Had enough ?

[skate]

:lol: Oh, things are flyin now...;)


Health insurers say they plan to raise premiums for some Americans as a direct result of the health overhaul in coming weeks, complicating Democrats' efforts to trumpet their signature achievement before the midterm elections.


this just might be the funniest day :lol: in the history of the USA.



Janet, from the WSJ puts it this way;
Aetna Inc., some BlueCross BlueShield plans and other smaller carriers have asked for premium increases of between 1% and 9% to pay for extra benefits required under the law, according to filings with state regulators.

These and other insurers say Congress's landmark refashioning of U.S. health coverage, which passed in March after a brutal fight, is causing them to pass on more costs to consumers than Democrats predicted.


:eek: Now who could've seen all this comin, Hey SUFF, where's you now?:lol:

sorry, but i just hadda:lol:

[bigmack]

Yippee, 400,000 jobs immediately! :D

ELcgS9gTKhU

[Mike at A+]

Two months ago, my family rate went up 16.9%.

[46zilzal]

The rest of the world figured out health care a long time back....

[bigmack]

The rest of the world figured out health care a long time back....
Like 6 month waiting lists for specialists. Mmmm, Canadian HC. Brilliant.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/9_8_10_12_23_02.png

[Tom]

Now who could've seen all this comin, Hey SUFF, where's you now?:lol:
Canada? :rolleyes:

[46zilzal]

The propaganda machine keeps churning it out....No one is going bankrupt here and all this bs is simply bs as I worked in the system for over 30 years

[Tom]

Two months ago, my family rate went up 16.9%.

Mine's going 12-15% come January.

Thanks you MR. President, you lying sack of crap.

[Dave Schwartz]

Mine just went up over 20% a couple of months ago.

[bigmack]

No one is going bankrupt here
They're not bankrupt, they're dead. Had to wait too long to get an accurate diagnosis.

[Robert Goren]

This because they might actual have to pay a claim instead of just sending out premium notices.

[skate]

The propaganda machine keeps churning it out....No one is going bankrupt here and all this bs is simply bs as I worked in the system for over 30 years

now you tell us, funnier yet.

cost go up and "it's What", you said "Propaganda"?

Check your keys, man, you can't be thinkin what your typin.

[cj's dad]

The rest of the world figured out health care a long time back....

ONCE AGAIN, THE CONDESCENDING ATTITUDE.

Translation from 46: You stupid Americans just don't get it. We in Canada, Europe and the rest of the civilized world have taken care of our citizens so well that none ever have to come to America for treatment.

Johns Hopkins Hospital often is laying off staff due to a shortage of patients from countries with doctors who couldn' t repair a bleeding ulcer, let alone a heart transplant or a separation of co-joined twins.

Go Canada; your medical expertise so exceeds that available here in the good old USA.

[46zilzal]

I have many a friend TRYING to practice under the HMO system and my sister is always calling me to help her understand operative reports as she is a coder for billing in S. California. That system is so out of balance as far as fees versus output, it is a true shame.

[bigmack]

I have many a friend TRYING to practice under the HMO system and my sister is always calling me to help her understand operative reports as she is a coder for billing in S. California. That system is so out of balance as far as fees versus output, it is a true shame.
Don't worry about us, the system in your adopted land is failing all around you.

British Columbia is replacing block grants to hospitals with fee-for-procedure payments and Quebec has a new flat health tax and a proposal for payments on each medical visit -- an idea that critics say is an illegal user fee.
"There's got to be some change to the status quo whether it happens in three years or 10 years," said Derek Burleton, senior economist at Toronto-Dominion Bank.

"We can't continually see health spending growing above and beyond the growth rate in the economy because, at some point, it means crowding out of all the other government services.

"At some stage we're going to hit a breaking point."
May 31, 2010 Reuters article: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64U3XO20100531

[newtothegame]

This because they might actual have to pay a claim instead of just sending out premium notices.

Goren...you missed the point. But, along the lines you mentioned...did you expect that the PRIVATE insurance companies were just going to absorb this cost???? You couldnt really believe that. Could ya??? :lol:

All of us conservatives told the libs EXACTLY what would happen. Mosty, NJ and a few others told us how we were wrong to lie. How we were just trying to spin it. Guess we werent the ones spinning anything huh???

Guess all the people here who mentioned DIRECT rate increases are lying too?

You libs and progressives healthcare program was nothing more then washington pee..ing on our leg and tell us its raining. Continue to buy into the crap this admin is telling us....it's only going to get worse.

I am still waiting for someone to come forward (with proof cause I know the libs have to respond) of someone actually getting lower healthcare cost!

[hcap]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/09/08/affordable-care-act-did-not-cause-unjust-premium-increases

Today’s Wall Street Journal reports that some health insurance companies are blaming the Affordable Care Act for premium increases that were planned long before the law was passed. We knew this would happen, which is why the President called on insurance companies not to use the Affordable Care Act as an excuse to implement unreasonable premium increases. In fact, when one insurance company in the State of Washington was called out for telling its beneficiaries that rate increases were due to the Affordable Care Act, that company agreed to issue a new letter clarifying the reasons for the increase.


.....The premium increases discussed today – many of which were planned before the Affordable Care Act was even signed into law– demonstrate that reform came at a critical time. In fact, consumers have faced unreasonable double digit premium increases for more than a decade, including employer-sponsored plans where premiums have more than doubled since 2000.

The premium increases discussed today – many of which were planned before the Affordable Care Act was even signed into law– demonstrate that reform came at a critical time. In fact, consumers have faced unreasonable double digit premium increases for more than a decade, including employer-sponsored plans where premiums have more than doubled since 2000.

...Finally, we estimate that any potential premium impact from the new consumer protections and increased quality provisions under the Affordable Care Act will be minimal – no more than 1-2 percent -- which will be further offset by other out of pocket savings implemented in the law. Here’s how:

* Reducing the “hidden tax” on insured Americans: Today, families with insurance pay a $1,000 hidden tax to subsidize care for the uninsured. By making sure insurance covers people who are most at risk, there will be less uncompensated care and the amount of cost shifting among those who have coverage today will be reduced by up to $1 billion in 2013.
* Improving Americans’ health: By making sure that high-risk individuals have insurance and emphasizing health care that prevents illnesses from becoming serious, long-term health problems, the law will reduce avoidable hospitalizations.
* Preventing bankruptcy: Medical costs contribute to about half of the more than 500,000 personal bankruptcies in the U.S. in 2007. Bankruptcies can be avoided through ensuring insurance companies can’t drop people when they get sick, can’t place a lifetime or unrestricted annual limit on coverage, or discriminate against kids with preexisting conditions.
* Preventing illness: Reducing preventable illness through new prevention coverage will result in significant savings. For instance, preventing obesity will lower premiums by .05 to .1 percent. Every dollar spent on immunizations could save $5.30 on direct health care costs and $16.50 on total societal costs of disease. Reducing preventable illness can also increase worker productivity – today, increased sickness and lack of coverage security reduce economic output by $260 billion per year.
* Reducing Out of Pocket Costs: Preventive health benefits will also help reduce out of pocket costs. For example, guidelines suggest that a 58-year old woman who is at risk for heart disease should receive a mammogram, a colon cancer screening, a Pap test, a diabetes test, a cholesterol test, and an annual flu shot; under a typical insurance plan, these tests could cost more than $300 out of her own pocket.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Mine's going 12-15% come January.

Thanks you MR. President, you lying sack of crap.


Tom, how dare you talk so disparingly about sacks of crap.

[Robert Goren]

Goren...you missed the point. But, along the lines you mentioned...did you expect that the PRIVATE insurance companies were just going to absorb this cost???? You couldnt really believe that. Could ya??? :lol:

All of us conservatives told the libs EXACTLY what would happen. Mosty, NJ and a few others told us how we were wrong to lie. How we were just trying to spin it. Guess we werent the ones spinning anything huh???

Guess all the people here who mentioned DIRECT rate increases are lying too?

You libs and progressives healthcare program was nothing more then washington pee..ing on our leg and tell us its raining. Continue to buy into the crap this admin is telling us....it's only going to get worse.

I am still waiting for someone to come forward (with proof cause I know the libs have to respond) of someone actually getting lower healthcare cost!You missed my point. The insurance companies have been collecting premiums with the promise they would pay for your medical cost if you got sick. As I found out the the hard way, that what they do as long as the bills don't get too big. But when a big bill comes along they can/could just refuse to pay and there was nothing you could do about it. They have been charging like they would pay and pocketing the money for years. You jest continue to believe the lies the insurance companies tell. I hope you never get really sick and have to go through what I did with them.

[skate]

you see, here Am Health Ins Plans President Ignagni says, do to additional benefits under the NEW Law.
Some of the new laws include, coverage for 26 year old CHILDREN, which includes Hiccups.

She states as follows;

Ignagni, president of America's Health Insurance Plans, said:

"It's a basic law of economics that additional benefits incur additional costs, and the impact on premiums depends on the type and amount of coverage policyholders had before." She attributed rising premiums to the higher price of medical services and the impact of younger and healthier people dropping their insurance during the weak economy, as well as the additional benefits required under the new law.

, Article says the new laws attribute from 1 to 9% to increases.

[TheFlagIsUp]

:lol: Oh, things are flyin now...;)


Health insurers say they plan to raise premiums for some Americans as a direct result of the health overhaul in coming weeks, complicating Democrats' efforts to trumpet their signature achievement before the midterm elections.


this just might be the funniest day :lol: in the history of the USA.



Janet, from the WSJ puts it this way;
Aetna Inc., some BlueCross BlueShield plans and other smaller carriers have asked for premium increases of between 1% and 9% to pay for extra benefits required under the law, according to filings with state regulators.

These and other insurers say Congress's landmark refashioning of U.S. health coverage, which passed in March after a brutal fight, is causing them to pass on more costs to consumers than Democrats predicted.


:eek: Now who could've seen all this comin, Hey SUFF, where's you now?:lol:

sorry, but i just hadda:lol:


I wonder what was causing them to screw us for the past 20 years.....?

[sandpit]

I've seen my rates go up by leaps and bounds for several years, I don't see how this Obamacare nonsense is going to help or hurt.

I do know one thing for fact. We got an email yesterday telling us that beginning next Jan. 1, there is a new law going into effect that makes it illegal to claim over the counter medications on you Health Savings Account, unless you have a note from a doctor. So, if you suffer from migraines, for example, and take Excedrin migraine for relief, you have to get an m.d. to approve its use. Ditto for the millions of allergy suffers who get relief from Claritin et al. More needless bureaucracy.

[skate]

I wonder what was causing them to screw us for the past 20 years.....?

but here they are giving us Free Health care, so what's to beef about?

At least it's not the same old story, right, isUp.


Tell em how they put the screws to ya for the past 30 years.

[TrifectaMike]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/09/08/affordable-care-act-did-not-cause-unjust-premium-increases

Today’s Wall Street Journal reports that some health insurance companies are blaming the Affordable Care Act for premium increases that were planned long before the law was passed. We knew this would happen, which is why the President called on insurance companies not to use the Affordable Care Act as an excuse to implement unreasonable premium increases. In fact, when one insurance company in the State of Washington was called out for telling its beneficiaries that rate increases were due to the Affordable Care Act, that company agreed to issue a new letter clarifying the reasons for the increase.


.....The premium increases discussed today – many of which were planned before the Affordable Care Act was even signed into law– demonstrate that reform came at a critical time. In fact, consumers have faced unreasonable double digit premium increases for more than a decade, including employer-sponsored plans where premiums have more than doubled since 2000.

The premium increases discussed today – many of which were planned before the Affordable Care Act was even signed into law– demonstrate that reform came at a critical time. In fact, consumers have faced unreasonable double digit premium increases for more than a decade, including employer-sponsored plans where premiums have more than doubled since 2000.

...Finally, we estimate that any potential premium impact from the new consumer protections and increased quality provisions under the Affordable Care Act will be minimal – no more than 1-2 percent -- which will be further offset by other out of pocket savings implemented in the law. Here’s how:

* Reducing the “hidden tax” on insured Americans: Today, families with insurance pay a $1,000 hidden tax to subsidize care for the uninsured. By making sure insurance covers people who are most at risk, there will be less uncompensated care and the amount of cost shifting among those who have coverage today will be reduced by up to $1 billion in 2013.
* Improving Americans’ health: By making sure that high-risk individuals have insurance and emphasizing health care that prevents illnesses from becoming serious, long-term health problems, the law will reduce avoidable hospitalizations.
* Preventing bankruptcy: Medical costs contribute to about half of the more than 500,000 personal bankruptcies in the U.S. in 2007. Bankruptcies can be avoided through ensuring insurance companies can’t drop people when they get sick, can’t place a lifetime or unrestricted annual limit on coverage, or discriminate against kids with preexisting conditions.
* Preventing illness: Reducing preventable illness through new prevention coverage will result in significant savings. For instance, preventing obesity will lower premiums by .05 to .1 percent. Every dollar spent on immunizations could save $5.30 on direct health care costs and $16.50 on total societal costs of disease. Reducing preventable illness can also increase worker productivity – today, increased sickness and lack of coverage security reduce economic output by $260 billion per year.
* Reducing Out of Pocket Costs: Preventive health benefits will also help reduce out of pocket costs. For example, guidelines suggest that a 58-year old woman who is at risk for heart disease should receive a mammogram, a colon cancer screening, a Pap test, a diabetes test, a cholesterol test, and an annual flu shot; under a typical insurance plan, these tests could cost more than $300 out of her own pocket.

I guess we should all die healthy

Mike

[newtothegame]

You missed my point. The insurance companies have been collecting premiums with the promise they would pay for your medical cost if you got sick. As I found out the the hard way, that what they do as long as the bills don't get too big. But when a big bill comes along they can/could just refuse to pay and there was nothing you could do about it. They have been charging like they would pay and pocketing the money for years. You jest continue to believe the lies the insurance companies tell. I hope you never get really sick and have to go through what I did with them.

Its not about lies...well maybe it is...the lies of this administration. I have not defended the insurance companies. What I have said is that its a private business and the government intervention would make it worse. AS IS HAPPENING. There are things that can help in my opinion....

Why is no one in congress talking about the legal side?

You know the tons and tons of money that are paid into litigation when the LAWYERS win?

There needs to be reform...but reform is not "let me be clear....we are gonna solve the health care problem by going after insurance companies"....
B.O had and has no intentions of going after insurance companies....

Lets talk about DRUG cost.....

And if were gonna talk about regulations on the insurance industry....(which again I am against the government intervening in ANY private business affairs), then why don't the government just take FULL ownership?
hell they can't even run a damn railroad and you think they can run an entire healthcare industry???

There has to be a solution....it's just not B.O!

[46zilzal]

Drug costs are nuts. I used to write "for office use" Rx's for those who could not afford meds and would get them at the pharmacy cost. Meds that might cost the patient $40, I would get for around $10 and would then give them to those in need who did not have the money.

AMORAL bastards who keep the medical costs out of reach of the poor and ill are real scum

AND the lazy bastards who don't take the time to know the social situation of the people who need care (to decide if an older generic would be more reasonable for them) are just as complicit.

[skate]

21,586 post number

and now we have the new Zilly bop, a persciption in place of...

a little conception.

Serious man, i was wondering if you had it in you, thank you very much.:kiss:

[slewis]

There has to be a solution....it's just not B.O!

Newby,

Why does there have to be a solution?

Tell you what...REGARDLESS of ANY suggestions the Repugs made during and after the Presidential election on Health Care reform, the old system would continue to implode unless changes were made.
Buying and opening up insurance across state lines will do little if nothing to hold prices in check in an industry where the costs are out of control.

Anyone with a brain knew that ins. companies were going to really turn up the heat and make Americans think Obamacare will fail.
Heck, everyone saw the thousands of commercials they ran on radio and TV prior to the vote to try and put Americans in a rage against the Democrats writing the law.

But as an independent, Ive stated this once and I'll state it again:

If nothing is SERIOUSLY done to get health care down, it will destroy this country. And MORE IMPORTANTLY...the sooner you get health care off the backs of businesses into some sort of Govt regulated system single payer system, the sooner businesses wil be able to grow and DO BUSINESS and invest and hire and HOPEFULLY REBUILD THE MIDDLE CLASS which is the only way to get this country stable again.

Regardless of the degree of Govt involvement in Health care for the majority of the masses, those that are well off will ALWAYS get the care they need.
That's the way it goes down in America, if you got $$$$$ you get what you need.

Now you make a very valid point about Govt not being able to run businesses very well. I agree. Except, and I made this point on other threads, except...the US Military. Which is the most advanced, most sophisticated and far superior animal on the planet.
So it's not that our Govt is incapable. It's that most other projects are "porky" and loaded with "favors" to reward those who got the pols elected.

Washington, regardless of which party runs the country in the near future, had BETTER well understand, that at this time in our history, a HEALTHCARE overhaul, just like our national security, is not something with headroom for favors and failure.

Everyone, regardless whether you sit on the left or right, just needs to look at the escalating costs over the last decade to accept the reality that no change = collapse and failure.

[newtothegame]

Newby,

Why does there have to be a solution?

Tell you what...REGARDLESS of ANY suggestions the Repugs made during and after the Presidential election on Health Care reform, the old system would continue to implode unless changes were made.
Buying and opening up insurance across state lines will do little if nothing to hold prices in check in an industry where the costs are out of control.

Anyone with a brain knew that ins. companies were going to really turn up the heat and make Americans think Obamacare will fail.
Heck, everyone saw the thousands of commercials they ran on radio and TV prior to the vote to try and put Americans in a rage against the Democrats writing the law.

But as an independent, Ive stated this once and I'll state it again:

If nothing is SERIOUSLY done to get health care down, it will destroy this country. And MORE IMPORTANTLY...the sooner you get health care off the backs of businesses into some sort of Govt regulated system single payer system, the sooner businesses wil be able to grow and DO BUSINESS and invest and hire and HOPEFULLY REBUILD THE MIDDLE CLASS which is the only way to get this country stable again.

Regardless of the degree of Govt involvement in Health care for the majority of the masses, those that are well off will ALWAYS get the care they need.
That's the way it goes down in America, if you got $$$$$ you get what you need.

Now you make a very valid point about Govt not being able to run businesses very well. I agree. Except, and I made this point on other threads, except...the US Military. Which is the most advanced, most sophisticated and far superior animal on the planet.
So it's not that our Govt is incapable. It's that most other projects are "porky" and loaded with "favors" to reward those who got the pols elected.

Washington, regardless of which party runs the country in the near future, had BETTER well understand, that at this time in our history, a HEALTHCARE overhaul, just like our national security, is not something with headroom for favors and failure.

Everyone, regardless whether you sit on the left or right, just needs to look at the escalating costs over the last decade to accept the reality that no change = collapse and failure.

Slew...thanks for your reposnse.....and for the MOST part, I agree.

I have never said that healthcare cost were ok where they are at. As a matter of fact, I have mentioned a few things right off the top such as drug prices and mal practice costs. I am sure there are a ton more such as Illegals and the cost they post ontop the system....
The cost of running TWENTY test to verify the verifications (which is in mal practice arena).
We do need to do something...just NOT government intervention unless the GOVERNMENT wants to run it solely (which again in my opinion would be a joke).
As for your comments about the military....IT IS THE FINEST MACHINE THROUGHOUT THE WORLD...but that doesnt mean its run good. I've been there and lived it. The prices the military pays to contractors is OUTRAGEOUS! We've all heard about the 500 dollar toilet seats!!!

I would also go one step further and say that in the upcoming elections, I am not for the repugs. I don't think they do us any favors either. We need NON incumbents who understand this is a make our break time in our history and that SERIOUS changes have to occur.

[boxcar]

Newby,

Why does there have to be a solution?

Tell you what...REGARDLESS of ANY suggestions the Repugs made during and after the Presidential election on Health Care reform, the old system would continue to implode unless changes were made.
Buying and opening up insurance across state lines will do little if nothing to hold prices in check in an industry where the costs are out of control.

Anyone with a brain knew that ins. companies were going to really turn up the heat and make Americans think Obamacare will fail.
Heck, everyone saw the thousands of commercials they ran on radio and TV prior to the vote to try and put Americans in a rage against the Democrats writing the law.

But as an independent, Ive stated this once and I'll state it again:

If nothing is SERIOUSLY done to get health care down, it will destroy this country. And MORE IMPORTANTLY...the sooner you get health care off the backs of businesses into some sort of Govt regulated system single payer system, the sooner businesses wil be able to grow and DO BUSINESS and invest and hire and HOPEFULLY REBUILD THE MIDDLE CLASS which is the only way to get this country stable again.

Regardless of the degree of Govt involvement in Health care for the majority of the masses, those that are well off will ALWAYS get the care they need.
That's the way it goes down in America, if you got $$$$$ you get what you need.

Now you make a very valid point about Govt not being able to run businesses very well. I agree. Except, and I made this point on other threads, except...the US Military. Which is the most advanced, most sophisticated and far superior animal on the planet.
So it's not that our Govt is incapable. It's that most other projects are "porky" and loaded with "favors" to reward those who got the pols elected.

Washington, regardless of which party runs the country in the near future, had BETTER well understand, that at this time in our history, a HEALTHCARE overhaul, just like our national security, is not something with headroom for favors and failure.

Everyone, regardless whether you sit on the left or right, just needs to look at the escalating costs over the last decade to accept the reality that no change = collapse and failure.

Beg, borrow or steal a clue, Lewis. The government doesn't run anything well because it doesn't have to. It's not their money on the line. It's the taxpayers' money. Government has zero incentive to be good stewards of other people's money, most especially when politicians believe the depth to taxpayers' pockets have never been plumbed and never will -- and perhaps even more importantly when politicians, through the income tax system, can use taxpayers' money to bribe voters of their votes. This is precisely why government has never had a modicum of real business sense. Who needs stinkin' business sense when it's other people's money and power-hungry politicians' own careers that are on the line? Why in the world do you think no establishment/career politician would ever vote for a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution? You really believe for a nanosecond that a that this kind of politician would severely restrict his own funding? If so, then tell us how often politicians have voted down pay raises for themselves. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Boxcar