What is the best kept horseracing software secret on the market?

[LRH4]

Answer: CompuTrak (CT) developed by Rube Boxer, owner of Revelation Software Technologies.

Like most of you, I’ve tried all the big name software packages with mixed results and then back in 2006 I stumbled upon CT - bingo. I used the software on and off and then in December of 2006, I hit the Pick 4 at Hollywood Park for 15k and then I became much more interested in CT.
A few years later I decided to get serious and completely studied and read all the CT documentation and actually spoke to Rube (great guy) a few times. The software is based on engineering principles and has interesting angles that other software packages don’t have. I then decided to start competing competitively and kept accurate records.

Last year was my first year of competitive handicapping. I participated in 11 contests and won the TVG contest on October 3, 2009 beating 2,325 other players and qualified for the 2010 NTRA/DRF contest in Vegas.

This year, I’ve participated in 27 contests, winning one, placing in the top 10 multiple times and so far winning $6,545. I’ve been averaging coming in the top 26% of all contests. I’ve qualified (again) for the NTRA/DRF contest in 2011 and qualified for 2 seats in the 2011 Horse Players World Series contest, also in Vegas (see below links….My name is Mr. Lindsay R. Hurst IV)

2011 NTRA/DRF Championship (see March 27 date)
http://www1.drf.com/nhc/2010/qualifiers.html

2011 Horse Player World Series (see under Qualifying Site winners....
2 spots - 1 under Horseplayersqualify.com and 1 under Xpressbet)
http://www.orleanscasino.com/gaming/race-and-sports-book/horse-player-world-series

I’m not claiming that CT just gives you the winners as you’ll need to work at it, but once you get past the learning curve, you’ll be able to handicap any race in about 90 seconds….really

I’m happy to answer any questions you might have about CT or competitive handicapping.

Hope this post helps everyone to win at the track!

LRH4

[mmdorn]

Hi,

My name is Mike Dorn. I have Computrak and have been trying to figure out how to use it properly for a long time. I have never been able to master it, and would appreciate any help you could give me.

Thanks,

Mike

[sammy the sage]

Talk about BLATANT abuse of advertizing rules.. :lol:

[JimG]

Talk about BLATANT abuse of advertizing rules.. :lol:

Better get your facts straight or you come off sounding like a troll.

A legitimate customer extolling the virtues of software that he has no commercial interest, is not abuse of any advertising rules.

This forum was established to discuss the good and bad of various software programs.

Besides, Rube Boxer, the owner of Computrak, is an authorized advertiser at Pace Advantage.

[Light]

If its the best kept secret,why are you flaunting it?
First lifetime post is in the form of a shill.
Pie in the Sky proxy advertisement too transparent.Try again.

[PaceAdvantage]

Better get your facts straight or you come off sounding like a troll.

A legitimate customer extolling the virtues of software that he has no commercial interest, is not abuse of any advertising rules.

This forum was established to discuss the good and bad of various software programs.

Besides, Rube Boxer, the owner of Computrak, is an authorized advertiser at Pace Advantage.True on both counts, although the first count is certainly open to interpretation by the moderators.

Sometimes it's a legitimate customer, and sometimes it's unauthorized advertising...tough to tell the difference many times...

[JimG]

True on both counts, although the first count is certainly open to interpretation by the moderators.

Sometimes it's a legitimate customer, and sometimes it's unauthorized advertising...tough to tell the difference many times...

I know PA. I probably should have kept my nose out of it. I recognized his name from various contests I have participated in so I felt he is a legit user. In hindsight, it is really none of my business and best left up to you and the moderators here to decide.

Jim

[PaceAdvantage]

I know PA. I probably should have kept my nose out of it. I recognized his name from various contests I have participated in so I felt he is a legit user. In hindsight, it is really none of my business and best left up to you and the moderators here to decide.

JimNo, it is your business. This forum wouldn't be possibly without everyone's participation, so you certainly have the right to comment.

And the fact that the original poster provided his name certainly adds to his credibility, which in this case is genuine.

[46zilzal]

HTR and Thorograph users win the most contests...Well established fact

[Handiman]

46,

Is that because they are used by more handicappers than the other programs available, or do more handicappers use those two softwares because they perform better in the contest arena than others do?

Quick note to Handi followers. I have not done any programming or updates because I have been very sick on and off for about 6 months now. Don't know when I will get back in the groove. I am in fact very sick for the 4th day in a row as I write this. Sore throat and bad head cold.

Back to thread, I have an engineering paper on horse racing authored by Rubin Boxer. I believe it is the guts to Computrack. It's very interesting, but super technical. I have looked at it a couple of times but never really ran all the calculations. Maybe when I get healthier, I'll look closer.

Handi:)

[jk3521]

LRH4,
May I ask, which version of Computrack have you been using?

[Partsnut]

You have to respect Lindsay's accomplishments. As Jim G. and the administrator stated, he has the credentials and the credibility.
The fact that he is willing to tell us how he succeeded and which software product he used has to be admired. I see no harm in his post.

Lindsay, keep up the good work.:)

[JustRalph]

What does LRH4 stand for?

[JimG]

What does LRH4 stand for?

Hi Ralph,

I believe that would be Lindsay R Hurst IV

Jim

[JustRalph]

Thanks Jim.........nice to see you posting......... :ThmbUp:

[LRH4]

Hey Mike....happy to help

If you want to send me your email, I can give you more details

LRH4

[LRH4]

Better get your facts straight or you come off sounding like a troll.

A legitimate customer extolling the virtues of software that he has no commercial interest, is not abuse of any advertising rules.

This forum was established to discuss the good and bad of various software programs.

Besides, Rube Boxer, the owner of Computrak, is an authorized advertiser at Pace Advantage.

Thanks Jim....I thought this section of the forum allows folks to talk about software

[PaceAdvantage]

Thanks Jim....I thought this section of the forum allows folks to talk about softwareYou thought correctly.

[LRH4]

Talk about BLATANT abuse of advertizing rules.. :lol:

Hey Sammy.....can you better articulate what I abused?

I've gone so far as to list my full name and everything I mentioned is 100% true. I have absolutely no finanacial connections with Rube or CT.

I guess I'm surpised about the negative energy about this post.....just trying to help folks

LRH4

[PaceAdvantage]

Hey Sammy.....can you better articulate what I abused?

I've gone so far as to list my full name and everything I mentioned is 100% true. I have absolutely no finanacial connections with Rube or CT.

I guess I'm surpised about the negative energy about this post.....just trying to help folks

LRH4We've already been through all of this...sammy was mistaken in this instance, although his intentions were pure. There are plenty of vendors out there who would love to advertise for free here, and some do get away with it every now and then...

But it's already been pointed out that you have no connection with the company other than a satisfied user, and the company is already an authorized advertiser here anyway....

No harm, no foul...

[LRH4]

If its the best kept secret,why are you flaunting it?
First lifetime post is in the form of a shill.
Pie in the Sky proxy advertisement too transparent.Try again.

Hey Light...

How is this a shill?

Why am I flaunting this?.....because it's a solid product which I dont think is very well known. If you were to try the software, that doesn't mean you will win....like any tool, you have to work at it. If you're willing to put the time and energy into it, you can be a winner with CT.

Just because I give you a high end set of golf clubs, does not mean you will ever win a golf tournament

The only thing Light is correct about is that this is my first time post and I find it sad that some quickly jump to the dark side and assume I'm scamming everyone....oh well....

LRH4

[LRH4]

LRH4,
May I ask, which version of Computrack have you been using?

Sure....2006 Version 4.3.01

[LRH4]

You have to respect Lindsay's accomplishments. As Jim G. and the administrator stated, he has the credentials and the credibility.
The fact that he is willing to tell us how he succeeded and which software product he used has to be admired. I see no harm in his post.

Lindsay, keep up the good work.:)

Thanks Partsnut....

I have no hidden agenda....I'm just a 50 year old software professional whose passion is horses and through CT have had great success. If I can help others to do the same, why not. I really thought by adding the links to the qualifer's list with my name it would add credibility. While I'm not mad, I just struggle to understand why some just like to pile on and assume I'm up to something.....I'm not forcing anyone to use CT

LRH4







Take care.....LRH4

[LRH4]

Hi Ralph,

I believe that would be Lindsay R Hurst IV

Jim

Hey guys....yes that is correct:

Lindsay R. Hurst IV

My Dad, Lindsay R. Hurst III, is also a competive handicapper using CT

Generations ago, "Lindsay" was a male's name but overtime we've all seen that change so often I will put "Mr." in front of my name so folks know

LRH4

[Laron]

what are the main thing your doing with ti make it work so well

[The Judge]

shouldn't there be more ties?

Although I do believe there are some excellent, very good, good, not so good handicapping programs it's going to take a lot more to win including some racing luck. Your horse didn't rare up at the start,didn't get blocked in the turn, it was a fair pace not 48 and change to the 1/4, etc etc.

If you are winning money good for you, stick with it.

[Vinnie]

Hey Mike....happy to help

If you want to send me your email, I can give you more details

LRH4

Mr. Hurst, I sent you a PM.

Have a terrific evening.

[TheFlagIsUp]

Whatever happened to reading a racing form and watching replays. If you are buying someone else's ideas on handicapping, why not just have them bet for you too?

[raybo]

Whatever happened to reading a racing form and watching replays. If you are buying someone else's ideas on handicapping, why not just have them bet for you too?

Of course, some handicappers still do as you suggest. However, some of us don't want to spend hours pouring over the Racing Form, marking it up, formulating our wagers including ticket structures, only to find that we wasted all that time and energy by making a simple mistake or missing something in the Form.

And then you have the increasing costs of the DRF, the flaky quality of replays, etc., etc..

[Vinnie]

Whatever happened to reading a racing form and watching replays. If you are buying someone else's ideas on handicapping, why not just have them bet for you too?

If you are someone that uses software in your daily handicapping, such as merely for example HSH, or HTR, or any other number of excellent products that are out there for the handicapper. Even if you generally use this software very effectively in your handicapping, more often than not you will find that someone (if they are willing to share) could be using this software in an even better more effective manner than your yourself. Why not do what you can to glean any information that you can which would help to put you more over the top in becoming even a more consistent winning player? :) It seems pretty reasonable and simple to me.

[Trotman]

LRH4 congrats on your success and when it comes to handicapping software to each his own and I find it refreshing to hear each capper describe how the software works for he or she. I have looked at probably every piece that came down the pipe and still today after 40 years am still a pen and form guy which works for me. I am also a win and exacta player and I find that I throw races out that in my mind are unplayable where the software gives me a pick which goes against the grain for me. Either it has to be all advantage or edge for me or no play. Now sure it has it's drawbacks that I may go days without a play, but that's my choice what keeps me in control. I have spoken with many of the software programmers and users and voiced my opinions and they voiced theirs and that I have found was helpful to both sides as handicapping will never be a cut and dried proposition ever.
Good luck in your tournaments. :ThmbUp:

[TheFlagIsUp]

Of course, some handicappers still do as you suggest. However, some of us don't want to spend hours pouring over the Racing Form, marking it up, formulating our wagers including ticket structures, only to find that we wasted all that time and energy by making a simple mistake or missing something in the Form.

And then you have the increasing costs of the DRF, the flaky quality of replays, etc., etc..

I didn't mean to sound like a smart arse, I just don't get it is all. Not that my methods are anything to brag about... :D

[TheFlagIsUp]

If you are someone that uses software in your daily handicapping, such as merely for example HSH, or HTR, or any other number of excellent products that are out there for the handicapper. Even if you generally use this software very effectively in your handicapping, more often than not you will find that someone (if they are willing to share) could be using this software in an even better more effective manner than your yourself. Why not do what you can to glean any information that you can which would help to put you more over the top in becoming even a more consistent winning player? :) It seems pretty reasonable and simple to me.

I appreciate the response and apologize if I sounded like a smart arse....I just wonder what the software provides that isn't known either from watching races and reading the form. i mean isn't any program just computing the same data we all have access to in a different way? it's just lost on me is all.

[JustRalph]

I appreciate the response and apologize if I sounded like a smart arse....I just wonder what the software provides that isn't known either from watching races and reading the form. i mean isn't any program just computing the same data we all have access to in a different way? it's just lost on me is all.

You obviously haven't used any decent software. I suggest you try some

[LRH4]

Mr. Hurst, I sent you a PM.

Have a terrific evening.

Hey Vinnie....

Thanks for your email....Please give me a few days to get back with you. I've gotten more emails than I expected but I want to make sure I give complete answers.....

Take care.....LRH4

[LRH4]

what are the main thing your doing with ti make it work so well

Hey Laron.....

I'll answer this question assuming you know the CT terminology.
For me, here are the key aspects (no particular order):

1.) OL
2.) RT
3.) BT
4.) RES for sprint races
5.) RF for route turf races (my favorite)
6.) FT
7.) Class

Feel free to drop me a line if you want more information.

LRH4

[LRH4]

shouldn't there be more ties?

Although I do believe there are some excellent, very good, good, not so good handicapping programs it's going to take a lot more to win including some racing luck. Your horse didn't rare up at the start,didn't get blocked in the turn, it was a fair pace not 48 and change to the 1/4, etc etc.

If you are winning money good for you, stick with it.

100% agree with you Judge

A software program does not make you money or win you tournaments, it's ultimately how the user processes the data and makes decisions. There are times when I do not use the suggested CT horse and instead look at different angles CT provides and I find a score. Trust me, there are days when I completely blank and have no understanding why, so you definitely need racing luck. Having a solid handicapping tool is just one aspect of this game as there is a lot of "art" to it and sometimes just a gut feeling.

LRH4

[LRH4]

Whatever happened to reading a racing form and watching replays. If you are buying someone else's ideas on handicapping, why not just have them bet for you too?

Hey TheFlagIsUp....

If Rube is willing to place my bets for me, that would be great

LRH4

[LRH4]

LRH4 congrats on your success and when it comes to handicapping software to each his own and I find it refreshing to hear each capper describe how the software works for he or she. I have looked at probably every piece that came down the pipe and still today after 40 years am still a pen and form guy which works for me. I am also a win and exacta player and I find that I throw races out that in my mind are unplayable where the software gives me a pick which goes against the grain for me. Either it has to be all advantage or edge for me or no play. Now sure it has it's drawbacks that I may go days without a play, but that's my choice what keeps me in control. I have spoken with many of the software programmers and users and voiced my opinions and they voiced theirs and that I have found was helpful to both sides as handicapping will never be a cut and dried proposition ever.
Good luck in your tournaments. :ThmbUp:

Thanks for your thoughts Trotman

Everybody need to do what's best for them...bet of luck to you as well

Take care....LRH4

[LRH4]

I appreciate the response and apologize if I sounded like a smart arse....I just wonder what the software provides that isn't known either from watching races and reading the form. i mean isn't any program just computing the same data we all have access to in a different way? it's just lost on me is all.

Hey TheFlagIsUp....

Here's something to think about. If you're watching a race or reading a form and see that the second place horse closed hard and say lost by a length.

Would you see this horse as a stong closer?....maybe or maybe it was simply the lead horse slowed up?.....Through engineering principles, CT calculates a "horse friction" number which addresses this question.

LRH4

[Vinnie]

I appreciate the response and apologize if I sounded like a smart arse....I just wonder what the software provides that isn't known either from watching races and reading the form. i mean isn't any program just computing the same data we all have access to in a different way? it's just lost on me is all.

Hello TheFlagIsUp:

I hope that I didn't come off as abrasive in my post. That wasn't my intention at all, believe me. :) I have always read from many folks who I consider to be quite knowledgeable on this board state something nearly to the affect that you have to always do what is within "your frame of reference" or do what is best within your own realm of understanding when handicapping, if that is what indeed works for you. Clearly, what is a good fit for one person may not be for the next. I know that there are many people out there that use software that are absolutely thrilled with the product which they currently use. I for one am very happy for these folks I mention because evidently they have found that tool that compliments the way they think or which most closely puts them in sync with the way that they view horseracing in the general sense. Honestly, I only wish that I had the time/energy to be able to watch race replays and mull over the DRF all day long. Nothing at all wrong with this method of handicapping a race. Unfortunately, I have to work (like many) more hours in a week than I care to these days. So, when I have the chance to handicap and break down a race I want to use a handicapping tool that breaks down the race for me in a way that I understand. To be honest, I have had some of the best scores I have ever had in using only one software. While, admittedly to my own detriment, it has cost me more than once when I have used several types of software simultaneously when attempting to gain an understanding of how a particular race or race type is going to develop. :) Some days you are going to scorch the track and some days still you will remain perplexed at days end by the dismal results you experienced. This is an incredibly tough game the one that we all love so much.

There are many excellent software offerings out there on the market today and I won't name any of them here. I am sure that you have heard plenty of others mention them regularly with nothing but raves (and deservedly so). Also, to be totally honest, while I have purchased more than a handful of what I consider to be excellent handicapping applications in the past, I myself am clearly at fault for never fully learning and using each one of them to their fullest potential. For this, I am the guilty party. Find the software or handicapping tool that best suits you and your playing style and learn it to its fullest potential.

All the BEST TheFlagIsUp.

[Vinnie]

Hey Vinnie....

Thanks for your email....Please give me a few days to get back with you. I've gotten more emails than I expected but I want to make sure I give complete answers.....

Take care.....LRH4

Good evening LRH4:

Thanks for writing. I am glad that you received my message. Please take your time in getting back to me. I am anxious to get a chance to chat with you. Take good care and have an excellent weekend.

[JustRalph]

I appreciate the response and apologize if I sounded like a smart arse....I just wonder what the software provides that isn't known either from watching races and reading the form. i mean isn't any program just computing the same data we all have access to in a different way? it's just lost on me is all.

See if you can get the same stuff that is in the post below, from the form and watching Vids

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=969122&postcount=26

[PaceAdvantage]

LRH4 congrats on your success and when it comes to handicapping software to each his own and I find it refreshing to hear each capper describe how the software works for he or she. I have looked at probably every piece that came down the pipe and still today after 40 years am still a pen and form guy which works for me. I am also a win and exacta player and I find that I throw races out that in my mind are unplayable where the software gives me a pick which goes against the grain for me. Either it has to be all advantage or edge for me or no play. Now sure it has it's drawbacks that I may go days without a play, but that's my choice what keeps me in control. I have spoken with many of the software programmers and users and voiced my opinions and they voiced theirs and that I have found was helpful to both sides as handicapping will never be a cut and dried proposition ever.
Good luck in your tournaments. :ThmbUp:Weren't you involved in a thread not too long ago about a certain piece of software that you had seen that impressed you...I think it might have been Ted Craven's, was it not?

[Trotman]

PA your absolutly right. I spent a day at the races with Ted Craven and his RDSS software and as a pace handicapper was impressed with what it offered and with the ease of working with it. There are soon to be upgrades and will be very interested in looking at it when completed. The details of anything regarding RDSS would be better left to Ted Craven to address. I have openly said on other threads I believe that IMO RDSS and one other I have found fit me for the pace handicapper I am and have no problem with saying this as both would be an excellent tool to handicap with.

[46zilzal]

RDSS in Speculator mode works very well.....Amazed that people use it in Validator mode

[Space Monkey]

Don't sweat the negativity Lindsay. It's the mood of the country, unfortunately. I swear, if they took an opinion poll on Santa Claus, he'd come up with a negative rating. :lol:

Thanks for your thread. I'm sure some will benefit.

[PaceAdvantage]

Don't sweat the negativity Lindsay. It's the mood of the country, unfortunately. I swear, if they took an opinion poll on Santa Claus, he'd come up with a negative rating. :lol: Ummmm...that's not the reason...and we'll leave it at that...

[LRH4]

Don't sweat the negativity Lindsay. It's the mood of the country, unfortunately. I swear, if they took an opinion poll on Santa Claus, he'd come up with a negative rating. :lol:

Thanks for your thread. I'm sure some will benefit.

Space Monkey,

Thanks for your support...

LRH4

[mabred]

I'd like to add that I have computrak and needed help
from Rube to get my software back up after a problem with my computer
and he spent all day with me and even called to make sure I got
it to work.An e-mail would have been fine.BTW
This all happened today SUNDAY.Can't beat that.When I get
windows 7 I'll get his newest upgrade that allows the program to run
on 7 and vista he told me the older one won't.If santa brings me a new
computer I'll be all set.

take care
MABRED

[trying2win]

Hmmm...thread starter has just a few posts...brags about all the alleged big payoffs with no proof....where's that grain of salt?

T2W

[Trotman]

T2W really get a life it has already been proven, all for real.
You really came late to this dance :bang:

[LRH4]

Hmmm...thread starter has just a few posts...brags about all the alleged big payoffs with no proof....where's that grain of salt?

T2W

trying2win....

Really?.....first of all I've not bragged about all my big payoffs and secondly please review my original post which includes 2 links verifying I've qualified for two of the bigger contests in North America. My intent is not to brag about me, but the software that allows me to be sucessful which is CT

Oh, by the way, review the attached link which is a contest I participated in today and placed 4th out of 95 folks
https://www.horseplayersqualify.com/ContestLeaderboard.aspx

Need more salt?

LRH4

[LRH4]

T2W really get a life it has already been proven, all for real.
You really came late to this dance :bang:

Thanks Trotman....

Also thanks for your email.....For you and all the others that have contacted me, I'm drafting a document which outlines how I approach using CT. I think it might be useful and timely to use the CT data I used today to place 4th in a contest as it will show a few different CT angles.

I'll get back with you and the others once I've completed this project.

Take care......LRH4

[jk3521]

Has anyone used the latest version of Computrak {ver. 7} ? Is it really an upgrade from version 4.3 ? And how is it better or different ? The website really doesn't go into any detail.

[Vinnie]

jk3521:

I hope that you are doing well? I might be wrong and I very well could be, but, I believe that Computrak V7 is for Windows 7, that is the Big Difference. I don't believe that the version which you allude to 4.3 will run on the Windows 7 format. You may have to ask Rube, but, that is what I have been led to believe.

[LRH4]

jk3521:

I hope that you are doing well? I might be wrong and I very well could be, but, I believe that Computrak V7 is for Windows 7, that is the Big Difference. I don't believe that the version which you allude to 4.3 will run on the Windows 7 format. You may have to ask Rube, but, that is what I have been led to believe.

jk3521/Vinnie...

Vinnie is correct as I've already checked with Rube. The newer version does not have any new features/functionalities, it just accomodates a newer operating system

LRH4

[acorn54]

Answer: CompuTrak (CT) developed by Rube Boxer, owner of Revelation Software Technologies.

Like most of you, I’ve tried all the big name software packages with mixed results and then back in 2006 I stumbled upon CT - bingo. I used the software on and off and then in December of 2006, I hit the Pick 4 at Hollywood Park for 15k and then I became much more interested in CT.
A few years later I decided to get serious and completely studied and read all the CT documentation and actually spoke to Rube (great guy) a few times. The software is based on engineering principles and has interesting angles that other software packages don’t have. I then decided to start competing competitively and kept accurate records.

Last year was my first year of competitive handicapping. I participated in 11 contests and won the TVG contest on October 3, 2009 beating 2,325 other players and qualified for the 2010 NTRA/DRF contest in Vegas.

This year, I’ve participated in 27 contests, winning one, placing in the top 10 multiple times and so far winning $6,545. I’ve been averaging coming in the top 26% of all contests. I’ve qualified (again) for the NTRA/DRF contest in 2011 and qualified for 2 seats in the 2011 Horse Players World Series contest, also in Vegas (see below links….My name is Mr. Lindsay R. Hurst IV)

2011 NTRA/DRF Championship (see March 27 date)
http://www1.drf.com/nhc/2010/qualifiers.html

2011 Horse Player World Series (see under Qualifying Site winners....
2 spots - 1 under Horseplayersqualify.com and 1 under Xpressbet)
http://www.orleanscasino.com/gaming/race-and-sports-book/horse-player-world-series

I’m not claiming that CT just gives you the winners as you’ll need to work at it, but once you get past the learning curve, you’ll be able to handicap any race in about 90 seconds….really

I’m happy to answer any questions you might have about CT or competitive handicapping.

Hope this post helps everyone to win at the track!

LRH4
i could never understand why someone that is making money in a parimutuel sytem would provide unsolicited information regarding a software or system he is using to the betting public. of what benefit is it to you to do this? please illuminate me.

[harntrox]

i could never understand why someone that is making money in a parimutuel sytem would provide unsolicited information regarding a software or system he is using to the betting public. of what benefit is it to you to do this? please illuminate me.


It is presumed that somehow, despite that sad fact the most of the industry is now mining the same data, that by luck alone bettors wont cannabilize the last remaining crumb of meager profits; having reached a point of entropy where all handicapping software is performing similarly because the data sources are identical.

When you mine the same data, you get the same results, regardless of preference: newsprint or software.

[Partsnut]

Acorn54: i could never understand why someone that is making money in a parimutuel sytem would provide unsolicited information regarding a software or system he is using to the betting public. of what benefit is it to you to do this? please illuminate me.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif

Some of us wish to share and are gratified by helping others.
Unfortunately, there are those that can never be shown anything because they know it all. Keep an open mind and learn from those that are accomplished and credible. It never hurts to listen.

[Partsnut]

harntrox: It is presumed that somehow, despite that sad fact the most of the industry is now mining the same data, that by luck alone bettors wont cannabilize the last remaining crumb of meager profits; having reached a point of entropy where all handicapping software is performing similarly because the data sources are identical.

When you mine the same data, you get the same results, regardless of preference: newsprint or software

I respectfully have to disagree. There are many good tools out there but there only very few that know or are willing to learn how to use them. I will agree that the data is more or less the same. The big difference is how the data is interpreted and applied to the software by the user.

[thoroughbred]

Has anyone used the latest version of Computrak {ver. 7} ? Is it really an upgrade from version 4.3 ? And how is it better or different ? The website really doesn't go into any detail.

Previous versions of CompuTrak do not work on 64 bit computer systems such as Windows 7 and some Vista systems.

The upgrade, CompuTrak Handicapper 7, operates with both 32 and 64 bit systems.

There is no functional difference between this upgrade and the previous CompuTrak 2006, i.e., 4.3

If you are using this previous version, there is NO NEED to upgrade.

[Vinnie]

Acorn54:
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif

Some of us wish to share and are gratified by helping others.
Unfortunately, there are those that can never be shown anything because they know it all. Keep an open mind and learn from those that are accomplished and credible. It never hurts to listen.

Partsnut:

Excellent post and I hope that you are well? :) I have always been of the belief that no matter how well you think that you know something, and this can go for virtually anything, there is in all likelihood someone out there that knows how to use it better. Say a person is born with an above average level of intelligence and he or she wishes to one day become a doctor. By all means, and I stand corrected if I am wrong, but, I believe that you are molded and shaped in to how to become the best doctor that you possibly can by "other doctors".

I myself love this product (CT) and if someone like LRH4 is so willing to impart even a bit of his knowledge that in any way would assist me in using it in an even more effective way than I currently am, I say bless the man for sharing. :)

[LRH4]

i could never understand why someone that is making money in a parimutuel sytem would provide unsolicited information regarding a software or system he is using to the betting public. of what benefit is it to you to do this? please illuminate me.

Hey acorn54....

Thanks for your post.

While I appreciate your opinion, I just look at it in another way. I assume folks that take time to post/read this forum have a genuine passion for this great sport. If I can share my positive experiences and help one person better handicap and win a tournament or hit a nice Pick4, that's satisifying enough for me. There is plenty of the track's money to go around. If everyone that reads this post starts using CT tomorrow, as a collective group, we'll not change the tote board for any one race. Your comments suggest I have a big secret, if revealed would allow everyone to win - not true. CT and the other software packages are simply tools. The key is how one interprets the data and more importantly how one uses this data.

Hope this helps you understand another view point

LRH4

[LRH4]

Partsnut:

Excellent post and I hope that you are well? :) I have always been of the belief that no matter how well you think that you know something, and this can go for virtually anything, there is in all likelihood someone out there that knows how to use it better. Say a person is born with an above average level of intelligence and he or she wishes to one day become a doctor. By all means, and I stand corrected if I am wrong, but, I believe that you are molded and shaped in to how to become the best doctor that you possibly can by "other doctors".

I myself love this product (CT) and if someone like LRH4 is so willing to impart even a bit of his knowledge that in any way would assist me in using it in an even more effective way than I currently am, I say bless the man for sharing. :)

Vinnie/partsnut...

Great posts

LRH4

[harntrox]

The big difference is how the data is interpreted and applied to the software by the user.

The more people learn the software, the more the difference will dwindle.

Users with the same interface will make the same bets, eventually, if the software works and they interpret the output similarly.

Creating and tracking custom stats with a data mine obviates the need of travelling down that road in the first place.

The real secret seems to be this: all the real custom data mines are working too well to be sold :cool:

[Partsnut]

Harntrox:
The more people learn the software, the more the difference will dwindle.

Users with the same interface will make the same bets, eventually, if the software works and they interpret the output similarly.

Creating and tracking custom stats with a data mine obviates the need of travelling down that road in the first place.

The real secret seems to be this: all the real custom data mines are working too well to be sold :cool:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif

Because there is such a diversity of users, their learning aptitudes and understanding of the game, their affinity and ability for the computer and those that choose not to use the multitude of horse racing applications that have and are currently being offered as well as an individuals personal preference as to which software suits his needs and not withstanding, the many tracks and race types,the preference and types of betting and judging from the current software polls that were run on this site, I would find it hard to believe that the use of one piece of software would have very much of an impact or deteriorate the betting climate and opportunities that are still plentiful.

Because some talented people choose to develop their own home grown software does not mean it is any better or worse then what the commercial software developers offer. I believe for the most part, that it is the intent of the commercial developer is to provide a product that works and produce the best software they can. Some can and some can't. Like everything else in this world, some are more gifted and talented then others.

[Trotman]

Partsnut I have to agree with your posts on this thread.
It must be like fine wine we are getting better with age :ThmbUp:

[Partsnut]

Trotman: Partsnut I have to agree with your posts on this thread.
It must be like fine wine we are getting better with age

I thank you for your kind words. I'm glad we are finally agreeing.
I believe we are both getting better, smarter and more congenial with age.

Tomorrow, is my 71st birthday. It's time to put all my hostilities behind me and just enjoy the many things this site has to offer. There are lot's of good people
here. I believe you are one of those people. :ThmbUp: Thanks again.

[Nets]

Trotman:

I thank you for your kind words. I'm glad we are finally agreeing.
I believe we are both getting better, smarter and more congenial with age.

Tomorrow, is my 71st birthday. It's time to put all my hostilities behind me and just enjoy the many things this site has to offer. There are lot's of good people
here. I believe you are one of those people. :ThmbUp: Thanks again.

Well Happy Birthday in advance!

[Partsnut]

Nets: Well Happy Birthday in advance!

Thanks, your good wishes are very much appreciated.
Your a very strong player and competitor.

[Vinnie]

Tomorrow, is my 71st birthday.

Partsnut:

Happy Birthday in advance of tomorrow. :) May you have a wonderful Birthday and I hope that you enjoy many many more.

All the BEST!

[Trotman]

Partsnut you have six on me tomorrow and just in case I forget or heaven forbid don't see another light of day HAPPY :7: :1: ST and many more. Thanks for the compliment.

[Partsnut]

Vinnie: :
Trotman:

Partsnut: you have six on me tomorrow and just in case I forget or heaven forbid don't see another light of day HAPPY :7: :1: ST and many more. Thanks for the compliment.

Partsnut: Happy Birthday in advance of tomorrow. :) May you have a wonderful Birthday and I hope that you enjoy many many more.

All the BEST!

Vinnie and Trotman,, I really appreciate your well wishes.
Good friends and good health is what it's all about.
You make me feel like a rich man today. :ThmbUp:

[Handiman]

P-nut

This is the longest run on sentence I have ever read:
"Because there is such a diversity of users, their learning aptitudes and understanding of the game, their affinity and ability for the computer and those that choose not to use the multitude of horse racing applications that have and are currently being offered as well as an individuals personal preference as to which software suits his needs and not withstanding, the many tracks and race types,the preference and types of betting and judging from the current software polls that were run on this site, I would find it hard to believe that the use of one piece of software would have very much of an impact or deteriorate the betting climate and opportunities that are still plentiful." LOL.....I made it through it without taking a breath, but wasn't easy.

You deserve a Giagantic Happy Birthday! 71 is just getting started these days. Hope you have a ton more all in good health!

Handi:)

[Partsnut]

Hi Handi,

I hope you are feeling better.
You're right :) I get a little long winded.

I appreciate your kind Thoughts and wishes.
You're one of the good guys and I wish you the best as well.

[REBel]

I've always thought everybody at this site were in their 40's or 50's. I always felt like I was too old to participate in the discussions, but it looks like there are several of us born in 1939 or before.

Have a great day!!!

:)

[Partsnut]

Rebel:

I've always thought everybody at this site were in their 40's or 50's. I always felt like I was too old to participate in the discussions, but it looks like there are several of us born in 1939 or before.

Have a great day!!!




Thanks for the Bday wishes.
You know what they say, an old violin plays the best music.
Age is just a number but whose counting?:)
I don't have the time to grow old.:D

[harntrox]

...I would find it hard to believe that the use of one piece of software would have very much of an impact or deteriorate the betting climate and opportunities that are still plentiful...

With respect (to elders :liar: ) ,
I think you are reading between the lines a but too much, and perhaps confusing yourself about the issue at hand. ('the software' you refer to is a singular noun, not a conspiracy) So, I agree: All the neural nets in the world haven't changed the toteboard *for the public* one cent. All it takes is dumb money and everyone has plentiful opportunities.

The only people who take the hit are the ones that make the falsely perceived non-obvious bet, using the *exact* same software. Similar to everyone betting the beyer.

I remember several stories of DOS programs back in the day that worked like magic for a while...and then ppl bought them ... and then they dinnt anymore ... and the companies went away. The software worked too well *for those that used it*, and the roi flattened, because for whatever reason, enough people made the same bets with the same tool. One was called F- something (yeah real descriptive) and was around in the mid to late 70's. I wouldnt be too surprised if it used primarily Beyers not long after they came out.

When you buy a commercial software package, you are inevitably drawn toward direct competition with the other users of that exact software, but only if you are using the same data inputs . Conversely ,when you use custom data (not just software, though it may help), this is the exception, not the rule.

Its the construction of the data mine inputs itself that is the issue.
We can agree to disagree on permutations, but my point is :
Mining the same data is just a bad idea.
My opinion: this is the best kept secret in horse racing.

[dartman51]

HAPPY B-DAY PARTSNUT!!!:jump::jump:
Here's hoping you enjoy many more. I hope you make a big score today to celebrate. :ThmbUp::)

[Partsnut]

Dartman51: HAPPY B-DAY PARTSNUT!!!:jump::jump:
Here's hoping you enjoy many more. I hope you make a big score today to celebrate. :ThmbUp::)

Thanks so much for the birthday wishes.

I did just that at Belmont today with the Zambuto Handicapper.. I didn't use Compu Trak but Rube made every effort to try and furnish me with a 7 day demo but it would not work on my XP computer. You can install his demo on any computer just one time. I didn't have an option to install the program on my Vista Laptop because there never was a demo for Vista.

Rube is a great guy and possibly his software has merit. Unfortunately, I'll probably never find out.

[Partsnut]

Harntox: When you buy a commercial software package, you are inevitably drawn toward direct competition with the other users of that exact software, but only if you are using the same data inputs . Conversely ,when you use custom data (not just software, though it may help), this is the exception, not the rule.

Its the construction of the data mine inputs itself that is the issue.
We can agree to disagree on permutations, but my point is :
Mining the same data is just a bad idea.
My opinion: this is the best kept secret in horse racing.

You make some very points and for the most part I'm in agreement with you.
A large percentage of the crowd will fall on the same contenders and this is a good thing. My approach and the tools that I use allow me to make alternate decisions based on my own interpretation of a horses probability of winning.
I was never an advocate of betting on the figure horse with the exception of using them in specific contest situations and mixing my selections depending on how I interpret the variables of a given race.
Confusion will never be an option for me as long as I'm above ground.:D
I never follow the crowd and I'm an individualist that is not afraid and very capable of making a self informed decision. There are not too many winners at this game but I can assure you that I'm one of the few. I've proven that on many occasions.

[Partsnut]

Looking back at all the posts on this site for CompuTrak, I did notice there were some complaints (years ago) on the demo that was offered for this software. They said the installation process was long and tedious. Some gave up an said it was impossible. I also noticed that a major compaint from some very astute board members was that they opposed the pay up front policy with no questions asked if you were not satisfied.
Not many want to go through the possible red tape and ordeal of returning a product. This holds true more so today then before.

I have the utmost respect and personally like Rube Boxer. He's a gentleman.
However, I'm in total agreement with the consensus and I personally would require at least a 10 day demo before I bought the software. I'd have to prove to myself that the software is as good as others say it is.

I'm reasonably sure the product is decent and Lindsay Hurst, who started the thread is very accomplished and credible. I've looked at his emails and they made lots of sense.

I don't want to put a strain on Rube but I think a fully functional demo that would work on all operating systems, whether it was installed and removed at any point in time on one's computer would benefit him. This would help the user determine if the software was something they thought was good enough to purchase and make an informed decision. (before the fact)

[REBel]

Rube's website now offers a 45 day, no questions asked, return policy. If you do not like the software, simply inform Rube within the 45 day tryout period for a refund.

I am currently trying the product out.

REBel

[thoroughbred]

Looking back at all the posts on this site for CompuTrak, I did notice there were some complaints (years ago) on the demo that was offered for this software. They said the installation process was long and tedious. Some gave up an said it was impossible. I also noticed that a major compaint from some very astute board members was that they opposed the pay up front policy with no questions asked if you were not satisfied.
Not many want to go through the possible red tape and ordeal of returning a product. This holds true more so today then before.

I have the utmost respect and personally like Rube Boxer. He's a gentleman.
However, I'm in total agreement with the consensus and I personally would require at least a 10 day demo before I bought the software. I'd have to prove to myself that the software is as good as others say it is.

I'm reasonably sure the product is decent and Lindsay Hurst, who started the thread is very accomplished and credible. I've looked at his emails and they made lots of sense.

I don't want to put a strain on Rube but I think a fully functional demo that would work on all operating systems, whether it was installed and removed at any point in time on one's computer would benefit him. This would help the user determine if the software was something they thought was good enough to purchase and make an informed decision. (before the fact)


Partsnut,

1.- When we, previously, offered a demo version, the installation, just as the present full version installation is, was really quite simple.

2.-That old demo version was only valid for 7 days. As we explained in private email, when the latest version, CompuTrak Handicapper 7 was created we thought it would be win/win to eliminate the demo, which only provided the 7 days of full use, and to increase the solid money back guarantee to 45 days. This allowed a user more time to test the program, and if it suited him, there was no need for any extra actions on his part, since he already would have the full program.

3.- I appreciate the gracious words you said about me, and the program, and I believe my record of being reliable is well established over a decade of making various versions of the program available, so I don't believe there should be any hesitation in utilizing the 45 day money back guarantee.

4.- Obtaining a refund is trivial; one just needs to request it from us, and then Pay Pal, or RegSoft, whichever one is applicable, processes the refund promptly. We do ask that the user try it for at least 30 days so that he truly has had the opportunity to put the program through its paces.

[appistappis]

being a older computer ignorant fool, what does the data cost?????

Like the guy said earlier, I buy a form everyday and pour through it.

[Vinnie]

If you use the BRIS file they are currently only $1.00 for each track that you download for a specific race date. :)

[llegend39]

Rube's website now offers a 45 day, no questions asked, return policy. If you do not like the software, simply inform Rube within the 45 day tryout period for a refund.

I am currently trying the product out.

REBel

They dont honor it if you tried the previous 7 day trial version.

[John]

Very interesting Guys. Good link, Godd post !!!
:) :) :)

[LRH4]

Very interesting Guys. Good link, Godd post !!!
:) :) :)

Hi all...

Thanks for all the CT interest via the emails I've received. I'm more than happy to share my experiences with CT to anyone who has an interest - just let me know. Some have asked how I'm doing this year with various handicapping contests so I thought I would post my results - the good, bad and ugly (see attached)

Take care...

LRH4

[thoroughbred]

They dont honor it if you tried the previous 7 day trial version.
LLegend 39.

Not so.

[LRH4]

LLegend 39.

Not so.

Come on guys....Rube is more than accommodating relative to anyone who has an interest in testing CT. I suggest that folks contact Rube directly, if they have any questions/issues.

LRH4

[deathandgravity]

CompuTrak Picks for Oct 8, 2010, at KEE.

Race Contenders (ProgNum /Name)

1 7 /SECE
2 3 /MUD
3 5 /CALE
4 <NONE>
5 4 /NATI
6 4 /LITT
7 5 /HIGH 7 /PARA
8 <NONE>
9 4 /WOND
10 1 /SUCH

hypothetical $2 WP on Selections:
Wager: $36.00
Return: $68.40

Profit: $32.40

[LRH4]

CompuTrak Picks for Oct 8, 2010, at KEE.

Race Contenders (ProgNum /Name)

1 7 /SECE
2 3 /MUD
3 5 /CALE
4 <NONE>
5 4 /NATI
6 4 /LITT
7 5 /HIGH 7 /PARA
8 <NONE>
9 4 /WOND
10 1 /SUCH

hypothetical $2 WP on Selections:
Wager: $36.00
Return: $68.40

Profit: $32.40

Hey deathandgravity..

Thanks for the post.

Just wanted to clarify that in your post you listed CT's top picks which is fine but I don't recommend always playing the top picks - that's were the art comes in.

While CT'd picks did well, here is what I saw:
1.) 7 - paid 7.20/3.60
2.) 6 - paid 6.40/3.40 (I liked the 6 as it had the BT by a lot)
3.) 5 - paid 4.20/2.80 (Best BT/RT)
4.) 5 - came in 2nd paid - 7.80 (Best BT/FT)
5.) 4 - lost....not sure how the 2 won
6.) 4 - lost
7.) 7 - paid 4.20/2.80
8.) 3 - paid 15.20/7.00...I liked the 3/4 with BT/RT..but the 3 was a bigger class drop
9.) No bet - not enough CT data
10.) 1 - paid 23.60/10.40

[LRH4]

Hey deathandgravity..

Thanks for the post.

Just wanted to clarify that in your post you listed CT's top picks which is fine but I don't recommend always playing the top picks - that's were the art comes in.

While CT'd picks did well, here is what I saw:
1.) 7 - paid 7.20/3.60
2.) 6 - paid 6.40/3.40 (I liked the 6 as it had the BT by a lot)
3.) 5 - paid 4.20/2.80 (Best BT/RT)
4.) 5 - came in 2nd paid - 7.80 (Best BT/FT)
5.) 4 - lost....not sure how the 2 won
6.) 4 - lost
7.) 7 - paid 4.20/2.80
8.) 3 - paid 15.20/7.00...I liked the 3/4 with BT/RT..but the 3 was a bigger class drop
9.) No bet - not enough CT data
10.) 1 - paid 23.60/10.40

Correction...A person caught an important error in my last post.
In race 2, the 6 horse had the best RT not BT...also there was a nice class drop

Thanks....LRH4

[llegend39]

LLegend 39.

Not so.


Well I was told that via an email from you.!

[Partsnut]

llegend39Quote:
Originally Posted by thoroughbred
LLegend 39.

Not so.

Well I was told that via an email from you.!


I can only speak from my own experience with Rube and his software and tell you that Rube is a gentleman and will back up his software. He stands by his word.

[keith70]

LRH4, I have sent you a private message and an email but have not heard anything back. Would like to get a hold of you about Computrack and I am located in VA also.

[keith70]

I guess LRH4 has vanished....

[REBel]

I heard from him last week and he's been very busy. He competed in the NTRA contest Friday and Saturday and I suspect he will be flying home today. We'll probably get details shortly.

The leaderboard can be seen at ntra.com. He did quite well.

[PICSIX]

Partsnut:

Excellent post and I hope that you are well? :) I have always been of the belief that no matter how well you think that you know something, and this can go for virtually anything, there is in all likelihood someone out there that knows how to use it better. Say a person is born with an above average level of intelligence and he or she wishes to one day become a doctor. By all means, and I stand corrected if I am wrong, but, I believe that you are molded and shaped in to how to become the best doctor that you possibly can by "other doctors".

I myself love this product (CT) and if someone like LRH4 is so willing to impart even a bit of his knowledge that in any way would assist me in using it in an even more effective way than I currently am, I say bless the man for sharing. :)

I agree 100%. You want to be taught by a teacher that is also successful in practice (mentor), not a teacher whom only teaches.

Mike

[LRH4]

LRH4, I have sent you a private message and an email but have not heard anything back. Would like to get a hold of you about Computrack and I am located in VA also.

Hey keith70 and others...

Sorry about the delay as I've had lots going on in my personal life but will get back with you soon. As of late, I've been busy preparing for recent contests. I have a group of fellow CT users who I ocassionally send emails to in the spirit of giving them my experiences with CT. Below is an email I just sent out tonight:

Hi All....

Thanks for those who have sent emails asking how I faired in the NHC (DRF/NTRA) contest this weekend at Red Rock Hotel in Vegas.

302 fellow horseplayers tried for the 1st place 500k. Given that this year was my second year competing, I felt a bit more calm/confident and observed a bit more.

Here's what I learned:
1.) CT still rocks.......I came in 53 out of 302...close, but no payday as $ only goes to the top 30 - I needed another 20 bucks or so http://www.ntra.com/leaderboard/nhcxi/

2.) The top 2 handicapping software products appeared to be HTR and Thoroughgraph (sp?)

3.) CT Tip - Pay very close attention when the top "FT" is 200+ over the next closest horse. I caught "Tackleberry" (25 to 1) in the Gulfstream Sunshine Million Classic. Tackleberry had a 482 FT, almost 300 more than the next choice!!!!!!!

4.) The NHC players seem to fall into 3 categories: 1.) Professional Handicappers, 2.) Big mouth, classless Handicappers who like to brag and 3.) Handicappers who just got lucky to qualify

5.) There are cheaters - Amongst the 302 players, there are about 10 married couples - really?....I sat close to a #2 Handicapper (see above) who worked with his wife each race picking different horses in races to better their odds as any money won flows to the same household. In this case, the guy did finish in the top 30. I considered talking to a NTRA official, but the guy is a very well know player so I decided just to keep my mouth shut - for now

Okay....I'm staying in Vegas for the Superbowl and then heading back to Virginia for a couple of weeks then back to Vegas to play in the World Series of Handicapping at the Orleans

Hope all are well....take care

Lindsay
(LRH4)

[Roger]

What is FT? Not on my version. I have V4.1.2.

Thank's for your contribution.
Roger. :confused:

[Roger]

Sorry Lindsay,

The "FT" was hidden! Had to slide the mouse to expand! Thank's,

Roger,

[Dave Schwartz]

5.) There are cheaters - Amongst the 302 players, there are about 10 married couples - really?....I sat close to a #2 Handicapper (see above) who worked with his wife each race picking different horses in races to better their odds as any money won flows to the same household. In this case, the guy did finish in the top 30. I considered talking to a NTRA official, but the guy is a very well know player so I decided just to keep my mouth shut - for now

Why is that cheating?

I do not understand.

[dartman51]

Why is that cheating?

I do not understand.

I don't know about cheating. Obviously there are no rules against it. But certainly would be unethical. Basically the married couples are getting 2 selections pr race, while others are only getting one. I would have the same problem if 2 friends teamed up to split the pot if they won, if they were allowed to collaborate with one another to get 2 selections in each race. The married couples should be made to sit apart from one another. I'm sure they still might get 2 selections in some races, but surely some would be the same.

JMHO :ThmbUp:

[Dave Schwartz]

I was under the impression that many people had multiple entries in contests. Is that not true? Or is it different in THIS contest?

[JimG]

5.) There are cheaters - Amongst the 302 players, there are about 10 married couples - really?....I sat close to a #2 Handicapper (see above) who worked with his wife each race picking different horses in races to better their odds as any money won flows to the same household. In this case, the guy did finish in the top 30. I considered talking to a NTRA official, but the guy is a very well know player so I decided just to keep my mouth shut - for now

(LRH4)

You were wise to keep your mouth shut as that is well within the rules. In fact, last year a guy had about 8 entries (beards) he was managing amongst people who had "qualified" that would not know a horse's head from his a$$. He did not win nor even finish in the top ten with any of those entries.

Dave - There are many people partnering at the NHC and have been since its inception. Sometimes the other person is in the contest and sometimes not. One entry still has to accumulate the most money to win/cash in the contest and as long as that is the criteria, I have no problem with it.

[LRH4]

I was under the impression that many people had multiple entries in contests. Is that not true? Or is it different in THIS contest?

Hey Dave....

Dartman51 said it best....

The annual NTRA/DRF contest is an invite only contest with a max of one entry per person. The annual World Series of Handicapping allows folks who have not qualified to enter for 1,000 per entry with no limits on entries per person

LRH4

[LRH4]

...I don't know about cheating. Obviously there are no rules against it. But certainly would be unethical. Basically the married couples are getting 2 selections pr race, while others are only getting one. I would have the same problem if 2 friends teamed up to split the pot if they won, if they were allowed to collaborate with one another to get 2 selections in each race. The married couples should be made to sit apart from one another. I'm sure they still might get 2 selections in some races, but surely some would be the same.

JMHO :ThmbUp:

Hey Dartman51...

In the situation I saw, the married couple did sit apart but one visited the other and made the agreement. Here is what I heard relative to a "mandatory race" ....."how about you take the 9, I'll take the 10 and we'll hope for the best".......not cool, when you're chasing 1/2 million bucks........folks should remember that IPhones have tape recorders built in

LRH4

[LRH4]

You were wise to keep your mouth shut as that is well within the rules. In fact, last year a guy had about 8 entries (beards) he was managing amongst people who had "qualified" that would not know a horse's head from his a$$. He did not win nor even finish in the top ten with any of those entries.

Dave - There are many people partnering at the NHC and have been since its inception. Sometimes the other person is in the contest and sometimes not. One entry still has to accumulate the most money to win/cash in the contest and as long as that is the criteria, I have no problem with it.

Hey Jim....
Thanks for your post. Looking back at my post, my characterization of "cheating" is a bit strong but I think we would all agree the spirit of these contests is to handicap independently and perhaps chat with fellow horseplayers about the horses but certainly not to collude with another in an effort to win $.

Not sure I agree with you about it being allowed in the rules....

Here is an excerpt from section "Unsportmanslike Behavior" of the contest rules....."The NTRA reserves the right to disqualify any player it believes to abuse, threaten, coerce or harass any other player or any person it believes to have influenced or attempted to influence the play of other players...."

LRH4

[JimG]

Not sure I agree with you about it being allowed in the rules....

Here is an excerpt from section "Unsportmanslike Behavior" of the contest rules....."The NTRA reserves the right to disqualify any player it believes to abuse, threaten, coerce or harass any other player or any person it believes to have influenced or attempted to influence the play of other players...."

LRH4

I am sure this rule was not meant to keep a husband and wife that have both qualified from strategizing and discussing their plays during the contest. As I stated earlier, this has been happening in plain view for 12 years now.

Jim

[LRH4]

I am sure this rule was not meant to keep a husband and wife that have both qualified from strategizing and discussing their plays during the contest. As I stated earlier, this has been happening in plain view for 12 years now.

Jim

hmmm....I've been competing for only 2 years and guess I'm a bit naive but even though its been going on for 12 years, its still not right. "Those couples" have a competiive advantage over me which is not fair but more importantly not ethical in my opinion.

Thanks for your thoughts and I very well may pursue this topic

LRH4

[Dave Schwartz]

I certainly see your point of view and it is a valid one. Not sure if it would be enforceable.

LOL - I can picture Tom & Jim, partnered up but across the room from each other. There's Tom, looking like a 3rd base coach, sending signals to Jim. There's Jim, instead of betting the 2-horse, he tries to steal 2nd base.


:lol:

[tanix]

Here's a quote from the official code of ethics for the NHC Tour:

The definition of "collusion" is not meant to include, and does not in any way prohibit or call into question, the practice of husbands, wives, other family members, newcomers or friends attending and participating in contests together, including but not limited to the joint handicapping or discussion of contest races. The Code recognizes and encourages such conduct as a unique and beneficial aspect of handicapping contests and our sport, and is only concerned with instances where a player is making the final decision or otherwise controlling plays on more than the permissible number of entries.

http://www.ntra.com/content/nhctour/view/NQ==

I agree that it puts single players at a bit of a disadvantage, but you can't blame people for playing this way if the rules/code of ethics allow it.

[LRH4]

Here's a quote from the official code of ethics for the NHC Tour:


http://www.ntra.com/content/nhctour/view/NQ==

I agree that it puts single players at a bit of a disadvantage, but you can't blame people for playing this way if the rules/code of ethics allow it.

Hey Tanix......okay, maybe I'm just being a jerk but the last clause of the ethics rules seems to prohibit what I saw go on. While "bearding" is tough to monitor, it looks like the NTRA just wants the lawyers to write double speak so we will all look away - I'm not going to. What I saw was dead wrong especially from the person who did it.

Thanks for your thoughts.....LRH4

[redeye007]

I know what it's not. Just for giggles I downloaded a couple of software programs with free trials. One constantly crashed and the other was limited to 8 handicapping factors to create a score. Now I realize why 7 horses in a 12 horse field are all at 6-1 odds. there is a lot of info out there :D

[tanix]

I don't think you are being a jerk at all... I'm just saying that right now the husband/wife interaction isn't against the rules and is indeed encouraged by the code of ethics.

It's a strange situation, and probably one that doesn't have a good answer. Even if you kept relatives and/or friends apart during the contest, there's no way to keep them from conferring at night and collaborating on picks.

[LRH4]

I certainly see your point of view and it is a valid one. Not sure if it would be enforceable.

LOL - I can picture Tom & Jim, partnered up but across the room from each other. There's Tom, looking like a 3rd base coach, sending signals to Jim. There's Jim, instead of betting the 2-horse, he tries to steal 2nd base.


:lol:

Pretty funny and sad

LRH4

[LRH4]

I don't think you are being a jerk at all... I'm just saying that right now the husband/wife interaction isn't against the rules and is indeed encouraged by the code of ethics.

It's a strange situation, and probably one that doesn't have a good answer. Even if you kept relatives and/or friends apart during the contest, there's no way to keep them from conferring at night and collaborating on picks.

Tanix....thanks for your email....one final comment from me as we're getting a bit off point relative to CT software.

The last sentence of the ethics code you sent me is most important - see below. I get that husband and wifes can handicap together but when it comes down to the actual bet, this is the moment of truth and this is where skill really comes in as you need to consider the odds of a horse. I passed on many horses I really liked because the odds were 3/1 or less. You cant win a contest betting chalk or low odds. So a married couple are doing more than handicapping horses, they are colluding relative to playing the odds which is out of bounds - read the below carefully

"..... is only concerned with instances where a player is making the final decision or otherwise controlling plays on more than the permissible number of entries."

Remember....2 critical parts in contest play....handicapping and then selecting and most often they dont line up

"Handicap early and bet late"

LRH4

[dehere]

Interesting discussion and one that has been going on for years on other boards. I just have a few thoughts to add.

What happens more often than not when husbands/wives or friend/friend are working together in a handicapping contest or just when you have two entries in a handicapping contest where two entries are allowed is that you end up with a nice number of points on each entry but not enough points on either entry to actually score. Had there been only one entry being played it is certainly possible that the entrant would have put all of the top plays on the one entry and done better than spreading on multiple entries. That partially explains why the guy with eight or so entries last year failed to come close to winning or why at least one married couple this year didn't win the entire contest.

As I've heard said more than once and wholeheartedly agree with, I would much rather compete in a 250 person contest where one guy had 249 spots and I was the only other entrant in the contest than a contest where there were 249 other handicappers, each with one entry.

Finally, whoever fills out the entry ticket and submits the ticket at the window HAS made the final betting decision. It is really no different playing a horse simply because the Wizard or some other bloke says it is the horse to play in a race than it is to play a horse because your husband or wife says that you should play it.

[garyscpa]

Maybe using a computer program to handicap is cheating. I mean, the contest is supposed to be about people handicapping, not who owns the best computer program.

[LRH4]

Interesting discussion and one that has been going on for years on other boards. I just have a few thoughts to add.

What happens more often than not when husbands/wives or friend/friend are working together in a handicapping contest or just when you have two entries in a handicapping contest where two entries are allowed is that you end up with a nice number of points on each entry but not enough points on either entry to actually score. Had there been only one entry being played it is certainly possible that the entrant would have put all of the top plays on the one entry and done better than spreading on multiple entries. That partially explains why the guy with eight or so entries last year failed to come close to winning or why at least one married couple this year didn't win the entire contest.

As I've heard said more than once and wholeheartedly agree with, I would much rather compete in a 250 person contest where one guy had 249 spots and I was the only other entrant in the contest than a contest where there were 249 other handicappers, each with one entry.

Finally, whoever fills out the entry ticket and submits the ticket at the window HAS made the final betting decision. It is really no different playing a horse simply because the Wizard or some other bloke says it is the horse to play in a race than it is to play a horse because your husband or wife says that you should play it.


Hey Dehere......I get your points, but we're talking about a contest were 302 folks, who have fought hard to qualify, are chasing a lot of money.

Is it colusion (see below), if the couple purposely bet on 2 different horses in a mandatory race with the intent of one of them winning that race, with their ultimate goal of winning 500k for their household?

col·lu·sion (k-lzhn)
n.
A secret agreement between two or more parties for a fraudulent, illegal, or deceitful purpose.

LRH4

[LRH4]

Maybe using a computer program to handicap is cheating. I mean, the contest is supposed to be about people handicapping, not who owns the best computer program.

Hey garyscpa....

Interesting angle, but I view any software package as a tool. It's not simply downloading brisnet information and clicking a button and the software will give you the correct answer. The user still needs to interpret the data.

How about this for a contest......Everyone shows up and is given PP's and has a seat which they cant leave with the exception of restroom breaks and are then told what races to handicap....so software, no talking, just the Daily racing form and their mind:-)

[Partsnut]

Lindsay,

Congratulations on your very representative finish in the contest.
I believe you were in the top 20%.

I'm of the opinion that if you got into the contest in the first place and in fact won 2 or more entries for the contest then you deserve to use them at your discretion. As far as I know, the rules do not prohibit this.
People don't realize that most of the qualifiers require an investment and have a fee attached to them which could range from $25.00 to $400.00.
These days there are very few free contests and in free contests you have to beat 2500 - 6000 participants which is quite a task for anyone.

I know that you use computer software as a tool for you eventual picks and
I would assume the 90% of the entrants do the same. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with that as well. The rules do not prohibit this.
It is still you that picks the winner.

One has to realize that in todays world, computer technology is a fact of life.
One can either go with the flow or not go at all.

[garyscpa]

Hey garyscpa....

Interesting angle, but I view any software package as a tool. It's not simply downloading brisnet information and clicking a button and the software will give you the correct answer. The user still needs to interpret the data.

How about this for a contest......Everyone shows up and is given PP's and has a seat which they cant leave with the exception of restroom breaks and are then told what races to handicap....so software, no talking, just the Daily racing form and their mind:-)

Yeah, I don't really have a problem with people using computer programs to help them make their picks. I don't even mind them taking advice from others, there are picks provided by the Form or other sources for practically every race. Most players would rather live with their own choice.

Anyway, I can't imagine anyone controlling multiple picks without having to share the money, and who wants to cut up the pie in too many pieces? And if you are the controlling player, how do you get the guy that the check is written to to give you your share. By the way, LRH4, are you a pro player?

[LRH4]

Lindsay,

Congratulations on your very representative finish in the contest.
I believe you were in the top 20%.

I'm of the opinion that if you got into the contest in the first place and in fact won 2 or more entries for the contest then you deserve to use them at your discretion. As far as I know, the rules do not prohibit this.
People don't realize that most of the qualifiers require an investment and have a fee attached to them which could range from $25.00 to $400.00.
These days there are very few free contests and in free contests you have to beat 2500 - 6000 participants which is quite a task for anyone.

I know that you use computer software as a tool for you eventual picks and
I would assume the 90% of the entrants do the same. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with that as well. The rules do not prohibit this.
It is still you that picks the winner.

One has to realize that in todays world, computer technology is a fact of life.
One can either go with the flow or not go at all.

Thanks Partsnut......

All I know is that any entry I earn, is my entry and I need to make decisions on my own that in no way could benefit any other person other than myself.

My 77 yr old Dad and I often participate in many of the same qualifiers over the year, and we dont talk at all during the contest.

At the risk of sounding like a pollyanna, I beleive it ultimatley comes down to
one's basic integrity

LRH4

[LRH4]

Yeah, I don't really have a problem with people using computer programs to help them make their picks. I don't even mind them taking advice from others, there are picks provided by the Form or other sources for practically every race. Most players would rather live with their own choice.

Anyway, I can't imagine anyone controlling multiple picks without having to share the money, and who wants to cut up the pie in too many pieces? And if you are the controlling player, how do you get the guy that the check is written to to give you your share. By the way, LRH4, are you a pro player?

Hey garyscpa.......

Question - Anyway, I can't imagine anyone controlling multiple picks without having to share the money, and who wants to cut up the pie in too many pieces?

Answer - Husband/wife

Am I a pro player?.....I'm as pro as anyone reading this post.

Here's the real deal.....anyone reading this post has a basic understanding of horseracing regardless if you focus on speed, pace, class, blah, blah, blah.

One of the key elements in competitive horseplaying is "racing luck". This aspect can not be underestimated. It's a lot like poker. All those guys have a basic understanding, but it's all based on the cards drawn.

There are many self proclaimed horseracing experts out there which is all BS

I've seen these guys at the most prestigious contest of the year, and trust me, they are just like you and me....really. Last year I was a bit intimidated by these so called experts but not this year. The guy who won 500k last year, placed 234th this year.

I'm an okay handicapper, but so are you and the key differentiator are the racing gods......you wont read that in any book, but its true.

LRH4

[garyscpa]

Had you played any tournaments before you became a CT user? Or did you just have enough success with it on a daily basis that you started playing tournaments?

[LRH4]

Had you played any tournaments before you became a CT user? Or did you just have enough success with it on a daily basis that you started playing tournaments?

No...I didnt even know there was a world of competitive horseracing with opportunites to win lots of money. Check out my inital post to learn a little about how I got into this.

For the cost of CT, it's well worth it.....The CT work done by Rube Boxer is all based on engineering principles applied to horses which is unique. Many have asked what is my connection to CT - I dont have one but its not because of lack of trying:-)

My defining moment with CT, was when I won 15k on the late Pick 4 at Hollywood Park

LRH4

[garyscpa]

So do you think that from what you've learned using CT that if you were forced to handicap without it that you would be a better handicapper than you were before?

[LRH4]

So do you think that from what you've learned using CT that if you were forced to handicap without it that you would be a better handicapper than you were before?

Good question!

I could never calculate the engineering principles in play on my won so for better or worse, I need CT. When there is a big negative RF number on a horse, I get a rush knowing that the horse will be flying down the back stretch.

Net/Net...take away CT, take away LRH4

My advantage, is that I'm a power user with CT and understand some of the finer points to handicapping more than Rube......no offense Rube as I know you read my posts ;-)

LRH4

[garyscpa]

Agree with your position on the husband/wife thing. It's a tough call, since some of the wives really handicap and are as good or better than their husbands, and can easily stand on their own as a handicapper.

And I guess depending on the relationship and the self-confidence of the husband/wife, he or she may listen to the advice/order or make their own play.

[raybo]

I don't know, for sure, how Lindsay will answer that question, but, having never used any software or application that wasn't of my own design, to use as a tool to wager real money with, doesn't change the fact that I certainly would not be lost without that tool.

However, knowing how to handicap, in a way that is best for me, with or without that tool, means that not only do I know how to handicap well without it, I also know how to handicap well with it, and using the tool enables me to be better at the non-handicapping side of the game.

A tool is just a tool, it enables you to do what you do in a more efficient manner. It doesn't make silly mathematical errors, if designed right, it doesn't let you miss basic factors, that you should never miss, it saves you time, and decreases stress, allowing you to focus and keep a calm demeanor.

The tool makes you a better player, not a better handicapper.

[LRH4]

Agree with your position on the husband/wife thing. It's a tough call, since some of the wives really handicap and are as good or better than their husbands, and can easily stand on their own as a handicapper.

And I guess depending on the relationship and the self-confidence of the husband/wife, he or she may listen to the advice/order or make their own play.


100% agree with you garyscpa

I've gotten lots of private emails so just want to remind everyone, you can reach me directly at lindsay_hurst@msn.com

LRH4
"handicap early, bet late"

[garyscpa]

I don't know, for sure, how Lindsay will answer that question, but, having never used any software or application that wasn't of my own design, to use as a tool to wager real money with, doesn't change the fact that I certainly would not be lost without that tool.

However, knowing how to handicap, in a way that is best for me, with or without that tool, means that not only do I know how to handicap well without it, I also know how to handicap well with it, and using the tool enables me to be better at the non-handicapping side of the game.

A tool is just a tool, it enables you to do what you do in a more efficient manner. It doesn't make silly mathematical errors, if designed right, it doesn't let you miss basic factors, that you should never miss, it saves you time, and decreases stress, allowing you to focus and keep a calm demeanor.

The tool makes you a better player, not a better handicapper.

Do you think being disciplined enough to write the program and identify the critical factors made you a better player? I'm guessing yes.

Thanks for the response, raybo. I always enjoy reading about your programming and superfecta ideas.

[garyscpa]

100% agree with you garyscpa

I've gotten lots of private emails so just want to remind everyone, you can reach me directly at lindsay_hurst@msn.com

LRH4
"handicap early, bet late"

You are a scholar and a gentleman, Lindsay.

[raybo]

Do you think being disciplined enough to write the program and identify the critical factors made you a better player? I'm guessing yes.

Thanks for the response, raybo. I always enjoy reading about your programming and superfecta ideas.

I will say that, having written many Excel spreadsheets over the years, the "process" has made me a better player. You can't write a piece of software, from scratch, without understanding the handicapping process first, and having a pretty good idea of what is important and what is not. But, the process and the overall experience, confirms and clarifies things that would have taken many more years to obtain without having gone through the experience.

[teddy]

Do you think being disciplined enough to write the program and identify the critical factors made you a better player? I'm guessing yes.

Thanks for the response, raybo. I always enjoy reading about your programming and superfecta ideas.

THE ONLY PERSON I KNOW THAT WON OVER 4 MILLION WITH HORSERACING WAS REALLY DEEP INTO THE SUPER AND TRI. BOXING CONTENDERS ON TOP AND BIASED HORSES . STILL NOT SURE EXACTLY HOW? JUST THAT HE WOULD SAY THAT HE KNEW THIS GROUP WAS WAY BETTER THAN THAT GROUP.

[Fingal]

I will say that, having written many Excel spreadsheets over the years, the "process" has made me a better player. You can't write a piece of software, from scratch, without understanding the handicapping process first, and having a pretty good idea of what is important and what is not. But, the process and the overall experience, confirms and clarifies things that would have taken many more years to obtain without having gone through the experience.

:ThmbUp:

Numbers help you quantify things, experience tells you what to quantify.
Because when you try to quantify everything, you quantify nothing.

[LRH4]

You are a scholar and a gentleman, Lindsay.

Thanks....All I'm trying to do is share my experiences and encourage folks not to give up as this is a tough sport to consistently beat.


LRH4

[LRH4]

I will say that, having written many Excel spreadsheets over the years, the "process" has made me a better player. You can't write a piece of software, from scratch, without understanding the handicapping process first, and having a pretty good idea of what is important and what is not. But, the process and the overall experience, confirms and clarifies things that would have taken many more years to obtain without having gone through the experience.

raybo.....
I just checked out your website - pretty impressive stuff

LRH4

[horsepro]

THATS THE THOUGHTS OF A TRUE HORSERACING FAN.

[raybo]

raybo.....
I just checked out your website - pretty impressive stuff

LRH4

Thanks Lindsay!

Both Harry (Hcap) and I are pretty satisfied with what the AllData project has become. The 2 tools, I believe, are as good as any out there, at the price, without much doubt.

Like you, we just want to do whatever we can to make players successful, or more successful. The pats on the back help keep it going.

[punteray]

Lindsay

I sent you an email and was wondering if you received it?

Ray Scalise punteray@yahoo.com

[LRH4]

Lindsay

I sent you an email and was wondering if you received it?

Ray Scalise punteray@yahoo.com

Hey Ray.....

I just responded to you.

I'm back in Vegas this week to participate in the World Series of Handicapping. I'm setting up a twitter account for those that want to follow along real time, assuming I can get a connection in the Orleans ballroom. My goal is to send out "tweets" of my various picks/analysis so we can all see CT in action.

Take care,

LRH4

[LRH4]

Hey Ray.....

I just responded to you.

I'm back in Vegas this week to participate in the World Series of Handicapping. I'm setting up a twitter account for those that want to follow along real time, assuming I can get a connection in the Orleans ballroom. My goal is to send out "tweets" of my various picks/analysis so we can all see CT in action.

Take care,

LRH4

I know my initial post has taken some twists and turns over the last couple of months but I'd like to bring it back to CT and report on how I did at the recent Word Series of Handicapping in Vegas.

With the help of CT, on the second day, I had the top total points, winning $9,000 and then came in overall 16th place out of 659, winning another $4,000.

On day two, I was lucky enough to have 7 winners (3/1 to 37/1) and 1 place out of 15 wagers.

Thanks for all those that followed me on Twitter and hope my tweets we're helpful.

For the CT folks who are on my email distribution list, I'll go into much more detail to show you what I saw in the CT report. If you are interested in joining the list, just email me at lindsay_hurst@msn.com

Hope everyone is doing well

LRH4
(Lindsay)

[RichieP]

With the help of CT, on the second day, I had the top total points, winning $9,000 and then came in overall 16th place out of 659, winning another $4,000.

On day two, I was lucky enough to have 7 winners (3/1 to 37/1) and 1 place out of 15 wagers.
LRH4
(Lindsay)

That is some serious good work and awesome capping! Congratulations on a tremendous result man :ThmbUp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHstlUiEaos

[Jingle]

Excellent job Lindsay and you deserve a pat on the back. No voodoo--just good handicapping on your part. You look at all factors and realize the race doesn't always go to the swiftest. (I wish I could remember that all the time).
Congratulations!!

Richie--nice pick on Youtube--great song. I still live in that era when it comes to music. I tell my kids I really must be getting old when I don't recognize 1 artist coming to the Mohegan Sun in the next month.

[Vinnie]

Congratulations on such a terrific showing in the World Series of Handicapping Tournament this past weekend at the Orleans. WOW!! You did Fantastic!! To finish 16 out of nearly 700 handicappers and in the company that you did is indeed a wonderful feat. In a mere blink, you could have taken home the whole enchilada. I am sure that it must provide such an incredible rush and feeling to be in contention like that in such a humongous handicapping tounament. I myself have never experienced anything quite like that in the realm of handicapping.

Once again, Kudos to you on some incredible handicapping Lindsay. You tore it up Big Time. Way to go my friend... :)

Have a super day and week.

[Roger]

That's Fantastic Lindsay, That is one hell of a showing Congratulations!
Going back to Computrak and get myself familiarised again.

Great Job!
Roger, :ThmbUp:

[LRH4]

That is some serious good work and awesome capping! Congratulations on a tremendous result man :ThmbUp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHstlUiEaos

Thanks RichieP...

But as was previously mentioned, it has to be "your day"...I had over 75 races to select from and I landed on the ones I did. We all have basic handicapping skills but every now and then that special magic happens which always leads us back to fight another day

Take care....

LRH4
(Lindsay)

btw - great tune;-)

[LRH4]

Excellent job Lindsay and you deserve a pat on the back. No voodoo--just good handicapping on your part. You look at all factors and realize the race doesn't always go to the swiftest. (I wish I could remember that all the time).
Congratulations!!

Richie--nice pick on Youtube--great song. I still live in that era when it comes to music. I tell my kids I really must be getting old when I don't recognize 1 artist coming to the Mohegan Sun in the next month.

Thanks Jingle.....
I really wish I had more time to devote to this great sport. The guys I were sitting with were all talking about the next handicapping event (I think next month) and asked me if they would see me there....ahhh, no I have a full-time job
Oh well...maybe someday

Take care
LRH4
(Lindsay)

[LRH4]

Congratulations on such a terrific showing in the World Series of Handicapping Tournament this past weekend at the Orleans. WOW!! You did Fantastic!! To finish 16 out of nearly 700 handicappers and in the company that you did is indeed a wonderful feat. In a mere blink, you could have taken home the whole enchilada. I am sure that it must provide such an incredible rush and feeling to be in contention like that in such a humongous handicapping tounament. I myself have never experienced anything quite like that in the realm of handicapping.

Once again, Kudos to you on some incredible handicapping Lindsay. You tore it up Big Time. Way to go my friend... :)

Have a super day and week.

Hey buddy.....

First of all I owe you a big one!.....Thanks for emailing me the brisnet data for CT for Saturday as it was not posted when I left for Vegas. Because of that data, I found a 14/1 shot and landed in 16th place....thanks again

Yeah, it was a rush going into day 3 in 4th place but I just couldnt produce at the same level I did on day 2. I met the guy who won the 297k - nice guy and I'm happy for him

Take care....

LRH4
(Lindsay)