For the 10th time: Sources: Santa Anita going back to dirt

[andymays]

http://www.insidesocal.com/horseracing/2010/08/sources-santa-anita-going-back.html

Excerpt:

My sources all tell me that Frank Stronach will inform horsemen during a meeting at Del Mar tonight that he will install a traditional dirt track at Santa Anita immediately following the Oak Tree meet and it will be finished in time for the track's winter-spring meet that begins on Dec. 26.

Stronach also reportedly will tell horsemen that he'd like to have Oak Tree as a tenant for three additional years after this one, but that is contingent on a few things happening in his favor. One industry souce told me he still expects Oak Tree to be run at Del Mar beginning in 2011.

[tubesockshakur]

:lol:

[exiles]

My sources all tell me that Frank Stronach will inform horsemen during a meeting at Del Mar tonight that he will install a traditional dirt track at Santa Anita immediately following the Oak Tree meet and it will be finished in time for the track's winter-spring meet that begins on Dec. 26.


Very good news if true Andy!!!

[andymays]

My sources all tell me that Frank Stronach will inform horsemen during a meeting at Del Mar tonight that he will install a traditional dirt track at Santa Anita immediately following the Oak Tree meet and it will be finished in time for the track's winter-spring meet that begins on Dec. 26.


Very good news if true Andy!!!

Art Wilson is plugged in pretty well. I think this is the real deal.

[elhelmete]

My sources all tell me that Frank Stronach will inform horsemen during a meeting at Del Mar tonight that he will install a traditional dirt track at Santa Anita immediately following the Oak Tree meet and it will be finished in time for the track's winter-spring meet that begins on Dec. 26.


Very good news if true Andy!!!

That's 55 days total to remove, rebuild, replace, allow sufficient training to get confidence of horsemen, and otherwise prepare for the 12/26 traditional open.

Not buying it, though I'd love to see it.

They should let Oak Tree go elsewhere for this year and start reconstruction right after Labor Day.

[andymays]

That's 55 days total to remove, rebuild, replace, allow sufficient training to get confidence of horsemen, and otherwise prepare for the 12/26 traditional open.

Not buying it, though I'd love to see it.

They should let Oak Tree go elsewhere for this year and start reconstruction right after Labor Day.


I think they figured out that they can't make it another full year with the Pro Ride. The problems with it are probably too great to go beyond Oak Tree.

[elhelmete]

I think they figured out that they can't make it another full year with the Pro Ride. The problems with it are probably too great to go beyond Oak Tree.

I agree, that's why I think if they wait until Nov 1 to start that gives them all of September and October to fiddle faddle around and come up with a reason not to switch. Also, why sink one more dime into Pro Ride to gussy up in time for Oak Tree...if you're going to switch Nov 1?

They haven't, if the lack of public works is a sign, been training over the track, and with the racing moving to Pomona...why not start now (lease issues with Oak Tree notwithstanding)?

They've starting some work on the base there already, no? Is it possible that they've found something and maybe crunched the numbers and figured switch to dirt is actually more cost effective...that to properly refurb the Pro Ride they'd basically have to do like 2/3 of the work they'd need to do to switch to dirt anyway?

Also, I'd love the opinion of any horsemen here on how many days of training you would want before you felt OK racing over a brand new dirt surface.

[andymays]

I agree, that's why I think if they wait until Nov 1 to start that gives them all of September and October to fiddle faddle around and come up with a reason not to switch. Also, why sink one more dime into Pro Ride to gussy up in time for Oak Tree...if you're going to switch Nov 1?

They haven't, if the lack of public works is a sign, been training over the track, and with the racing moving to Pomona...why not start now (lease issues with Oak Tree notwithstanding)?

They've starting some work on the base there already, no? Is it possible that they've found something and maybe crunched the numbers and figured switch to dirt is actually more cost effective...that to properly refurb the Pro Ride they'd basically have to do like 2/3 of the work they'd need to do to switch to dirt anyway?

Also, I'd love the opinion of any horsemen here on how many days of training you would want before you felt OK racing over a brand new dirt surface.

From what I understand rocks are coming up from the base in the bad area near the finish line. They probably figure that if it's happening there it may be happening all over. They can probably get through a short meet with the Pro Ride. I'm sure they'll have everything in place to get the job done for the Santa Anita meet.

And then again Frank might change his mind at the meeting. :eek:

[The_Knight_Sky]

From what I understand rocks are coming up http://i33.tinypic.com/141i0iv.gif from the base
in the bad area near the finish line.




It's good to know that there is a contigency plan for running the early days
the SAX winter meet at Hollywood Park in case the new dirt track isn't ready for opening day.

I gather that they're finally going to get it right this time around.

This means no cutting corners. Everything just has to be perfect
from the plumbing, base, cushion, along with a proper test period for the horses working over it.

That way Gary Stevens can endorse it on opening day...

"If they had this stuff back then, I'd still be riding". :D

[Sericm]

I think they should go ahead with plans to run Oak Tree at Hollywood Park and start in September to rebuild the track if they are going to do it.

What is the long range weather forecast?

Sometimes the rains come early and then they will be really screwed if it starts raining in November and December!

They could be in the position where there is no meet at all!

[Stillriledup]

For the 10th time, i'll believe it when i see it.

I think if SA goes back to dirt (are you listening Frank) the SA handle will skyrocket and the DMR handle will plummet. People still bet DMR somewhat because if you follow Ca racing, all the surfaces are plastic, so its not like you can bet 4 months of dirt and then take some time off until SA reopens.

now, if SA is dirt, i believe that many will follow SA and bet the meet and then take some time off and enjoy their summer. No way you're going to attempt DMR when most horses have established dirt form at SA.

DMR's handle takes a huge hit if SA goes back to dirt imo.

[Fager Fan]

Someone's reporting that they've heard from someone at the meeting that

1) Dirt's coming back after the OTRA meet

2) Share revenue from Xpressbet with horsemen

3) New forms of exotic wagering (assuming this is Stronach's idea about a wager that provides lottery-type payouts)

[pandy]

If they go back to dirt I hope they put in a good track such as the track that Monmouth put in for the Breeders Cup. Monmouth used to look like a highway with hardly any kickback and was ridiculously speed favoring. Now it's more of a sustained surface where horses have to have class to win.

The dirt track at Santa Anita was not a good track, it was too hard and fast and cheap speed held on all the time going two turns. In sprints, the rail hardly ever won because the jockeys all busted out of the gate whipping and slashing because of the speed bias and the rail horse got crushed. I saw many two year olds making their first start draw an inside post and get scorched to a 21 and change first quarter, insane.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

If they go back to dirt I hope they put in a good track .

Track guy who is super sharp and knows SA very well told me it would be minimum $5 million, and if they really wanted to do it right, close to $10 million to rip out that crap and put in a top to bottom wonderful dirt track.

I heard they want, or are prepared, to spend $3 million tops.

So don't expect much.

[Fager Fan]

Track guy who is super sharp and knows SA very well told me it would be minimum $5 million, and if they really wanted to do it right, close to $10 million to rip out that crap and put in a top to bottom wonderful dirt track.

I heard they want, or are prepared, to spend $3 million tops.

So don't expect much.

The CHRB should pay the rest. Actually, 100% of the cost.

[Robert Goren]

For the 10th time, i'll believe it when i see it.

I think if SA goes back to dirt (are you listening Frank) the SA handle will skyrocket and the DMR handle will plummet. People still bet DMR somewhat because if you follow Ca racing, all the surfaces are plastic, so its not like you can bet 4 months of dirt and then take some time off until SA reopens.

now, if SA is dirt, i believe that many will follow SA and bet the meet and then take some time off and enjoy their summer. No way you're going to attempt DMR when most horses have established dirt form at SA.

DMR's handle takes a huge hit if SA goes back to dirt imo. I will hold you to that. I am in favor of going back to dirt and I think will help the off track handle some, I think skyrocket is too strong a term. The only thing thats going get handles to skyrocket is lower takeout rates. Ca racing was in deep trouble before they installed plastic and I see nothing that has changed from those times that going to make a difference.

[JeremyJet]

http://www.insidesocal.com/horseracing/2010/08/sources-santa-anita-going-back.html

Excerpt:

My sources all tell me that Frank Stronach will inform horsemen during a meeting at Del Mar tonight that he will install a traditional dirt track at Santa Anita immediately following the Oak Tree meet and it will be finished in time for the track's winter-spring meet that begins on Dec. 26.

Does this mean Frank will not install the Austrian surface he was talking about?

Regards,

JeremyJet

[Fager Fan]

Does this mean Frank will not install the Austrian surface he was talking about?

Regards,

JeremyJet

He was interested in how they dealt with drainage, given that has been an ongoing problem at the CA tracks. Whatever [dirt] works is fine with me.

[pandy]

I think they'll get a temporary bump in handle but the only way it will help is if the track is consistent. Overall the synthetic tracks have been very inconsistent and worse than dirt for handicapping purposes. One thing that the synthetics did in So. Cal is destroy the credibility of the clockers. The workout reports at Del Mar, for instance, are a joke but they used to be reliable when it was a dirt track, even though it was a terrible dirt track.

[andymays]

Does this mean Frank will not install the Austrian surface he was talking about?

Regards,

JeremyJet

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2010/August/18/Stronach-to-put-dirt-surface-at-Santa-Anita-in-time-for-winter-meeting.aspx

Excerpt:

by Larry Stewart

MI Developments Inc. founder and Chairman Frank Stronach seemed to score big-time points with California-based horsemen when he said that he would replace the Pro-Ride synthetic surface at Santa Anita Park with a dirt track in time for the Arcadia, California, track's December 26 opening for its winter-spring meet.

Excerpt:

He said dirt for the new track will be similar to the dirt used at the Palmermo track in Buenos Aires. :eek:


http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2010/August/18/Stronach-to-put-dirt-surface-at-Santa-Anita-in-time-for-winter-meeting.aspx

[JeremyJet]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2010/August/18/Stronach-to-put-dirt-surface-at-Santa-Anita-in-time-for-winter-meeting.aspx

The Thoroughbred Times article mentions the track will be similar to the Palmermo track in Buenos Aires. Anyone have any info on this surface?

Thanks for the links, Andy.

Regards,

JeremyJet

[andymays]

The Thoroughbred Times article mentions the track will be similar to the Palmermo track in Buenos Aires. Anyone have any info on this surface?

Thanks for the links, Andy.

Regards,

JeremyJet

Does anyone know anything about the Palermo track in Buenos Aires?

Here's something. I'm not sure this is it.

http://www.buenostours.com/palermo-hipodromo

[so.cal.fan]

Thanks, Andy,
lots of folks in Arcadia, Pasadena,Bradbury, Sierra Madre, and the Dallas,Texas area have been waiting for this report.

Appreciate it.

[andymays]

Thanks, Andy,
lots of folks in Arcadia, Pasadena,Bradbury, Sierra Madre, and the Dallas,Texas area have been waiting for this report.

Appreciate it.


Anytime. I've been waiting for almost four years. My self imposed exile will be over by the day afer Christmas. I can go back to Santa Anita again. :ThmbUp:

[andymays]

Santa Anita to get dirt track by December, Stronach says | Daily Racing Form
http://www.drf.com/news/santa-anita-get-dirt-track-december-stronach-says

Excerpt:

“We are committed to building a new dirt track,” Stronach said , receiving a round of applause . “We will do it now. We will gather the engineering and look for the materials. After Oak Tree is finished, we will have the track in place by the first week of December. The horses can train over it and we can run over it on Dec. 26.”

[DeanT]

“We are committed to building a new dirt track,” Stronach said , receiving a round of applause . “We will do it now. We will gather the engineering and look for the materials. After Oak Tree is finished, we will have the track in place by the first week of December. The horses can train over it and we can run over it on Dec. 26.”

Party at your house Andy?

Am I invited? :)

http://www.constitutioncenter.org/timeline/flash/assets/asset_upload_file998_12215.jpg

[andymays]

Party at your house Andy?

Am I invited? :)

http://www.constitutioncenter.org/timeline/flash/assets/asset_upload_file998_12215.jpg

Of course!

This is the beginning of the end for synthetic racing. At least that's my hope.

[DeanT]

Of course!

This is the beginning of the end for synthetic racing. At least that's my hope.

Someone PM'd me to say they thought you'd be happy. Otherwise I would never have known your feelings.

:)

Seriously, good for you. Hopefully you have a nice time playing the track this winter.

[JeremyJet]

Anyone make Beyer numbers for Palermo Hipodromo? Do they work there? CJ? :)

Regards,

JeremyJet

[andymays]

Someone PM'd me to say they thought you'd be happy. Otherwise I would never have known your feelings.

:)

Seriously, good for you. Hopefully you have a nice time playing the track this winter.

All my big scores happened there. There's something special about that place. Yes, I will definitely sleep better tonight knowing that the good guys finally won one. :ThmbUp: ;) :D

Now we have to get them to put in a 10% takeout early pick 4 bet. That fight will take another 4 years. I'm game. :ThmbUp:

[toussaud]

I will hold you to that. I am in favor of going back to dirt and I think will help the off track handle some, I think skyrocket is too strong a term. The only thing thats going get handles to skyrocket is lower takeout rates. Ca racing was in deep trouble before they installed plastic and I see nothing that has changed from those times that going to make a difference.
you are living inside the PA box.

handle is going to jump drastically. the avg fan is too stupid to give a shit about takeout. but they know the difference between dirt and synethics

[JeremyJet]

All my big scores happened there. There's something special about that place. Yes, I will definitely sleep better tonight knowing that the good guys finally won one. :ThmbUp: ;) :D

Andy,

We've won this battle, but there's more to be done. They all need to go away, IMHO.

Regards,

JeremyJet

[Robert Goren]

All my big scores happened there. There's something special about that place.

Now we have to get them to put in a 10% takeout early pick 4 bet. That fight will take another 4 years. I'm game. :ThmbUp:I would much rather have 10% takeout on the win pools. I would really be game for that.:ThmbUp:

[DeanT]

Now we have to get them to put in a 10% takeout early pick 4 bet. That fight will take another 4 years. I'm game. :ThmbUp:

Good luck on that one Andy. It'll be up to 24%, just in time for the opening of the new track.

[andymays]

Andy,

We've won this battle, but there's more to be done. They all need to go away, IMHO.

Regards,

JeremyJet

The Santa Anita meet has national implications for the Triple Crown and Breeders Cup. The other meets not so much. Once Santa Anita has it in the others in California will feel pressure to switch to dirt (probably not Golden Gate).

[andymays]

Good luck on that one Andy. It'll be up to 24%, just in time for the opening of the new track.

Is the increase on exotics only?

Things can happen if you know how to fight them. Of course you have to get your hands dirty (no pun intended) from time to time. ;)

You need to get 10k members. Then things can happen.

[andymays]

I would much rather have 10% takeout on the win pools. I would really be game for that.:ThmbUp:

It's gonna get worse before it gets better.

[so.cal.fan]

Aren't these tracks mostly sand?

I know years ago when tracks used to get muddy and heavy, we used to make lots of winning bets on Argentina breds on off tracks, Santa Anita to be specific.

This is very interesting, and we'll have to see what they put down at Santa Anita.

This is exciting news!

[jelly]

“We are committed to building a new dirt track,” Stronach said , receiving a round of applause . “We will do it now. We will gather the engineering and look for the materials. After Oak Tree is finished, we will have the track in place by the first week of December. The horses can train over it and we can run over it on Dec. 26.”



Great news,I can bet So.Cal again.

How much I bet depends on the Takeout.

[David-LV]

Anytime. I've been waiting for almost four years. My self imposed exile will be over by the day afer Christmas. I can go back to Santa Anita again. :ThmbUp:

Congratulations Andy for sticking to your guns and not letting this topic die on the vine. We finally won.

It was a tough struggle getting these geniuses to admit that they made a mistake, but tonight, finally.

__________
David-LV

[Stillriledup]

Congratulations Andy for sticking to your guns and not letting this topic die on the vine. We finally won.

It was a tough struggle getting these geniuses to admit that they made a mistake, but tonight, finally.

__________
David-LV

Winner Winner chicken dinner!

Lets hope they don't change their minds.

[andymays]

Congrats to everyone that fought this godforsaken crap. :ThmbUp:

I think it's time for Pro Ride and all the other synthetic crap to hit the road.

YouTube - Hit The Road Jack - Ray Charles by Hermes House Band

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8eqgAifqiQ

[David-LV]

Hopefully Harper at DMR can read the writing on the wall. He will not be able to compete with a Dirt track at Santa Anita when it comes to handle.

_________
David-LV

[v j stauffer]

Andy,

We've won this battle, but there's more to be done. They all need to go away, IMHO.

Regards,

JeremyJet

If you write "Regards Jeremy Jet" ( with your name just above your avatar ) one more time. I'm gonna shoot myself right in the face!:bang:

[Stillriledup]

If you write "Regards Jeremy Jet" ( with your name just above your avatar ) one more time. I'm gonna shoot myself right in the face!:bang:

Hold off, one face injury in your camp at a time!

(congrats on tyler coming back!)

[Indulto]

All my big scores happened there. There's something special about that place. Yes, I will definitely sleep better tonight knowing that the good guys finally won one. :ThmbUp: ;) :D

Now we have to get them to put in a 10% takeout early pick 4 bet. That fight will take another 4 years. I'm game. :ThmbUp:AM,
I'll be almost as happy as you when I see it actually happen.

We have heard this before.and we'll hear it again. Seems to me that if this were really going to happen, there could be no Oak Tree meet at SA. It wouldn't surprise me if the CHRB's surface expert recommends NOT racing on the Pro-Ride anymore, and MID knows it, but we shall see.

Would the DRF abbreviation for Oak Tree at Hollywood be OHO or OTH?;)

[Fager Fan]

Oak Tree needs to go away. They served their purpose once upon a time when there was no meet during a certain time on the calendar, so they went to the track and offered to lease the track and hold a meet during that time.

A lot of people jumped on Stronach for not wanting to renew the Oak Tree lease but it makes logical business sense. Their contract called for the lease amount to be 75% of profits. It's better to get 100% of the profits from a meet that SA could hold themselves. They don't need OTRA to hold that meet.

It's in the best interest of SA that they maximize profits yet OTRA is out competing with SA for those racing dates. They should let SA have them and support SA being successful as the one track with a committed future to S. California racing. I can think of no reason why they don't do this outside of one - the men at OTRA who draw a salary off the meet.

[beertapper]

is this going to interrupt the filming of Luck ?

[JeremyJet]

If you write "Regards Jeremy Jet" ( with your name just above your avatar ) one more time. I'm gonna shoot myself right in the face!:bang:

How ironic. I have the same urge when I hear you calling a race. :p

Regards,

JeremyJet

[andymays]

http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/sports/ci_15823258

Excerpt:

Sherwood Chillingworth, executive vice president of Oak Tree, didn't want to hazard a guess as to the outcome of those tests.

"It's (report) changed hourly just this afternoon," Chillingworth said.
"One day I hear everything is going great, and 15 minutes later they've changed their mind and it's not all right. So it's been on and off."


Read more: http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/sports/ci_15823258#ixzz0x2yj2cen

[andymays]

Santa Anita will go back to the dirt - latimes.com
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-dwyre-oak-tree-20100819,0,5656719.column

Excerpt:

Many horsemen quickly grew to hate the surfaces — the exact type of synthetic varied in brand and performance from Santa Anita to Hollywood Park to Del Mar — and sought a return to good old-fashioned dirt. In four years that movement quickly went from grumble to groundswell.

[Seabiscuit@AR]

All sounds wishy washy to me. He does not say they are building a new dirt track but they are committed to building a new dirt track

I will look forward to another 4 months of Pro-Ride from December 26th

[rrbauer]

In one fell swoop, Stronach gets rid of Oak Tree and SA's synthetic surface. Now, how can California and the rest of racing get rid of Stronach? and the CHRB.... :sleeping:

[keithw84]

When should we expect Hollywood & Del Mar to return to dirt?

[rwwupl]

Anytime. I've been waiting for almost four years. My self imposed exile will be over by the day afer Christmas. I can go back to Santa Anita again. :ThmbUp:


Andy,

Thank you for your untold amount of hours and work to bring this issue to this point. Yes, Yes, you had a lot of help too, but no one gave as much as you did to spread the light. THANK YOU.

P.S. Now that it is happening, you can expect that most were on your side all along :)

rwwupl

[Stillriledup]

When should we expect Hollywood & Del Mar to return to dirt?

Probably never with Hollywood. Their track is basically dirt as it is, they say its cushion (whatever that means) but i'm guessing its a mixture of whatever cushion is and some sort of actual dirt, it plays like dirt. Horsemen don't like to run at hollywood anyway, so i'm not sure it makes a difference what track they have over there. Can't spend a bunch of money changing the track when this place may be 6 feet under within a few years.

Del Mar on the other hand is a different story. Hopefully they'll convert back to dirt at some point and let Bing stop rolling over in his grave. Safety this safety that blah blah blah, they turned one of the most prestigious meets into a dog and pony show. Hopefully one day they'll wake up, smell the coffee and get back to reality.

[David-LV]

When should we expect Hollywood & Del Mar to return to dirt?

Handle, Handle, Handle, & Handle !!!

______
David_LV

[David-LV]

All sounds wishy washy to me. He does not say they are building a new dirt track but they are committed to building a new dirt track

I will look forward to another 4 months of Pro-Ride from December 26th

This is a quote from the meeting:

"When Oak Tree ends, we will move right in," Stronach said. "We think we can have it finished by the first week in December."

________
David-LV

[classhandicapper]

I guess it's more significant for SA to switch back to dirt than Del Mar, but I'm actually more anxious for Del Mar to go back to dirt because I love vacationing there. The synthetic racing there sort of ruined the place for me as a potential vacation spot.

[jballscalls]

Andy,

do you include Frank in your emails?

[andymays]

Andy,

do you include Frank in your emails?

I think you were on yesterdays list. There should have been at least three direct to Santa Anita for the different departments.

[jballscalls]

I think you were on yesterdays list. There should have been at least three direct to Santa Anita for the different departments.

oh goodie!

[GMB@BP]

I think you were on yesterdays list. There should have been at least three direct to Santa Anita for the different departments.

So does this dirt make it economically feasible to race in Ca?

If not this will do nothing for the product other than what little racing will occur will be more legit. Its still gonna be 7.5 horses per race.

[andymays]

oh goodie!

Think of it as a status symbol. You're special. ;)

[andymays]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/58456/stronach-santa-anita-to-have-dirt-main-track

Excerpt:

Stronach said that he will send some horses from his extensive stable, now headquartered in the East, to Santa Anita as a gesture of his commitment to the change.

[andymays]

So does this dirt make it economically feasible to race in Ca?

If not this will do nothing for the product other than what little racing will occur will be more legit. Its still gonna be 7.5 horses per race.

Right, this solves one small problem out of many.

[The_Knight_Sky]

Right, this solves one small problem out of many.


Now it is up to the CHRB to upgrade and enforce the backstretch medications policies. You know, that policy which currently allows for major horses to make (gasp) 4 or 5 starts a year.

The same that finds a Greg's Gold or a Lava Man and other similar marquee horses coming back after extensive layups that is not the norm around the country. The talented horses are out there, but so is extreme brittleness.

Addressing medication and reducing California Fair dates helps bolster
the field sizes at the major tracks.

Yesterday's card from Ferndale had a mixed meet fare.
I waited for the 5th race to finally see a t-bred race.
Then got served up a depleted $2,500 claiming affair. :ThmbDown:

This is not what the rest of the country wants to see and wager on.

[andymays]

http://chrb.ca.gov/

CHRB Meeting today August 19th!

Go to Webcasts . The meeting starts at 10:00 am pst.

[DeanT]

Nice to see the CHRB have an expert like Peterson on track surfaces testify, rather than what they do when they talk about takeout.

[v j stauffer]

How ironic. I have the same urge when I hear you calling a race. :p

Regards,

JeremyJet

:) :ThmbUp:

[andymays]

These guys scare the hell out of me (CHRB meeting). They're like a bunch of indecisive hand wringers.

[Charlie D]

Andy

Did i understand right the guy from Oak tree. He is for rip base up, make good and put Pro-Ride back down??

[andymays]

Andy

Did i understand right the guy from Oak tree. He is for rip base up, make good and put Pro-Ride back down??

It was something to do with relaying the top half of the surface I think. I have no idea why the Oak Tree guy would have any input into messing with the surface. These guys are a confusing group of people. What a mess.

[GMB@BP]

Now it is up to the CHRB to upgrade and enforce the backstretch medications policies. You know, that policy which currently allows for major horses to make (gasp) 4 or 5 starts a year.

The same that finds a Greg's Gold or a Lava Man and other similar marquee horses coming back after extensive layups that is not the norm around the country. The talented horses are out there, but so is extreme brittleness.

Addressing medication and reducing California Fair dates helps bolster
the field sizes at the major tracks.

Yesterday's card from Ferndale had a mixed meet fare.
I waited for the 5th race to finally see a t-bred race.
Then got served up a depleted $2,500 claiming affair. :ThmbDown:

This is not what the rest of the country wants to see and wager on.

medications? Seriously.

How does that mean anything to the cost to run and maintain a horse in the State of California?

[BlueShoe]

Yesterday's card from Ferndale had a mixed meet fare.
I waited for the 5th race to finally see a t-bred race.
Then got served up a depleted $2,500 claiming affair. :ThmbDown:

This is not what the rest of the country wants to see and wager on.
Ferndale is Ferndale, and is a rather unique special place that many of us enjoy and look forward to. It should not be taken seriously, this is the place where shippers from obscure little county fair tracks in small western towns are major contenders. There are a couple of active Ferndale threads that help capture the mood of this little 1/2 mile track.

[Stillriledup]

Here's what i don't get, why didnt they make this decision 2 months ago? That way, there could be a dirt track almost ready for completion, why did we drag our feet on this?

Regards,
Jer.... uh, Stillriledup.

[andymays]

STRONACH TELLS CHRB SYNTHETIC TRACKS ARE ‘VOODOO’

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/stronach-tells-chrb-synthetic-tracks-are-%E2%80%98voodoo%E2%80%99/

Excerpt:

Santa Anita Park owner Frank Stronach formally told the California Horse Racing Board on Thursday his intention to replace the Pro-Ride/Cushion Track synthetic surface at the Arcadia plant with a conventional dirt track. Stronach, who announced his decision during a Wednesday night meeting with horsemen at Del Mar, told the CHRB he thinks synthetic tracks are “voodoo.”

[andymays]

The meeting is turning into a joke.

[gm10]

I think this is a dumb move. Synthetic racing hasn't been bad for California racing. It'd been a while since their local champions managed to dominate on the national scene. The BC 2008 2009 were a huge success with zero fatalities. Handle and attendance isn't suffering more than say, Saratoga.

I hope SA keeps the Pro ride.

[Stillriledup]

I think this is a dumb move. Synthetic racing hasn't been bad for California racing. It'd been a while since their local champions managed to dominate on the national scene. The BC 2008 2009 were a huge success with zero fatalities. Handle and attendance isn't suffering more than say, Saratoga.

I hope SA keeps the Pro ride.

:eek:

[andymays]

:eek:

Don't be shocked. It's his M.O.

[exiles]

I think this is a dumb move. Synthetic racing hasn't been bad for California racing. It'd been a while since their local champions managed to dominate on the national scene. The BC 2008 2009 were a huge success with zero fatalities. Handle and attendance isn't suffering more than say, Saratoga.

I hope SA keeps the Pro ride.


You probably like the lottery too.

[Stillriledup]

So, i should have given him :bang: instead of :eek: ?

[andymays]

So, i should have given him :bang: instead of :eek: ?

There aren't enough emoticons to do him justice.

[classhandicapper]

I think this is a dumb move. Synthetic racing hasn't been bad for California racing. It'd been a while since their local champions managed to dominate on the national scene. The BC 2008 2009 were a huge success with zero fatalities. Handle and attendance isn't suffering more than say, Saratoga.

I hope SA keeps the Pro ride.

The Europeans loved Pro Ride. So it's removal will have several impacts on the future BC races there.

1. Overall, fewer Euros will ship in for the Breeder's Cup races.

2. Fewer, if any, Euros will try the Classic.

3. The Turf Classic won't be as decimated by all the Euros trying the regular Classic

[InsideThePylons-MW]

This is great stuff.

Mace just said he trains at Hol and every one of his horses is laid up due to injury from training there and that SA is better.

Liebau stands up and says get your horses out of my barn area immediately.

Get out the gloves!

These people are morons. Funny, but very sad listening to a bunch of people going down on a sinking ship due to their incompetence.

[andymays]

It's always a fiasco.

It's an episode of the Adams Family. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVRX_5tGOlo

[Charlie D]

CH


Euro's who want to win Classic, need to become like Ballydolye. Who send horses for a crack whether it's on Dirt or Pro-Ride

[keithw84]

Weren't Zenyatta's connections critical of Pro Ride? I thought I had read that somewhere.

[andymays]

Weren't Zenyatta's connections critical of Pro Ride? I thought I had read that somewhere.
http://www.insidesocal.com/horseracing/2009/10/shirreffs-synthetics-like-runn.html

Excerpt:

But guess what? Shirreffs hates the synthetics tracks. He always has, and probably always will.

"I'm more into developing young horses, and I find that young horses really don't like training on synthetic surfaces," he said. "Synthetic surfaces are like training on Velcro, where the horse's foot lands and it doesn't slide, it just sticks to the ground. Depending upon how synthetic the surface is, they can't rotate their foot into the track and push off. So if you can imagine running along flat-footed all the time without getting up on your toes and pushing off, I think that's probably about how it would feel to a human."

[DeanT]

Amazing to hear trainers come and support the synth. The last guy (did not catch his name) "We were killing horses daily on the old surface and we had four horse fields..."

Strong language from some supporters.

[andymays]

Here we go back into the abyss.

[bisket]

i read the news and had to come over to see if andy was bouncing off the walls ;)

i'm very happy your getting your track back. :ThmbUp: i just hope stronach doesn't pull the rug out from under you.

[andymays]

i read the news and had to come over to see if andy was bouncing off the walls ;)

i'm very happy your getting your track back. :ThmbUp: i just hope stronach doesn't pull the rug out from under you.

It's turning into a mess. The sythetic advocates are still lobbying to keep synthetic surfaces.

[JeremyJet]

:) :ThmbUp:

Grudges are not a healthy thing to carry around, Vic. You really need to get over it.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49665&highlight=durkin+sucks

Durkin's call of the Belmont this year was truly "memorable"

Regards,

JeremyJet

[The_Knight_Sky]

Strong language from some supporters.




For those who missed it...

Who are these "supporters" ? Names please.

[DeanT]

For those who missed it...

Who are these "supporters" ? Names please.

I am only listening in the corner of the ear. I did not hear several names.

One of them was Peter Miller, which surprised me somewhat.

[Fager Fan]

The Europeans loved Pro Ride. So it's removal will have several impacts on the future BC races there.

1. Overall, fewer Euros will ship in for the Breeder's Cup races.

2. Fewer, if any, Euros will try the Classic.

3. The Turf Classic won't be as decimated by all the Euros trying the regular Classic

All positive developments.

[andymays]

For those who missed it...

Who are these "supporters" ? Names please.

Mandella, Miller, Chew.

[letswastemoney]

CHRB denied the Oak Tree meeting at Santa Anita!! It has to move now

[andymays]

CHRB denied the Oak Tree meeting at Santa Anita!! It has to move now

It was just formality. Due to some conflicts they are doing it that way for now. The CTT and the TOC want it moved to Hollywood. They are buying time trying to get those two organizations to change their minds.

I'd make it 50/50 that they still run at Santa Anita.

If they had any friggin brains they would move it to Hollywood and get the base for the dirt surface in without rushing it.

[David-LV]

I think this is a dumb move. Synthetic racing hasn't been bad for California racing. It'd been a while since their local champions managed to dominate on the national scene. The BC 2008 2009 were a huge success with zero fatalities. Handle and attendance isn't suffering more than say, Saratoga.

I hope SA keeps the Pro ride.

Where can I buy those funny cigarettes you are smoking ??:rolleyes:

_________
David-LV

[David-LV]

Mandella, Miller, Chew.

Who cares what these idiots think, if it was not for us betters they might not be able to get a job working on a garbage truck.

All they care about is their day money, the hell with the betters.


_______
David-LV

[elhelmete]

I wonder if they'll reset the "MAIN TRACK" records for the new dirt?

[andymays]

It was just formality. Due to some conflicts they are doing it that way for now. The CTT and the TOC want it moved to Hollywood. They are buying time trying to get those two organizations to change their minds.

I'd make it 50/50 that they still run at Santa Anita.

If they had any friggin brains they would move it to Hollywood and get the base for the dirt surface in without rushing it.

I guess I stopped listening too soon. Everyone is saying Oak Tree is going Hollywood for sure. That's good. :ThmbUp:

[bane]

I wonder if they'll reset the "MAIN TRACK" records for the new dirt?

Has there been a new track record set on it?

[Indulto]

I guess I stopped listening too soon. Everyone is saying Oak Tree is going Hollywood for sure. That's good. :ThmbUp:It's the only workable alternative. The losers are Santa Anita employees unless Frank has them shoveling dirt as well,

If OHO is successful, then they will probably never go to DMR and, ironically, HOL rather than SA would get the net increase in racing dates. That might further delay the land development in Inglewood OTOH,Frank will probably get the BC in 2012.

[andymays]

It's the only workable alternative. The losers are Santa Anita employees unless Frank has them shoveling dirt as well,

If OHO is successful, then they will probably never go to DMR and, ironically, HOL rather than SA would get the net increase in racing dates. That might further delay the land development in Inglewood OTOH,Frank will probably get the BC in 2012.

Did you listen in? There were parts of the meeting you couldn't believe. I could beel the tension in the room and I wasn't even there. Guys like Dr. Rick Arthur were losing it.

[andymays]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/58471/oak-tree-headed-for-hollywood-after-all

Excerpt:

Commissioner Jerry Moss was left scratching his head over the entire issue.

"I don't get it, to tell you the truth. I don't get what's the big deal about transferring Oak Tree to Hollywood Park for one year, if that's what the majority want to do. This could provide a spark for Hollywood Park. I don't think you are going to hurt Mr. Stronach's feelings by leaving."

[Indulto]

Did you listen in? There were parts of the meeting you couldn't believe. I could beel the tension in the room and I wasn't even there. Guys like Dr. Rick Arthur were losing it.No, but I'll try to catch the archive. I really want to hear the "expert testimony."

Frankly (pun intended) I'm still skeptical that this will happen unless MID gets something from somebody besides a chorus of "For he's a jolly good fellow."

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm suspicious of this whole "have to travel to Spain" to find a dirt track. I'm also concerned about reports of them wanting to do this on the cheap.

Anyone else think they may be trading for nothing but a different set of headaches?

[BluegrassProf]

I think this is a dumb move. Synthetic racing hasn't been bad for California racing. It'd been a while since their local champions managed to dominate on the national scene. The BC 2008 2009 were a huge success with zero fatalities. Handle and attendance isn't suffering more than say, Saratoga.

I hope SA keeps the Pro ride.Badoom-crash!

A round of applause for the resident comic, folks! Come back and see us again tomorrow night; he'll be here all week - have a good night and don't forget to tip!

[The_Knight_Sky]

No, but I'll try to catch the archive. I really want to hear the "expert testimony."




Is there a link to a transcript up yet?

Thanks much. :ThmbUp:

[BluegrassProf]

I'm suspicious of this whole "have to travel to Spain" to find a dirt track. I hate to read too much into things, but heck if I wasn't thinking precisely the same thing...

[The_Knight_Sky]

I hate to read too much into things, but heck
if I wasn't thinking precisely the same thing...




But it's not coming from Espana. It's coming from Argentina. Big difference.

One has a better futbol team.

I just wish I knew which of the two it is. :D

[andymays]

I'm suspicious of this whole "have to travel to Spain" to find a dirt track. I'm also concerned about reports of them wanting to do this on the cheap.

Anyone else think they may be trading for nothing but a different set of headaches?

He said he wanted to copy The Palermo Track in Buenos Aires whatever that means.

http://www.buenostours.com/palermo-hipodromo

[PaceAdvantage]

But it's not coming from Espana. It's coming from Argentina. Big difference.

One has a better futbol team.

I just wish I knew which of the two it is. :DAhh...my mistake...same difference... :lol:

But Stronach DID reference Spain back in June when he was searching for a dirt track...that is what I was thinking of:

“It has silica sand and fibers, the best ever for horses,” said Stronach of the subsurface irrigation system that impressed him at the Dos Lunas Dressage and Polo center in Spain http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2010/June/22/Stronach-Oak-Tree-reach-compromise-over-2010-dates.aspx

Did they have to go that far because of weather concerns? I don't think the weather in Argentina (which is quite varied depending on how far north or south you go) is very comparable to the weather in S. California...so why this need to travel?

[andymays]

Ahh...my mistake...same difference... :lol:

But Stronach DID reference Spain back in June when he was searching for a dirt track...that is what I was thinking of:

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2010/June/22/Stronach-Oak-Tree-reach-compromise-over-2010-dates.aspx

Did they have to go that far because of weather concerns? I don't think the weather in Argentina (which is quite varied depending on how far north or south you go) is very comparable to the weather in S. California...so why this need to travel?

I'm pretty sure they're putting in a traditional dirt surface. Not the one with the underground watering system.

[plainolebill]

Looks like Oak Tree is definitely running at Hollywood this year. From DRF:

CHRB Nixes Oak Tree at Santa Anita (http://www.drf.com/news/chrb-nixes-oak-tree-santa-anita)

[BlueShoe]

But it's not coming from Espana. It's coming from Argentina.
Does that mean actually importing soil from South America? Do they know just how far away Argentina is, and how expensive it would to be to transport by ship the hundreds of tons of dirt that would be required to build the track?

[ezpace]

successful builder of a warm climate*MAJOR* dirt track in the last 20 years .

IOW , Who can build one?? MON doesn't count.. I'm

a dirt racing and TURF RACING!!! 40yr


FAN. GET tHE DOPE ENFORCEMENT *TAKE OUT* AND TRACK SURFACE RIGHT

RACING HAS A CHANCE.

[Fager Fan]

I'm suspicious of this whole "have to travel to Spain" to find a dirt track. I'm also concerned about reports of them wanting to do this on the cheap.

Anyone else think they may be trading for nothing but a different set of headaches?

I like that they seem to have done a lot of research into the best direction to go. And it flies in the face of the idea that he's trying to do this "on the cheap" which sounds like nothing more than rumors spread by Stronach detractors to me. The man's never done anything on the cheap. He built Palm Meadows which people rave over as the best training facility in the country. When they redid Laurel, people raved about the track surface he put in. People may not like some of his facility design, but they've never complained about the track surfaces except for the synth at SA.

It defies logic that Stronach's going to do anything but put in the best dirt surface he can.

[BluegrassProf]

...sounds like nothing more than rumors spread by Stronach detractors to me.

...It defies logic that Stronach's going to do anything but put in the best dirt surface he can.I heart the polarization of these things - "Stronach detractors?" Really really? How long 'til "haters" gets tossed out there? C'mon GM, you know you want to...

But seriously, folks. Stronach doing something silly? Definitely defines logic. Deeefinitely.


*facepalm*

[Fager Fan]

I heart the polarization of these things - "Stronach detractors?" Really really? How long 'til "haters" gets tossed out there? C'mon GM, you know you want to...

But seriously, folks. Stronach doing something silly? Definitely defines logic. Deeefinitely.


*facepalm*

You really want to claim that there aren't Stronach detractors out there? It's one thing to constructively criticize something or someone and another to toss grenades at everything someone does. There are people who are definitely in the latter camp as it regards Stronach.

In this case, they've got to completely tear out what's there, including the base, and therefore put in a new base and surface, all to the tune of $5 to $6 million. Where is the logic in spending that kind of money to do something half-ass that's going to cost you millions if you do it half-ass?

I'll again point out that while there can be justified criticism of some of Stronach's plans and/or facilities, he's also done some things very right. The idea that he's going to put in a half-ass dirt track sounds like an idea straight from the Stronach detractors.

I don't say "haters." I don't care to think and talk like a 12yo.

[Pick6]

Does that mean actually importing soil from South America? Do they know just how far away Argentina is, and how expensive it would to be to transport by ship the hundreds of tons of dirt that would be required to build the track?
All I believe they want to get from the South America track is the right mix of sand/silt/clay/organic material that makes up their surface. Most likely these base materials are widely available in CA.

The most important concerns are:
-keeping rocks out of the mix;
-drainage;
-ability to seal to satisfy 5 days/week racing. Too much clay and it turns into concrete when it's sealed.

Foundation should be fine. I don't think that was ever changed when they installed poly.

[DeanT]

I agree Fager. He does not want to have a crap surface. If we remember, the old SA surface was not exactly peachy. TUP with a similar surface and climate was washed away last year for days. That is a weird climate - for poly or the old dirt. I hope they find something more consistent and that can handle that climate and is better for the horses than the old one was.

[elhelmete]

Did they have to go that far because of weather concerns? I don't think the weather in Argentina (which is quite varied depending on how far north or south you go) is very comparable to the weather in S. California...so why this need to travel?

Comparing months in which SA and Palermo historically run (incl October for OSA), I found some rudimentary historical averages for Sierra Madre, CA and Buenos Aires (both using the closest weather station that Google says is near each track):

Santa Anita is...

Average hi temp is 0.9 degrees cooler
Average lo temp is 5 degrees cooler
Average precip is 0.5" drier

pretty darn close except for the cold mornings.

[tubesockshakur]

the big diff. may be humidity??

[beertapper]

wasn't it Bruce Headley that said the CA tracks went downhill when they started introducing sawdust / wood chips into the track ?

[Pick6]

Comparing months in which SA and Palermo historically run (incl October for OSA), I found some rudimentary historical averages for Sierra Madre, CA and Buenos Aires (both using the closest weather station that Google says is near each track):

Santa Anita is...

Average hi temp is 0.9 degrees cooler
Average lo temp is 5 degrees cooler
Average precip is 0.5" drier

pretty darn close except for the cold mornings.
This is certainly a solid first order approximation for what SA will need. Other factors will come into play, such as exposure to sun, wind, amount of racing, suitability of racing all-year (which is what Stronach appears to want there), trainer preferences, etc.

[andymays]

wasn't it Bruce Headley that said the CA tracks went downhill when they started introducing sawdust / wood chips into the track ?

Yes.

[andymays]

Jeremy Plonk: Dr. Phil couldn't help Santa Anita - ESPN
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=plonk_jeremy&id=5479731

Excerpt:

In the end, no one trusted what the next person was saying. Even facts became emotional; and when you have that, you're done communicating.

[thespaah]

I think this is a dumb move. Synthetic racing hasn't been bad for California racing. It'd been a while since their local champions managed to dominate on the national scene. The BC 2008 2009 were a huge success with zero fatalities. Handle and attendance isn't suffering more than say, Saratoga.

I hope SA keeps the Pro ride.:p

[FenceBored]

How much of the cost of of switching tracks is going to be the disposal of the current cushion material? I'm thinking specialized disposal at an inflated price tag.

[andymays]

How much of the cost of of switching tracks is going to be the disposal of the current cushion material? I'm thinking specialized disposal at an inflated price tag.

I know where they could shove it for free! ;)