Did I Miss Something? RE:Russell Baze

[Java Gold@TFT]

I did a search and not one thread about Baze passing the 11,000 win mark last week. Is it just that he is the Zenyatta of jockeys - the one big fish in a small pond who rarely wanders outside his comfort zone? The guy has WON 11,000 races and is still going. I'd think the guy would get some love around here. How many have bet a 5/2 shot just because Baze was riding and you thought you were getting an overlay?

Congrats to Baze no matter where he is riding. He's the alltime winningest jockey in modern history.

[TEJAS KIDD]

We should do a poll.

Who gets less respect
Russell Baze and his 11,000+ wins
or Zenyatta and her 18 straight.

[Skanoochies]

Put Russell on Zenyata, then see what little respect you get. :lol:

[MMM59]

Is there a statistic for lowest average odds per win, he would be the leader.
Great human being, great racing family, but tough to bet on. Hope he makes it to 12,000 or more.

[Robert Goren]

His agent belongs in the Hall of Fame.

[horses721]

Hank Aaron or Babe Ruth would have hit over a thousand home runs if they spent their careers in the minor leagues and it wouldn't be considered a great accomplishment for that very reason. Baze rides in the minor leagues against lousy jockeys in ridicuously short fields year after year. I'm sure Pincay's record wouldn't be in danger if he ran in NoCal against Baze for almost his entire career. Like I always say, how come he has had so few mounts in triple crown races or Breeders cup races over his entire career if he is such a great of a jockey? I look forward to reading the excuses.

[Hosshead]

I'm sure Pincay's record wouldn't be in danger if he ran in NoCal against Baze for almost his entire career.

Absolutely correct !

[macdiarmida]

Robert Goren wrote:
His agent belongs in the Hall of Fame.I've seen that guy bet many times and I am not at all impressed by his abilities there - very, very average. He seems to be good at other agent talents, like running interference and schmoozing owners and trainers, and in not irritating RB. So I have to give all credit to Baze for attracting all the best horses and doing the choosing.

Jorge Ricardo (who?) is right behind RB in wins. I think those two will be going at it until they are forcibly retired.

[Java Gold@TFT]

Jorge Ricardo (who?) is right behind RB in wins. I think those two will be going at it until they are forcibly retired.
I think Ricardo races somehwere in South America but I'm not sure where.

[toetoe]

Hank Aaron or Babe Ruth would have hit over a thousand home runs if they spent their careers in the minor leagues and it wouldn't be considered a great accomplishment for that very reason. Baze rides in the minor leagues against lousy jockeys in ridicuously short fields year after year. I'm sure Pincay's record wouldn't be in danger if he ran in NoCal against Baze for almost his entire career. Like I always say, how come he has had so few mounts in triple crown races or Breeders cup races over his entire career if he is such a great of a jockey? I look forward to reading the excuses.



Wow, you're not a political activist, are you ? The lack of any positive argumentation in your post is impressive indeed. Well, at least your mind is open, so here goes:



Please define the members of the "minor leagues" (AAA, AA, A, et cetera); then define the "major leagues."

Please explain how anyone great will ever come out of Southern California, with its "ridiculously short fields." No riders, no trainers, no horses even. You may be unwittingly (hmm ... imagine that :D ) slamming Zenyatta. I have no quarrel with her streak --- it's just a number. Assessing greatness is like handicapping a race; non-rigid, intuitive interpretation is usually needed.

You started the rant about winning rides; now you slam Baze for lack of any TC or BC rides. What's the minimal winning percentage in TC and BC races required for greatness ?

You wannabe jockstraps live to hear about the next record being tied or broken (first man to hit for the cycle while porking the manager's wife; least literate man to hit an inside-the-park home run while swallowing tobacco juice; most no-hitters against "ridiculously" bad teams), so why should Baze's record be such a burr in your tutu ?

[toetoe]

Jorge Ricardo ? He's in Brasil. Minor leagues, fershure fershure. :rolleyes: .

[TEJAS KIDD]

I think with Russell it was never about fame and fortune. He did make an unsuccessful attempt at the So Cal circuit some time in the late 80's or early 90's. Their mentality was it was better to stay home and ride an 8-10 race card than to travel to ride in a single stakes race. Money would be equally the same and he wouldnt piss off the 8-10 owners that he would have been riding for.
How many times did Russell beat Joel Rosario and Martin Garcia before they headed south? There's no question to Russells ability and the fact he deserves to be in the HOF. The record may be tainted of sorts because of where he won, but it's still a racord, just like Pepper's Prides.
Year's ago I had an argument about TO's record for receptions in a game. The complaint was it came against a hapless opponent (think it was the Bears). My response was, then why hasn't anyone else done it against the Bears (15 other teams get to play against them every year).

Pretty sure that by the time he's done, Russell Baze will also be the all time losingest jockey (he may already be there)

[Light]

Baze rides in the minor leagues against lousy jockeys in ridicuously short fields year after year.

Minor leagues like

Jerry Hollendorfer?
Art Sherman?
Greg Gilchrist?
Blind Luck?
Hysterical Lady?
Lost in the Fog?
Victor Espinoza?(couldn't beat Baze)
Martin Garcia?(couldn't beat Baze)
Joel Rosario?(couldn't beat Baze)



Just to name a few that come to mind. They have repeatedly shown the big leagues how its done in NoCal.

[Bruiser1]

Baze is a great jockey who's made his living in Northern California.

Any jockey who's won 11,000 races is doing something right.

[horses721]

Baze is a great jockey who's made his living in Northern California.

Any jockey who's won 11,000 races is doing something right.

What he is doing is riding in short fields at a minor leauge track.

[horses721]

Minor leagues like

Jerry Hollendorfer?
Art Sherman?
Greg Gilchrist?
Blind Luck?
Hysterical Lady?
Lost in the Fog?
Victor Espinoza?(couldn't beat Baze)
Martin Garcia?(couldn't beat Baze)
Joel Rosario?(couldn't beat Baze)



Just to name a few that come to mind. They have repeatedly shown the big leagues how its done in NoCal.
All the horses, jockeys and trainers that you have named have had great success at major league tracks compared to Baze. Russell dominates the minors! Why isn't he riding Blind luck for his main trainer who he rides for in the minor leagues? How come he's had so few triple crown and Breeders Cup mounts if he is so great? He has more mounts in the claiming crowns races than in the Triple Crown and Breeders cup races. I think that says alot about how great he is in the eyes of owners and trainers at the highest levels of racing.

Finally, do you really think that if Espinoza, Garcia and Rosario were still riding in NoCal, that Baze would still be top rider? I don't think so. Unlike Baze, those 3 you named that couldn't beat Baze stayed for a short time at NoCal and moved on to bigger things. Russel did that and ran back to NoCal with his tail between his legs when he wasn't so successful.

[Light]

Why isn't he riding Blind luck for his main trainer who he rides for in the minor leagues?

He was Lost in the Fog's regular rider and he does get sent down to SoCal regularly for big races. He has led the nation in victories 10 different years. What does that mean? That there isn't one other dominate jock at some low level or high level track that can dominate like Baze. If its so easy to be a dominant jock in NoCal,why don't some other big names just come here and take over Baze's job from him? And if they did,would they win the riding title 10 different years? We can speculate why he isn't riding Blind Luck and he is no good for betting value, but give the guy credit for something very difficult to accomplish for any jock.

[Bruiser1]

What he is doing is riding in short fields at a minor leauge track.

LOL!!! You post as if only Northern Ca. has short fields.

In terms of the minor league argument, I just don't see it that way. If it's so easy to win races there, why haven't many of the Southern Ca. jockey's colony, who seldom win races, moved up north?

[horses721]

LOL!!! You post as if only Northern Ca. has short fields.

In terms of the minor league argument, I just don't see it that way. If it's so easy to win races there, why haven't many of the Southern Ca. jockey's colony, who seldom win races, moved up north?
Jocks don't go to NoCal because there aren't many horses to ride because of the short fields and secondly, the purses aren't that great so why go there to win more races and take a paycut. Those that leave SoCal move to tracks with larger purses than what they offer in NoCal . Why do you think Mike Baze went to Chicago and David Cohen went to Philly for the large slot purses just to name a few. Chris McCarron didn't stay at a minor league track like Suffolk Downs so he could win alot of races. Martin Garcia didn't stay in NoCal because what was the point of wasting his talent up there and make less money. Russell Baze tried to make it in the big in the early 80's and couldn't cut it so he went back to the minor leagues so his record doesn't mean so much. Bottom line, Pincay won at the highest level while competiting against some of the toughest jockies in the world. Russell Baze can't even come close to that competition level so his win record means nothing to me. Heck, even Kayla Stra isn't a half bad jock riding in NoCal. That's all you need to know about his jockey competition.

[46zilzal]

Saw Laffit one year ride at bay Meadows for two weeks. He brought home a maiden in his first week, that had gone 0-32 before he rode her. After two weeks he was in the top ten riders before he left for New York

[horses721]

LOL!!! You post as if only Northern Ca. has short fields.

In terms of the minor league argument, I just don't see it that way. If it's so easy to win races there, why haven't many of the Southern Ca. jockey's colony, who seldom win races, moved up north?
Still waiting for a reply to my reply to your post quoted above?

[Bruiser1]

Still waiting for a reply to my reply to your post quoted above?

Sorry for keeping you waiting.......

Baze has made his career in northern California. You seem to assume he did so due to a lack of talent, as compared to Jockeys in Southern California.

I don't know Russell Baze as I've never met him. I don't know his reasons for choosing to make his career where he did. I do know he is 52 years, still working hard and currently owns the most career victories of any Jockey...ever. To me, that does reflect talent and should be respected.

[Stillriledup]

Russell's 50,000th MOUNT takes place today at GG. He's 6 rides away from 50k. He figures to accept the mount on Finish Rich in NYC in Race 6 as his 50,000th mount....she's 7-5 ML, so he might very well win with this particular mare. Amazing accomplishment.

[davew]

They said on HRTV that his 'race' mileage is enough to ride around the world twice at the equater - I have not calculated to see if that is correct...

[Stillriledup]

They said on HRTV that his 'race' mileage is enough to ride around the world twice at the equater - I have not calculated to see if that is correct...

If he was in 25,000 sprints and 25,000 routes and you say that 7F is the average distance he covered, or even if you round it up to one mile, its about 45,000 or 50,000 miles. The circumference around the earth is about 25,000 miles, so he's gone around the world about 2 times, their math is pretty accurate.

[JustRalph]

50k rides is incredible.

Has he ever been seriously injured ?

[bks]

What a silly comparison: Baze and Zenyatta. On what planet was Zenyatta ever in the minor leagues? Every one of her races came at a major track, and she had 13 G1 wins from 20 races, including 2 Breeders Cup wins.

How many G1 wins does Baze have from 50,000 races?

[picojim]

What a silly comparison: Baze and Zenyatta. On what planet was Zenyatta ever in the minor leagues? Every one of her races came at a major track, and she had 13 G1 wins from 20 races, including 2 Breeders Cup wins.

How many G1 wins does Baze have from 50,000 races?
Baze has won many major stakes, including the following Grade 1 events: Ancient Title Handicap (with Smiling Tiger in 2010), King’s Bishop (Lost in the Fog-2005), Santa Monica Handicap (Devils Orchid-1991), and Oak Tree Invitational (twice, Hawkster-1989, Both Ends Burning-1984).

[bks]

So the answer is 5 G1 wins? OK.

I know how good he is. He's not nearly as good a jockey as Zenyatta was a horse. Not nearly. But he's a very good jockey. Hope he rides until he's 60.

[Shelby]

50k rides is incredible.

Has he ever been seriously injured ?


I don't know about the injuries...but, DAMN 50k is amazing.

[SharpCat]

Sorry for keeping you waiting.......

Baze has made his career in northern California. You seem to assume he did so due to a lack of talent, as compared to Jockeys in Southern California.

I don't know Russell Baze as I've never met him. I don't know his reasons for choosing to make his career where he did. I do know he is 52 years, still working hard and currently owns the most career victories of any Jockey...ever. To me, that does reflect talent and should be respected.


I agree hear. I think the main reason he stayed in N. California was his family. He's married and has 4 kids. He has stated on more than 1 occasion that he stayed in Bay area so his kids could have a stable home and grow up there. He made a sacrifice for his family and I give him alot of respect for that. Most of the time it's jockeys family's who make the sacrifice.