10% Takeout experiment : DelPark to lower exactas pricing on-track.

[The_Knight_Sky]

Delaware Ontrack Exacta Payoffs to Increase
By Blood-Horse Staff
Updated: Thursday, August 26, 2010 3:49 PM

Delaware Park will experiment with an ontrack-only pari-mutuel takeout reduction from Sept. 4 through Nov. 6, closing day of the meet.

The “bonus,” as the track calls it, will be for exacta wagers only. The regular takeout rate of 19% will drop to 10% on wagers made at the Stanton, Del., facility. The standard 19% takeout rate will remain in effect for exacta wagers made at other locations.

“As an industry, we need to be creative and find more ways to enhance the ontrack experience,” Delaware Park senior vice president Michael Vild said in a statement. “We are hoping to attract more horseplayers to Delaware Park by offering the ontrack exacta bonus, and at the same time reward and encourage our loyal patrons who continue to wager on Delaware Park.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/58586/delaware-ontrack-exacta-payoffs-to-increase

[andymays]

It's safe to say they will get a lot more action on exactas.

I'm trying to get the California Tracks to have a 10% takeout early pick 4 called the Horseplayers pick 4. It wouldn't be on track only though.

I've talked to a few executives about it and sent out some emails about it. I'm in the process of putting something together to send out tomorrow.

[The_Knight_Sky]

It's safe to say they will get a lot more action on exactas.




Andy, I am interested in this experiment as I am a two horse specialist.
Exactas and Rolling Doubles.

It is in DelPark's interest to lower WPS to 10% for the duration of the
entire meet to realize what can be accomplished with better pricing
over the course of a season. That can be done in 2011.

The WPS rates at 10% makes it realistic to utlize Kelly Percentage wagering
again. At the same time, it lowers the bar for the newcomers to the game.
It affords them simple wagers at decent pricing.

Mastery of win wagers ($2 flat bet profits) is a must.
Instead we have dumb marketing ideas like Quadruple Quadfectas
at 44% being bandied about. That will never work over the long haul.

This is a good start by DelPark management.
I will be paying them a visit on track for sure. :ThmbUp:

This is not a brief 10 day Laurel Park experiment, so I have every reason
to anticipate a spike in the DelPark on-track handle. Next thing on the itinerary is for Delaware Park is to bolster the field sizes every which way in 2011.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Read the article and not really sure how it works because if they explained it right, it's not a reduction in takeout but a bonus on winners.

If there is $200 winning dollars on a winning combo and $150 of it is bet on track, then winning payouts would not increase by 10%. If it does, then it's much more than 10% in that scenario.

[andymays]

This is the next trend. To have something similar to a "door buster" at a local store. Discount one item to draw some people to your location.

It's works if done the right way. If not done the right way the results are minimal.

[The_Knight_Sky]

Read the article and not really sure how it works because if they explained it right, it's not a reduction in takeout but a bonus on winners.




The early details are sketchy.

I went to the DelPark website but I found myself immersed in gaming pages.

I'm sure there will be more details being divulged in the near future.

[DeanT]

It is welcomed to see tracks try and get some patrons into the seats. A bonus on tickets, even for a pool, is not unlike offering some other on track promo, but is a bet better because people rebet the cash they get.

I just hope they dont try to say "this takeout decrease did not work" when there is not a surge bet into the ex pools.

The ontrack handle is probably no more than $100k at DEL. Maybe 35% of it in ex pools, that means $35000 will be getting about a 6% rebate. If the 6% rebate is rebet four times, we can expect DEL's ontrack handle to go up by about $8000 for the entire card - and that $8000 can be spent in any pool, and also at any simulcasted track.

[The_Knight_Sky]

It's works if done the right way.
If not done the right way the results are minimal.




Win Place Show pools are begging for a reduction. I will take increased payouts on Exactas and Doubles without hesitation though.

Laurel Park, Ellis Park, Sam Houston have made a decent, albeit half-hearted attempts.

Either the duration of their experiment wasn't long enough during the course of the meet or the one "reduced" pool wasn't enough to overcome the shortcomings in other areas of the overall racing product (i.e. field sizes).

This is a start. Nothing but a good start.
Way better than what the CHRB is proposing.

[Foolish Pleasure]

at the same time reward and encourage our loyal patrons who continue to wager on Delaware ParK.


Yes by cramming it up the rear end of your offtrack patron or 80%+ of your business-good job. Happens to be the 80% that are subsidizing the 20% that bother to show up in the first place but good work,

maybe next they can introduce penny bets so it takes 500 live patrons worth of bets to pay a teller's hourly wage.


Creating more inequity in the betting does NOT attract new people to the game with a brain. Think some lawyer or doctor not within 100miles of DEL PARK is going to be interested in betting on something where showing up to the track means better odds?


This is a great thing for the live Delaware patron with a clue,
oh right I forgot that concept has long flown the coop,
and for the guy who has a big enough operation to pay for a runner to live in Christiana the next few months.


For everyone else they get to bet against these people at a disadvantage with a strong chance that this will be nothing more than future evidence that takeout cuts don't work. It is obvious as hell anything short of a dramatic wholesale cut in the entire industry is going to amount to future evidence that cuts don't work.


I hate being the rain everytime, I just don't understand why this stuff is so simply obvious to me an uneducated idiotic, moron but not to the rocket scientists and brain surgeons around.


WHat is the problem? STAND UP FOR YOURSELVES, THIS IS BULLSHIT ACTING LIKE HOBOS WHERE ANY POSSIBLE CRUMB OF SALVATION GARNERS A STANDING OVATION.

[Foolish Pleasure]

For the record,

I did my part.


I posted the story on the forums I post on that primarly cater to gamblers most of whom are as afraid of horse racing as cancer.


I pointed out 10% takeout over that many potential outcomes is a nice deal for any gambler.


Sports such as tennis, golf, NASCAR, F1 et al that have outright betting over many potential winners usually trade around a 5% market not including commissions on the exchanges. This is analogous to that in a lot of regards.








Unfortunately I believe if one
wants to make the sport disappear very quickly? Make it so the only way one can get the best prices is by going to each track live.

[InTheRiver68]

Read the article and not really sure how it works because if they explained it right, it's not a reduction in takeout but a bonus on winners.

If there is $200 winning dollars on a winning combo and $150 of it is bet on track, then winning payouts would not increase by 10%. If it does, then it's much more than 10% in that scenario.
This is what net-pool pricing is all about. It allows jurisdictions to use different takeout rates while commingling in the same common pool.

Let's say, for simplicity's sake, that there's $10,000 total in the exacta pool. Let's also say that there's $5,000 in exacta wagers and $200 worth of winning tickets on-track, and another $5,000 in exacta wagers and $200 worth of winning tickets off-site.

The on-site wagers, after deducting the 10% takeout, yield $4,500 in net wagers and $180 worth of net winning tickets. The off-site wagers, after deducting 19% takeout, yield $4,050 in net wagers and $162 in net winning tickets. Total NET winning wagers: $342. Total NET wagers: $8,550.

Price calc: $8,550 / $342 = $25 per NET $1 wagered. The math works out really cleanly, but that's just a coincidence.

Okay, now to convert back to the price you get paid at the window.

Off-site: $25 x (1 - 0.19) x 2 = $40.50.
On-site: $25 x (1 - 0.10) x 2 = $45.00.

The off-site payout is 10% lower than the on-site.

- InTheRiver68

[beertapper]

It's safe to say they will get a lot more action on exactas.

I'm trying to get the California Tracks to have a 10% takeout early pick 4 called the Horseplayers pick 4. It wouldn't be on track only though.

I've talked to a few executives about it and sent out some emails about it. I'm in the process of putting something together to send out tomorrow.

that's a good idea..:ThmbUp:

[lamboguy]

This is the next trend. To have something similar to a "door buster" at a local store. Discount one item to draw some people to your location.

It's works if done the right way. If not done the right way the results are minimal.
they would probably get more action in the long run if they completely eliminated exacta's and all forms of exotic wagers in the long run. since we know that will never happen they will probably get a little bump in their ontrack handle. keep in mind that the rebate one gets on deleware park on exacta wagers is larger than the amount of the decrease in takeout. still this is probably a healthy move for the deleware track, and if you ask me, i would cut the takeout all over and not just in deleware. it would be more beneficial to them and eliminate the middleman. they aren't recieving that much anyway when they ship their signal out.

[castaway01]

Yes by cramming it up the rear end of your offtrack patron or 80%+ of your business-good job. Happens to be the 80% that are subsidizing the 20% that bother to show up in the first place but good work,

maybe next they can introduce penny bets so it takes 500 live patrons worth of bets to pay a teller's hourly wage.


Creating more inequity in the betting does NOT attract new people to the game with a brain. Think some lawyer or doctor not within 100miles of DEL PARK is going to be interested in betting on something where showing up to the track means better odds?


This is a great thing for the live Delaware patron with a clue,
oh right I forgot that concept has long flown the coop,
and for the guy who has a big enough operation to pay for a runner to live in Christiana the next few months.


For everyone else they get to bet against these people at a disadvantage with a strong chance that this will be nothing more than future evidence that takeout cuts don't work. It is obvious as hell anything short of a dramatic wholesale cut in the entire industry is going to amount to future evidence that cuts don't work.


I hate being the rain everytime, I just don't understand why this stuff is so simply obvious to me an uneducated idiotic, moron but not to the rocket scientists and brain surgeons around.


WHat is the problem? STAND UP FOR YOURSELVES, THIS IS BULLSHIT ACTING LIKE HOBOS WHERE ANY POSSIBLE CRUMB OF SALVATION GARNERS A STANDING OVATION.

So someone finally CUTS TAKEOUT by a substantial amount and you're whining and moaning? Unbelievable. So they only did it on track to start---if it works there, don't you think they might say, "Gee, we cut takeout on track and people here bet a lot more on exactas...maybe the same thing would happen if we cut the takeout for everyone?" Someone is actually TRYING for once and showing they have a clue, and it SHOULD be applauded and supported. That's how we get more tracks to do it.

[Robert Goren]

This bring on track exacta pools close to the deal that many online betters get with rebates. That being said, it is probably too little, too late. But least it shows that some tracks are beginning to think about reducing takeout rates.

[lamboguy]

This bring on track exacta pools close to the deal that many online betters get with rebates. That being said, it is probably too little, too late. But least it shows that some tracks are beginning to think about reducing takeout rates.
it is a true statement.

i just bought a horse yesterday from this lady that i had bought from before. i paid $5700 for this horse. he is better looking that the brother that i had bought from her 7 years ago for $75,000. this is what has happened to the racing game. i bought horses for $10,000 this year that 3 years ago would have been $150,000. these are the type of horses that can win at major meets like saratoga or gulfstream and keeneland

[Charlie D]

This is just a gimmick to get fans through the Deleware Park gates. Just like supermarkets use the "buy two, get one free" to get people through their doors instead of going to another supermarket.

More inside venue, more revenue from such things as entrance fees, food and drink etc



thats my two penneth anyway.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

It will be interesting how Equibase handles the payoffs.

[thaskalos]

So someone finally CUTS TAKEOUT by a substantial amount and you're whining and moaning? Unbelievable. So they only did it on track to start---if it works there, don't you think they might say, "Gee, we cut takeout on track and people here bet a lot more on exactas...maybe the same thing would happen if we cut the takeout for everyone?" Someone is actually TRYING for once and showing they have a clue, and it SHOULD be applauded and supported. That's how we get more tracks to do it.I agree.

The only way to increase on-track attendance, is to give people an added incentive for showing up for the "live" product.

This is a step in the right direction, IMO, and I hope it succeeds in a big way...

[InTheRiver68]

It will be interesting how Equibase handles the payoffs.
I hadn't thought of that...they usually report on-track prices, don't they?

- InTheRiver68

[lamboguy]

I agree.

The only way to increase on-track attendance, is to give people an added incentive for showing up for the "live" product.

This is a step in the right direction, IMO, and I hope it succeeds in a big way...
partially right. we seem to forget that horseracing is a fan participation sport. the game has gotten away from that, the results are glaring

[Charlie D]

They seem to forget that we are in the year 2010 Lamboguy and not 1910.

[thaskalos]

They seem to forget that we are in the year 2010 Lamboguy and not 1910.Who is "they" Charlie?

[Charlie D]

The people in charge of this sport mianly thaskalos.


Do they know most own a laptop, PC, have access to internet. do they know a 10% take exactas on track is probably not going to entice many to drive from home to Delaware Park because we live in 2010 with it's technology and not 1910 where none of this were available.

[thaskalos]

The people in charge of this sport mianly thaskalos.


Do they know most own a laptop, PC, have access to internet. do they know a 10% take exactas on track is probably not going to entice many to drive from home to Delaware Park because we live in 2010 with it's technology and not 1910 where none of this were available.The leaders of this industry are so "out-of -touch" with reality...that even a small step in the right direction should be applauded, IMO.

[Charlie D]

The leaders of this industry are so "out-of -touch" with reality


You got it thaskalos. And that being so, a much better step would have been to lower take for all those people who play Delaware Park racing regardless of location.

As stated the majority of Joe public are not going to drive to DP because of this gimmick. A lot may be attracted to play there, invest more into pools, if they were able to benefit from this gimmick though.


This action should benefit the WHOLE of racing and not just a small minority.

[Rutgers]

So someone finally CUTS TAKEOUT by a substantial amount and you're whining and moaning? Unbelievable. So they only did it on track to start---if it works there, don't you think they might say, "Gee, we cut takeout on track and people here bet a lot more on exactas...maybe the same thing would happen if we cut the takeout for everyone?" Someone is actually TRYING for once and showing they have a clue, and it SHOULD be applauded and supported. That's how we get more tracks to do it.


Delaware Park did not “cut takeout” for everyone, it only “cut the takeout” for the on-track wagers. While this is good for those on-track, it actually puts people off-track playing exactas at a disadvantage. And since the majority of the money bet on Delaware Park comes from off-track, more horseplayers are hurt by bonus then are helped by it. And it is inequity in takeout rates (or effective takeout rates) that hurts horse racing in the end, so I am not so sure Delaware Park really has a “clue”.

I believe that was the point Foolish Pleasure was making.

[rrbauer]

So someone finally CUTS TAKEOUT by a substantial amount and you're whining and moaning? Unbelievable. So they only did it on track to start---if it works there, don't you think they might say, "Gee, we cut takeout on track and people here bet a lot more on exactas...maybe the same thing would happen if we cut the takeout for everyone?" Someone is actually TRYING for once and showing they have a clue, and it SHOULD be applauded and supported. That's how we get more tracks to do it.

Really trying? Spare me! Here's a track that gets purses subsidized out the ying-yang, every race, every day, from the slots' brigade and ten years later they decide to cut rates on one pool for two months for the smallest percentage of their horseplayer customer base. This is nothing more than a cynical bird-flip that will result in very little of anything. Then it will be abandoned because it wasn't "popular".

[cj]

Really trying? Spare me! Here's a track that gets purses subsidized out the ying-yang, every race, every day, from the slots' brigade and ten years later they decide to cut rates on one pool for two months for the smallest percentage of their horseplayer customer base. This is nothing more than a cynical bird-flip that will result in very little of anything. Then it will be abandoned because it wasn't "popular".


Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner! Who in the world is going to go to New Castle, Delaware, just for this? When it doesn't work, we'll be told takeout reductions are a flop.

Until there is a cooperative effort among many tracks, it is all just pissing in the wind.

[Fager Fan]

You got it thaskalos. And that being so, a much better step would have been to lower take for all those people who play Delaware Park racing regardless of location.

As stated the majority of Joe public are not going to drive to DP because of this gimmick. A lot may be attracted to play there, invest more into pools, if they were able to benefit from this gimmick though.


This action should benefit the WHOLE of racing and not just a small minority.

Isn't this what we can expect with all the ADW and simulasting partners, who have balked at reducing their take, refused to take signals, etc. in the past when a track has reduced its take?

If the track only keeps 5% of a 20% take on exactas, how can they offer a 10% take? Will the ADW drop their take so that each are only taking 5%?

I have to think they are offering it ontrack only because they don't have negotiate with anyone to do it.

[Charlie D]

Name and shame them FF.

[InTheRiver68]

I have to think they are offering it ontrack only because they don't have negotiate with anyone to do it.
Absolutely.

- InTheRiver68

[Charlie D]

Have they been in contact with any ADW's asking if they would like to participate??

HPB, had a phone call from Delaware??

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Have they been in contact with any ADW's asking if they would like to participate??

HPB, had a phone call from Delaware??
Delaware is doing a good thing here. A great thing? No. They are recognizing the fact that on track players need to get back more in order for them to stay in action longer and the more they leave the track with, the more they are apt to come back faster.

I don't think it has anything to do with ADWs. And no, to my knowledge we didn't get any phone calls.

I would gladly keep any track that reduces takeout on my menu. There are already a couple that have 12% bets like Sam Houston and Retama.

I can't speak for the other ADWs of course, and I have a hunch, many don't want takeout decreases. But honestly, I'd be happy if tracks turned around tomorrow and stated that is it, takeout rates for now on will be between 10-12%.

The game would explode, some of the higher distribution fees would have to be lowered naturally, but in the end, tracks and horsemen would end up rolling in dough and horse racing would be a mainstream sport again.

[The_Knight_Sky]

I would gladly keep any track that reduces takeout on my menu. There are already a couple that have 12% bets like Sam Houston and Retama.



I noticed Retama's 12% takeout on some pools this past weekend.
That left me wondering why haven't they drummed it up in the media for this meet.
__________________________

Del Park Gives Bonus Experiment Some Time - By Tom LaMarra
Updated: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:52 PM

Delaware Park has received mostly favorable feedback on its ontrack exacta bonus experiment, but its potential may be hard to gauge until it has a chance to grow.


“We’re still sort of in the beginning stages of the experiment,” Delaware Park senior vice president and general counsel Michael Vild said Sept. 28. “We decided to give it a couple months and then take a close look at it. Hopefully we can expand it to other pools (in 2011).”

Vild said regulars at the track like the program, and overall industry comment has been positive. The one negative the track hears is that takeout should be reduced for all bettors, no matter where they play races from Delaware Park.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/59085/del-park-gives-bonus-experiment-some-time

[Turkoman]

Looks like Delaware Park has some good things in mind. It would be great if several other tracks would do the same.

Turkoman

[chickenhead]

STAND UP FOR YOURSELVES, THIS IS BULLSHIT ACTING LIKE HOBOS WHERE ANY POSSIBLE CRUMB OF SALVATION GARNERS A STANDING OVATION.

I have to admit I loved this...anytime someone uses Hobo it makes me happy. Not sure why.

[point given]

" Think globally and act locally " It starts with a single track garnering more on track wagering by offering a bonus to ontrack customers, reclaiming them from their homes . No not many will travel great distances to Delaware, but they can expand their local market, just as other tracks can do to their local markets, when they see success at Delaware. If the experiment is expanded to other bet types as well it will be more likely successful IMO. Now if other tracks follow along, it will get more folks on track and reclaim their audience. This might lead to ADWs lowering takeout down the line. It took a while for the tracks to lose their customers and will also take time to get them back and giving ontrack customers a bonus to get them back is a good thing to me. I wish my local track would give me a reason like this to patronize them more than I do now.:ThmbUp:
__________________________

Del Park Gives Bonus Experiment Some Time - By Tom LaMarra
Updated: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 t 12:52 PM
Delaware Park has received mostly favorable feedback on its ontrack exacta bonus experiment, but its potential may be hard to gauge until it has a chance to grow.


“We’re still sort of in the beginning stages of the experiment,” Delaware Park senior vice president and general counsel Michael Vild said Sept. 28. “We decided to give it a couple months and then take a close look at it. Hopefully we can expand it to other pools (in 2011).”

Vild said regulars at the track like the program, and overall industry comment has been positive. The one negative the track hears is that takeout should be reduced for all bettors, no matter where they play races from Delaware Park.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/59085/del-park-gives-bonus-experiment-some-time[/QUOTE]