Are off shore accounts really worth it?

[Igeteven]

I use Youbet.com, however, here in California, I am sick and tired of supporting out of state players that get a rebate from a legal ADW.

Here in California, the Horse Racing Commission wants to support other players who play out of State that bet on a ADW.

Can anyone who uses it, can state an opinion on this.

[lamboguy]

those are all stupid california rules. this is another part of the structure of the game that is wrong, and why i say that racing needs to govern itself just like the nfl does, not the state. your beef is not with ubet or anyother adw, its with the state of california. betting with illegal bookmakers is illegal for you no matter where you live in the united states. if they wanted to the feds could prosecute you for money laundering and and illegal gambling the way the laws sit right now. so far there have been very few legit players prosecuted under these statutes but there have been some.

[Igeteven]

just found this on the internet. This is just for information only, I have no opinion on this.


Top 10 Reasons why people Chose Offshore

1) No state-to-state wagering restrictions. You can bet on any U.S. track at reliable offshore race books.

2) Bonuses. Offshore race books have incredible volume. More and more customers are joining because of sign-up bonuses, re-deposit bonuses, and referral bonuses.

3) Rebates of up to 7% on amount bet. After a hard week of wagering, no matter if you are winning or losing, reputable offshore race books provide you up to 7% back on your total bets.

4) No FEES EVER. Offshore race books do not have parking, do not have municipalities-to answer to, and don't have expensive auto-tote machines. They want your wagers and will NOT charge you for placing them.

5) NON-PARIMUTUEL. Offshore race books actually take your bets and do not place them in the racetrack pool. Parimutuel means that your wager will be pooled with the other wagers at the track, This pool will be divided among the people holding winning tickets, the jockey, the trainer, the owner, the track, and various tax jurisdictions. Therefore every single wager placed effect the win pool in a negative manner. This means that large bettors have incentives to bet offshore so that they do not hurt their win pools. By betting at a non-parimutuel wagering facility (like offshore wagering) you enhance your ability to win larger sums.

6) Online. Offshore race books offer easy and secure online wagering from the comfort of your own home. You can even watch the races on your computer.

7) Safe, Secure, and Confidential. Offshore racebooks do not require you to leave your house, use the latest encryption technology (same as large banks online) and have no incentive or obligation to share your data with the government or others.

8) Wagering options. Offshore race books often offer sports and other wagering options with the same account.

9) NO TAXES. Offshore race books operate on a no-tax or tax-holiday basis. This is reflected directly in the fact that you are not obligated by your offshore racebook to report or pay taxes.

10) The fact is, if you are playing at a track or simulcast facility you are not giving yourself the best chance of coming out on top. As a matter of fact, taking into account that you get NO bonus incentives to play, you get no rebate, and you pay taxes on your winnings; it is amazing that you can walk away from the track a winner.

[Robert Goren]

3 reason not play off shore
1) Money transfers are a hassle and sometimes costly.
2) If you win too much they will close your account.
3) They can go out of business with no warning.

I am not saying not to do it, but it is not always wine and roses.

[therussmeister]

3 reason not play off shore
1) Money transfers are a hassle and sometimes costly.
2) If you win too much they will close your account.
3) They can go out of business with no warning.

I am not saying not to do it, but it is not always wine and roses.
4) If you hit a long shot, you won't get full price.

[BetCrazyGirl]

those are all stupid california rules. this is another part of the structure of the game that is wrong, and why i say that racing needs to govern itself just like the nfl does, not the state. your beef is not with ubet or anyother adw, its with the state of california. betting with illegal bookmakers is illegal for you no matter where you live in the united states. if they wanted to the feds could prosecute you for money laundering and and illegal gambling the way the laws sit right now. so far there have been very few legit players prosecuted under these statutes but there have been some.

I'm really confused when it comes to the laws on adws, gambling and state stuff. So using youbet.com is illegel if you are in California? That's what I've been using.

[Igeteven]

I'm really confused when it comes to the laws on adws, gambling and state stuff. So using youbet.com is illegel if you are in California? That's what I've been using.

I live in California, and yes, Youbet is legal, however, we don't get any rebates from Youbet, out of State players, do from Youbet. With the takeout that goes to the adw's, I paying for it.

[Dave Schwartz]

You must make a distinction between "playing off-shore" and playing with a "legal, parimutuel, off-shore racebook."

The guys you are talking about are essentially, illegal bookmakers in the eyes of the U.S. government.

You can get the same deal with an illegal bookmaker inside the U.S. And it also comes with similar consequences.

In fact, the consequences can be much worse if you play without any advance deposit.


Dave

[BetCrazyGirl]

The guys you are talking about are essentially, illegal bookmakers in the eyes of the U.S. government.


Dave

Are the guys we are talking about are youbet? Or something completely different.

[Turkoman]

3 reason not play off shore
1) Money transfers are a hassle and sometimes costly.
2) If you win too much they will close your account.
3) They can go out of business with no warning.

I am not saying not to do it, but it is not always wine and roses.

With an offshore account, your money's always in the air. I mean, how in the world will you know they'll still be open for business tomorrow, when you wake up again? Or next week? Too risky for my taste.

Turkoman

[lamboguy]

I'm really confused when it comes to the laws on adws, gambling and state stuff. So using youbet.com is illegel if you are in California? That's what I've been using.its legal in california as far as i know, but there is no rebate to california customers due to california law

[Stillriledup]

RG is right, if you're a winning player, offshore will refuse your business. They only want losers since they're booking the bets.

[cnollfan]

just found this on the internet. This is just for information only, I have no opinion on this.


Top 10 Reasons why people Chose Offshore

1) No state-to-state wagering restrictions. You can bet on any U.S. track at reliable offshore race books.

2) Bonuses. Offshore race books have incredible volume. More and more customers are joining because of sign-up bonuses, re-deposit bonuses, and referral bonuses.

3) Rebates of up to 7% on amount bet. After a hard week of wagering, no matter if you are winning or losing, reputable offshore race books provide you up to 7% back on your total bets.

4) No FEES EVER. Offshore race books do not have parking, do not have municipalities-to answer to, and don't have expensive auto-tote machines. They want your wagers and will NOT charge you for placing them.

5) NON-PARIMUTUEL. Offshore race books actually take your bets and do not place them in the racetrack pool. Parimutuel means that your wager will be pooled with the other wagers at the track, This pool will be divided among the people holding winning tickets, the jockey, the trainer, the owner, the track, and various tax jurisdictions. Therefore every single wager placed effect the win pool in a negative manner. This means that large bettors have incentives to bet offshore so that they do not hurt their win pools. By betting at a non-parimutuel wagering facility (like offshore wagering) you enhance your ability to win larger sums.

6) Online. Offshore race books offer easy and secure online wagering from the comfort of your own home. You can even watch the races on your computer.

7) Safe, Secure, and Confidential. Offshore racebooks do not require you to leave your house, use the latest encryption technology (same as large banks online) and have no incentive or obligation to share your data with the government or others.

8) Wagering options. Offshore race books often offer sports and other wagering options with the same account.

9) NO TAXES. Offshore race books operate on a no-tax or tax-holiday basis. This is reflected directly in the fact that you are not obligated by your offshore racebook to report or pay taxes.

10) The fact is, if you are playing at a track or simulcast facility you are not giving yourself the best chance of coming out on top. As a matter of fact, taking into account that you get NO bonus incentives to play, you get no rebate, and you pay taxes on your winnings; it is amazing that you can walk away from the track a winner.

11. The state you live in does not allow legal online parimutuel wagering.

[bigmack]

RG is right, if you're a winning player, offshore will refuse your business. They only want losers since they're booking the bets.
Balderdash. How long has Bookmaker.com been around, parented by betCRIS International... '85 and you need to worry about them going out of business?

You guys big enough/good enough betters to worry they'll turn your business away? :D

A DAILY rebate of 8% is paid on exotic bets. 3% on all Win, Place and Show wagers, and deposit bonuses.

http://www.bookmaker.com/

[Robert Goren]

Say what you want, but I really doubt that they don't who their winning betters are. I once saw a casino kick a guy for card counting. He was playing at $5 min. table and largest bet I saw him make was $15. I got to believe that no matter how small a better you are, once they figure out that you are a consistent winner you are gone.

[bigmack]

Say what you want, but I really doubt that they don't who their winning betters are. I once saw a casino kick a guy for card counting. He was playing at $5 min. table and largest bet I saw him make was $15. I got to believe that no matter how small a better you are, once they figure out that you are a consistent winner you are gone.
Say what I want? How are you able to say anything without experience and then bringing-up an analogy to card counting?

[slew101]

If you do your homework, you don't have to worry about your money. It's 99 percent safe with the top shops offshore. The problem is bettors are naive and go chasing 100 percent bonuses with books that have no history, then complain when they go under or they can't get paid.

Most offshore spots don't have ridiculous limits for payouts, and I think most don't even accept Pick 6 tickets, only Pick 3 and Pick 4s, so the odds of a "huge score" are pretty rare to begin with.

[Igeteven]

11. The state you live in does not allow legal online parimutuel wagering.


Yes, California does, however, no rebates

[Dave Schwartz]

Are the guys we are talking about are youbet? Or something completely different

Well, if you have an offshore account from the US it is either from one of the two biggest legal betting shops around - which means you are wagering at least $1m per year (because they won' take you otherwise) - or you are playing with a non-parimutuel bookmaker.

Type two is illegal.

Those are the alternatives when you speak of "offshore."

[BlueShoe]

RG is right, if you're a winning player, offshore will refuse your business. They only want losers since they're booking the bets.
Okay, how about an offshore that is parimutuel, large long established with a top reliability rating, gives rebates. Would that work? Or does such a site even exist?

[lamboguy]

Okay, how about an offshore that is parimutuel, large long established with a top reliability rating, gives rebates. Would that work? Or does such a site even exist?
the only 2 legit rebate shops that i know are elite and rgs. one of them is operated by kirk brooks. they take the bets over the phone and all the wagers go through the oregon hubs. as far as i know there are alot of tracks that they do not have a contract with like nyra, the canadien tracks, and tampa bay downs, deleware and finger lakes and probably a few more, i haven't played with either of them in over 3 years now, when i did play i was with irg which was a subsidiary of ubet at the time, and they got into legal trouble with a group of players that supposedly laundered money. 2 of them i know went to jail on federal charges.

that is why i highly don't recomend betting with offshore bookmakers. if you feel it imperitive and necessary i highly suggest you give up betting on horseracing and take up a new hobby or vocation which ever it is for you.

the way our govenment is set up today, it is basically impossible to get away with any type of criminal proceedings that involve transfers of money or anything that is geared to circumvent any tax law on the books. the weapons the govenment uses are highly sofisticated these days and very few know the exact tools they use to grab you for any wrongdoing. in short what i am trying to say is please don't try to outsmart this government, they may not be able to find a guy that is 6'11" that travels from one hut to another and needs dialysis for his kidney OSAMA BIN LADEN, but that doesn't mean they aren't pros at catching you for doing the smallest of wrong things.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Say what I want? How are you able to say anything without experience and then bringing-up an analogy to card counting?
A friend of mine was cut off with an offshore bookie because he was winning too much playing horses. He forwarded me the letter. They were more than happy though to take his sports betting action and poker play (though he didn't play poker), but they barred him from betting horses.

[lamboguy]

A friend of mine was cut off with an offshore bookie because he was winning too much playing horses. He forwarded me the letter. They were more than happy though to take his sports betting action and poker play (though he didn't play poker), but they barred him from betting horses.
its legal in canada. many people used to play with pinacle, they shut off us residents and then shut off horses alltogether. i hear they are back in business

[Horseplayersbet.com]

its legal in canada. many people used to play with pinacle, they shut off us residents and then shut off horses alltogether. i hear they are back in business
Yes it is legal, but the offshore bookies will cut off consistent winners.

[lamboguy]

Yes it is legal, but the offshore bookies will cut off consistent winners.
i got shut off in every casino in las vegas when it was non parimutual racing. a matter of fact i beat the oriental palace on a $200 bet at laurel once on a first time starter and they wouldn't pay me and i had a winning ticket. they claimed i fixed the race and it too me 6 months to get paid after the nevada gaming commision heard my case and decided i did nothing wrong.

i had another incident with on a wager at longachres. i had a buddy that owned a horse running there and he gave me $500 to bet in the book. the book called the track and the track spoke to the trainer making sure nothing was going on. they also called the FBI. to make a long story short, the horse ran dead last all the way around the track.

those bookmakers are all the same, when you lose they become your best friend, when you win they make faces at you. what they really want is for you to drop off the money and never come back to pick it up. i am full of stories about what went on in the dessert. dave schwartz must have plenty too.

[rwwupl]

Balderdash. How long has Bookmaker.com been around, parented by betCRIS International... '85 and you need to worry about them going out of business?

You guys big enough/good enough betters to worry they'll turn your business away? :D

A DAILY rebate of 8% is paid on exotic bets. 3% on all Win, Place and Show wagers, and deposit bonuses.

http://www.bookmaker.com/
------------------------------------------------------------------
California and other rebate and signal restricted jurisdictions should take notice and learn to compete!

I wonder how much revenue the takeout recipients are losing because the bettors are seeking a better deal in jurisdictions with rebate and signal restrictions... not additional takeout increases?


Additional information provided by the website:



http://www.bookmaker.com/racebook-betting.aspx

Rebate Program1. A DAILY rebate of 8% will be paid on all internet exotic bets. 3% on all Win, Place and Show wagers. 5% on exotic wagers and 2% on Win, Place and Show bets placed through the call center. There are no minimum weekly betting requirements and there is no maximum on how much you can earn
2. No rebate will be given on cancelled wagers refunded due to a scratch.
3. Win, Place and Show wagers that pay $2.20 to $2 or less are not eligible for a rebate.
4. Virtual Racing wagers are not eligible for the rebate.
5. All Harness and Dog wagers do not receive rebates.

Welcome to the New BetPoints™ Rewards ProgramBetPoints™ is our new loyalty program that rewards our members for playing with BookMaker.com. No matter how small your bankroll is, you'll earn valuable BetPoints™ every time you bet sports, casino, or poker. The more you play, the more rewards you will earn. BetPoints™ accumulate in your BookMaker account until you decide to redeem them in exchange for great rewards such as cash back, gift cards, airline miles, BookMaker merchandise, and more!
Plus, earn valuable daily Cash Rebates on your horse wagers, win or lose![/B]
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[SchagFactorToWin]

I live in California, and yes, Youbet is legal, however, we don't get any rebates from Youbet, out of State players, do from Youbet.
I used YouBet. The rebates are a joke. The cash rebate is less than 1%. But I feel your pain with CA not allowing you to get any at all.

[Robert Goren]

I am going too be frank about this. If think you are not getting high enough rebates because of the state you live in and you bet enough money that it puts a serious dent into your bottom line, you need to look at moving to another state. There are posters on this site who have done just that.

[GaryG]

I took a pretty big hit in the Hinsdale fiasco, so I was nervous about dealing with anyone that was not gold plated. Took the Bookmaker plunge recently and it has been fine....so far at least.

[cj]

To answer the original question, I would say yes, it is worth it if you do your homework. Given the state of betting in the US it is absolutely worth the risks you take in my opinion.

I will also say that some do cut off winners, while others do not. Maybe they will eventually but that hasn't been the case everywhere. It isn't great advertising if you cut off everyone that wins.

[BlueShoe]

Up until this point have never made a single wager online, have always been a brick & mortar, paper & pen guy. However, it is past time to fully utilize the computer age and go adw, at least part of the time. This is where the uncertainty and hesitation sets in. Which adw, and why? As a California resident my choices seem rather limited. First off, would prefer to not violate the law, not real comfortable about that, sure as heck do not want trouble with the feds, the IRS for sure. However, the offer of rebates with a reliable offshore is quite tempting, and that brings up another issue, reliability. The possibility of having my funds vanish or not getting paid not good. Am not a big bettor, so not sure about being cut off if winning. Lurking and reading the posts on the adw forum and here has not clarified the situation, there are many differing opinions. Have considered two accounts, one California legal and a smaller offshore rebate shop. Sure as hell would help if the feds, all the states, and all the competing sites would get together and come to a mutual agreement on policies, but will we ever see this happen?

[Irish Boy]

9) NO TAXES. Offshore race books operate on a no-tax or tax-holiday basis. This is reflected directly in the fact that you are not obligated by your offshore racebook to report or pay taxes.

This is technically true but dangerous. You still have to pay taxes on the winnings, even if they don't withhold. Maybe the IRS never finds out, but that's a risk that could potentially end in federal prison.

[Igeteven]

This is technically true but dangerous. You still have to pay taxes on the winnings, even if they don't withhold. Maybe the IRS never finds out, but that's a risk that could potentially end in federal prison.

federal prison

maybe better then going to the track :lol: :lol: :lol: