Tell California: "You are Dead to Me"

[Rook]

There has been talk about boycotting California tracks if they go ahead with their takeout increase. I agree that would be an appropriate response but there is something simple and accountable that we PA members could do to draw attention to our displeasure.

Until the takeout increase is rescinded, we should have a posting boycott on any thread that discusses California racing in a positive or neutral manner. As soon as someone starts a thread about something like Zenyatta's upcoming Oak Tree race, a whole slew of posters should respond with the blunt message "Boycott California Racing."

Every racetrack should be given notice that PA members are going to say "You are Dead to Me" to any takeout raising track.

[DeanT]

Brilliant.

[GaryG]

Rook, they have been dead to me since they installed the synthetics. I used to wait all year for the Pomona meet, but it is not the same with all the poly form. Have not bet a dime there in ages.

[thespaah]

There has been talk about boycotting California tracks if they go ahead with their takeout increase. I agree that would be an appropriate response but there is something simple and accountable that we PA members could do to draw attention to our displeasure.

Until the takeout increase is rescinded, we should have a posting boycott on any thread that discusses California racing in a positive or neutral manner. As soon as someone starts a thread about something like Zenyatta's upcoming Oak Tree race, a whole slew of posters should respond with the blunt message "Boycott California Racing."

Every racetrack should be given notice that PA members are going to say "You are Dead to Me" to any takeout raising track.does this mean we should take Cali racing out into a rowboat and shoot it in the head?:lol:

[Pick6]

WPS remains unchanged. If it means more horses to choose from, then it might be better. But it probably won't work out that way. More evidence that trainers run the show.

[toetoe]

Memo to Bo Derek's bressages:

"You two are dead to me." Gawd, that hurt. :( .

[Stillriledup]

Im in. Everyone cali thread i'm just going to post "Dead to me, boycott california racing"

good idea.

[Jeff P]

I'm in.

Dead to me as well.


-jp

.

[cj]

I'm in.

Dead to me as well.


-jp

.

Been dead to me. The only reasons I even am aware they still race there are andymays and some rubber specialist horse they have.

[thaskalos]

NOT EVEN A DIME ON CALIFORNIA RACING!

[BillW]

Memo to Bo Derek's bressages:

"You two are dead to me." Gawd, that hurt. :( .

Let's hope you three can make up at some point :eek:

I'm in too

[Charlie D]

Never alive here, but i'll join in if thats ok.

Cal racing is DEAD to me.

[JustRalph]

I was kind of looking forward to Oak Tree at HOL..........

But what the hell...... Dead to me..........

[PhantomOnTour]

Caliwho?

[BillW]

I was kind of looking forward to Oak Tree at HOL..........

But what the hell...... Dead to me..........

Play it in contests :)

[turfnsport]

http://www.turfnsport.com/racingnews/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/calracing.jpg

I'm in ...RIP

[Charlie D]

:D

[InsideThePylons-MW]

I'm not in.

The only way I ever make money is betting the TVG expert's SoCal P-4 + P-6 tickets and I've heard them say many times that takeout doesn't matter.

I'm not giving up my cash cow.

[OntheRail]

does this mean we should take Cali racing out into a rowboat and shoot it in the head?:lol:

Well with the way they keep shoot themselves in the foot... that be the merciful thing to do. :D

SA going back to dirt is a step in the right direction... then they want to up the takeout. Bang right in the foot. :lol:

[Bruddah]

Inside the Pylons, don't take any boat rides offered by members of this board. :lol:

Count me in, no Cali for me too.

[DeanT]

That's funny Turfnsport!

I wonder if you threw it down to Bigmack. It will be interesting to see if he shows up with one :)

[DeanT]

Well Rook's message must be getting around. I am now getting emails about it; with pictures :)

[David-LV]

I have not been betting much since they put in that synthetic junk, but now I will not bet a wooden nickel on California Racing.

I'm in, :ThmbDown::ThmbDown:CALIFORNIA RACING IS DEAD TO ME.:ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

___________
David-LV

[PaceAdvantage]

Until the takeout increase is rescinded, we should have a posting boycott on any thread that discusses California racing in a positive or neutral manner. As soon as someone starts a thread about something like Zenyatta's upcoming Oak Tree race, a whole slew of posters should respond with the blunt message "Boycott California Racing."My first reaction to this idea is certainly not a positive one.

[thaskalos]

My first reaction to this idea is certainly not a positive one.I didn't think it would be...:lol:

[surfdog89]

IT'S A FREE COUNTRY ............ :bang:NOT IN!

[andymays]

This campaign is the Horseplayers version of the circular firing squad. I get the idea but if anyone would think about it you might want to redirect the anger to the right people.

How does this stuff benefit a message board?

The Villains in California Racing are easy to find and there's only a handfull of them screwing things up for the thousands of people involved in California Racing. Believe it or not a campaign like this gives the few Villains ammunition. You might want to use a "smart bomb" instead of a "carpet bomb". You need the good people in California Racing to support positive changes. This stuff could have the opposite effect.

If you want to direct the anger in the right place here it is:

California Horse Racing Board - Staff Directory

http://chrb.ca.gov/staff_directory.htm


There are also contact numbers for Del Mar, Santa Anita, Oak Tree, and Hollywood Park on their websites.

Good luck.

[Tom]

How does the new, higher take out compare to other tracks' current rates?

[BillW]

How does the new, higher take out compare to other tracks' current rates?

Doesn't matter ... it's the trend that is disturbing.

[andymays]

How does the new, higher take out compare to other tracks' current rates?

It still will be less than most but you also have the short fields which makes it bad anyway. A line has to be drawn with this increase in takeout.

The problem in California is the dishonest process they use to get what they want. That stuff magnifies the problems and pisses everyone off. Certain people and organizations deserve bashing. Most don't.

This is a good one for today. :rolleyes:

CALIFORNIA ANTI-GAMING GROUP GETTING INVOLVED IN EXCHANGE WAGERING DEBATE

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/california-anti-gaming-group-getting-involved-in-exchange-wagering-debate/

[jelly]

CALIFORNIA RACING IS DEAD TO ME :ThmbUp:

[Stillriledup]

IT'S A FREE COUNTRY ............ :bang:NOT IN!


Not in? I don't get it.

CRDTM

[Lasix67]

And to think that some of my biggest hits were at Hollywood Park, but of course that was pre-synthetic track.
You can count me in as well on not playing one dime on any California track, and that's just a damned shame.....

[OTM Al]

Does this mean we can blot out and Rachel vs Zenyatta thread or any TVG thread since they are based in CA? I'm all for it in that case.....

[DeanT]

But don't insult me with another tax hike that makes the game even less attractive. I'm not an addict, and neither are the vast, vast majority of other horseplayers. We don't need to wager seriously on the game if we have absolutely no chance to win.

What this bill essentially says should be of no surprise to anyone who has watched the national news in the past several years. Now, more than ever, it's the consumers' responsibility to prop up horse owners who have overspent on their operations and have forgotten that racing a horse once was a privilege and sport, but now has become a painful ink stain on a spreadsheet to too many. It wasn't horseplayers who drove up the yearling prices, or who decided that because a drugged-up 2-year-old worked in 11 seconds at an auction preview, that he or she suddenly became worth $140,000 when the same horse should have sold for $20,000 based on pedigree.

Plonk on the takeout hike in CA on ESPN.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=plonk_jeremy&id=5527789

[andymays]

Plonk on the takeout hike in CA on ESPN.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=plonk_jeremy&id=5527789

Good Stuff. Gotta get it out to people.

It's out. :ThmbUp:

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Plonk on the takeout hike in CA on ESPN.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=plonk_jeremy&id=5527789
I can't believe that Plonk really doesn't get takeout. He shows no understanding of churn, and he assumes handle will remain the same regardless of takeout.
He also buys into the stupid premise that the cost of the game has something to do with how to price the bets.

I don't like the article at all. He is in a position to inform, but he is one who needs more information.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Plonk on the takeout hike in CA on ESPN.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=plonk_jeremy&id=5527789

Plonk has no idea what he's talking about......

" It's as simple as that. Keep taking away money from the consumer and see where that gets you in a sport whose revenue is 100 percent consumer driven."

Arnold Zetcher, Chairman of the TOC....

"And our owners, who provide the major part of the funding for our sport, must be recognized for their contribution."


Who are you going to believe when it comes to who provides the funding for horse racing.....Plonk or Zetcher?

[InsideThePylons-MW]

I can't believe that Plonk really doesn't get takeout. He shows no understanding of churn, and he assumes handle will remain the same regardless of takeout.
He also buys into the stupid premise that the cost of the game has something to do with how to price the bets.

I don't like the article at all. He is in a position to inform, but he is one who needs more information.


I agree.

Article is all over the place and he seems to not quite understand what he's talking about except that tax hikes are bad.

[toussaud]

it ain't the way I wanted it! I can handle things! I'm smart!

[andymays]

I didn't read it closely before I sent it out.

I hope it's just the first of many articles on this topic and they get better with each one.

I sent it out with this excerpt:


But don't insult me with another tax hike that makes the game even less attractive.

[DeanT]

I can't believe that Plonk really doesn't get takeout. He shows no understanding of churn, and he assumes handle will remain the same regardless of takeout.
He also buys into the stupid premise that the cost of the game has something to do with how to price the bets.

I don't like the article at all. He is in a position to inform, but he is one who needs more information.
He did mention churn in his last line.

"But I've already been betting less and less every year because of the takeout. That's not a consumer choice or me standing my ground on any moral issue. The bottom line is that you can't bet what you don't have. It's as simple as that."

[Horseplayersbet.com]

He did mention churn in his last line.

"But I've already been betting less and less every year because of the takeout. That's not a consumer choice or me standing my ground on any moral issue. The bottom line is that you can't bet what you don't have. It's as simple as that."
But he still says the owners will get this and that as if handle will remain stagnant.
Again, a not very well thought out piece.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

And how do they figure that $35-$70 million number.....that seems like a lot unless they raise the host fees for their signals the entire 2%-3%.

[DeanT]

And how do they figure that $35-$70 million number.....that seems like a lot unless they raise the host fees for their signals the entire 2%-3%.

I wish I knew. I have done some of the math and it does not quite fit. But maybe big horse owners in CA like you can get your hands on the secret numbers they are using?

[turfnsport]

From DRF:
Proponents say the takeout increase would add $25 million to $30 million in purses annually.

http://www.drf.com/news/california-takeout-bill-faces-hurdles

[Horseplayersbet.com]

From DRF:
Proponents say the takeout increase would add $25 million to $30 million in purses annually.

http://www.drf.com/news/california-takeout-bill-faces-hurdles
Again, this assumes that handle stays stagnant. It won't. It can't.
And the racetracks who aren't get any of the "raise" will wind up with a lot less.
A lot less.

[rwwupl]

In my opinion, Jeremy Plonk is a great writer... and he gets it.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

I wish I knew. I have done some of the math and it does not quite fit. But maybe big horse owners in CA like you can get your hands on the secret numbers they are using?

I don't go near these people or their secret numbers. One of my trainers is partners with the person who has the secret numbers.

I got suckered into going to Del Mar 3 times this meet. Thinking about, before that, I can only remember going to a track in CA 3 other times or so in the last 5+ years.

[Sericm]

Steven Crist DRF
(The takeout is being raised by three points from 20.68 to 23.68 percent, a 15-percent increase, on bets involving three or more horses – the intrarace trifecta, superfecta, and super high five and the multirace pick three pick four, pick six, and place pick-all. At 23.68, this takeout is higher than Kentucky’s nation-low 19 percent rate on these bets but still lower than the bite in New Jersey (25.0 percent), Maryland (25.75 percent), New York (26.0 percent), and Pennsylvania (30-31 percent.)

Are the lemmings on this site boycotting New Jersey, Maryland, New York or Pennsylvania? What a bunch of hypocrites!

[thespaah]

Steven Crist DRF
(The takeout is being raised by three points from 20.68 to 23.68 percent, a 15-percent increase, on bets involving three or more horses – the intrarace trifecta, superfecta, and super high five and the multirace pick three pick four, pick six, and place pick-all. At 23.68, this takeout is higher than Kentucky’s nation-low 19 percent rate on these bets but still lower than the bite in New Jersey (25.0 percent), Maryland (25.75 percent), New York (26.0 percent), and Pennsylvania (30-31 percent.)

Are the lemmings on this site boycotting New Jersey, Maryland, New York or Pennsylvania? What a bunch of hypocrites!The issue is not the end percentage of the takeout. The issue is the amount of the increase based on the fact that higher takeout will result in lower handle.
The underlying issue is that of frustration out of government's insatiable desire to increase taxes in a faltering economy. That and increasing taxes on an industry( horse racing) that is struggling to control losses.
If you or anyone else is so enamored with saving the horsement from themselves, write a check. Don't you dare reach into someone else's pocket for your self interest.
TO date at no time has a society been able to tax itself into prosperity.
LOWERING takeout( taxes) with appropriate reductions in spending is the fastest way to INCREASE revenue.
The largest players who look at ROI would surely bet with even bigger fists if they knew the cost of a wager was decreased.

[NatteringNeighBob]

Steven Crist DRF
(The takeout is being raised by three points from 20.68 to 23.68 percent, a 15-percent increase, on bets involving three or more horses – the intrarace trifecta, superfecta, and super high five and the multirace pick three pick four, pick six, and place pick-all. At 23.68, this takeout is higher than Kentucky’s nation-low 19 percent rate on these bets but still lower than the bite in New Jersey (25.0 percent), Maryland (25.75 percent), New York (26.0 percent), and Pennsylvania (30-31 percent.)

Are the lemmings on this site boycotting New Jersey, Maryland, New York or Pennsylvania? What a bunch of hypocrites!
If you are going to cherry pick quotes from the Crist article how about using this one:

"The racing board was silent, however, on comparisons with other states regarding the other takeout increase in the bill – a jump from 20.68 to 22.68 percent on two-horse bets such as exactas and daily doubles.

The silence is understandable: Only three tracks in the Unites States (Arapahoe Park, Canterbury, and Suffolk) take more than 22 percent on two-horse bets, while every other major racing state has a significantly lower bite on them, including New York at 18.5 percent and Kentucky and New Jersey at 19.0 percent.

...In fact, a 22.68 takeout rate on exactas and daily doubles is exorbitant and by far the highest at any major circuit in the country."

It make us lemmings appear a bit less hypocritical :D

[point given]

IT'S A FREE COUNTRY ............ :bang:NOT IN!

We know where you live ! :lol:

[Track Collector]

Let's see......

Higher takeout leads to lower handle.
Lower handle leads to less corporate profits.
Less corporate profits leads incompetent management to raise takeout.

The cycle continues until enough customers are driven away to make the business unsustainable.

Maybe this is not a case of ignorance, but rather a deliberate effort to extract as much short-term profit as possible before the business closes permanently.

[exiles]

CA racing is been dead for me since POLYCRAP AND PROSHIT, and I'm never going back. RIP

[jelly]

Steven Crist DRF
(The takeout is being raised by three points from 20.68 to 23.68 percent, a 15-percent increase, on bets involving three or more horses – the intrarace trifecta, superfecta, and super high five and the multirace pick three pick four, pick six, and place pick-all. At 23.68, this takeout is higher than Kentucky’s nation-low 19 percent rate on these bets but still lower than the bite in New Jersey (25.0 percent), Maryland (25.75 percent), New York (26.0 percent), and Pennsylvania (30-31 percent.)

Are the lemmings on this site boycotting New Jersey, Maryland, New York or Pennsylvania? What a bunch of hypocrites!




New Jersey 15% on pick4 and pick5

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Even Woodbine is going to have a lower takeout on doubles and exactors than California.

I can't believe I just typed that, but it is true.

Actually, Woodbine has a lower takeout on exactors and doubles than California before this hike.

[Hajck Hillstrom]

Thank gawd! Now I don't have to discuss this $1.5 MILLION Pik6 carry-over tomorrow at Del Mar.......

:lol:

[owlet]

Let's see......

Higher takeout leads to lower handle.
Lower handle leads to less corporate profits.
Less corporate profits leads incompetent management to raise takeout.

The cycle continues until enough customers are driven away to make the business unsustainable.

Maybe this is not a case of ignorance, but rather a deliberate effort to extract as much short-term profit as possible before the business closes permanently.

Exactly, precisely. You're one the few guys who gets it.

[Hoofless_Wonder]

This thread doesn't make much sense to me.

Pollute threads of California racing topics with spam 'cause you want CONTINUE to whine? You took your ball and went home already.

Boycott Cali racing prior to the takeout increase? Los Al increased their takeout a while back, and handle dropped for a while. Did it recover?

Assume that a lower takeout means the betters show up and wager with "both fists"? New Jersey and Louisana could lower their takeouts to 5% and they still wouldn't draw my dollars - I can't pick my nose there.

No consideration for quality of product vs. the takeout %? There's only a handful of circuits that have decent racing, and S. Cali (even with polycrap) is still one of them.

I agree the increase in handle is a move that will have diminishing returns over time, but business owners charge "what the market will bear" until proven otherwise. The recent move by the Illinois Racing Board to enforce the ADW cap backfired on them - the handle from ADW sites went down 47%. Now that was extortion - plain and simple. I couldn't bet Del Mar or Saratoga via my online account, but could if I went to the OTB or on track. So, even though the cap was lifted and I can now play those venues, I won't be betting Illinois racing again. My choice - taking my ball and going home. But I won't be complaining about it in all the Illinois racing threads.

Only time will tell about the effect of increased takeouts in Cali racing if it's passed.

[proximity]

*when comparing california takeouts to those of other states, keep in mind that california is notorious for allowing zero or trivial rebates on their racing. they are pathetic.

* california racing is also notorious for only TAKING from the sport. players at tracks and otbs throughout the mid-atlantic states have been able to watch and wager on FULL CARDS of california racing EVERY single day that they run. but california's own simulcasting has been horrid for years. offer full card simulcasting to help your own purses and also help seed the pools of other tracks throughout the country that are helping to seed yours vs raise takeouts on your own pathetic product?? sad.

[bigmack]

This thread doesn't make much sense to me.

Pollute threads of California racing topics with spam 'cause you want CONTINUE to whine? You took your ball and went home already.

Only time will tell about the effect of increased takeouts in Cali racing if it's passed.
This is my feeling as well. Ya know, if you choose not to wager CA tracks that's within your right, and it might very well show up in the handle, depending on your level of wager, (which in most cases is pale.)

Ineffectual & futile to say on a message board about your disdain for policy. Go forth and 'fight the good fight' in a venue that might make a hill o' beans difference.

Pile-on 'me too's' in a forum such as this might make you feel like a resolute voice in the crowd but it's a voice to the wrong audience & on deaf ears.

Go make your voice known with those entities making actual decisions if you feel compelled to have a voice. This thread means nothing to anyone with a meaningful decision to be made.

[Stillriledup]

*when comparing california takeouts to those of other states, keep in mind that california is notorious for allowing zero or trivial rebates on their racing. they are pathetic.

* california racing is also notorious for only TAKING from the sport. players at tracks and otbs throughout the mid-atlantic states have been able to watch and wager on FULL CARDS of california racing EVERY single day that they run. but california's own simulcasting has been horrid for years. offer full card simulcasting to help your own purses and also help seed the pools of other tracks throughout the country that are helping to seed yours vs raise takeouts on your own pathetic product?? sad.

This is a great point, Calif doesnt offer too many tracks, they don't let you bet on a full menu which forces players to drive to Vegas to REALLY gamble on horses the way horses should be gambled on.

[toetoe]

Well Rook's message must be getting around. I am now getting emails about it; with pictures :)



Proctology is like a box o' chocolates.

--- Dr. Spredger Cheakes.

[bane]

Calif racing is typical of the state, too many people trying to control too much.