fine. I respect your opinion about the NFL & MLB, but I thought you were going to answer my question. I KNOW you're in the west coast, and I KNOW you're upset about a couple of things over there, including surface issues, etc. But I still haven't heard from you that you would like to see a radical and complete turn around, as far as banned substances are concerned. At this point I'd rather see the iron fist, instead of the sad and slow death that I'm painfully experiencing with horse racing.

TurkomanAllow me to present an example from another form of gambling.

The casinos will prosecute cheaters to the full extent of the law, in every game that they offer... except for poker. There has never been even one case of an arrest at the poker tables of the casinos...eventhough it is common knowledge that the poker games can be easily "compromised".

Why won't the casinos prosecute the poker cheats?

Very simple. When a blackjack player, a roulette player or a slots player cheats, he steals from the "house"...and the casino won't tolerate it.

When a poker player cheats, he steals from the other players...and the casino's profits are not affected in the least. So the casino does not get involved.

If news of a "crooked" poker game get out...the casino loses money.

The same thing occurs at the racetrack. When the trainer cheats, who is he stealing from?

From the bettors and the non cheating trainers, of course. The race track's profits remain intact.

Since the race track's profits are not affected...why should they get deeply involved?

So...the racing board hands out these "slap on the wrist" fines just to keep up appearances...knowing full well that these minor fines will not adversely affect the operations of the game, which would then bring a negative affect on the track's profits.

[PaceAdvantage]

i thought in one of the counts of the indictment stated alterning the results of a sporting event.

in any case, anyone caught doing that type of stuff deserve stiff penalties in my mind, it might make someone else think about it before deciding to cheat themselves. some people don't like doing long periods of time in the can.Here is what actually happened:

Trainer Gregory Martin, who in March pleaded guilty to charges for his role in an alleged multi-million dollar illegal gambling ring, was sentenced to two years probation with six months home confinement on Tuesday during an appearance in a New York federal court.
Martin, 39, who is the son of Hall of Fame trainer Frank Martin, also received a $2,000 fine from U.S. District Judge Miriam Goldman Cedarbaum during a hearing held in the Southern District of New York courthouse in New York, N.Y. http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/35516/trainer-martin-sentenced

[thaskalos]

My point exactly...

[RXB]

i thought in one of the counts of the indictment stated alterning the results of a sporting event.

in any case, anyone caught doing that type of stuff deserve stiff penalties in my mind, it might make someone else think about it before deciding to cheat themselves. some people don't like doing long periods of time in the can.

Yes, but to repeat: Martin didn't go to jail. He got probation and home confinement. And he didn't get indicted for milkshaking a horse; he got indicted for milkshaking a horse for the purpose of allowing a bunch of mobsters and ne'er-do-wells with whom he was associated to pull off a gambling coup. The Feds aren't going to go after Doug O'Neill, Jeff Mullins, etc. just because of CO2 overages. If everyone who tried to take a business edge got thrown into the Big House... well, if you think prisons are overcrowded now...

It's up to the tracks and the state racing commissions to deal with cheating trainers (and, in my opinion, owners who are complicit in the cheating).

[DeanT]

Yes, but to repeat: Martin didn't go to jail. He got probation and home confinement. And he didn't get indicted for milkshaking a horse; he got indicted for milkshaking a horse for the purpose of allowing a bunch of mobsters and ne'er-do-wells with whom he was associated to pull off a gambling coup. The Feds aren't going to go after Doug O'Neill, Jeff Mullins, etc. just because of CO2 overages. If everyone who tried to take a business edge got thrown into the Big House... well, if you think prisons are overcrowded now...

It's up to the tracks and the state racing commissions to deal with cheating trainers (and, in my opinion, owners who are complicit in the cheating).

It's murky for sure. I would assume the only thing you can go on is fraud. Let's say I sell you my house. I doctor something like a roof to pass inspection, and I know I am faking it. If it is found that I doctored it, I am going to have some fraud trouble. I would guess it is not different with a horse. If I sell a horse to you that has been running on EPO, doctoring his performance, where he is worth 10k instead of 100k, I would assume it is similar.

I dont know that much will happen, with this kind of stuff. This is not Hong Kong. This is a country where if a trainer is caught electrovuting or abusing a horse for financial gain he might not even be charged, and if he is, he is allowed to work with horses again after paying a fine, or doing a bit of community service. If a dog groomer was found to do similar, he would be banished by the courts from working with animals, or even owning one, and maybe even put in jail (see Mike Vick).

It's truly sad, imo. All horses want is a meal and a home and he/she will work for you and be trusting.

[JustRalph]

Doug O'Neill's training title is marred by accusations

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-simers-20100909,0,3614603.column

sorry if this has already been posted......... couldn't find it anywhere on the board

TJ Simers on the Doug O'Neill training title