MLB or Little League WS. Whats better?

[Zippy Chippy]

For me its not even close. I could care less if i ever watch a major league baseball game again. The LLWS is so entertaining. They try their asses off.. Its great stuff!

[PhantomOnTour]

LLWS is losing its luster with me. I guess I started becoming dis-interested when ESPN began televising the regional games before they even get to the LLWS....overkill.

[OTM Al]

You live in fantasy land. These little kids should not be on TV like this. Besides, how do you feel about rampant cheating in LLWS play? The kids that are too old have such a big advantage they make the PED issue pale in comparison. Let the kids play their game but let them be kids, not celebrities.

[sonnyp]

You live in fantasy land. These little kids should not be on TV like this. Besides, how do you feel about rampant cheating in LLWS play? The kids that are too old have such a big advantage they make the PED issue pale in comparison. Let the kids play their game but let them be kids, not celebrities.


in 1954, schenectady, n.y. won the whole enchilada. the kids received the hero treatment including a parade in n.y.c.

a local sports writter wrote a book about the effect the experience had on this bunch of kids many years later. pretty interesting read, its title is "destiny's darlings".

[RaceBookJoe]

I have always enjoyed watching the LLWS, but no more than any MLB playoff game.

[Zippy Chippy]

how do you feel about rampant cheating in LLWS play?

Ya theres never been any cheating in the MLBs.

:lol:

[OTM Al]

Ya theres never been any cheating in the MLBs.

:lol:

You miss the point entirely

[bigmack]

You live in fantasy land. These little kids should not be on TV like this. Let the kids play their game but let them be kids, not celebrities.
I think I catch your drift but could you sell it a bit better? They're in the spotlight for a couple of months, how does that despoil them?

[JustRalph]

There's a kid playing 3rd base for the Hamilton Ohio team (Near Cincy) named
Brooks Robinson, no kidding........really....there is........

[Canadian]

a local sports writter wrote a book about the effect the experience had on this bunch of kids many years later. pretty interesting read, its title is "destiny's darlings".


Without giving away the book (I would like to track it down) was the experience largely positive, negative or mixed?

[newtothegame]

Personally, I love watching both. But, if I have to chose, I like the LLWS. The kids give so much in effort.
As for the spotlight and it affecting the kids...I don't think it hurts them as much as it helps them.
Some of these kids will NOT make the majors...college might even be a stretch. This is their WORLD series. I would not want to take it away from them.

[PhantomOnTour]

Okay, I watched this kid from Japan hit a homer in the last inning to give his team the lead and realized why I still like watching the LLWS. The look on his face was priceless. I could still do without all the televised regional games though.

Maybe I got soured a few years back by "...the memory of Almonte...Almonte..."

[kenwoodall2]

The cameras sure love LL foul balls!

[dav4463]

You live in fantasy land. These little kids should not be on TV like this. Besides, how do you feel about rampant cheating in LLWS play? The kids that are too old have such a big advantage they make the PED issue pale in comparison. Let the kids play their game but let them be kids, not celebrities.



I totally agree! I hate Little League being on TV. As a matter of fact, I hate seeing high school football or basketball on TV.

As a basketball referee, I've worked plenty of youth league games. I believe the bad parents and bad attitudes far outnumber the good ones. For the most part, it is a bunch of grownups living their unfulfilled lives through their children. Never mind that half the kids don't even want to play. If they want to play, let them, if not.....let them do something else and quit pushing them so hard.

Little League should be fun. It should be all about the kids. Play for a city championship or in a rural area...maybe play a couple of neighboring towns, but the travel across the country for Little League Baseball is ridiculous in my opinion.

For every good player, there is a "Bobby Hill" out there who needs a Dad like Hank to pull him out of the league when it stops being fun for the kid! That "King of the Hill" episode should be required viewing for every youth league parent!

[newtothegame]

I totally agree! I hate Little League being on TV. As a matter of fact, I hate seeing high school football or basketball on TV.

As a basketball referee, I've worked plenty of youth league games. I believe the bad parents and bad attitudes far outnumber the good ones. For the most part, it is a bunch of grownups living their unfulfilled lives through their children. Never mind that half the kids don't even want to play. If they want to play, let them, if not.....let them do something else and quit pushing them so hard.

Little League should be fun. It should be all about the kids. Play for a city championship or in a rural area...maybe play a couple of neighboring towns, but the travel across the country for Little League Baseball is ridiculous in my opinion.

For every good player, there is a "Bobby Hill" out there who needs a Dad like Hank to pull him out of the league when it stops being fun for the kid! That "King of the Hill" episode should be required viewing for every youth league parent!

Agree Dave!! My only question is who is to determine "what the kid wants"??
That right should be solely between a parent and their child. Hopefully the parent makes the right decision. There are parents (I know of one personally who was no far from the majors) who's kid plays LL ball. He pushes that kid to no end! And I feel for the kid...really I do. But, I also know its not for me to decide what is best for his child.

I am sure you see alot of this as a ref too.

But here's a thought...how many kids are in the BIGS that were pushed to no end and NOW thankful for it?

It's just to hard to determine as an "outsider". A parents responsibility should now and in the future remain the parents (outside of abuse and issues like that. We are talking sports here).

[Rookies]

Al, I think you're being a curmudgeon here.

While the intrusiveness and positioning of parents on kids is a growing issue and has been for some years, the LLWS does not, by necessity or existence, personify this. "Soccer/hockey Moms" can exist everywhere, but thankfully, they do not.

Most parents do not think there kid is going to be the next Babe/Gretzky/ LaBron/ Brady. And for those who instill in their kids pursuit of an ideal, there are huge plusses here. Even my son who plays hockey in Special Hockey International and will never, ever do any better, has learned the on ice skills of team work, hard work, patience and perseverance and the off ice ones of timeliness, punctuality, etc.

For those kids who actually want to make it to the bigs, here's a little real life anecdote. My neighbour's son has finally made it the NHL and played in the 2009 playoffs. One recent summer, he shot 2,000 pucks a day in his back yard! This fact, the parent enablers/ wannabees should know.

Also, I ended up at Alexandria Bay, NY on Sunday after the Spa. Happened to see a bit of the Saudi Arabia- Japan game, where the Saudi coach was pumping his fist after getting a call overturned at first base. Reality check time. His team was being mashed 7-0 at the time on the way to a 16-0 (thereabouts) massacre. Akin to a player getting a sack in the NFL and stlying it, when their team is down 28-0 in the second quarter. Idiotic and very foolish looking. To the coach's credit, he apologzed publicly after the commercial.

On the good side, about 18 years ago, I attended my first LLWS because my b-in-law's son was playing for Saudi. ( Note: for those unaware, almost all the Saudi kids are familymembers of U.S./ Canadian expatriates working there) Two years straight, they didn't win a game.

But we did! We stayed with the parents of the Saudi players and had a fabulous time. During the first year, I was with my son, my neighbour and his 2 boys at the end of a 10 day driving adventure to Myrtle Beach and back. When the attendant told him that the parking fee was $1, hot dogs $.50 and Hamburgers $1, he immediately got out of the car and yelled:" I LOVE AMERICA! " His kids spent the day, sliding down the hill, riding that train and mixing with all of my wife's family members on hand.

On the subject at hand, I don't recall any bitterness in defeat from either players or family members, just good natured cheering and rooting.

LLWS- CARRY ON!

[OTM Al]

I'm not so much concerned about the parents here. Just think kids that young should be able to play without the scrutiny. Further, I don't think it's as pure as many seem to. The pure crowd lost long before this stage and time and again we've seen the worst of this with outright cheating. As I said, a fourteen year old snuck into these teams is so far superior to the others than a pro on PEDs is to his. Many people feel that minor league ball is great to watch too. I've been and it can be a fun night out, but the level of play is far below the majors. No, if I want to watch a ball game, I want to see the best against the best and there is only one place for that.

[sonnyp]

Without giving away the book (I would like to track it down) was the experience largely positive, negative or mixed?


negative. google "destiny's darlings", it's there. i think you'll find it interesting.

[bigmack]

No, if I want to watch a ball game, I want to see the best against the best and there is only one place for that.
You got it. Japan.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/8_24_10_14_32_00.png

[OTM Al]

You got it. Japan.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/8_24_10_14_32_00.png

Ummm...no

[bigmack]

Ummm...no
Ummm..What about this roster? That would make quite a MLB team & they lost to Japan, South K & Venezuela.


http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/8_24_10_16_51_16.png

Anywho...You actually find no value in watching any sport unless it's at the top of the top level? That's peculiar.

[OTM Al]

Ummm..What about this roster? That would make quite a MLB team & they lost to Japan, South K & Venezuela.


http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/8_24_10_16_51_16.png

Anywho...You actually find no value in watching any sport unless it's at the top of the top level? That's peculiar.

Have a closer look at the pitching and rethink that statement. The best players in that department were lacking as teams would not allow it.

And yes, I don't waste my time on second rate product. Have too many other things to do in my life.

[bigmack]

Have a closer look at the pitching and rethink that statement. The best players in that department were lacking as teams would not allow it.

And yes, I don't waste my time on second rate product. Have too many other things to do in my life.
Admittedly, that roster was embarrassed by JPN, NK & VEN, and it was far from a slouch gathering representing the US.

I walk up the street and have a ball watchin' kids play ball.

Darn shame you have such high standards for what you're willing to spend your 'valuable time' with given the level of joy garnered by watching kids having a ball.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2008/0820/pg2_ap_tomsriver_300.jpg

To each his own.

(I enjoyed your chronicle of SAR and suspect you might see me next year)

[Zippy Chippy]

ESPN top 10 today was all little league. Try to catch it. Some incredible defensive plays

[OTM Al]

Admittedly, that roster was embarrassed by JPN, NK & VEN, and it was far from a slouch gathering representing the US.

I walk up the street and have a ball watchin' kids play ball.

Darn shame you have such high standards for what you're willing to spend your 'valuable time' with given the level of joy garnered by watching kids having a ball.

To each his own.

(I enjoyed your chronicle of SAR and suspect you might see me next year)

Problem with the lineup was that the pitchers were, for the most part, well past their prime or never were at the top of the league. Plus several of those position players never played. It was hardly a representative team. Of course the Dominican blew up too so hard to figure.

Just not into watching kids play and I get no sense of joy from them. Baseball, despite beliefs otherwise was not a child's game nor was it a pastoral pursuit.

I am glad though you have enjoyed the reports from Saratoga. Not done with that yet. And you should come. I've loved every year I've met up with the group and this one seemed especially fun.

[dav4463]

Once they get to a level of being on TV, I would bet 99 percent of the parents think they have the next LeBron/Babe Ruth/Nolan Ryan and then when only 1 percent makes it, it leaves a lot of disappointed kids and parents. By the TV level, they have already forgotten that it is supposed to be fun.

Even at just the select basketball level ; about half the parents think they have the next LeBron. I know what I'm talking about. I see it every year. The dumb parents are recycled every year and they are exactly the same year after year after year! There is always the "ex-athlete trying to force is less talented kid to be as good as he once was"....There are the "big university ex-frat guys wearing their college rings who still act like frat guys while yelling at the referees like idiots".....There are the "loud (usually fat) moms who think every referee is biased against their kid."......There is "the Dad who never played sports that pushes his kid so hard that the kid hates the game and wishes he was at home playing video games.".......I could go on and on!

It's not all bad. I would estimate that about 15 percent of the parents "get it"....but that's about it in my opinion.

Don't think it is bad referees either that gets them all riled up. When you work a 5A varsity game on Friday night with virtually no problems and then show up at a 4th grade girl's game on Saturday morning and you almost have a riot......I think the problem is not with the referees, but with some really bad parents.

[newtothegame]

Once they get to a level of being on TV, I would bet 99 percent of the parents think they have the next LeBron/Babe Ruth/Nolan Ryan and then when only 1 percent makes it, it leaves a lot of disappointed kids and parents. By the TV level, they have already forgotten that it is supposed to be fun.

Even at just the select basketball level ; about half the parents think they have the next LeBron. I know what I'm talking about. I see it every year. The dumb parents are recycled every year and they are exactly the same year after year after year! There is always the "ex-athlete trying to force is less talented kid to be as good as he once was"....There are the "big university ex-frat guys wearing their college rings who still act like frat guys while yelling at the referees like idiots".....There are the "loud (usually fat) moms who think every referee is biased against their kid."......There is "the Dad who never played sports that pushes his kid so hard that the kid hates the game and wishes he was at home playing video games.".......I could go on and on!

It's not all bad. I would estimate that about 15 percent of the parents "get it"....but that's about it in my opinion.

Don't think it is bad referees either that gets them all riled up. When you work a 5A varsity game on Friday night with virtually no problems and then show up at a 4th grade girl's game on Saturday morning and you almost have a riot......I think the problem is not with the referees, but with some really bad parents.

Dave...(and please don't think I am trying to be antagonistic here) but do you read what ya wrote in this post?

You say " Don't think it is bad referres either that gets them all riled up"...in referrence to the parents. Ok, I am fine with that...but look at how you referred to all of your example parents....

"dumb parents",
"ex athlete trying to force less talented kid"
"Big university ex-frat guys wearing their college rings"
"idiots"
"loud (usually fat moms)"
"dad who never played sports that pushes..."

Are you sure it's not the refs???? I mean it appears you have a very unique vision of the parents.

I know there are butt-heads in all walks of life...

How about maybe the parents just want the best for their children??

But, from an outsider looking in...seems that you may have an issue or two yourself.....just saying!

[dav4463]

No issue. Just years of seeing the same type of parents who lose control. The kids love us, the parents hate us....for the most part. Kids get it, parents don't. That's the majority. There are some good ones mixed in, but not too many. Most of them do not "want the best for their kids" , they want their kid to "get everything their way". Most are poor sports and not teaching sportsmanship is the worst thing you can do when it comes to youth sports. If I had a dollar for every youth coach that told his kids after the game, " You didn't lose, those sorry referees stole the game from you."...I would be rich. How's that for teaching a kid responsibility? It teaches them to always blame someone else for your failures.

It hurts officiating too. There are a lot of good referees who love the game and love the kids, but they get so fed up with parents that they quit. That's sad.

[dav4463]

Also, I will admit that there are some "bad" referees at the 4th, 5th, 6th grade, and junior high level.

I wouldn't call them "bad", I prefer "inexperienced".

But, where do the screaming parents think first year referees learn how to officiate a game? You just don't throw a new referee out there in a high school game. A new referee has to learn somewhere and will make mistakes. It's all part of the sport. 4th grade players make a lot of mistakes as well.

However, when a top level varsity official works a 4th grade game and still gets yelled at like he is an idiot....something is wrong.

[Rookies]

Dave, you sound like the beat cop that has drawn the really bad straw of policing Fort Apache. Your bad experiences continually reinforce that more and more parents are of the crazed, ill mannered, my kid right or wrong variety.

Too bad, because most of us don't see that constantly happening in amateur sports. Yes, there's an element that mirrors what you've stated, but I don't believe it's grown to epidemic proportions. And, I have done a bit of umping meeself.

[newtothegame]

Dave, you sound like the beat cop that has drawn the really bad straw of policing Fort Apache. Your bad experiences continually reinforce that more and more parents are of the crazed, ill mannered, my kid right or wrong variety.

Too bad, because most of us don't see that constantly happening in amateur sports. Yes, there's an element that mirrors what you've stated, but I don't believe it's grown to epidemic proportions. And, I have done a bit of umping meeself.

Yeah this is what I was trying to point out....seems Dave has had a bad string, or something. We have the occassional idiot....but for the most, great parents, great refs, and great sports which lead to all around fun!

[dav4463]

The good experiences make up for the bad ones, but I think it is getting worse every year.

[dav4463]

Anybody see the 30/30 special on ESPN Classic about the 82 Little League World Series champs?

It kind of reinforced what I've seen as far as the "bad" in youth sports. This 13 year old kid was scarred for life because of the way he was treated by the other parents. It was sad.

Oh, by the way, not one single kid made it to the major leagues.