Leparoux's Ride In Race 5

[PhantomOnTour]

TVG just did a nice little close up on Leparoux aboard 18-1 bomb Connie Mac in the 5th at Sar. Did he fall asleep? Did his glance at the bigscreen give him the idea he was home free? My bets were up the track and had no stake in the outcome, but looks to me like he got a little complacent, to say the least.
Ramon nails him at the line.

[JBmadera]

TVG just did a nice little close up on Leparoux aboard 18-1 bomb Connie Mac in the 6th at Sar. Did he fall asleep? Did his glance at the bigscreen give him the idea he was home free? My bets were up the track and had no stake in the outcome, but looks to me like he got a little complacent, to say the least.
Ramon nails him at the line.

typical deal where a jock is thinking and/or watching the big screen TV instead of riding.......Nothing in this game makes me crazier than jocks not riding their mounts out to the finish....everyone wants to be Terrel Owens......:ThmbDown:

and before the jock/big name horse homers jump in - this is just my opinion.

[redshift1]

Leparoux is not one to be complacent, horse was probably all out. Let's see what the PDF chart says.

[therussmeister]

The chart agrees with PhantomOnTour.

http://www1.drf.com/drfPDFChartRacesIndexAction.do?TRK=SAR&CTY=USA&DATE=20100818&RN=5

[shhail2]

i had the pick 3 finishing with the 6 for 850 dollars and got nailed at the wire. Needless to say i was mad at lep for not riding the horse to the wire. With the amount he lost by there is no doubt he would have won he geered the horse down near the wire..

[Robert Fischer]

wow almost made a big play on Cornelius McGillicuddy.
one i had been following

ouch @ the chart

[sammy the sage]

Hell....you think that was bad...just look at Garcia in the 3rd vs the 8th...like TWO DIFFERENT jocks...he's been DOING that the entire meet!

[toussaud]

Man I thought i was the only one that caught that. he should have won that race. put it in cruise control and got caught.

[horses4courses]

I did not see Race 5, but I did watch the previous one.

Leparoux timed his finish to perfection on a Wesley Ward horse, and held on by a head over a Dutrow horse who had been bet down to favorite.
It may have been Dominguez on the runner-up, I can't recall.
Whoever it was, Leparoux out-rode him in the final quarter mile.

The next race may not have been his best.

The highs and lows of race riding..........

[Grits]

This one hurt, indeed! I absolutely hung my head. :faint:

[Fager Fan]

He knew the other horse was coming. This is called letting TVG commentators influence your opinion. The chart caller too. How often do you see those kinds of comments in a chart?

[the little guy]

I really think you all need to watch the ENTIRE race.

At no point is he even, theoretically, " trying " with this horse....which has to make you ask WHY. In other words, he didn't ride any differently late than he did at any point beforehand, so what was really going on. Given that no rider is riding better than Leparoux at this meeting, and I can't recall anybody EVER calling his integrity into question, thus perhaps people are actually missing the bigger picture. Believe me, I don't " know " anything, or have a particular theory, but I also firmly believe that there was nothing amiss. Every ride is not the same, and every horse shouldn't be ridden the same, and the entirety of this ride is different than you see on most every horse....so ask yourself why before condemning the guy.

[thaskalos]

I really think you all need to watch the ENTIRE race.

At no point is he even, theoretically, " trying " with this horse....which has to make you ask WHY. In other words, he didn't ride any differently late than he did at any point beforehand, so what was really going on. Given that no rider is riding better than Leparoux at this meeting, and I can't recall anybody EVER calling his integrity into question, thus perhaps people are actually missing the bigger picture. Believe me, I don't " know " anything, or have a particular theory, but I also firmly believe that there was nothing amiss. Every ride is not the same, and every horse shouldn't be ridden the same, and the entirety of this ride is different than you see on most every horse....so ask yourself why before condemning the guy.Correct me if I am wrong...but are you saying that - eventhough he was not "really trying" with this horse at any point in the race - he should be forgiven because he is riding better than anyone at this meet, and also because his integrity has never been questioned in the past?

We know that not all horses should be ridden the same...but I thought that a reasonable effort was expected from ALL the jockeys capable of winning the race.

He fails to "try" with a horse that loses right on the wire...and yet, "there was nothing amiss"?

[the little guy]

Correct me if I am wrong...but are you saying that - eventhough he was not "really trying" with this horse at any point in the race - he should be forgiven because he is riding better than anyone at this meet, and also because his integrity has never been questioned in the past?

We know that not all horses should be ridden the same...but I thought that a reasonable effort was expected from ALL the jockeys capable of winning the race.

He fails to "try" with a horse that loses right on the wire...and yet, "there was nothing amiss"?


No, I am saying that everything, especially in racing, is not as it appears...and thus just because it may look like less than full effort is being given does not make it the case. In this case, he was trying, but not necessarily in the way that appears most obvious. The entire picture presents at least this possibility...and actually the likelihood. He handled this horse carefully, to say the least, the entire way around. Has anybody actually taken the time to look at her pps? She aint exactly Kelso.

[thaskalos]

No, I am saying that everything, especially in racing, is not as it appears...and thus just because it may look like less than full effort is being given does not make it the case. In this case, he was trying, but not necessarily in the way that appears most obvious. The entire picture presents at least this possibility...and actually the likelihood. He handled this horse carefully, to say the least, the entire way around. Has anybody actually taken the time to look at her pps? She aint exactly Kelso.Andy...the question is not whether or not she is like Kelso.

The question is...would she have won if she wasn't handled this "carefully"?

[redshift1]

I'm willing to give him a pass. I've never seen him whip a horse excessively under any circumstances and we all know every great rider makes the occasional mistake.

[only11]

He rides just like Pat"i wait all"Day,Day lost thoudands photos due to his riding style..
TLG... JULIEN RIDING THE BEST @ SPA...HMMMM I GUESS CASTELLANO AND VELASQUEZ DONT COUNT?

[Headbanger]

He rides just like Pat"i wait all"Day,Day lost thoudands photos due to his riding style..
TLG... JULIEN RIDING THE BEST @ SPA...HMMMM I GUESS CASTELLANO AND VELASQUEZ DONT COUNT?

Apparently your brain doesn't work much no matter what time. As has been mentioned time and time again is so very true at the meet at Saratoga more than anywhere, riders success and "winning percentage" is very much about their mounts and their opportunity more than anything at this meet. Just because Velazquez and Castellano have a flashy winning percentage doesn't mean much because Velazquez has won on numerous even money shot 2YOs for Pletcher. So while Leparoux might not be winning as much as them, he me theoretically be riding better because he may be getting better finishes out of horses who don't figure as much into a race than the mounts of Velazquez and Castellano because he's not riding horses that are as good or as live as their mounts.

[JBmadera]

No, I am saying that everything, especially in racing, is not as it appears...and thus just because it may look like less than full effort is being given does not make it the case. In this case, he was trying, but not necessarily in the way that appears most obvious. The entire picture presents at least this possibility...and actually the likelihood. He handled this horse carefully, to say the least, the entire way around. Has anybody actually taken the time to look at her pps? She aint exactly Kelso.

I have just implemented a policy here which I use frequently on my job, before I press send on an email (or post), I go walk outside, take a few laps around the pool, then come back in and re-read what I have written. If I am being critical of someones thoughts or opinions I delete the email (or post).

So on that note, congrats tlg on your selection of Glacier Bay yesterday

[the little guy]

Andy...the question is not whether or not she is like Kelso.

The question is...would she have won if she wasn't handled this "carefully"?


My guess is she would have finished well up the track if ridden in an apparently more aggressive manner.

Look, maybe I am wrong, but every horse isn't most effective when ridden in exactly the same manner. For example, there are plenty of horses that don't like the whip, and in fact these horses will constantly underperform until this is recognized ( assuming it is ever realized ). Does that mean the jockey was at fault when he hand rode the horse only to lose a photo?

[Stillriledup]

I'm guessing he'll get a 3 day suspension for not riding his mount out to the line. I read this topic before i saw the race, so i didnt know what to expect when i pulled up this tape, interesting to say the least.

Sometime horses totally stop when hit with the whip, this filly was running her hiney off all the way, Lep smacked her once hard with the stick and then went to the hand ride, maybe he felt that she resented the whip and started to slow down? Maybe if he never hit her at all she would have won easily? In my opinion she was running as hard as she could and then when she got hit, she might have just got mad and chucked it.

At any rate, i think she wins if she's beaten to a pulp in the final yards, but jocks like this are so great they can make a horse travel at a very high rate of speed while under a long hold. This filly was smoking and running her eyeballs out all the way. Normally i'm very critical of jocks not riding out to the line, but in this case, i think this filly tried hard all the way and just got nailed, what can you do except hope you had a place bet.

[classhandicapper]

When I saw that race live, I just shook my head in disbelief.

IMO there are really only two possibilities.

Either he thought he had the race won and made a severe error in judgment or something is amiss with that horse. If it's the latter, perhaps he felt something he didn't like and thought going all out would put the horse and him at risk.

Some horses may not like the whip, but I never heard of a horse that doesn't like to be urged. He didn't even try hard.

[the little guy]

I am amazed that nobody has even commented on that horse's unusual running style.

Honestly, seeing what you want to see, as opposed to being open to a number of possibilities, can't possibly serve you well.

[PhantomOnTour]

I am amazed that nobody has even commented on that horse's unusual running style.

Honestly, seeing what you want to see, as opposed to being open to a number of possibilities, can't possibly serve you well.
What was unusual about her running style? She pressed the pace or led in her races overseas in sprints, and she contested the pace at CD in June in a turf sprint. So she went to the lead yesterday...what's unusual about that?

Bottom line imo is that Leparoux relaxed into an easy hand ride about 50yds out while flagging her. Then he saw Ramon and began scrubbing with both hands in the last few strides. Got nailed. I am not raising any questions about how he rode her until the last 50yds or so. Everything was great up until then. Just my opinion.

Speaking of Leparoux...anyone think his pick-up mount in the 1st has a board shot at odds? Fourth Chapter(#3) can really close well on her day, and has had pedestrian paces in her last two....ofcourse she is only 3-35 lifetime.

[Dahoss9698]

What was unusual about her running style? She pressed the pace or led in her races overseas in sprints, and she contested the pace at CD in June in a turf sprint. So she went to the lead yesterday...what's unusual about that?

Bottom line imo is that Leparoux relaxed into an easy hand ride about 50yds out while flagging her. Then he saw Ramon and began scrubbing with both hands in the last few strides. Got nailed. I am not raising any questions about how he rode her until the last 50yds or so. Everything was great up until then. Just my opinion.

I think he means the horses action. She has a pretty awkward way of moving. Head is real low and short, choppy strides.

[PhantomOnTour]

I think he means the horses action. She has a pretty awkward way of moving. Head is real low and short, choppy strides.
In the future I woud appreciate a more European description of her action, such as "she has a rather convoluted way of going" or something like that :lol:

My mistake; guess I misunderstood what TLG meant by 'running style'.

[Dahoss9698]

Speaking of Leparoux...anyone think his pick-up mount in the 1st has a board shot at odds? Fourth Chapter(#3) can really close well on her day, and has had pedestrian paces in her last two....ofcourse she is only 3-35 lifetime.

If he inner turf is playing like it did yesterday I think it's going to be tough for anyone to make up any ground in that race.

[PhantomOnTour]

Rail at 18ft on the inner really helps speed also.

Whoa...twilight zone...this thread is gettin freaky.
TLG just picked Fourth Chapter in the 1st (with you know who up). He really does like Leparoux! Caution though, he is one jock I cannot get right with, so hopefully I am not dooming you TLG!

More twilight...TLG picked my Lukas horse in the 2nd as well.

[thaskalos]

My guess is she would have finished well up the track if ridden in an apparently more aggressive manner.

Look, maybe I am wrong, but every horse isn't most effective when ridden in exactly the same manner. For example, there are plenty of horses that don't like the whip, and in fact these horses will constantly underperform until this is recognized ( assuming it is ever realized ). Does that mean the jockey was at fault when he hand rode the horse only to lose a photo?I may be wrong too...but when I see a jockey nearing the finish line in contending position...and his hands are not vigorously moving forward on the horse...then I start harboring dark suspicions.

[classhandicapper]

I am amazed that nobody has even commented on that horse's unusual running style.

Honestly, seeing what you want to see, as opposed to being open to a number of possibilities, can't possibly serve you well.

What's so unusual about her running style that you can't urge a horse rigorously throughout the last 3/16ths of a mile?

He was riding and urging the horse mid stretch. He tapped her a few times and looked like he had the race won. Then he eased up just a little bit and got beat.

To me, he either blew it or knows something is amiss with this horse.

I think you are looking for something that does not exist. Sometimes people just make mistakes.

[Fager Fan]

If the horse is already running as fast as it can run, hitting it with the stick's not going to make it run faster.

A good jockey knows how much horse he has under him and how much they're giving, and they're not going to beat up on a horse who's already giving her all.

[Robert Fischer]

If the horse is already running as fast as it can run, hitting it with the stick's not going to make it run faster.


Look, maybe I am wrong, but every horse isn't most effective when ridden in exactly the same manner. For example, there are plenty of horses that don't like the whip, and in fact these horses will constantly underperform until this is recognized ( assuming it is ever realized ). Does that mean the jockey was at fault when he hand rode the horse only to lose a photo?

long story - plz skip


so THIS YEAR im watching this important well meant filly run
and she a lookin GOOD -
CLEARS THE FIELD bold move
Opens up EASILY
and in the final 1/16th she jumps the damn shadows and changes leads.
No big deal. END OF STORY. STOP READING. I'M SERIOUS.

I was watching this I believe 3yo filly(i believe... (it could be a f'n colt for Gordon Gekko's sake) hard for a total recall of any random of my thousands of live watch list horses dispersed in 200 horse-limit sectors without so much as a search function (time to take it offline?? and do it myself?)...
[sidenote: how do horseplayers recal the darndest SPECIFIC details? it's uncanny at times we know the weather that day we hit the big tri and maybe the teller we bought it from where we were sitting...]

holy shit!
- either ginkgo and caffeine broke a blood clot broke loose (in the right direction for GG's sake) or these experimental Hawking1 neuro-capillary systems are actually starting to work...

i'm watching the MFing Dwyer Stakes and FLY DOWN (P.S. he's a lock;) for the Belmont if you haven't heard (lol P.P.S. don't tell those idiots who think ASSBOX did any running at all in KYD)) [forgive if I'm a bit behind calendar dating]

so I'm watching FLY DOWN in the DWYER and w/ everything Zito has put into him (training, i'm talking training boys c'mon)

and I see where he JUMPED THE SHADOWS in the final 1/16th.
happens all the time.
and im still in LUST with the bold ****ing move where he buried horses like SOARINGEMPIRE AND CARNIVORE with(i admit that i'm now using charts and replays, Stephen is just in the beta version w/ this shit & besides cerebral spinal fluid is nothing to gamble with).

so where tha **** are the SHADOWS?? im searching all over cursing my 240-360 estimated feed quality, and then i see it aint a shadow, It's Jose's final hard right hand(s? god don't make me rewind again) after he had already been fully extended that causes FLY DOWN to "shy-away". I am optimistic that the switch from whip-happy j.Lezcano to "Gentle John" Velazquez will be a huge benefit in the Belmont Stakes. This horse is as game as they come and if he could ever get out of the paws of a conservative hay-oats-water outfit like Zito, he'd have some real chances at stakes glory and passing on strong genes.

[only11]

Apparently your brain doesn't work much no matter what time. As has been mentioned time and time again is so very true at the meet at Saratoga more than anywhere, riders success and "winning percentage" is very much about their mounts and their opportunity more than anything at this meet. Just because Velazquez and Castellano have a flashy winning percentage doesn't mean much because Velazquez has won on numerous even money shot 2YOs for Pletcher. So while Leparoux might not be winning as much as them, he me theoretically be riding better because he may be getting better finishes out of horses who don't figure as much into a race than the mounts of Velazquez and Castellano because he's not riding horses that are as good or as live as their mounts.
Of course i understood what he meant but castellano hasnt had THE ELITE horses like most...
There isnt a better rider at the spa then Castellano..period.

[Dahoss9698]

Going to be hard to top the last two posts in this thread.

[bitter]

without knowing what the real issue was (if there was one to begin with), do you think he put his best effort in trying to win that race? thats why i understand how some people feel cheated, it simply looks like he fell asleep at the wheel, and when the chalk got near he tried to pick the horse back up.
i had no dog in the hunt, but if i did i would feel as though the jock didn't put his best foot forward in trying to hold on and win that race. unless the horse has some sort of problems (physically), really no excuse not to ride out to the finish, unless you're kent d.

[Fager Fan]

without knowing what the real issue was (if there was one to begin with), do you think he put his best effort in trying to win that race? thats why i understand how some people feel cheated, it simply looks like he fell asleep at the wheel, and when the chalk got near he tried to pick the horse back up.
i had no dog in the hunt, but if i did i would feel as though the jock didn't put his best foot forward in trying to hold on and win that race. unless the horse has some sort of problems (physically), really no excuse not to ride out to the finish, unless you're kent d.

Sometimes people should use logic and reason.

The winning purse was $31,200 and second place was $10,400. Do you really think that he prefered to take home 5% of $10,400 ($520) over 10% of $31,200 ($3,120)? Or do you really think prior to the race that he knew his 18-1 shot was going to be in a position to win nearing the wire, and that he had set up some betting coup that required that his horse finish second? So now that we've ruled out those two options based on common sense, the only option left, outside of doing the best he could whether or not that means being human and making a mistake, is that he was taking care of the horse. Taking care of the horse may be at odds with betting sometimes, but there's no rational argument for not taking care of the horse. Besides, what hurts one bettor helps another.

[bitter]

Sometimes people should use logic and reason.

The winning purse was $31,200 and second place was $10,400. Do you really think that he prefered to take home 5% of $10,400 ($520) over 10% of $31,200 ($3,120)? Or do you really think prior to the race that he knew his 18-1 shot was going to be in a position to win nearing the wire, and that he had set up some betting coup that required that his horse finish second? So now that we've ruled out those two options based on common sense, the only option left, outside of doing the best he could whether or not that means being human and making a mistake, is that he was taking care of the horse. Taking care of the horse may be at odds with betting sometimes, but there's no rational argument for not taking care of the horse. Besides, what hurts one bettor helps another.

you should probably use some logic as well, b/c never did i suggest this was some sort of coup or fix.

if you're gonna take care of the horse fine, but why try and shake the reins when you're getting passed? im sure people have less of a problem coming to grips with the horse being out of gas or taken care of, its the fact that he look like he fell asleep is what i and others have a problem with.

as far as your last sentance goes, it offers zero logic or excuse

[snoadog]

Has anyone ever thought: "Jeez did that jock have to urge his horse that hard?..... Was it really necessary for him to win by 20 lengths?"

[Robert Fischer]

Going to be hard to top the last two posts in this thread.

it's hard got dam work

[cj]

long story - plz skip


so THIS YEAR im watching this important well meant filly run
and she a lookin GOOD -
CLEARS THE FIELD bold move
Opens up EASILY
and in the final 1/16th she jumps the damn shadows and changes leads.
No big deal. END OF STORY. STOP READING. I'M SERIOUS.

I was watching this I believe 3yo filly(i believe... (it could be a f'n colt for Gordon Gekko's sake) hard for a total recall of any random of my thousands of live watch list horses dispersed in 200 horse-limit sectors without so much as a search function (time to take it offline?? and do it myself?)...
[sidenote: how do horseplayers recal the darndest SPECIFIC details? it's uncanny at times we know the weather that day we hit the big tri and maybe the teller we bought it from where we were sitting...]

holy shit!
- either ginkgo and caffeine broke a blood clot broke loose (in the right direction for GG's sake) or these experimental Hawking1 neuro-capillary systems are actually starting to work...

i'm watching the MFing Dwyer Stakes and FLY DOWN (P.S. he's a lock;) for the Belmont if you haven't heard (lol P.P.S. don't tell those idiots who think ASSBOX did any running at all in KYD)) [forgive if I'm a bit behind calendar dating]

so I'm watching FLY DOWN in the DWYER and w/ everything Zito has put into him (training, i'm talking training boys c'mon)

and I see where he JUMPED THE SHADOWS in the final 1/16th.
happens all the time.
and im still in LUST with the bold ****ing move where he buried horses like SOARINGEMPIRE AND CARNIVORE with(i admit that i'm now using charts and replays, Stephen is just in the beta version w/ this shit & besides cerebral spinal fluid is nothing to gamble with).

so where tha **** are the SHADOWS?? im searching all over cursing my 240-360 estimated feed quality, and then i see it aint a shadow, It's Jose's final hard right hand(s? god don't make me rewind again) after he had already been fully extended that causes FLY DOWN to "shy-away". I am optimistic that the switch from whip-happy j.Lezcano to "Gentle John" Velazquez will be a huge benefit in the Belmont Stakes. This horse is as game as they come and if he could ever get out of the paws of a conservative hay-oats-water outfit like Zito, he'd have some real chances at stakes glory and passing on strong genes.

Are you off your meds or something?

[Robert Fischer]

Are you off your meds or something?
c'mon

ch'mon!!

ch'mon!! C!

take out your samurai sword and shave my butt

[cj]

I'll take that as a yes.