Gio Ponti hangs again! [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

senortout

08-21-2010, 06:58 PM

TOm he swept to the lead and hung ..come on...look closely at his pps hes does it every time....

I just watched the replay.....that horse exploded late after running a whole lot closer to the pace thru most of the going.....

Got beat by a better horse on this day and maybe any day if he catches a ride like that. My hats off to the trainer and all the connections here. Actually flattered Gio Ponti a bit, in a way. (jockey, horse never saw him coming until it was too late)

only11

08-21-2010, 07:00 PM

I just watched the replay.....that horse exploded late after running a whole lot closer to the pace thru most of the going.....

Got beat by a better horse on this day and maybe any day if he catches a ride like that. My hats off to the trainer and all the connections here. Actually flattered Gio Ponti a bit, in a way. (jockey, horse never saw him coming until it was too late)
He runs like that every race... look at his losses theres always excuses with GP.take 15 minutes and go look at video replays of GP races..

CincyHorseplayer

08-21-2010, 07:06 PM

Did you bet him??

If not you should have made some money on this race with your profound insight.

Did you??

sonnyp

08-21-2010, 07:07 PM

gio ponti was no fewer than 7 or 8 wide off the turn exploded to a clear lead and noticeably shut it down to what appeared to be a comfortable win. don't think he ever saw that horse slip thru on the rail.

no excuse for his loss but i don't believe i would call it hanging. if he ran up to, but wouldn't go bye that horse in the lead in the stretch, that , imho, would be hanging.

only11

08-21-2010, 07:09 PM

Zippy Chippy

08-21-2010, 07:15 PM

He does the same shit every race wide ,leads ,hangs...have you seen the horses hes lost too these last 2 years Interpation...my goodness.

No fault to Gio. That rail close was insanity

only11

08-21-2010, 07:16 PM

Did you bet him??

If not you should have made some money on this race with your profound insight.

Did you??
I bet Tazeed and lost ...funny you should ask though i did have a $60 win bet on memorial maniac.my insight was very good for that race.

firstoffclaim

08-21-2010, 07:18 PM

Gio ran 2nd in a million dollar race, no shame there. He does have a habit though of being lazy when he hits the front.

only11

08-21-2010, 07:21 PM

Gio ran 2nd in a million dollar race, no shame there. He does have a habit though of being lazy when he hits the front.
Ok if lazy is what you call it then so be it,.GP has never stared down any horse and won,its the opposite with Gp hes gutless when looked in the eye..the pps dont lie
Again go look at the horses hes lost too!
Didnt he have a brief lead in the classic before the so called specialist Zenyatta swallowed his ass up...

speed

08-21-2010, 07:24 PM

Ok if lazy is what you call it then so be it,.GP has never stared down any horse and won,its the opposite with Gp hes gutless when looked in the eye..the pps dont lie
Again go look at the horses hes lost too!
Didnt he have a brief lead in the classic before the so called specialist Zenyatta swallowed his ass up...

Hasn't he won like half his starts?

Not exactly the prototype for a gutless hanger.

only11

08-21-2010, 07:25 PM

Hasn't he won like half his starts?

Not exactly the prototype for a gutless hanger.
Dude go look it isnt hard to see your a trip capper ..wtf the winning half his starts have to do with it?

Dahoss9698

08-21-2010, 07:25 PM

Tomorrow can't come soon enough.

bisket

08-21-2010, 07:30 PM

i think dominguez just left ponti with to much to do on a soft track. i didn't think there would be much of a chance ponti would be that far back after a 1/2 mile. on soft turf a horse only has about 1/2 to 3/4's of a furlong of acceleration. so you want to be close enough to the leaders to get in front shortly before the wire with that much ground to do it in. debussey's jock played it just right. not the case with dominguez.... that was the difference between winning and place. dominguez used the 3/4's of a furlong of acceleration to get to the lead with to much ground left before the wire. although i don't think he had to much of a choice because ponti was so far back after 1/2 mile. it was the first 1/2 mile in which ramon cost ponti the win.

only11

08-21-2010, 07:30 PM

your the same knuckelhead i told GP wont win another race the whole year..the latter part of his career GP has become a hanger..
the horse will be overbet every single time,,
its always TOO FAR BACk,TROUBLED MUCH THE BEST<DOESNT LIKE THE COURSE<TOO SOFT<TOO YIELDING<come on folks GP isnt the same horse,great horse to bet against because there are suckers who still think hes the same horse he was 2 years ago

speed

08-21-2010, 07:32 PM

Dude go look it isnt hard to see your a trip capper ..wtf the winning half his starts have to do with it?

I was sure you were back on ur meds this weekend. Now i am not so sure.

I had this whole response ready to post and then it dawned on me. Gio Ponti's last race. He gutted out a solid victory. Dug down deep to get up.

Good Luck

Tom

08-21-2010, 07:34 PM

Yes......yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPmAuCQrPIg

only11

08-21-2010, 07:34 PM

I was sure you were back on ur meds this weekend. Now i am not so sure.

I had this whole response ready to post and then it dawned on me. Gio Ponti's last race. He gutted out a solid victory. Dug down deep to get up.

Good Luck
OH GOD THE 2ND PLACE FINISHER WAS A HORSE_ WHO SET A SLOW PACE AND CAME BACK TO GP he was only 35-1

speed

08-21-2010, 07:38 PM

Gio Ponti Career record stands at 21 starts 10 wins 7 places with over 4 million earned.

Imagine his record if he was not a gutless hanger.

CincyHorseplayer

08-21-2010, 08:45 PM

I bet Tazeed and lost ...funny you should ask though i did have a $60 win bet on memorial maniac.my insight was very good for that race.

OK,at least you had the right idea=bet against.I thought GP was just a cut below Tazeez and Debussy.I used those two in my top 2 combinations and with both over GP top heavy.

I just thought it was a bash thread but you were trying to make some money off a perceived weakness,good deal man:ThmbUp:

I do think GP ran a pretty good race though.

thorobasePA

08-21-2010, 11:39 PM

I just watched the replay of the race. To me, and I felt this on first viewing, it seemed that as soon as Gio Ponti received a proper crack of the whip, he stopped stretching out, changed leads, and did not look happy at all.

In my experience I've seen this happen to some older horses (I particularly remember a Cheltenham winner Rith Dubh who would stop as soon as he was whipped). Gio Ponti is only 5 but I would be tentative about his future prospects if ridden in this manner again.

Just my two cents.

OntheRail

08-22-2010, 12:26 AM

months ago i have been saying GIO PONTI hangs like a cheap suit..i got killed for that insane statement!
NOW WHATS HIS EXCUSE?

Funny when you use him to prop up the Prom Queen he's the second coming of Citation... Grade 1 winner top shelve. And now he a cheap suit. :lol:

PhantomOnTour

08-22-2010, 12:58 AM

gm10

08-22-2010, 01:59 AM

Gio Ponti had a fantastic year in 2009 winning about 4 or 5 Gr1 races in succession and being very close in some others...nice campaign.
Unfortunately the modern thoroughbred in America is finding it hard to put together 2 great campaigns in a row. Throw in his trip to Dubai and he couldn't possibly be the same horse he was last year.

Whether one thinks he hung or not today in the Arlington million is not the real story. That Debussy put in a hell of a run, period.

Agreed with that. I kept looking at Debussy's PP's, thinking why is he here? What am I missing? I guess a return to top form, lasix, and a dream split at the rail when it came, beat a lingering Gio Ponti who, it must be said, doesn't have the same will to win as he had last year. Maybe they should put him away for a while.

classhandicapper

08-22-2010, 10:55 AM

I thought Dominguez may have moved a tad too soon. I don't really blame him because it looked like Tazeez was gone and he probably figured that was the horse to beat. But it looked to me like Gio didn't finish as well in the last 70 yards as he was moving before that.

The winner saved ground, drafted inside, got loose soon enough and finished like a rocket. You could easily conclude he had a perfect trip. But if he was the #1 horse in Europe instead of a second stringer you could easily conclude he finished loaded with reserves, won for fun, and would have won bigger if he got loose sooner.

IMO Gio Ponti may have lost a little since last year, but if he has it's not a full step

CincyHorseplayer

08-22-2010, 11:23 AM

Agreed with that. I kept looking at Debussy's PP's, thinking why is he here? What am I missing? I guess a return to top form, lasix, and a dream split at the rail when it came, beat a lingering Gio Ponti who, it must be said, doesn't have the same will to win as he had last year. Maybe they should put him away for a while.

GM, you know we love your horses coming over on turf.You are missing it!!!This is a lightly race 4yo.Those type of horses are capable of multitudinal improvement!!

Seriously though he ran a big race.I was astonished with the ride he had.This guy might dominate American Turf from here on out if he stays in the country.

Dahoss9698

08-22-2010, 11:24 AM

Agreed with that. I kept looking at Debussy's PP's, thinking why is he here? What am I missing? I guess a return to top form, lasix, and a dream split at the rail when it came, beat a lingering Gio Ponti who, it must be said, doesn't have the same will to win as he had last year. Maybe they should put him away for a while.

Put him away for awhile? Brilliant...He's lost a step obviously (running in challenging spots will do that) but he has been beat a total of 1 length in his 3 losses on turf this year. As a 5 year old, what would they be putting him away for? A rainy day?

Robert Goren

08-22-2010, 11:28 AM

Tomorrow can't come soon enough.The new leader for post of the year.

gm10

08-22-2010, 12:16 PM

gm10

08-22-2010, 12:20 PM

Put him away for awhile? Brilliant...He's lost a step obviously (running in challenging spots will do that) but he has been beat a total of 1 length in his 3 losses on turf this year. As a 5 year old, what would they be putting him away for? A rainy day?

He's had a pretty much non-stop campaign for more than a year. He's entitled to a bit of a lie down. You don't have to squeeze the lemon, you know. Plenty of horses run fine as 5-6-7 yo. Didn't John Henry have to wait 4 years between Million wins? I think the horse is going to sour on his racing before soon this way. Maybe this way they'll get a third place or something out of him in the BC Turf. Is that maximizing his potential? I doubt it.

only11

08-22-2010, 12:23 PM

The new leader for post of the year.
It must suck living in NEBRASKA..

Dahoss9698

08-22-2010, 12:24 PM

He's had a pretty much non-stop campaign for more than a year. He's entitled to a bit of a lie down. You don't have to squeeze the lemon, you know. Plenty of horses run fine as 5-6-7 yo. Didn't John Henry have to wait 4 years between Million wins? I think the horse is going to sour on his racing before soon this way. Maybe this way they'll get a third place or something out of him in the BC Turf. Is that maximizing his potential? I doubt it.

John Henry was a gelding. How many races could Gio Ponti possibly have before he hits the breeding shed?

toetoe

08-22-2010, 12:25 PM

months ago i have been saying GIO PONTI hangs like a cheap suit..i got killed for that insane statement!
NOW WHATS HIS EXCUSE?

1) only11 hates him :jump:

2) Debussy ran a monstrous final furlong; kinda like a real nice horse might run :ThmbUp:

Steve R

08-22-2010, 12:27 PM

GM, you know we love your horses coming over on turf.You are missing it!!!This is a lightly race 4yo.Those type of horses are capable of multitudinal improvement!!

Seriously though he ran a big race.I was astonished with the ride he had.This guy might dominate American Turf from here on out if he stays in the country.
I don't follow your logic. Debussy now has had 14 lifetime starts and has been racing since November of his 2yo season. Except for the standard European winter breaks he has raced an average of every 5 or so weeks. He was demolished in both previous attempts against G1 horses and his Racing Post Ratings have been generally in the 110 to 115 range for two years. At what point is a horse with consistent, well-established form no longer lightly raced? Also, he earned a Beyer 101 which my studies indicate is about equivalent to a RPR 115. That 101 is easily the lowest Beyer figure for the Million in at least 20 years. Visual impressions aside, I'd say this was a typical winning effort by the winner in a very poor edition of the race.

gm10

08-22-2010, 12:34 PM

John Henry was a gelding. How many races could Gio Ponti possibly have before he hits the breeding shed?

That's not the point. I'm only giving my opinion that he looks like a horse who could do well with a 6 month break, and gave you an example that this doesn't have to affect his future in a negative way.

Cardus

08-22-2010, 12:37 PM

Gio Ponti will have six weeks into the Turf Classic and another four into the Breeders' Cup.

That seems sufficient.

Dahoss9698

08-22-2010, 12:38 PM

That's not the point. I'm only giving my opinion that he looks like a horse who could do well with a 6 month break, and gave you an example that this doesn't have to affect his future in a negative way.

And I'm giving the opinion that you (as usual) are out of your element. You're comparing what a gelding did to a horse probably running his last few races before he hits the shed. It's a stupid comparison.

gm10

08-22-2010, 12:39 PM

I don't follow your logic. Debussy now has had 14 lifetime starts and has been racing since November of his 2yo season. Except for the standard European winter breaks he has raced an average of every 5 or so weeks. He was demolished in both previous attempts against G1 horses and his Racing Post Ratings have been generally in the 110 to 115 range for two years. At what point is a horse with consistent, well-established form no longer lightly raced? Also, he earned a Beyer 101 which my studies indicate is about equivalent to a RPR 115. That 101 is easily the lowest Beyer figure for the Million in at least 20 years. Visual impressions aside, I'd say this was a typical winning effort by the winner in a very poor edition of the race.

I think it's the Lasix. One of the properties of Lasix is that it makes the animals more consistent, which is something that has been distinctly lacking in his efforts so far. Also note that he seems to run better on good and soft turf.
And Gio Ponti probably is only running at 90% at the moment, which indeed made this a weak edition.

Fingal

08-22-2010, 12:42 PM

Gio ran 2nd in a million dollar race, no shame there. He does have a habit though of being lazy when he hits the front.

He's the type of horse I'd love to own, can't dispute that bankroll. But to put a win bet on ? Never. He can't be counted on.

gm10

08-22-2010, 12:46 PM

And I'm giving the opinion that you (as usual) are out of your element. You're comparing what a gelding did to a horse probably running his last few races before he hits the shed. It's a stupid comparison.

It wasn't even a comparison. The fact that JH was a gelding has zero to do with it. I was merely making a case that older horses can still be very competitive, and illustrating by a horse who won this very race 4 years apart.
If the owners are a bit more open-minded than you, they might well consider the option. I would. He looks like a sound horse who is still very fast but with less fire in his belly.

only11

08-22-2010, 12:51 PM

1) only11 hates him :jump:

2) Debussy ran a monstrous final furlong; kinda like a real nice horse might run :ThmbUp:
i dont hate horses,i love the way when the great INTERPATION looked GP in the eye and he hung like the tin can that he is,face reality folks!

Dahoss9698

08-22-2010, 12:54 PM

It wasn't even a comparison. The fact that JH was a gelding has zero to do with it. I was merely making a case that older horses can still be very competitive, and illustrating by a horse who won this very race 4 years apart.
If the owners are a bit more open-minded than you, they might well consider the option. I would. He looks like a sound horse who is still very fast but with less fire in his belly.

My point, which you seem to be missing was there was a reason John Henry was still running in the race as a 9 year old. He was a gelding. Had he still been intact, he would have been retired years earlier.

Of course older horses can still be competitive. No one is saying they can't. But to give a healthy 5 year old who is probably nearing the end of his career 6 months off to see if he comes back with more fire in his belly at 6 is not very logical. But hey, no surprise there.

gm10

08-22-2010, 01:07 PM

My point, which you seem to be missing was there was a reason John Henry was still running in the race as a 9 year old. He was a gelding. Had he still been intact, he would have been retired years earlier.

Of course older horses can still be competitive. No one is saying they can't. But to give a healthy 5 year old who is probably nearing the end of his career 6 months off to see if he comes back with more fire in his belly at 6 is not very logical. But hey, no surprise there.

My point is that he still has the gears, but is lacking freshness, and a 6 months break would do a lot of good. All you can think of is breeding value. Sure, keep running him and ending second to moderate group 3 horses. That'll increase his breeding value with every defeat.

Dahoss9698

08-22-2010, 01:11 PM

My point is that he still has the gears, but is lacking freshness, and a 6 months break would do a lot of good. All you can think of is breeding value. Sure, keep running him and ending second to moderate group 3 horses. That'll increase his breeding value with every defeat.

His breeding value is already pretty secure. He's a multiple grade 1 winner. Dual champion and has a nice pedigree.

Do you follow the game much?

gm10

08-22-2010, 01:13 PM

His breeding value is already pretty secure. He's a multiple grade 1 winner. Dual champion and has a nice pedigree.

Do you follow the game much?

Yep, and each grade 1 he loses, creates another competitor on the breeding market. Read a lot of Bertrand Russell, do you?

DeanT

08-22-2010, 01:14 PM

My point is that he still has the gears, but is lacking freshness, and a 6 months break would do a lot of good. All you can think of is breeding value. Sure, keep running him and ending second to moderate group 3 horses. That'll increase his breeding value with every defeat.

I can see this opine. You might be right.

In breeding a lot has to do with "what have you done for me lately". I am not sure, but I do not think they have a syndicate deal done for Gio. Each GR I defeat takes a little shine off the horse, and that is reflected in syndication value.

Dahoss9698

08-22-2010, 01:18 PM

Yep, and each grade 1 he loses, creates another competitor on the breeding market. Read a lot of Bertrand Russell, do you?

Do you just make this stuff up as you go?

Dahoss9698

08-22-2010, 01:20 PM

FenceBored

08-22-2010, 01:23 PM

I can see this opine. You might be right.

In breeding a lot has to do with "what have you done for me lately". I am not sure, but I do not think they have a syndicate deal done for Gio. Each GR I defeat takes a little shine off the horse, and that is reflected in syndication value.

With the smallest foal crop since 1973 projected for next year (http://jockeyclub.com/mediaCenter.asp?story=445), I'm not sure how big a syndication deal anybody is going to be able to wrangle at this point.

DeanT

08-22-2010, 01:27 PM

With the smallest foal crop since 1973 projected for next year (http://jockeyclub.com/mediaCenter.asp?story=445), I'm not sure how big a syndication deal anybody is going to be able to wrangle at this point.

It's certainly not a great market.

But the old adage of going into the shed on a high, not a low, is still preferred when you are trying to sell shares.

bisket

08-22-2010, 01:46 PM

I don't follow your logic. Debussy now has had 14 lifetime starts and has been racing since November of his 2yo season. Except for the standard European winter breaks he has raced an average of every 5 or so weeks. He was demolished in both previous attempts against G1 horses and his Racing Post Ratings have been generally in the 110 to 115 range for two years. At what point is a horse with consistent, well-established form no longer lightly raced? Also, he earned a Beyer 101 which my studies indicate is about equivalent to a RPR 115. That 101 is easily the lowest Beyer figure for the Million in at least 20 years. Visual impressions aside, I'd say this was a typical winning effort by the winner in a very poor edition of the race.
the fact that i considered allowance runners for the exacta and trifecta means i totally agree with this analysis. although i do think if ponti is closer after a 1/2 or 3/4's of a mile he runs away with this race without a problem.

toetoe

08-22-2010, 05:00 PM

Read a lot of Bertrand Russell, do you?

I read Uncle Bertie once ... in Braille. :eek: ... :blush: .

speed

08-22-2010, 05:05 PM

I read Uncle Bertie once ... in Braille. :eek: ... :blush: .
Braille is a much better read in a strip club :)

Bullet Plane

08-22-2010, 10:43 PM

They might have got him to the front a little early, hard to say if that was the reason for the loss. I'm mean that Brit horse was moving like a bullet shot from a cannon. The best horse won. A possible explanation- maybe Gio Ponti didn't like the off going to the extent the Euro did. That has done us in before. They are off-going crazy over there.

turfnsport

08-23-2010, 12:12 AM

Ok if lazy is what you call it then so be it,.GP has never stared down any horse and won,its the opposite with Gp hes gutless when looked in the eye..the pps dont lie

No the PP's don't lie...He has won 10 of 21 starts, four Grade 1's in a row last year, and has landed in the exacta in 16 of 21 starts...A "Hanger" is not exactly a term I would use for a horse that has won $4.3 million (Unless your name is Perfect Drift maybe...lol)

CincyHorseplayer

08-23-2010, 01:57 PM

I don't follow your logic. Debussy now has had 14 lifetime starts and has been racing since November of his 2yo season. Except for the standard European winter breaks he has raced an average of every 5 or so weeks. He was demolished in both previous attempts against G1 horses and his Racing Post Ratings have been generally in the 110 to 115 range for two years. At what point is a horse with consistent, well-established form no longer lightly raced? Also, he earned a Beyer 101 which my studies indicate is about equivalent to a RPR 115. That 101 is easily the lowest Beyer figure for the Million in at least 20 years. Visual impressions aside, I'd say this was a typical winning effort by the winner in a very poor edition of the race.

Jesus.What a downtrodden view.

As far as my logic,13 starts and 4 yrs old does make a lightly raced horse.It's no secret horses are capable of being better at 3 than 2,and 4 than 3.I thought because of his age and incidents in his last race and yes,his RPR that he could very well win the race.So much so that I used him on top in 66% of my bet.

CincyHorseplayer

08-23-2010, 02:02 PM

That's not the point. I'm only giving my opinion that he looks like a horse who could do well with a 6 month break, and gave you an example that this doesn't have to affect his future in a negative way.

I agree with this too GM.I think the connections are little greedy and not very wise in their use and abuse of this horse.He had a very mediocre beginning to his career.Then reels off a string of G1's on the turf and they go berserk changing surfaces and going half way around the world with him.I'd have been content to keep him stateside and on a surface he loves before he got confused and lost interest.I think better days are ahead of him.

Steve R

08-23-2010, 02:57 PM

Jesus.What a downtrodden view.

As far as my logic,13 starts and 4 yrs old does make a lightly raced horse.It's no secret horses are capable of being better at 3 than 2,and 4 than 3.I thought because of his age and incidents in his last race and yes,his RPR that he could very well win the race.So much so that I used him on top in 66% of my bet.
I don't disagree that horses generally improve from 2 to 3 to 4, but the issue is the definition of "lightly raced". At 3 he raced in March, April, May, twice in June, July and August before being put away. At 4 he has so far raced in February, March, June, July and August. He has had 13 starts in 17 months. In recent years, American Thoroughbreds have started barely over 6 times each 12 months (and in a country where racing opportunities are available year round), so in comparison to his race record American runners collectively are lightly raced. How many more would he need not to be lightly raced at this stage of his career?

CincyHorseplayer

08-23-2010, 03:50 PM

I don't disagree that horses generally improve from 2 to 3 to 4, but the issue is the definition of "lightly raced". At 3 he raced in March, April, May, twice in June, July and August before being put away. At 4 he has so far raced in February, March, June, July and August. He has had 13 starts in 17 months. In recent years, American Thoroughbreds have started barely over 6 times each 12 months (and in a country where racing opportunities are available year round), so in comparison to his race record American runners collectively are lightly raced. How many more would he need not to be lightly raced at this stage of his career?

Layoffs are layoffs and 13 races in a 3 year career is lightly raced no matter how you slice it.

I'm not trying to make this personal Steve,I looked at the past performances and that is what I saw.I also saw a horse who showed enough evidence to improve greatly.I think the result validated my thinking as much by his running style as by being a 4yo eligible to improve by natural maturity.

Hanover1

08-23-2010, 04:27 PM

I'll make it simple here folks-if he's a hanger, I want a barn full of 'em....

bisket

08-23-2010, 06:29 PM

Jesus.What a downtrodden view.

As far as my logic,13 starts and 4 yrs old does make a lightly raced horse.It's no secret horses are capable of being better at 3 than 2,and 4 than 3.I thought because of his age and incidents in his last race and yes,his RPR that he could very well win the race.So much so that I used him on top in 66% of my bet.
i thought this was a good spot for debussy also. he liked soft going and ran a good race every time he raced over it. he has been very consistant this year, and it definately looked as if he would continue this on saturday. the light can go on at any time for a horse, and it happens all the time beyond 4 years. the handicapper thats open to things like this always gets the overlay.... just like saturday!!

Spalding No!

08-23-2010, 07:17 PM

What BC race is Gio Ponti heading towards? I think he'd be most interesting in the BC Mile.

Cardus

08-24-2010, 12:05 AM

What BC race is Gio Ponti heading towards? I think he'd be most interesting in the BC Mile.

Since he cannot get 1 1/2 and the Breeders' Cup is not on a synthetic course -- where 1 1/4 would fit well -- this seems like a logical spot.