MTB to Get Blinkers for the Woodward

[Saratoga_Mike]

After getting beat by almost 13 lengths in the Grade I Whitney, it appears that Lukas is now pointing MTB toward the Grade I Woodward. The horse certainly belongs in another Grade I race, and he certainly needs blinkers. :rolleyes: If the blinkers cause MTB to race closer to the pace in the Woodward, I suspect he gets beat by 15 to 20 lengths.

[Hanover1]

So he's gonna actually try to put this horse a little closer to the action next time. You need a horse to go with that riggin', along with a raindance.

[Tom]

I'd put the blinkers on Lukas and point him toward a Gr3 or CLF Alw race. :rolleyes:

Or go to Woodbine - he liked that track.

[Mineshaft]

Lukas is grasping at straws. Poor horse is not the same they are trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip

[Stillriledup]

The Coach is coaching.

[Bullet Plane]

The race would have to come up soft as mush for MTB to get a piece of it.
The Blinkers just add insult to injury. But, what do I know, Lukas is in the hall of fame.

[Charlie D]

Surely they can find him a nice big field of grass with a mate or two for company.

[point given]

The race would have to come up soft as mush for MTB to get a piece of it.
The Blinkers just add insult to injury. But, what do I know, Lukas is in the hall of fame.


Lukas' former vet should be in the Hall. Curious that he lost his magic touch lately when the pixie dust vanished. One horse that won today that Baffert trained, I think it was Rapport ? was formerly trained by Lukas and owned by Thoroughbred Legends , look how Baffert improved him. I tossed my pps or i'd be more specific on it but it was glaring in form reversal.

[Headbanger]

[/b]


Lukas' former vet should be in the Hall. Curious that he lost his magic touch lately when the pixie dust vanished. One horse that won today that Baffert trained, I think it was Rapport ? was formerly trained by Lukas and owned by Thoroughbred Legends , look how Baffert improved him. I tossed my pps or i'd be more specific on it but it was glaring in form reversal.

What improved the horse? How about fake rubber and a conveyor belt at Saratoga today...if that track was anywhere near fair, Rapport would have been up the track.

[Robert Fischer]

Lukas is grasping at straws. Poor horse is not the same they are trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip

or he is the same (minus the good side of a form cycle) and never was a grade 2 horse.

[castaway01]

I was hoping he was adding wings or a jetpack for the next start; at least then maybe he'd have a chance.

[joanied]

I'll bet Woolley is smiling:) like the Chesher cat...I feel bad for poor MTB, but somehow I have some sense of satisfaction knowing the great D Wayne can't do anything with the horse either...but this news about blinkers, and the fact they want to try again (Woodward) will make that race even more interesting...and IMO, it will seal the fate of MTB...they better do right by that little gelding:mad:

[cj]

or he is the same (minus the good side of a form cycle) and never was a grade 2 horse.

Any horse that demolishes the Derby and loses the Preakness by less than a length was a G1 horse, even if only for two weeks.

[PhantomOnTour]

He also lost that Preakness to the Horse Of The Year....a fine race from MTB. And if things had shaken out a little differently he may have won the Preakness. He was coming and Rachel had run VERY hard early in that race.

Super Saver vs MTB...who ya got? :D

[Robert Fischer]

in a way MTB is kind of Street Sense's foil.

same gimmicky trip to win racings biggest. The link between supposedly trailer-trash Bird and class Street Sense being Borel's game-changing rides in a sport that all the experts say is 90% horse.

He probably has had little effect on SS's breeding value, but it is hard to still think of Street Sense as a really special colt or even to not think of Borel as being the most game-changing big-race jockey of modern times, when at the time SS seemed so classy and Borel just a passenger.

[Robert Fischer]

Any horse that demolishes the Derby and loses the Preakness by less than a length was a G1 horse, even if only for two weeks.

I'm talking grade TWO, i'm not even considering MTB as a G1 horse...

[cj]

I'm talking grade TWO, i'm not even considering MTB as a G1 horse...

That is fine, we're all wrong sometimes. He certainly is not now, but he was for two weeks, maybe five. Even if you consider the Derby a fluke, he backed it up with a fine effort in the Preakness and actually ran pretty well in the Belmont too.

He beat some very good horses in both. Summer Bird, Musket Man, Regal Ransom, Big Drama, General Quarters, and Take the Points have all won some nice races.

[Robert Fischer]

That is fine, we're all wrong sometimes. He certainly is not now, but he was for two weeks, maybe five. Even if you consider the Derby a fluke, he backed it up with a fine effort in the Preakness and actually ran pretty well in the Belmont too.

He beat some very good horses in both. Summer Bird, Musket Man, Regal Ransom, Big Drama, General Quarters, and Take the Points have all won some nice races.

a real shame what they did to TTP.

I have no real probs. saying that MTB was a legit G2. He had that run there, where his actual results and beaten lengths where much much greater than his "performance" over that same stretch of races, but he's in the books.

[joanied]

That is fine, we're all wrong sometimes. He certainly is not now, but he was for two weeks, maybe five. Even if you consider the Derby a fluke, he backed it up with a fine effort in the Preakness and actually ran pretty well in the Belmont too.

He beat some very good horses in both. Summer Bird, Musket Man, Regal Ransom, Big Drama, General Quarters, and Take the Points have all won some nice races.

I agree with you, cj...no one should even try and take away what MTB did last year...he was a Grade 1 horse, no doubt about it...
what has happened to him since then, at least for me, is a mystery...and so far, D Wayne hasn't found the answer.

[Sericm]

:D Mine that Bird and Super Saver are both ONE TRIP WONDERS on a special day. They never were or never will be a top notch horse.

Continually running down the track no matter what race they won on a given day only takes the luster off. Anyone who bets either one is a fool!

[46zilzal]

Lukas is grasping at straws. Poor horse is not the same they are trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip
His modus operandi for years

[PaceAdvantage]

His modus operandi for yearsThe fact that you even make such a comment in this case shows that you don't think before you post.

[slewis]

:D Mine that Bird and Super Saver are both ONE TRIP WONDERS on a special day. They never were or never will be a top notch horse.

Continually running down the track no matter what race they won on a given day only takes the luster off. Anyone who bets either one is a fool!

You're probably correct about one......but you're very very incorrect about the other.

[slewis]

I'm talking grade TWO, i'm not even considering MTB as a G1 horse...

Ok,

Considering MTB defeated Musket Man soundly last year who then came back to run within a couple of lengths to Quality Road and Blame...according to your analysis, all of these horses are Gr 2 at best.

Correct?

[slewis]

Why does everyone keep forgetting when I post that:

a) MTB had serious throat surgery..(in my opinion, any throat surgery is serious for a racehorse)

b) He is a gelding.

[Mineshaft]

The fact that you even make such a comment in this case shows that you don't think before you post.




Are u disagreeing with this statement about how Lukas operates?

[Headbanger]

Are u disagreeing with this statement about how Lukas operates?

The guy is in the Hall of Fame and has trained 5 Derby winners, 13+ classic winners, and numerous Breeders Cup winners. Yeah, while he may not be as good as he once was, he's one of the best of all time and certainly deserves the recognition.

[WinterTriangle]

Anyone who bets either one is a fool!

Guess your bank account didn't look too good after the KY Derby this year.
Ditto, the Derby, Preakness, and Belmont last year. :D

You don't have to figure out, when handicapping a race, if a horse is going to be the greatest of all time. All you have to do is figure out who will be the greatest on that day, in that field.

I'm not one to denigrate horses who have won big for me on *their* day. As a matter of fact, I never forget them. :)

[Robert Fischer]

Ok,

Considering MTB defeated Musket Man soundly last year who then came back to run within a couple of lengths to Quality Road and Blame...according to your analysis, all of these horses are Gr 2 at best.

Correct?
this ain't 6 degrees of kevin bacon

[PaceAdvantage]

Are u disagreeing with this statement about how Lukas operates?I am absolutely disagreeing that Lukas is to blame. He was GIVEN this horse. It's not like he's had this horse his whole career and somehow ruined him to the point where he is now. That theory is dead wrong in this case and you know it...absolutely does not apply.

[Mineshaft]

I am absolutely disagreeing that Lukas is to blame. He was GIVEN this horse. It's not like he's had this horse his whole career and somehow ruined him to the point where he is now. That theory is dead wrong in this case and you know it...absolutely does not apply.





I disagree with you. Hes part to blame and heres why. Instead of giving this horse an Allowance race as a prep race for his first race back what does he do? Grade 2 i belive on the turf. Next a grade 1 at Saratoga. 2 races for MTB and he doesnt fire a lick. My dog can figure out hes not the same horse but not Lukas.


Lets run him the Woodward guys he should be pretty salty in that spot.

[Headbanger]

I disagree with you. Hes part to blame and heres why. Instead of giving this horse an Allowance race as a prep race for his first race back what does he do? Grade 2 i belive on the turf. Next a grade 1 at Saratoga. 2 races for MTB and he doesnt fire a lick. My dog can figure out hes not the same horse but not Lukas.


Lets run him the Woodward guys he should be pretty salty in that spot.

And you would be dead wrong...you really think Lukas is calling the shots? If you do you are totally delusional. This has Double Eagle's fingerprints all over it as they wanted to get this horse to the Breeders Cup Classic and this is the path that they want to take, not Wayne Lukas. Seriously, Lukas has been around the block more often than not and surely can see what any gambler can see. This ain't Lukas calling these shots, it's all on the owners.

[bane]

There is no doubt Double Eagle is calling the shots, it's a shame to see Lukas with no back bone at all.. does he really have that many speeding tickets to pay?

Either get your way and give them back the horse! I'm not a fan of D. Wayne but he has done enough to call a lot of shots and this is not worth it!

[Java Gold@TFT]

I disagree with you. Hes part to blame and heres why. Instead of giving this horse an Allowance race as a prep race for his first race back what does he do? Grade 2 i belive on the turf. Next a grade 1 at Saratoga. 2 races for MTB and he doesnt fire a lick. My dog can figure out hes not the same horse but not Lukas.


Lets run him the Woodward guys he should be pretty salty in that spot.


Lukas enterred MTB in an allowance at CD the day before the Firecracker. It didn't fill so he pulled called the audible in order to get a race into the horse. The only way MTB wins another graded race is if he keeps running until he's 7 and finds one of the more pathetic fields in the handicap division. Hell, even Funny Cide pulled one out of his butt through shear perserverence and age.

[Mineshaft]

There is no doubt Double Eagle is calling the shots, it's a shame to see Lukas with no back bone at all.. does he really have that many speeding tickets to pay?

Either get your way and give them back the horse! I'm not a fan of D. Wayne but he has done enough to call a lot of shots and this is not worth it!




Im sure if Lukas was calling the shots he would still be in some Grade 1 races. But if hes not calling the shots then he has to have some nuts and tell them come get ur horse u are embarrasing me and my name.

[WinterTriangle]

I am absolutely disagreeing that Lukas is to blame. He was GIVEN this horse. It's not like he's had this horse his whole career and somehow ruined him to the point where he is now. That theory is dead wrong in this case and you know it...absolutely does not apply.

I agree. Like Joanie said, "he" can't do anything with the horse either."

However, I think there are those who could. So Lukas would definitely not have been my choice.

MTB has talent and heart. He needs a really good patient developer---he's a gelding and has a lot of life left on the track to race yet. It would be great if he could be given to somebody who could bring him along. He's not even 1/2 as bad as many of the TC horses who ran last year, or some running this year.

[Rise Over Run]

What improved the horse? How about fake rubber and a conveyor belt at Saratoga today...if that track was anywhere near fair, Rapport would have been up the track.

She's a very good horse and her win had little to do with the "conveyor belt" at the track today. She put away a very good filly in Beyondallboundarys and then pulled away from the rest of the field in the final 100-150 yards. How do you figure she would have been "up the track" if it was "fair"?

She ran one of the fastest 1/2-mile splits I've ever seen at Calder last time out. I know she fell apart in the stretch, but she was still beat less than 5 when wrapped up against a horse that loves Calder.

Let's see what Baffert does with this filly and I'll remember to remind you each time she wins a graded stakes race.

[classhandicapper]

The problem with this horse is that he won the Derby with a perfect rail trip on a day when the rail was the best path and then ran well in the Preakness but with an inflated Beyer figure.

Those two races have tended to inflate perceptions about how good he was at his best. But adding insult to injury is that he never developed from that point forward. So he fell further and further behind the best 3YOs in the division and never even got close to the best older horses.

[senortout]

I am absolutely disagreeing that Lukas is to blame. He was GIVEN this horse. It's not like he's had this horse his whole career and somehow ruined him to the point where he is now. That theory is dead wrong in this case and you know it...absolutely does not apply.

It is fair though, to wonder why they chose him when they made the change.

[wisconsin]

It is fair though, to wonder why they chose him when they made the change.

Co-owner Leonard Blach and Lukas go way back, some 40 years.

[bane]

Co-owner Leonard Blach and Lukas go way back, some 40 years.

Goes back to QH racing at Ruidoso.

[joanied]

Let's see how the little horse runs in the Woodward...with blinkers:faint: ...and if he doesn't run a lick, then I'd think it's time to find another trainer...or softer spots for the gallant gelding...or, better yet, despite a 40 year friendship, D. Wayne needs to tell these guys to take the horse back or let HIM pick the races...and, to think about it, if they have a true friendship with Lukas, you'd think they'd defer to HIS better judgment...I never liked MTB's owners, and now I like them even less...I have no respect for men that have no respect for a horse that took them to the highest place in TB racing.
:mad:

[Saratoga_Mike]

Let's see how the little horse runs in the Woodward...with blinkers:faint: ...and if he doesn't run a lick, then I'd think it's time to find another trainer...or softer spots for the gallant gelding...or, better yet, despite a 40 year friendship, D. Wayne needs to tell these guys to take the horse back or let HIM pick the races...and, to think about it, if they have a true friendship with Lukas, you'd think they'd defer to HIS better judgment...I never liked MTB's owners, and now I like them even less...I have no respect for men that have no respect for a horse that took them to the highest place in TB racing.
:mad:

I'm not sure the owners don't respect the horse. Quite the opposite, they may actually have too much respect for his abilities, or at least their perceptions of his abilities. Otherwise, they'd want him placed more sensibly. All that said, I don't care for them--solely b/c of the move to Lukas (I don't blame Lukas for taking the horse of course).

[46zilzal]

many a race horse give us the equivalent of the boxer's No Mas.......appears it has happened to this one, BUT given the modus operandi of the trainer.....

[Saratoga_Mike]

many a race horse give us the equivalent of the boxer's No Mas.......appears it has happened to this one, BUT given the modus operandi of the trainer.....

I don't think he's done by any means. I just think he needs to race at the proper level, which is not the Grade I Woodward.

[cj]

He is a horse making his 3rd start off a long layoff. Do we really want to just write him off yet. His races aren't that terrible and he could turn it around.

His first race back was on a surface he probably didn't like a bit, and his second the pace and quality of the top two gave him little chance. I expect he will run better this time. I'm certainly not betting him, but what is the harm in running him and letting him have a few chances to regain his form?

[Spendabuck85]

Excerpt from drf.com:

It will be blinkers on and Calvin Borel off Mine That Bird when the 2009 Kentucky Derby winner takes on Quality Road and five others in Saturday’s Grade 1, $750,000 Woodward Stakes at Saratoga.
Rajiv Maragh, who has worked Mine That Bird the last two weeks, will be aboard him Saturday from post 2.

http://www.drf.com/news/maragh-will-ride-mine-bird-woodward

[Saratoga_Mike]

He is a horse making his 3rd start off a long layoff. Do we really want to just write him off yet. His races aren't that terrible and he could turn it around.

His first race back was on a surface he probably didn't like a bit, and his second the pace and quality of the top two gave him little chance. I expect he will run better this time. I'm certainly not betting him, but what is the harm in running him and letting him have a few chances to regain his form?

Yes. Even though I LOVE third off the layoff, particularly a long one, I want to write him off for this race, especially with blinkers on and Lukas training. He will be overbet b/c he's a Derby winner and some are still under the impression that Lukas can improve a horse.

He would regain his form and confidence by winning, better yet winning by open lengths. Neither will happen here, imo. I still think he could be a very useful horse, just not a Grade I horse.

[BluegrassProf]

"Lukas" is to "an asshat" as "Maragh" is to...well..."an asshat."

Appropriate. :ThmbUp:

[wisconsin]

many a race horse give us the equivalent of the boxer's No Mas.......appears it has happened to this one, BUT given the modus operandi of the trainer.....

This is the second time on these posts you mention "modus operandi" about Lukas. Still waiting for the last explanation and have grown cobwebs waiting for your "tell all" report on the man.

[Robert Fischer]

MTB's most interesting (in my opinion) career stage was what looked like an increase in baseline ability In The Preakness Stakes.

The Sunland Derby seemed to showcase MTB's actual peak baseline ability levels. He ran well against the grain in Sunland and was a better 4th than many understood it to be.

MTB's Kentucky Derby was a freaky "perfect storm" where the top rivals like Pioneerof the Nile, spotted MTB 10-15 lengths all told after tallying up all the groundLoss, timingEfficiency etc... lengths that they accumulated during the race

However The Preakness showed improvement from Sunland, without as dramatic a trip-advantage. While horses like Rachel and Big Drama did more raw-running in The Preakness, others like Musket Man weren't necessarily OBVIOUSLY better in Baltimore, and horses like Papa Clem were not necessarily better at all.

Actually improving baseline abilities levels aren't that common when stepping up in class. About the least interesting of the common theories that I can come up with is that MTB simply reached his lifetime peak in physical condition and health. That in itself would be a strong virtue if true = a horse that "runs itself into shape", while stepping UP in class. :ThmbUp::ThmbUp:
More interesting theories range from the can of worms called "carrying form forward" = which involves physical or even psychological improvement from recent successes of any reason / even if that success be from having a "perfect storm"

[joanied]

I'm not sure the owners don't respect the horse. Quite the opposite, they may actually have too much respect for his abilities, or at least their perceptions of his abilities. Otherwise, they'd want him placed more sensibly. All that said, I don't care for them--solely b/c of the move to Lukas (I don't blame Lukas for taking the horse of course).

Oh, I think these guys know that it's quite possible MTB will not regain Grade 1 form...and maybe I should not have used the word 'respect'...this horse took them soaring, and if he never does regain the form needed to win at the top level, do you think they'll be happy enough with what he's given thewm...or push him to do things he can't...and no, I don't blame Lukas either...it's common knowledge he ran MTB on turf because the allowance race did'nt fill...although at that stage of his training, it might have been wiser to wait a week for the right race...

now I see they are taking Borel off...so, if the gallant gelding runs a hell of a race in the Woodward, will it be a rider change, equipment change, or that he's finally getting back to form...

but, the bottom line for me is that MTB needs the benefit of the doubt, and I don't think it's too crazy to enter him in the Woodward or any other Grade 1...he was off for a really long time, I can't get myself to give up on him just yet...despite the owners or Lukas...I just love that little horse:)

[classhandicapper]

He is a horse making his 3rd start off a long layoff. Do we really want to just write him off yet. His races aren't that terrible and he could turn it around.

His first race back was on a surface he probably didn't like a bit, and his second the pace and quality of the top two gave him little chance. I expect he will run better this time. I'm certainly not betting him, but what is the harm in running him and letting him have a few chances to regain his form?

I think he should run a little better this time also.

I'm not so sure the inside was the best place to be at Belmont for his last race and he spent most of the race there. Add that to the pace and he didn't have much of a shot to do any running.