Why do we keep coming back???

[sq764]

With mysterious late money hitting the pool, corruption among the jockey ranks, trainers getting nailed for drugs, horses on the lead hitting the 1/2 mile at 5/1, crossing the wire at 7/2 and paying $7.00, ridiculous takeouts, admission, parking, rude treatment at casinos....

...why do we keep coming back day after day??

If a non-horseracing fan knew that we knew all this and still kept pumping our money through the windows, wouldn't they think we are all nuts?

Are we??

[Dave Schwartz]

No.

[GameTheory]

As opposed to the good old days when there was no corruption in horse racing? I think that late money stuff (most of it) is pure paranoia.

Personally, I think this is the golden age for horseplayers in terms of opportunities to make money....

[formula_2002]

Originally posted by sq764

...why do we keep coming back day after day??




Four why reason MOST people keep coming back to play the game.

1. Odds and the lack of understanding them.
2. Odds, once understood, a complete disregards for them.
3. Odds once understood and regarded the inability to appreciate the volatility of them.
4. It’s not a money making interest of theirs.

[JimG]

The main reason to keep coming back for me is to make money and my love of the sport itself.

Jim

[rmania]

Originally posted by sq764
With mysterious late money hitting the pool, corruption among the jockey ranks, trainers getting nailed for drugs, horses on the lead hitting the 1/2 mile at 5/1, crossing the wire at 7/2 and paying $7.00, ridiculous takeouts, admission, parking, rude treatment at casinos....
Of all that you mention, the only valid point (IMO) is parking.

At Del Mar grandstand admission is $5 which includes a $2 program. So, you could look at it as only $3. You’ll pay 3 times that to go to a movie on a Friday night.

General parking is also $5 (even if you park in an empty field) which is a total ripoff.

If you haven’t figured out where the “mysterious late money” is coming from well.... it’s money coming in from around the world. And the only way to correct this is to stop accepting wagers a couple of minutes before the gates open and I don’t think any of us would like that.

As for corruption among jockeys and trainers, it’s always been there. But when compared to corruption associated with other types of gambling (mainly casinos) I don’t think we have much to complain about.

And as for “rude treatment by casinos”, this should be expected since they’re not making direct revenue from you unless they’re booking the bets in which case you’re probably treated well.

I don’t have a problem with the takeout. After all, the track needs money to operate and I have to believe (at least in Calif.) that the percentage has to be justified through the state racing commission.

The cost of a Racing Form is outrageous, but then we’re not being forced to buy one. And the prices for food and beverages are worse. But we don’t have to buy these either.

As for me, I keep coming back because racing to me requires more skill than luck to be successful. And I’ve never been a very “lucky” person.;)

[sq764]

Corruption in the casinos??

You think we have a better shot at making money with 10 human jocks in a race or on the blackjack table with just you and the cards?

[Zaf]

Remember we are talking about gambling here. It can be addictive / complusive. Many players on a daily basis fit into this category and they won't stop under any conditions. So there is a good core of people who will support this industry no matter what.

For me , I'm a average handicapper, in the long run I lose a bit more than I win (hoping to change that). I won't stop because I love the game, the challange , the puzzles. Love sitting in a race book betting for 4 hours straight, love to get to the live races when I can (whether it be Saratoga/Woodbine or even Finger Lakes/Fort Erie) doesn't matter where I love it.

These suspicions are not enough to stop me, even if I am certain it is going on I will still play. For me its a hobby , a great source of entertainment. I can't put a price on that. If some day I figure out how to consistently turn a profit I would be thrilled, but thats not necessary for my enjoyment of the sport of thoroughbred racing. That is why I keep comin back.

The Security of Parimutuel wagering systems will not be upgraded so fast. No reason to do it. Players take action by complaining or shooting their mouth off. Theres no chance of a strike, as long as money is flowing into the pools there is no reason for action from racing officials.


ZAFONIC

[sq764]

Zafonic, you mention one interesting point.. That you lose over the long haul..

I find it entertaining that if I talk to 10 people at the track, 7 of them talk about how they profit each week or month or year.. Problem is, this is impossible.

Maybe its me, but I have much more respect for someone that admits they lose over the long haul, because 99.9% of handicappers do..

[dav4463]

I don't think 99.9% of handicappers lose over the long haul. Maybe 94 or 95%....what is the long haul anyway? If you hit a $15,000 superfecta on your last bet of the year and end the year with a small profit....are you a winning handicapper or just lucky? Or if you grind it out all year and show a small loss, are you just unlucky...just waiting for the hit to put you over the top? Even if you are losing over the long haul, most decent handicappers are just a big Pick 6 away from a profit aren't they?

[freeneasy]

i love going to the track and bett'n dem horses. everytime i make a bet i solumly sware that i expect it to win. everytime. well ok, some bets are just plain unexplainable and that because i just plain love the action. i know i aint gonna hit every bet i make but i know this, every once in a while i walk into that track and have one of thiose days where i can do no wrong. one of those days when you go into your pockek once, to make that first bet, and it just so happens to turn out to be that for the rest of the day that that was the last time you had to go back into your pocket to pull out another bet.
i think, at least i think i think, that the reason i keep going back to the track is cause i love it all, all of it, everythin. babaloooo:D

[Storm Cadet]

I use racing as a hobby...have you EVER had to sit and wait 3 hours to get a golf tee time on Long Island, then play a 5-6 hour round behind some crap players...you want to spoil a weekend day???

With racing, you can get up, buy the form, relax, do some handicapping and have a fun day outside and be home, light the grill and be cooking some steaks on the deck BEFORE those golf nuts are back from playing their agonizing round.

I won't hit the courses on Long Island again...but we'll do Belmont time after time!!!:D :D :D

[Richard]

sq764,
In relation to the comment concerning rude treatment at casinos i look at it this way.If a person is having a great run at the 21 table,that person can be(and often is)asked to leave.Now,how often is a person asked to leave the track for having a winning day?I've never heard of the latter but no doubt there's people on this board that know many,many things I do not.

[TG44]

The tracks are in trouble (despite the presumption of the 'Seabiscuit effect'_)

The reality is that handicapping is very enjoyable and the wide array of factors to consider and different approaches you can apply make it a lasting enjoyment.

The down side is that the realities of the game for the player are terrible in contrast to sports betting on the economic front (eg the feasibility of winning money), and on the "rush" side to other casino based gaming forms.

Then of course you have the scandals, particularly the uncertainty of the post time odds, trainer stunts (i.e. racing a horse out of form to set up odds for a future race), etc.

While the wider availability of online betting has given a quick lift the only way horse racing will really thrive is if the industry changes the model -- lower the takeout to be in line with sports (4.5%) or offer fixed odds at the time of the wager

Betfair is England is shaking up the map somewhat over there, but England already has bookies instead of pari-mutuel and bookies can be beaten.

My story mirrors a lot of people: the effort I put in on horse racing gives me a fraction of the return I see in sports betting. I have a very comfortable edge betting on football and baseball and a decent edge on basketball. With the stability of the offshore casinos (if you know your way around) it's frankly easy money.

So to answer the question, we come back because handicapping horse races is fun, and there is the chance to win a considerable sum with a small bet.

The truth though is fewer people are coming back, and they are betting less money (relative to the growth of other betting forms).
If the tracks made the game more fair to the player and shrank the number of tracks running per day to increase field sizes and general race quality (there's no need for 20 tracks a day, five running full fields that everyone followed would be better), then we might see a "Hong Kong" effect: full cards of full fields, HUGE pools such that late bets would have a less pronounced effect, and generally better racing with fewer acts of 'petty larceny' as Andy Beyer puts it.

You would even get better live crowds since the tracks would run less live days a year, and better economics for the track since they would only have to pay to put on the show maybe 10%-15% of the time they do now.

But, the tracks would have to take a chance and the horsemen would hate it because the smaller guys would lose their jobs (the bigger guys would love it because they would be competing for much bigger purses with much higher exposure).

So it will never happen.

Do any of the people here bet on sports? My guess is the diehard horseplayers don't or they would have found that handicapping sports is as if not more enjoyable, and offers a much better chance to win with more confidence that shenanigans are not involved.

[TG44]

one more thing I forgot to add: the big players are already moving their betting to places they can get rebates: top ones I've heard about get back 8-10% of their wagers!

That turns a break even bet into a +10% ROI...

Think about if you were getting back 15% if the takeout (and breakage) was lowered to mimic sports...

[MarylandPaul@HSH]

Originally posted by TG44

Do any of the people here bet on sports?

TG, any recommendations for a football wagering outlet? I'll toss a few recreational dollars into the NFL from time to time..

MP

[TG44]

MarylandPaul, there are lots of choices, and it depends a bit on your style. Some places give good sign-up bonuses, other pride themselves on lower vig, biggest bet sizes, etc

Pinnacle has lower than normal vigorish.
Grande takes big bets
WWTS, WSEX are the oldtimers
Rio
Olympic...

generally it's good to have several so you can get the most advantageous line. If you're strictly recreational I wouldn't worry about it much. Go with one that gives you a good bonus maybe.

you might want to check out theRX.com or one of the other so called offshore 'monitors'