Monmouth: purse surplu$ for the Fall Meet

[The_Knight_Sky]

Monmouth Adjusts Purse Structure for Fall - By Tom LaMarra
Updated: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 2:57 PM

Monmouth Park’s post-Labor Day meet will offer higher average daily purses than originally projected, officials at the New Jersey racetrack said Aug. 24.

During the meet—Sept. 11-Nov. 21 with racing Saturdays and Sundays—purses will average $375,000 a day, up from the $250,000-$300,000 announced earlier this year. In the Northeast region, Monmouth purses will be the second-highest behind Belmont Park in New York during the fall.

“It’s always a good thing when you have more money to offer,” Monmouth vice president and general manager Robert Kulina said in a statement. “The amount of money distributed at the ‘Elite Summer Meet’ versus the amount of money available has created a surplus for the fall. It’s good news for Monmouth Park, the horsemen, and racing fans.” :)

Monmouth is nearing the end of a 50-day meet at which purses were greatly increased via a total reduction of about 70 live Thoroughbred racing days this year in New Jersey. Through Aug. 22 (42 days), purses have averaged $797,929 a day, by far the highest in the country.

read more:
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/58539/monmouth-adjusts-purse-structure-for-fall

[The_Knight_Sky]

And before someone accelerates the http://i27.tinypic.com/2q9krau.gif meter, read on:

The meet was billed as the $1-million-a-day meet. In July, Kulina told The Blood-Horse that figure includes a per-start fee of $1,500 horse, payments to breeders and a workers’ compensation program, and money for the local horsemen’s group. When those funds are deducted, daily overnight purses are about on target.

[Brogan]

What is the payout for the also rans during the fall portion of the meet going to be?

Is it reverting to 1% of the purse?
Are they maintaining the $1500?
Is it something inbetween?

[lamboguy]

paying a guy $1500 to run last does this game no good. it cheapens up the game. it brought george iacavachi over to monmouth this year to scoop up his $1500 with an overmatched horse to run last. he owns his own truck, and will go anywhere to get that type of money without training his horses that he probably got for free.

this country is not a welfare state yet

[Brogan]

paying a guy $1500 to run last does this game no good. it cheapens up the game. it brought george iacavachi over to monmouth this year to scoop up his $1500 with an overmatched horse to run last. he owns his own truck, and will go anywhere to get that type of money without training his horses that he probably got for free.

this country is not a welfare state yet
Its up to the race office and the state vet to keep the rats out. I've heard that they quietly "banned" a few horses from entering. It does appear they could step that up a bit.

The goal of the $1500 was obvious...they wanted full fields. They got it.

The benefit of the $1500 to the little guys (those that were racing to win, not to collect easy money) was pretty good too. I suppose the benefit to the scumbags just entereing rats to get $1500 was even better.

[mannyberrios]

paying a guy $1500 to run last does this game no good. it cheapens up the game. it brought george iacavachi over to monmouth this year to scoop up his $1500 with an overmatched horse to run last. he owns his own truck, and will go anywhere to get that type of money without training his horses that he probably got for free.

this country is not a welfare state yet:1: Not yet!

[Tom]

paying a guy $1500 to run last does this game no good. it cheapens up the game. it brought george iacavachi over to monmouth this year to scoop up his $1500 with an overmatched horse to run last. he owns his own truck, and will go anywhere to get that type of money without training his horses that he probably got for free.

this country is not a welfare state yet

Bingo. And rewarding the bottom of the barrel horses with huge purses is not great deal either. I see not a lot of difference between Monmouth and Penn National, aside from the stakes, and I would rather ( and do ) play Penn National.

[Hanover1]

The title of the thread is amusing considering the track is losing its ass.......

[RXB]

... you mean a$$...

[Robert Goren]

More NJ taxpayer going down the drain.

[onefast99]

More NJ taxpayer going down the drain.
Money already allocated from the casino revenue fund as a payoff so the slots wouldn't be at MP or the Meadowlands none of which came out of the taxpayers pockets. :eek:

[Robert Goren]

Money already allocated from the casino revenue fund as a payoff so the slots wouldn't be at MP or the Meadowlands none of which came out of the taxpayers pockets. :eek: As usual the Monmouth mis-information spreaders are at work again. They have already blown through the casino payoff money and are now working on tax payer funds. Only a race race track in NJ can get 30 million dollars of free money to cover their expenses for the year and figure out away to lose almost 11 million dollars on top of it. A million and half more than they lost last year when they got no free money. The horse people were the big winners here. The betters and the taxpayers took it in the shorts.(anyone care to guess which one you are.) So what else is new?

[Rutgers]

As usual the Monmouth mis-information spreaders are at work again. They have already blown through the casino payoff money and are now working on tax payer funds. Only a race race track in NJ can get 30 million dollars of free money to cover their expenses for the year and figure out away to lose almost 11 million dollars on top of it. A million and half more than they lost last year when they got no free money. The horse people were the big winners here. The betters and the taxpayers took it in the shorts.(anyone care to guess which one you are.) So what else is new?

I am as big of a critic of the NJSEA and the State of NJ as anyone, however to say MP blew thru $30 million in “free money” is not accurate. The $30 million was a purse supplement. MP could not use the money anyway they pleased or to cover expenses, they had to distribute the money to the horsemen, mainly thru purses. And this was not the only year that had the supplement, but the third year of a three year deal. There was also a prior deal as well.

As for the $11 million loss, I would take that with a grain of salt. I see the number used quite a bit, but I don’t know what is and is not included in that number. (The NJSEA is pretty large and complex, plus keep in mind it is a state agency.)

Also, the racing industry in NJ pays over $60 million in state and local taxes, so I really don’t understand the logic in complaining about paying $11 million dollars out (assuming it is $11 million) in order to bring in over $60 million. And that’s just taxes paid directly from the racing industry. Racing in NJ also provides 7,000 jobs and a positive economic impact of $780 million to state.

I will be the first one to tell you the racetracks and the NJSEA are poorly run, but to categorize the racetracks has a financial drain on NJ and NJ tax payers is not fair or accurate.

[Robert Goren]

They are shutting down and selling the Meadowlands next year and are either going to lease, sell or shut down Monmouth park. No matter what, the state of NJ is out of the race track business. This governor is not going throw any more money at the race tracks despite all the crying coming from the horsemen. The jig is up and no amount of Arthur Anderson style of bookkeeping is going to change that.

[David-LV]

They are shutting down and selling the Meadowlands next year and are either going to lease, sell or shut down Monmouth park. No matter what, the state of NJ is out of the race track business. This governor is not going throw any more money at the race tracks despite all the crying coming from the horsemen. The jig is up and no amount of Arthur Anderson style of bookkeeping is going to change that.

Robert, Robert, Robert,

I have no idea where you get this great insight and knowledge about New Jersey racing.

You my friend have ZERO information on what is going to happen in New Jersey so why don't you give us and the people that have their life invested in Jersey racing a break with all this phony BS.

What do you have against New Jersey, did you get a bad New Jersey tomato or something.

Think positive and you may discover that a lot more winning days may show on your calender.

There will be racing at The Meadowlands & Monmouth long after most of us have gone to that great race track in the sky.

If you ever come to Las Vegas look me up and I will personally take you under my wing and put a lot of plus days in your column.

After a slow start in which I did not lose faith I ended up having another giant day today both at Del Mar which I rarely play and Saratoga, wish you were here to share in a very positive day.

You would have completely forgotten all about New Jersey racing and would only be counting the greenbacks.

__________
David-LV

[alhattab]

I am as big of a critic of the NJSEA and the State of NJ as anyone, however to say MP blew thru $30 million in “free money” is not accurate. The $30 million was a purse supplement. MP could not use the money anyway they pleased or to cover expenses, they had to distribute the money to the horsemen, mainly thru purses. And this was not the only year that had the supplement, but the third year of a three year deal. There was also a prior deal as well.

As for the $11 million loss, I would take that with a grain of salt. I see the number used quite a bit, but I don’t know what is and is not included in that number. (The NJSEA is pretty large and complex, plus keep in mind it is a state agency.)

Also, the racing industry in NJ pays over $60 million in state and local taxes, so I really don’t understand the logic in complaining about paying $11 million dollars out (assuming it is $11 million) in order to bring in over $60 million. And that’s just taxes paid directly from the racing industry. Racing in NJ also provides 7,000 jobs and a positive economic impact of $780 million to state.

I will be the first one to tell you the racetracks and the NJSEA are poorly run, but to categorize the racetracks has a financial drain on NJ and NJ tax payers is not fair or accurate.

We'd all be well-served by having posters as articulate, fact-based and rational as you are. The accounting behind the losses is a complete mystery. Allocated expenses, depreciating the turf course renovations for the BC, etc. could be in there. It is impossible to say and the number may be manipulated for political reasons also. For all we know it would be bigger using "traditional" accounting standards. Bottom line is we don't know. In addition to what you said, the Woodbridge OTB makes something like $4-$5 million and that is not included in the track operating losses.

[andtheyreoff]

As usual the Monmouth mis-information spreaders are at work again. They have already blown through the casino payoff money and are now working on tax payer funds. Only a race race track in NJ can get 30 million dollars of free money to cover their expenses for the year and figure out away to lose almost 11 million dollars on top of it. A million and half more than they lost last year when they got no free money. The horse people were the big winners here. The betters and the taxpayers took it in the shorts.(anyone care to guess which one you are.) So what else is new?



They are shutting down and selling the Meadowlands next year and are either going to lease, sell or shut down Monmouth park. No matter what, the state of NJ is out of the race track business. This governor is not going throw any more money at the race tracks despite all the crying coming from the horsemen. The jig is up and no amount of Arthur Anderson style of bookkeeping is going to change that.

I wonder how many posts this guy would have made this year if Monmouth hadn't gone with their new program. I'm thinking he would have made about, ehh, 30?

[Robert Goren]

All I know about NJ racing is from what I read in the NJ papers. I have not seen an article recently that will lead me to believe that the state government of NJ will be in the race track business next year. If you have, perhaps you could post a link.
As for only 30 post out side of NJ of racing, obviously you don't read any threads outside of NJ racing or you would know how utterly ridiculous that statement is.:lol:

[David-LV]

All I know about NJ racing is from what I read in the NJ papers. I have not seen an article recently that will lead me to believe that the state government of NJ will be in the race track business next year. If you have, perhaps you could post a link.
As for only 30 post out side of NJ of racing, obviously you don't read any threads outside of NJ racing or you would know how utterly ridiculous that statement is.:lol:


Do you always believe what is written by the bias, know nothing so called press?

__________
David-LV

[Tom]

As opposed to unidentified internet sources with well known biases? :lol:

[onefast99]

They are shutting down and selling the Meadowlands next year and are either going to lease, sell or shut down Monmouth park. No matter what, the state of NJ is out of the race track business. This governor is not going throw any more money at the race tracks despite all the crying coming from the horsemen. The jig is up and no amount of Arthur Anderson style of bookkeeping is going to change that.
Please look at the numerous threads that have been started on MP this year and read them thoroughly before putting your foot in your mouth constantly. MP will have racing once again in 2011 please read Senate bill 1811 www.njleg.state.nj.us/2010/Bills/S2000/1811_S1.HTM (http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2010/Bills/S2000/1811_S1.HTM) . The Meadowlands will also have racing but not t-breds as the NJSEA will once again have MP carry that honor.

[onefast99]

All I know about NJ racing is from what I read in the NJ papers. I have not seen an article recently that will lead me to believe that the state government of NJ will be in the race track business next year. If you have, perhaps you could post a link.




As for only 30 post out side of NJ of racing, obviously you don't read any threads outside of NJ racing or you would know how utterly ridiculous that statement is.:lol:
www.njleg.state.nj.us/2010/Bills/S2000/1811_S1.HTM (http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2010/Bills/S2000/1811_S1.HTM)

Enjoy!

[wonatthewire1]

paying a guy $1500 to run last does this game no good. it cheapens up the game. it brought george iacavachi over to monmouth this year to scoop up his $1500 with an overmatched horse to run last. he owns his own truck, and will go anywhere to get that type of money without training his horses that he probably got for free.

this country is not a welfare state yet


Manuel Berrios

[Kelso]

Money already allocated from the casino revenue fund as a payoff so the slots wouldn't be at MP or the Meadowlands

You persist in erroneously asserting that the payoff prevented something (slots at MED/MTH) that would otherwise have happened. It most definately would NOT have otherwise happened ... at least not without several YEARS worth of political back-rooming, serious opposition from the anti-gambling crowd and TWO constitutional amendment referenda.

The AC casinos simply made a business decision three years ago (when the casinos were MUCH more profitable than they are now) that it was cheaper and easier to bribe the horsemen than it would be to POSSIBLY have to grease many more political palms and spend several years worth of heavy-duty lobbying cash.

Once again ... MED/MTH slots have NEVER been assured, or even anything more than the most remote of possibilities. The $30 million payoff was simply to shut up the horse whiners who are unwilling to compete on their own ... UNSUBSIDIZED ... against casino gambling and any other businesess.

[Indulto]

... The AC casinos simply made a business decision three years ago (when the casinos were MUCH more profitable than they are now) that it was cheaper and easier to bribe the horsemen than it would be to POSSIBLY have to grease many more political palms and spend several years worth of heavy-duty lobbying cash.

Once again ... MED/MTH slots have NEVER been assured, or even anything more than the most remote of possibilities. The $30 million payoff was simply to shut up the horse whiners who are unwilling to compete on their own ... UNSUBSIDIZED ... against casino gambling and any other businesess.5x,
Good to see you back and it only took me 4 mos. to notice. ;)

[Robert Goren]

www.njleg.state.nj.us/2010/Bills/S2000/1811_S1.HTM (http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2010/Bills/S2000/1811_S1.HTM)

Enjoy! No where does it state that there will be racing at monmouth park in 2011. The governor of NJ has publicly stated that monmouth park will be leased in 2011 and that the state of NJ will not be operating it. I think it is highly unlikely anyone will lease it, but maybe there is a sucker out there. The only hope I see for the track to operate in 2011 is a horseman's group takes it over. That is how the racetrack here in Lincoln, Ne has stayed open. So far I have read about any horseman's group in NJ willing to step up to the plate. I guess time will tell.

[onefast99]

No where does it state that there will be racing at monmouth park in 2011. The governor of NJ has publicly stated that monmouth park will be leased in 2011 and that the state of NJ will not be operating it. I think it is highly unlikely anyone will lease it, but maybe there is a sucker out there. The only hope I see for the track to operate in 2011 is a horseman's group takes it over. That is how the racetrack here in Lincoln, Ne has stayed open. So far I have read about any horseman's group in NJ willing to step up to the plate. I guess time will tell.
2011 was granted after that it is up in the air. The senate bill was passed in May prior to Christis statements on shutting down the tracks(July).

[onefast99]

You persist in erroneously asserting that the payoff prevented something (slots at MED/MTH) that would otherwise have happened. It most definately would NOT have otherwise happened ... at least not without several YEARS worth of political back-rooming, serious opposition from the anti-gambling crowd and TWO constitutional amendment referenda.

The AC casinos simply made a business decision three years ago (when the casinos were MUCH more profitable than they are now) that it was cheaper and easier to bribe the horsemen than it would be to POSSIBLY have to grease many more political palms and spend several years worth of heavy-duty lobbying cash.

Once again ... MED/MTH slots have NEVER been assured, or even anything more than the most remote of possibilities. The $30 million payoff was simply to shut up the horse whiners who are unwilling to compete on their own ... UNSUBSIDIZED ... against casino gambling and any other businesess.
The New Jersey landscape is so hard to read," said Hayward. "Clearly, Atlantic City has a lot of stick. Monmouth is doing this program with enhanced purses, $20 of the $50 million they are giving out is coming from a casino subsidy. I think that is in return for not pursuing any gaming. They have gone from 140 dates to 50 dates this summer. The purses have gone up dramatically. They are not running any more thoroughbreds at the Meadowlands which they did before, they are going to run a weekend meet through the fall at Monmouth, which they tried in the past. So far, it looks like they have had some good success in terms of their handle and so forth. Whether they can sustain the purse level, that is a whole other question."

This is from the Hall Institute news letter published June 3rd 2010, but then again you are probably right, the monies given to the racing industry had nothing to do with the remote possibility that the NJSEA would put slots in at MP or the Meadowlands!

[Kelso]

This is from the Hall Institute news letter published June 3rd 2010, but then again you are probably right, the monies given to the racing industry had nothing to do with the remote possibility that the NJSEA would put slots in at MP or the Meadowlands!


Unlike your repeated references to the selfish horsemen "getting" slots at their captive tracks, Hayward-from-Hall got it correct when he wrote about them "pursuing" the big, easy and entirely unearned slot loot they have so long coveted. ENORMOUS difference there, wouldn't you agree?

And I don't recall ANYONE ... least of all myself ... ever positing that the 3-year squeeze of casino cash had "nothing to do" with (that remotest of possibilities) slots at NJ tracks. Have you been clouding your memory with MTH press releases again?

To the contrary, just a few posts back I had to remind you that the casinos simply determined it would be cheaper to buy off the horse industry than it would be to beef up their payoffs to the NJ political industry and then have to compound that with several years of intensified lobbying expenses.

The cash spread around to the socialists in the NJ horse industry these past several years ... cash that could just as easily, and much more appropriately, have wound up in the PUBLIC treasury ... had EVERYTHING to do with slots. I have never suggested otherwise.


Hi back at ya, Indulto. Didn't want to get back in the fight, but you know the routine about unchallenged lies/untruths being repeated often enough. (Sooner, rather than later, greedy horse interests will start to believe their own nonsense.) I keep trying to get out, but they keep dragging me back! :lol:

[onefast99]

It is more evident now then ever before that the NJ casinos must increase their presence in the state by expanding as Parx and Delaware along with the Sands in Bethlehem Pa created unforseen competition for those diminishing gambling dollars. VLT's at the Meadowlands and MP would bring in that much needed additional revenue to NJ. For years the racing industry in NJ has generated profits that went to state programs and now the racing industry needs a boost and the answer is slots.

[onefast99]

Many (most?) Jersey politicians are crooks, but not all of them are stupid, too. They know that North Jersey residents aren't what keep AC afloat. They also know that most North (and central) Jersey residents would rather not travel to NYC or Philly to shoot their bankrolls.

So where would a Northern NJ resident go to shoot their bankroll? The Bahamas?

Poll shows N.J. residents support expanding slot machines to racetracks

Published: Monday, June 14, 2010, 11:24 AM Updated: Monday, June 14, 2010




The majority of New Jersey voters would support the addition of slot machines to the Meadowlands and other racetracks around the state, according to a Fairleigh Dickinson University's PublicMind poll released today (http://publicmind.fdu.edu/betonslots/).

When asked specifically about expanding slot machine gaming to the Meadowlands, those surveyed backed the move 52 percent to 37 percent. The poll numbers showed that adding slot machines to racetracks was more popular among residents of central and northern New Jersey.


I guess you didn't see this one.;)

[Canarsie]

Lets get to the facts here.

Christie needs Sweeney, Sweeney needs northern NJ to keep his assembly speaker post, this is politics. After his latest fiasco over education he's not shutting down Monmouth no matter what is being said. Take a look at the poll numbers that onefast posted there hasn't been a negative peep since then. When you go against the will of the people one thing almost always happens just wait till November.

I will say one thing. I wish I had the kahunas to comment on Nebraska politics like Mr. Goren does on NJ though he doesn't doesn't have a clue. :bang:

I'm sure the NFL would make the Mara's and Woody Johnson move if sports betting was legalized in NJ. :lol: They only built a brand new stadium this year in the largest market in the USA with PSL's. :bang: :bang: :bang:

[onefast99]

Lets get to the facts here.

Christie needs Sweeney, Sweeney needs northern NJ to keep his assembly speaker post, this is politics. After his latest fiasco over education he's not shutting down Monmouth no matter what is being said. Take a look at the poll numbers that onefast posted there hasn't been a negative peep since then. When you go against the will of the people one thing almost always happens just wait till November.

I will say one thing. I wish I had the kahunas to comment on Nebraska politics like Mr. Goren does on NJ though he doesn't doesn't have a clue. :bang:

I'm sure the NFL would make the Mara's and Woody Johnson move if sports betting was legalized in NJ. :lol: They only built a brand new stadium this year in the largest market in the USA with PSL's. :bang: :bang: :bang:
– The New Jersey equine industry is valued at $4 billion and generates $1.1 billion ($780 million from racing) annually in positive impact on the state economy.

– It is responsible for 13,000 jobs, more than half of which are generated by racing-related interests such as race tracks and horse breeding and training facilities.

– A total of 176,000 acres support equine facilities in New Jersey. Approximately 96,000 of these acres are directly related to equine activities. Equine animals and operations account for 42,500 horses housed in New Jersey at 7,200 facilities. Of this total, 12,500 (nearly 30 percent) are in racing-related activities.

[Kelso]

VLT's at the Meadowlands and MP would bring in that much needed additional revenue to NJ.

Surely they would. And so long as all that revenue goes into the general treasury ... as opposed to the wallets of selfish horsemen ... I'm all for it. Let MTH and MED get their windfall profits from the overpriced hot dogs they can sell to the slot zombies.



For years the racing industry in NJ has generated profits that went to state programs and now the racing industry needs a boost and the answer is slots.

That's no different than it is for any other business in the state that pays taxes and hires employees. For that matter, it's no different than for any individual who has taxable income or owns property ... keeping in mind that horse farms pay virtually NO local property taxes.

BTW, I'm not objecting to the substantially lower valuations assessed against NJ farm land. Just don't spout that nonsense that the farm owners are conducting their operations for the benefit of anyone other than themselves. (Nor should they.) They're doing it because they enjoy and/or profit from it.

They are decidly NOT doing what they do for the purpose of providing jobs or maintaining open space. As soon as their personal or business circumstances warrant, they'll each sell their land to the highest bidders and be outta here.

If horsemen "need a boost," it's due to their own incompetent management of their own industry.

The residents, and especially the taxpayers, of New Jersey (as of every other state) owe the horsemen nothing.

[Kelso]

Poll shows N.J. residents support expanding slot machines to racetracks

<snip>

When asked specifically about expanding slot machine gaming to the Meadowlands, those surveyed backed the move 52 percent to 37 percent.


I guess you didn't see this one.;)


What I've missed is a poll asking the slot zombies ... as well as the non-gamblers of the state ... if they'd rather have the windfall go into the state treasury or into the wallets of selfish horsemen. How do you think that poll would turn out? (Or would you much prefer to not think about it?)

[Robert Goren]

Lets get to the facts here.

Christie needs Sweeney, Sweeney needs northern NJ to keep his assembly speaker post, this is politics. After his latest fiasco over education he's not shutting down Monmouth no matter what is being said. Take a look at the poll numbers that onefast posted there hasn't been a negative peep since then. When you go against the will of the people one thing almost always happens just wait till November.

I will say one thing. I wish I had the kahunas to comment on Nebraska politics like Mr. Goren does on NJ though he doesn't doesn't have a clue. :bang:

I'm sure the NFL would make the Mara's and Woody Johnson move if sports betting was legalized in NJ. :lol: They only built a brand new stadium this year in the largest market in the USA with PSL's. :bang: :bang: :bang:Feel free to jump in right in and comment on Nebraska politics. It is easy, if you remember one thing. If they are doing something, it is a dumb idea. If it is a good idea, they won't touch with a ten foot poll. I have not seen anything that makes me think that NJ politics is any different. I have seen a lot of wishful thinking in the NJ posts starting last winter when the plan to use casino to boost purses was introduced. I stated it no chance of attracting enough new handle to make NJ racing profitable. I was repeatedly told I was wrong, but I wasn't. I have repeated what has been said in the NJ papers about the future of NJ racing and get ripped for it. I would love to NJ racing continue, the picture looks very bleak. No matter what some of the posters think, they are not going to get slots. The politics are not there for it to happen and that is the cold hard truth. NJ is not going to get sports betting any time soon either. It is against Federal law and that is not going change either any time soon. It doesn't matter whether I am for it or not. NJ racing had a chance to save its self this year, but they made some bad decisions and are now paying the price for them. What is really sad is some of the posters here don't want admit that. That kind of bullheadness does bode well for horse racing in general in this country.

[David-LV]

If horsemen "need a boost," it's due to their own incompetent management of their own industry.

The residents, and especially the taxpayers, of New Jersey (as of every other state) owe the horsemen nothing.

If Atlantic City "need a boost," it's due to their own incompetent management and greed of their own industry.

Do the residents, and especially the taxpayers, of New Jersey owe the greed mongers of Atlantic City anything? That is the real question.

The racetracks in New Jersey just want to play the game on equal footing with the slum lords and crooks of Atlantic city.

What I don't understand is why there is so much hate towards racing in New Jersey on this board by certain people when they should be embracing a sport we all love.

_________
David-LV

[onefast99]

What I've missed is a poll asking the slot zombies ... as well as the non-gamblers of the state ... if they'd rather have the windfall go into the state treasury or into the wallets of selfish horsemen. How do you think that poll would turn out? (Or would you much prefer to not think about it?)
When Democrats meet again next month at the Meadowlands to discuss gaming issues, they ought to explore this question:

Why haven't New Jersey's ailing racetracks - which have been clamoring for slot machines and casino-style gambling - done more to help themselves? Specifically, why have they sat so long on 12 of 15 off-track wagering licenses, despite the fact that the revenues from those OTW facilities could help prop up New Jersey's racing industry?

That question is now being asked by state Sen. Sean T. Kean, R-Monmouth. In a recent letter to state Attorney General Paula Dowd, Kean asked Dowd to investigate the failure of an OTW authorized since 2003 to open in Cherry Hill. The facility was supposed to be built by the partnership that owns Freehold Raceway - Penn National Gaming and Greenwood Racing Inc.

Kean is also asking Dowd to make recommendations on how to move the state's OTW program forward. State Assemblyman John Burzichelli, D-Gloucester, raised a similar issue this spring when he introduced a bill that would require OTW licenses to be put up for bid if they were not used by racetracks.

The state agency that owns the Meadowlands and Monmouth racetracks has been sitting on eight of its nine licenses for years.

Pressure is intense to put slots or a full casino at the Meadowlands in order to attract people to the facility. And for years, Atlantic City's casino industry was strong-armed into pouring tens of millions of dollars annually into subsidizing racetracks.

Yet the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority has opened only one of the OTW facilities authorized nearly a decade ago, in Woodbridge. Finally, in March, the NJSEA said it would use the second of its licenses to open a $16 million facility in Bayonne, and it promised to open one parlor every year after that.

Well, good. But what's been holding that process up?

If racing is to survive, it needs to be self-supporting. Opening those OTW facilities might be one way to achieve that goal.

When Democrats met in Atlantic City earlier this month, the day-long summit appeared to be more a platform for partisanship and criticism of Gov. Chris Christie's gaming plan than a constructive exploration of issues and viable solutions.

Racing interests and some northern New Jersey lawmakers continue to insist on a casino in the Meadowlands - despite Christie's opposition and the fact that state Senate President Stephen Sweeney, D-Gloucester, has flatly said he won't post such a bill.

When they meet again next month, Democrats intent on saving the racing industry ought to focus on how racing can stand on its own - without subsidies and without undermining Atlantic City's casino industry.

Here is one reason you failed to mention on how the NJ racing industry can support itself, and this has nothing to do with "selfish horseman" or taking tax dollars away from the state treasury. I agree with you on the premise that the racetracks need to be self sufficient, but abruptly ending racing in NJ without at least trying to find a revenue generating stream isn't the answer either.

[The_Knight_Sky]

=

What I don't understand is why there is so much hate towards racing
in New Jersey on this board by certain people when they should be
embracing a sport we all love.




David -

Could it be a sudden onset of inferiority complex?
Their favorite track does not stack up to the new Monmouth.
Or an obvious failure to prepare for the Elite Summer Meet?

That was the way I felt when Tampa Bay Downs signal became very popular
on the boards, yet all I did was prepare for Gulfstream Park.
I didn't change with the times.

Tampa Bay Downs' ascension to top flight racetrack has coincided
with incremental reductions in their own takeout rates.
Something the Californians could learn from BTW.

It's never too late to change course.
I'm preparing for Tampa this winter already.
Now I know tell the difference between a Benny Feliciano, Miguel Feliciano and even Jose' Feliciano. :D

[Robert Goren]

If Atlantic City "need a boost," it's due to their own incompetent management and greed of their own industry.

Do the residents, and especially the taxpayers, of New Jersey owe the greed mongers of Atlantic City anything? That is the real question.

The racetracks in New Jersey just want to play the game on equal footing with the slum lords and crooks of Atlantic city.

What I don't understand is why there is so much hate towards racing in New Jersey on this board by certain people when they should be embracing a sport we all love.

_________
David-LVI don't hate the idea of horse racing in NJ. I just hate the way it has been run. What I can not understand is why you are embracing ideas which failed over and over again. Do you really want horse racing to go out of business. Well that where they are headed if they don't change their ways fast. I am old and in bad health, but it is very well possible that I will live to see a time when there is no horse racing any where in the country. That is especially true in places that try to bail it out with slots. Racinos everywhere are looking to dump the horse racing end of the business. It is only a matter of time before one of them figures out how to do it. Once the right model is discovered, then it good bye horse racing for all racinos. I know every blames Philly Park for NJ's troubles, but do you think for second they would be racing there if they were not forced to have it to keep the slots.

[onefast99]

I don't hate the idea of horse racing in NJ. I just hate the way it has been run. What I can not understand is why you are embracing ideas which failed over and over again. Do you really want horse racing to go out of business. Well that where they are headed if they don't change their ways fast. I am old and in bad health, but it is very well possible that I will live to see a time when there is no horse racing any where in the country. That is especially true in places that try to bail it out with slots. Racinos everywhere are looking to dump the horse racing end of the business. It is only a matter of time before one of them figures out how to do it. Once the right model is discovered, then it good bye horse racing for all racinos. I know every blames Philly Park for NJ's troubles, but do you think for second they would be racing there if they were not forced to have it to keep the slots.
Parx(Philly Park)is doing very well. They added a nice horsemans area on the first floor as well as a decent purse increase to start off the fall season that began on August 30th. They worked on the track condition for the past 3 weeks filling in depressed areas of limestone by using a system that measures track depressions without having to pull the track surface back. I know you are a big "reduce the takeout" proponent and I give you a lot of credit for not waivering one bit on that topic. NJ wants to keep racing and the fact that they took the initiative to change the format means they are trying. Give credit to those who put the meet together and once the final numbers come out lets see if this was a game changer.

[The_Knight_Sky]

NJ wants to keep racing and the fact that they took the initiative to change the format means they are trying.

Give credit to those who put the meet together and once the final numbers come out lets see if this was a game changer.




There's nothing wrong with Robert Goren driving home the point
of lowering the takeout rates in ALL the pools, ALL of the time. :ThmbUp:

The Elite Summer Meet was certainly a "Game Saver" if not a "Game Changer".
We'll be waiting for the allocation of next year's NJ racing dates
and the purse structure at each venue in the coming months and that was the point of the meet all along. Save NJ Thoroughbred Racing.

The Harness folks would do well to coordinate something like this also
between The Big M and Freehold. That said, I'd like to see Atlantic City racecourse expand on its successful spring program this year.

The NJ Racing Commission must pull the right strings to get Greenwood Racing
to use their Racing License. That will be the key for next year.

[alhattab]

When Democrats meet again next month at the Meadowlands to discuss gaming issues, they ought to explore this question:

Why haven't New Jersey's ailing racetracks - which have been clamoring for slot machines and casino-style gambling - done more to help themselves? Specifically, why have they sat so long on 12 of 15 off-track wagering licenses, despite the fact that the revenues from those OTW facilities could help prop up New Jersey's racing industry?

That question is now being asked by state Sen. Sean T. Kean, R-Monmouth. In a recent letter to state Attorney General Paula Dowd, Kean asked Dowd to investigate the failure of an OTW authorized since 2003 to open in Cherry Hill. The facility was supposed to be built by the partnership that owns Freehold Raceway - Penn National Gaming and Greenwood Racing Inc.

Here is one reason you failed to mention on how the NJ racing industry can support itself, and this has nothing to do with "selfish horseman" or taking tax dollars away from the state treasury. I agree with you on the premise that the racetracks need to be self sufficient, but abruptly ending racing in NJ without at least trying to find a revenue generating stream isn't the answer either.

The OTW issue is a huge issue that must be addressed. Part of the reason NY is so big is because of the in-state handle it generates. NJ could do similar on smaller scale, with all the $ going to support racing rather than bloated, unnecessary OTB infrastructure that NY has. Woodbridge and Tom's River are great. Woodbridge makes something like $4-$5 million. These were good locations for a variety of reasons, but they did cannibalize the on-track action a bit. Kean is right to push on this. In a state where half the decision to do anything depends on traffic, having remote outposts could be good growth opportunities.

[Canarsie]

The OTW issue is a huge issue that must be addressed. Part of the reason NY is so big is because of the in-state handle it generates. NJ could do similar on smaller scale, with all the $ going to support racing rather than bloated, unnecessary OTB infrastructure that NY has. Woodbridge and Tom's River are great. Woodbridge makes something like $4-$5 million. These were good locations for a variety of reasons, but they did cannibalize the on-track action a bit. Kean is right to push on this. In a state where half the decision to do anything depends on traffic, having remote outposts could be good growth opportunities.


There's a huge problem with the OTW's and that is most towns don't want them. I wrote NJSEA over a year ago and somehow got on their cc list for a few emails. :eek: They had the police chief on their side in one town, he told them what do, power point presentation well done, and it was shot down. The place was off Rt. 22 would have been a great location.

Also there can't be any in Monmouth County that is plain stupid. I live on the Middlesex/Monmouth border and there are some great sites in northen Monmouth that could be used except it's against the law. :bang: Sheesh it's run by NJSEA what's the problem?

Favorites in Woodbridge is mobbed the only time I ever go near there is for a PM racing form if I'm in the neighborhood. You can't get a seat in the joint it's a success story but still resisted by many towns for some reason. Bayonne would be huge but now they say if the Meadowlands closes it won't be completed.

[onefast99]

There's a huge problem with the OTW's and that is most towns don't want them. I wrote NJSEA over a year ago and somehow got on their cc list for a few emails. :eek: They had the police chief on their side in one town, he told them what do, power point presentation well done, and it was shot down. The place was off Rt. 22 would have been a great location.

Also there can't be any in Monmouth County that is plain stupid. I live on the Middlesex/Monmouth border and there are some great sites in northen Monmouth that could be used except it's against the law. :bang: Sheesh it's run by NJSEA what's the problem?

Favorites in Woodbridge is mobbed the only time I ever go near there is for a PM racing form if I'm in the neighborhood. You can't get a seat in the joint it's a success story but still resisted by many towns for some reason. Bayonne would be huge but now they say if the Meadowlands closes it won't be completed.
Greenbrook shot it down it was going to be where the now defunct Saturn dealership is. Further down rt 22 going west there are plenty of good spots for one. They also need one off rt 287 in the Oakland NJ area as well as one in the Phillipsburg area off rt 78. The fact that the NJSEA sat on this for so long is in a way a form of mis-management, and therefore privitization of the racetracks may be a good idea.

[Canarsie]

Greenbrook shot it down it was going to be where the now defunct Saturn dealership is. Further down rt 22 going west there are plenty of good spots for one. They also need one off rt 287 in the Oakland NJ area as well as one in the Phillipsburg area off rt 78. The fact that the NJSEA sat on this for so long is in a way a form of mis-management, and therefore privitization of the racetracks may be a good idea.

I'm not sticking up for NJSEA in any way but if you recall there was lots of opposition to Toms River before it opened also. Old Bridge would be a good spot also don't know why that hasn't been proposed.

[alhattab]

Can't put one in Oakland- Bergen County and similar to Monmouth not allowed there. The better location in Bergen would actually be Mahwah (take from Suffern OTB, which was a dump last time I was there 8 years ago or so and probably hasn't changed) and maybe Demarest.

Anyway, I just don't believe there aren't enough locations that would not face stiff opposition. My view is they aren't trying hard enough. God think of all the highways like 31, 10, 22, etc that probably have plenty of vacant space right now. If they're on highways who do these places bother? They can't be trying hard enough.

[The_Knight_Sky]

Bayonne would be huge but now they say
if the Meadowlands closes it won't be completed.




I'd rather see it at least three OTW's built.
One near Mahwah (or on the NY border).

And alhattab's right, The Pearl River, NY OTB's has always been a dump.
New Yorkers would cross surely cross the border for NJ type of an OTW.
Jersey does it right - without the surcharges.

At least two are needed west of Wayne/Paterson.
Perhaps one near the Pennsylvania border.

I'm not sure who is completely responsible for the delays,
but everyday that goes by is lost revenue for NJSEA, the horsemen and the state. Come on folks! Jiggy with it !!

I am a huge fan of the Woodbridge OTW. I see several tellers from the Meadowlands working there, the food and drinks while expensive is quite satisfying, the waitresses are lovely and even the BetJet machines eat vouchers much less than they do at the Meadowlands.

The New Jersey model of the Off Track Wagering / Sports Bar concept is something that hasn't gotten much attention as it should around the nation.
We do it the right way. Now we need more of it.

[alhattab]

I'd rather see it at least three OTW's built.
One near Mahwah (or on the NY border).

And alhattab's right, The Pearl River, NY OTB's has always been a dump.
New Yorkers would cross surely cross the border for NJ type of an OTW.
Jersey does it right - without the surcharges.

At least two are needed west of Wayne/Paterson.
Perhaps one near the Pennsylvania border.

I'm not sure who is completely responsible for the delays,
but everyday that goes by is lost revenue for NJSEA, the horsemen and the state. Come on folks! Jiggy with it !!

I am a huge fan of the Woodbridge OTW. I see several tellers from the Meadowlands working there, the food and drinks while expensive is quite satisfying, the waitresses are lovely and even the BetJet machines eat vouchers much less than they do at the Meadowlands.

The New Jersey model of the Off Track Wagering / Sports Bar concept is something that hasn't gotten much attention as it should around the nation.
We do it the right way. Now we need more of it.

One in Wayne is a no-brainer. Put it in the old Motor Vehicle, the old Mothers property or State Farm property on Rt. 23. Very accessible town from many locations, and many horseplayers already exist in the town (I grew up there and lived there as an adult for 10 years).

[onefast99]

One in Wayne is a no-brainer. Put it in the old Motor Vehicle, the old Mothers property or State Farm property on Rt. 23. Very accessible town from many locations, and many horseplayers already exist in the town (I grew up there and lived there as an adult for 10 years).
I would like to see one near me in the Bridgewater area where rts 22, 287, 202 and 206 intersect. There is plenty of commercial space available. I would venture to say that those who are involved in finding new locations are asleep at the wheel.

[Robert Goren]

OTWs or OTBs have a bad reputation. I remember chuckling to myself I heard some one on cable news arguing in favor of the Islamic Mosque near ground zero that there was X rated book store and an OTB already there.

[alhattab]

I would like to see one near me in the Bridgewater area where rts 22, 287, 202 and 206 intersect. There is plenty of commercial space available. I would venture to say that those who are involved in finding new locations are asleep at the wheel.

Christ Almighty you could probably drive around that area for an hour and find 10 suitable locations in a 5 mile radius. Another no-brainer. Isn't there a Linen's N Things or Circuit City store around?

I thought one aspect of the commission recommendations was to make approval of OTWs the same as other zoning/business approvals (I guess there is a separate process now).

[alhattab]

OTWs or OTBs have a bad reputation. I remember chuckling to myself I heard some one on cable news arguing in favor of the Islamic Mosque near ground zero that there was X rated book store and an OTB already there.

The NYC OTBs deserve it. They are sometimes in the midst of residential areas and there are some pretty shady people hanging around those joints. The crowd at the Woodbridge OTW isn't exactly filled with ministers but it isn't a bad crowd and the place is completely separated from any neighborhoods.

[Kelso]

If Atlantic City "need a boost," it's due to their own incompetent management and greed of their own industry.
Agreed.


Do the residents, and especially the taxpayers, of New Jersey owe the greed mongers of Atlantic City anything?
Nope.


The racetracks in New Jersey just want to play the game on equal footing with the slum lords and crooks of Atlantic city.

Good. Let 'em start paying more to the NJ treasury than they (actually the selfish horsemen) have been costing the taxpayers.

That cost, BTW, includes the $50 million that could/should have been paid to NJ rather than to the horse whiners over the past 3 years ... as well as the multimillion dollar package that preceded it ... and as well as the original cost of saving MTH when its founding horsemen were eagerly trying to sell it off many years ago.


What I don't understand is why there is so much hate towards racing in New Jersey on this board by certain people when they should be embracing a sport we all love.
Ahhh, the hate card ... that last refuge of handout-mongers whose demands are competely bereft of logic and reason. Been watchin' a lot of MSNBC, have ya?

[Kelso]

Here is one reason you failed to mention on how the NJ racing industry can support itself,
Why ever should you expect me to address how the industry can support itself - in NJ or anywhere else? YOU are the one making money off racing, not me!

The NJ racing industry, itself, is the reason it cannot support itself. That's YOUR problem. Don't try to make it mine.


but abruptly ending racing in NJ without at least trying to find a revenue generating stream isn't the answer either.
Nobody, of whom I'm aware, is trying to "end racing in NJ." Refusing to pay welfare is not the same as trying to end anything. The NJ racing industry, in contrast, has already provided for its own demise.

As far as revenue streams go, and rather than looking for something new, why not try improving upon what's already there by improving your product? You can ... VERY EASILY ... make a great start by:

- substantially reducing takeout
- not allowing a horse in the gate until wagering is closed
- not drugging your horses or tolerating others who do
- not carding fields of less than eight runners
- not abetting destruction of the breed by breeding/buying only speed
- not gouging customers for food and beverages
- not paying $1,500 (or anything else) for in-race workouts
- not tolerating, of jockeys or trainers, anything less than a complete effort to finish as well as possible in EVERY race
- not continuing free stalls for owners/trainers who repeatedly pull their runners from races in which they don't care for the competition
- encouraging more on-track wagering (more to keep for the horsemen, after all) with free parking/admission/programs ... see reducing takeout, above

You guys already have all you need to save your business. Just try using it as if you really were businessmen.

[onefast99]

- substantially reducing takeout
- not allowing a horse in the gate until wagering is closed
- not drugging your horses or tolerating others who do
- not carding fields of less than eight runners
- not abetting destruction of the breed by breeding/buying only speed
- not gouging customers for food and beverages
- not paying $1,500 (or anything else) for in-race workouts
- not tolerating, of jockeys or trainers, anything less than a complete effort to finish as well as possible in EVERY race
- not continuing free stalls for owners/trainers who repeatedly pull their runners from races in which they don't care for the competition
- encouraging more on-track wagering (more to keep for the horsemen, after all) with free parking/admission/programs ... see reducing takeout, above

You guys already have all you need to save your business. Just try using it as if you really were businessmen.

You bring up a lot of very good points. The $1500 per horse was an incentive to keep the fields at their maximum and it has proven its worth. One of my sore points with MP was and is the horrendous food. There are no "jersey"food vendors, like a Windmill or a Lighthouse Italian Ice stand or Kohrs frozen custard, why? Because those in charge decided on Aramark to run the food and the result is and always will be poor selections and high prices. I'm sure you knew that over this meet at MP there were a lot of food festivals, including a wine tasting, a bbq with micro brewery day(3 days)a crab cake cook-off and a food truck cook-off competition. The admission fees are another no-brainer. Drop them except in the clubhouse. Valet parking fees will always exist as it is a money maker at every track since it offers a service for some who may not be as mobile as others. MP is one of the few tracks where those who have their horses stabled there actually run them there without using those stalls as a drop off point for a further destination. Take-out is a huge issue that once someone actually reduces it more will follow.
But once again you bring up all the issues every track in the US is going thru and not one other track thus far has stepped up and made a drastic change like MP did. Give credit to those who have tried the end result may save a few tracks!

[Canarsie]

-
You guys already have all you need to save your business. Just try using it as if you really were businessmen.

There are no "jersey"food vendors, like a Windmill or a Lighthouse Italian Ice stand or Kohrs frozen custard, why? Because those in charge decided on Aramark to run the food and the result is and always will be poor selections and high prices. I'm sure you knew that over this meet at MP there were a lot of food festivals, including a wine tasting, a bbq with micro brewery day(3 days)a crab cake cook-off and a food truck cook-off competition. The admission fees are another no-brainer. Drop them except in the clubhouse. Valet parking fees will always exist as it is a money maker at every track since it offers a service for some who may not be as mobile as others.


Wow onefast that's a pretty good choice of 3 vendors that aren't expensive I'm getting hungry :)

[Canarsie]

OTWs or OTBs have a bad reputation. I remember chuckling to myself I heard some one on cable news arguing in favor of the Islamic Mosque near ground zero that there was X rated book store and an OTB already there.


Once again you are sticking your foot in your mouth. Favorites is a huge moneymaker, can get a very decent meal, tellers are ok if you use them. They actually serve food and liquor at your seat if you want. It's the model for every OTW. Not too many people if any wrote anything negative about it.

The problem is you can't get a seat in the place even on a Monday or Tuesday.

Why do you think NJSEA doesn't want to give it up if MP and M1 are privatized :bang:

[onefast99]

Wow onefast that's a pretty good choice of 3 vendors that aren't expensive I'm getting hungry :)
Saratoga does it the best, why can't MP just copy the food vendor plan they have and make everyone happy. This year on Haskell day the food in the clubhouse was pitiful, several of those at my table didn't eat the islands of prime rib and oceans of fat they served. We requested they take it off the final bill, they said no as the $65 per person charge was for the price of the seat. I don't frequent any of the food vendors at MP anymore except the independents when they do the food festivals. There is no excuse for the way that MP has run their food operation.

[onefast99]

Once again you are sticking your foot in your mouth. Favorites is a huge moneymaker, can get a very decent meal, tellers are ok if you use them. They actually serve food and liquor at your seat if you want. It's the model for every OTW. Not too many people if any wrote anything negative about it.

The problem is you can't get a seat in the place even on a Monday or Tuesday.

Why do you think NJSEA doesn't want to give it up if MP and M1 are privatized :bang:


The food vendor is Mcloones they are a top notch restaurant offering very good food. The crowds at Favorites are pretty tame, unlike the Seinfeld episode where Kramer is almost mugged after winning a $600 bet on pappanick.

[David-LV]

Good. Let 'em start paying more to the NJ treasury than they (actually the selfish horsemen) have been costing the taxpayers.

That cost, BTW, includes the $50 million that could/should have been paid to NJ rather than to the horse whiners over the past 3 years ... as well as the multimillion dollar package that preceded it ... and as well as the original cost of saving MTH when its founding horsemen were eagerly trying to sell it off many years ago.



Ahhh, the hate card ... that last refuge of handout-mongers whose demands are competely bereft of logic and reason. Been watchin' a lot of MSNBC, have ya?

The $50 million that the horse whiners received was a bribe not to pursue slot machines at the race tracks, so don't go blaming the horse whiners for trying to compete on equal footing with the states that surround them.

And about the hate card, I don't watch MSNBC at all or listen to any of that liberal garbage, I'm strictly a Fox, Savage, Levin, & Limbaugh American.

__________
David-LV

[alhattab]

The food vendor is Mcloones they are a top notch restaurant offering very good food. The crowds at Favorites are pretty tame, unlike the Seinfeld episode where Kramer is almost mugged after winning a $600 bet on pappanick.

The only good food is the Clam Chowder. That is fantastic. Everything else sucks.

Onefast you think McLoones is top notch? I mean I guess it is compared to the Aramark slop, and the sandwiches they serve up at Woodbride are pretty good, but I wouldn't go crazy at their restaurants on the Shrewsbury or in Pier Village.

[onefast99]

The only good food is the Clam Chowder. That is fantastic. Everything else sucks.

Onefast you think McLoones is top notch? I mean I guess it is compared to the Aramark slop, and the sandwiches they serve up at Woodbride are pretty good, but I wouldn't go crazy at their restaurants on the Shrewsbury or in Pier Village.
Just the food at favorites as compared to MP and even the Meadowlands I wouldn't go out of my way to head to Mcloones in Pier Village since Rooneys offers a much better menu.

[Canarsie]

The food vendor is Mcloones they are a top notch restaurant offering very good food. The crowds at Favorites are pretty tame, unlike the Seinfeld episode where Kramer is almost mugged after winning a $600 bet on pappanick.


Try getting into McLoone's on a summer weekend in Sea Bright and there's a long long wait. I have never seem it even semi crowded at Favorites when I go there. The bar does well though.

http://www.mcloones.com/rumrunner/index.php

[alhattab]

Just the food at favorites as compared to MP and even the Meadowlands I wouldn't go out of my way to head to Mcloones in Pier Village since Rooneys offers a much better menu.

Try Sirena or Avenue they both put McLoone's and Rooney's to shame.

[The Hawk]

Good. Let 'em start paying more to the NJ treasury than they (actually the selfish horsemen) have been costing the taxpayers.

Do you have any idea of the size of the tax breaks the casinos get?

[Kelso]

Do you have any idea of the size of the tax breaks the casinos get?

I'm not aware of them getting any tax breaks. However, they do benefit, in large measure I would guess, from infrastructure expansions and improvements in the general area ... primarily transportation related. I don't know to what degree, if any, those improvements have been partially funded with casino money.

On the flip side, a very large slice of casino revenue is taken for the ostensible purpose of redeveloping the rundown parts of Atlantic City. The cash has been paid into the fund designated by statute, but many (myself included) wonder where it has gone these past 30+ years. The town is still a dump.

[wonatthewire1]

Can't put one in Oakland- Bergen County and similar to Monmouth not allowed there. The better location in Bergen would actually be Mahwah (take from Suffern OTB, which was a dump last time I was there 8 years ago or so and probably hasn't changed) and maybe Demarest.

Anyway, I just don't believe there aren't enough locations that would not face stiff opposition. My view is they aren't trying hard enough. God think of all the highways like 31, 10, 22, etc that probably have plenty of vacant space right now. If they're on highways who do these places bother? They can't be trying hard enough.

Parisppany would probably be better with 80, 287, 10, 202 and 46 going through it.

Lots of office space and room too

Rockaway could be another

There was some talk of putting one up in Dover at one point in time. I'm over in Mendham so it wouldn't be too far. Can't stand going over to the MED though...would rather drive over to East Stroudsburg's OTB

[wonatthewire1]

I'm not aware of them getting any tax breaks. However, they do benefit, in large measure I would guess, from infrastructure expansions and improvements in the general area ... primarily transportation related. I don't know to what degree, if any, those improvements have been partially funded with casino money.

On the flip side, a very large slice of casino revenue is taken for the ostensible purpose of redeveloping the rundown parts of Atlantic City. The cash has been paid into the fund designated by statute, but many (myself included) wonder where it has gone these past 30+ years. The town is still a dump.

You can say "the town is still a dump" 30 more times, and still be short a few.

But I find most of the "popular" shore to be awful - Wildwood, Ocean City and Seaside are pretty bad.

[alhattab]

Parisppany would probably be better with 80, 287, 10, 202 and 46 going through it.

Lots of office space and room too

Rockaway could be another

There was some talk of putting one up in Dover at one point in time. I'm over in Mendham so it wouldn't be too far. Can't stand going over to the MED though...would rather drive over to East Stroudsburg's OTB

Parsippany- indeed. Perfect location. Absolute no brainer.

You hate going to Club Med and the traffic isn't even that bad (well, 46 in Wayne can get bad)- but nothing like coming Down the Shore for a Saturday at Monmouth