Should CA have all take out rates openly posted?

[DJofSD]

Should every bet be labeled as to the takeout cost, or signs be posted at all purchase locations with this information?

I floated the idea recently, I think it was in one of the HANA threads, that in CA, there should be signs posted advertizing the take-out/vig rates for all wagers. It should be posted on all self service machines, within 20 feet of any wagering window and a pop-up on any online platform.

Call it the truth in wagering law.

[rwwupl]

Should every bet be labeled as to the takeout cost, or signs be posted at all purchase locations with this information?

I floated the idea recently, I think it was in one of the HANA threads, that in CA, there should be signs posted advertizing the take-out/vig rates for all wagers. It should be posted on all self service machines, within 20 feet of any wagering window and a pop-up on any online platform.

Call it the truth in wagering law.


Thanks DJ I was trying to put up a poll on the other side, but I got something wrong and had to delete the thread.

It would be like labels on a can of corn,saying how many calories you are consuming.

I think that would put an end to the foolishness of tiered takeouts and possible rebates, and the racing managers would then be compelled to "compete" in the real world as to the cost of a bet. The cost of a bet would be more consistent and LOWER, if everyone was aware of the cost.

It would put an end to the blind takeout that the racing managers hide behind now and give the public confidence that true transparency and competition has arrived in horse racing.

rwwupl

[PhantomOnTour]

They should, but they won't.

They should also have a sign that says: Why are you betting on this poly junk? :D

[mikejlb]

The poll is a great idea.

I just found out that HANA has a page on their website that lists all the tracks and appropriate tax rates for WPS and exotics. Anyone that wants to seriously try to make money betting should know the affect of taxes.

What I said about HANA's page takes nothing away from your suggestion. The racing industry has decided that it's easier to squeeze a shrinking customer base for an extra 2% than to promote racing with a goal of raising the handle 2%+... Is there something not logical in that statement? If the tracks chose to shoot a hole in their foot then they should post what they are doing to the sport and take responsibility for ruining it for young people.

[andymays]

They should be mandated to put the takeout on each betting slip (ticket).

Good Poll. :ThmbUp:

[DJofSD]

They should be mandated to put the takeout on each betting slip (ticket).

Good Poll. :ThmbUp:
Yes. IMO, that would not be any different than the line item showing sales tax on your receipt from the store.

[Greyfox]

I haven't answered the poll yet for several reasons.

First of all, I think the poll itself shows the pollster's bias:

Yes - put all take out rates out in the open for all to see
No - the state of California loves the mushroom theory

The nature of comment behind the "No" selection, will automatically discourage respondents to select that option. The results will not be valid, in my opinion.

Secondly, what is the "Motivation" for the poll?
Is it to educate the betting public? If so, why don't most of them already know the current rates?

Is the motivation to drive away customers? Certainly some bettors who don't know the rates would consider lowering their plays or not playing at all.
Is that good for racing?

Thirdly, I'm guessing that the poll question implies that we are all in favor of lower take out rates. If more people knew the rates, more would put pressure on the Administrative types to lower the rates. Ultimately, the tracks would consider lowering their rates.

Sure, I'm in favor of lower track takeout rates, as most of us are here.
I'm also in favor of tracks posting their rates somewhere in the building and on the program. Beyond that is "overkill" and likely a "turn off" to some bettors.
Some of them may walk away and never say why.
Having them "in the face" of the bettor every time he goes to a teller or every time he looks at his ticket is not my idea of an improvement to the game.

I may vote later, but that's what I'm thinking now.

[DJofSD]

Sure I'm biased.

Since when is transparancy a bad thing?

Yes, I am for lowering the take out rates. However, the poll and discussions are primarily in response to the pending raise in take out rates. These are two separate but related issues.

[Greyfox]

Sure I'm biased.

.

Your poll is obviously going to conclude that voters want the take out rates posted. They should be.
But how and where they are posted is open to debate. Posted as some visitors to this site are suggesting would possibly damage the game.

[CBedo]

So casinos should also post vig rates for very slot machine and table game? :rolleyes:

Last time I checked, most companies aren't required to tell you their margin or markup before they sell your a product.

[positive4th]

So casinos should also post vig rates for very slot machine and table game? :rolleyes:

Last time I checked, most companies aren't required to tell you their margin or markup before they sell your a product.

I agree.......if you agree to take the bet, I don't think they have to post their mark-up, especially considering that you can get that info from multiple sources online with little to no effort.......I bet in CA regularly and it'd be OK if they posted takeouts on-site, but they don't have to.

+++++ BTW, are there any states that DO post their takeouts on-track?

[DeanT]

if you agree to take the bet, I don't think they have to post their mark-up, especially considering that you can get that info from multiple sources online with little to no effort..

Ask Bill W about that. :)

I think getting Obama's personal cell phone number is easier than getting accurate takeout rates for racetracks on the web.

[Hanover1]

I agree with the other guy.....a simple yes-no poll would remove politics, and add objectivity, and perhaps elict more response bolstering either side....for my money I cannot see how it would entice a local $2,00 bettor to examine what, if any, good choices are out there in regards to ROI. Seems going the other direction would produce favorable results, but hey, we talkin SoCal here.......

[TEJAS KIDD]

Someone should do a survey at the racetrack.

Question 1.
Do you know what takeout is?
Question 2
Do you care what takeout is?
Question 3.
Do you know what the takeout is at this racetrack?

A huge majority will answer.
NO NO NO

That's why the tracks have us over a barrel.
The masses don't care.
If you put a slot machine and a racing form in front of a teenager, which do you think he'd go for? What if you told him he has a 5% chance of winning with the slot machine and a 10% chance with the racing form,but he'd have to spend months or years to learn how to read it to become successfull?
I'd bet he'd probably still go for the slot machine.

[Hanover1]

Someone should do a survey at the racetrack.

Question 1.
Do you know what takeout is?
Question 2
Do you care what takeout is?
Question 3.
Do you know what the takeout is at this racetrack?

A huge majority will answer.
NO NO NO

That's why the tracks have us over a barrel.
The masses don't care.
If you put a slot machine and a racing form in front of a teenager, which do you think he'd go for? What if you told him he has a 5% chance of winning with the slot machine and a 10% chance with the racing form,but he'd have to spend months or years to learn how to read it to become successfull?
I'd bet he'd probably still go for the slot machine.

The boys had this figured out 25 years ago. That is why those glittery eye candy machines are keeping many tracks on life support, and have them begging for more-see NJ.

[TEJAS KIDD]

As much as I hate to say this, but if they just threw numbers on random horses with no jockeys and no names and no past performances, there would probably be an increase in handle. Oh wait, never mind, that's already been done and the handle is better. It's called the LOTTERY (50% takeout)

[Steve 'StatMan']

Sure the 'Should' but don't make it a law or a mandate - that's what California usually does about everything and then those laws usually come back and bite them or the people they were meant to benefit.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Someone should do a survey at the racetrack.

Question 1.
Do you know what takeout is?
Question 2
Do you care what takeout is?
Question 3.
Do you know what the takeout is at this racetrack?

A huge majority will answer.
NO NO NO

If they answer NO to question 1....Why would you ask 2 and 3?

[Foolish Pleasure]

NO, NO, NO,

because anyone who does bother to ask with a functioning brain immediately flees quickly,

the obvious implication is someone interested in racing for gambling purposes is probably the guy who is going to ask-

cracks me up everytime, they say nobody at the track knows the takeout,
of course not everyone with brain enough to look already left.





Transparency in takeout via the internet is part of the reason why the sport has such a hard time finding suckers anymore.

[iwearpurple]

Why only California?

Why not all states, and what about Canada?

[rwwupl]

California racing managers are looking for a way to increase public participation in the great game of horse racing in the golden State. A fellow member of the Horse players Association of North America (HANA) has an idea that merits consideration.

DJ of SD says that California should label all bets with the takeout costs, or post signs at the selling point as to the takeout. Much like they label a can of corn or soda as to fat content or calories.

The racing managers insist on informing us that that horse racing customers do not care about takeout, only 2 or 3 out of a hundred customers they say can tell you what the takeout is. If this is so, I am sure that they will support this idea because they have made it clear that they are all for transparency.

But wait...

I can think of a reason or two that the racing managers might not be so willing to support this idea…I think California has tiered takeouts. All bets do not cost the same as to the type of bet or where you live or who you are. If you bet to win, place or show, you are charged one price. If you bet some exotics you are charged another price and other exotics you are charged another price. If you live in a certain State you can get a rebate. Some States you can not get a rebate, and California is one of those. The CHRB is not the cause for a lack of rebates in California, The TOC is responsible by restricting bet processors to access a limit 6.5% of any California bet by law, leaving no wiggle room for rebates . The takeout cost less any rebate is the cost of the bet.

Now I think I know why the customers can not tell you the takeout numbers. When a bet is made few people know what they are paying for the bet because the information is not available, like a label on a can of corn.

There is no reason why one bet should cost more than another, they are all processed electronically, and there is no reason why one customer should pay more for a bet than another customer. ALL bets should cost the same.

How can you expand the fan base and create more revenue if you treat customers differently by giving some rebates and charge others different prices for a bet? With a list of different prices and no menu it is no wonder no one knows how much a bet costs. Is that discriminatory or not? V.I. P. treatment can be in many forms, but this is the wrong way.

Horse racing is a game that skill and handicapping must be rewarded, it is one man against another at the windows and customers need to know that they are playing on a level playing field, and want to be separated according to their skill level and not the size of their wallet or who they know. The CHRB and the legislators have have a mission to protect the citizen/player and need to review this.

The only reason I can think of for not supporting this idea of “Truth in Wagering” is that the racing managers prefer to keep the customers blind and hide behind the lack of information and say the customers do not care. If this were adopted I think the racing managers would have to compete in the real world, and prices would come down with the light of day and handle would go up.

Customers do care. The people love horse racing, but other gaming offers a better deal at this time and our racing managers are not showing respect for the customers they have left and refuse to compete for us.

rwwupl

P.S. Remember to vote in the poll above.

[thaskalos]

Even if a horseplayer is uninterested in the takeout, and its affects...he will be victimized by it just the same.

His pockets will soon be empty...he just won't know why.