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View Full Version : Obamanomics - The picture and headline say it all


menifee
08-11-2010, 03:39 PM
http://www.ajc.com/multimedia/dynamic/00647/section8_647971c.jpg (http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/30-000-line-up-589653.html)
Crowds swarm at Tri-Cities Plaza in East Point on Wednesday morning as people try to apply for Section 8 housing.

hcap
08-11-2010, 05:05 PM
I guess they all parked their Cadillacs around the block.
And the women were smart enough to bring their fur coats into the dry cleaners and made sure the deeds to their Caribbean estates were out of sight.

Welfare queens are just getting smarter.

Pell Mell
08-11-2010, 06:34 PM
I guess they all parked their Cadillacs around the block.
And the women were smart enough to bring their fur coats into the dry cleaners and made sure the deeds to their Caribbean estates were out of sight.

Welfare queens are just getting smarter.

Your close.:D

Overlay
08-11-2010, 07:20 PM
Crowds swarm at Tri-Cities Plaza in East Point on Wednesday morning as people try to apply for Section 8 housing.

All those people have been declared mentally unfit for military service? ;)

hcap
08-11-2010, 07:56 PM
All those people have been declared mentally unfit for military service? ;)Certainly not. Particularly the women with young children and babies and soon to be in homeless shelters. Damn freeloaders.

Mike at A+
08-11-2010, 08:31 PM
Good case for birth control.

cj's dad
08-11-2010, 08:38 PM
Good case for birth control.Or castration - isn't it strange that most of the people shown are... oh never mind !!

hcap
08-11-2010, 08:45 PM
Good case for birth control.
You guys can always try eugenics. Hitler did

Tom
08-11-2010, 08:53 PM
Actually, you will find that in Obama-care, for those under 3 and over 60.
If you read his health care advisers, you will find many links to the nazi thinking and the early 20th century progressives.

mostpost
08-11-2010, 09:17 PM
Or castration - isn't it strange that most of the people shown are... oh never mind !!

:rolleyes: Nothing worse than a never mind. Just sit at home all day and collect welfare. Then they expect free housing. They should all go back to Nevermindland. :rolleyes:

Mike at A+
08-11-2010, 09:17 PM
You guys can always try eugenics. Hitler did
A little responsibility works for me. I was never a big Hitler fan.

cj's dad
08-11-2010, 09:27 PM
:rolleyes: Nothing worse than a never mind. Just sit at home all day and collect welfare. Then they expect free housing. They should all go back to Nevermindland. :rolleyes:

Gee Mostie - tell me who are they !!

hcap
08-11-2010, 09:43 PM
A little responsibility works for me. I was never a big Hitler fan.Selective birth control is eugenics. Maybe you guys can have anyone needing government assistance prove to Off Topic horse racing pundits they are not thieves. For that matter apply the same test to the 10s of 1000's of white collar crooks who steal huge as compared to your exaggerated mythical welfare queen- lying manipulating bankers for example-and then sterilize them all.

Tom
08-11-2010, 09:46 PM
Perhaps the bottom line is don't have kids if you can't afford to raise them.

Tom
08-11-2010, 09:48 PM
...lying manipulating bankers for example-and then sterilize them all.

You mean the ones Obama keeps bailing out?

boxcar
08-11-2010, 10:04 PM
Gee Mostie - tell me who are they !!

The clueless ObamaBucks groupies who don't know and don't care from whom the bucks are coming.

Boxcar

Mike at A+
08-11-2010, 10:18 PM
Selective birth control is eugenics.
Silly me. I always viewed selective birth control as the cure for unwanted pregnancies.

menifee
08-11-2010, 10:20 PM
You know what's interesting - when I posted this post, I did not even focus on the race of the people in the photo. Didn't even see it. I just found it ironic that after a year and a half of Obama, you had 30k people lining up for subsidized housing. Despite all the handouts (Obamacare, financial reform, HAMP, stimulus), the poor get poorer. Why? Because government cannot create wealth, it can only destroy it or redistribute it. Obama's policies have redistributed some, but it has destroyed much more. So get used to scenes like this.

Now mostpost and hcap do the typical Liberal dance and suggest that any criticism or commenting about Obamanomics is about race. How sad that they are so conditioned that all they see is race.

BenDiesel26
08-11-2010, 10:32 PM
You guys can always try eugenics. Hitler did

For a more up to date version of the eugenics you speak of, read the works of John Holdren, current Obama science czar, who spoke of unknowingly putting a sterilant in drinking water. Good call though hcap. I can see him being compared to Hitler, it would make sense based on the current administrations vetting processes. Go check out his book Ecoscience.

Here's a link to the OBAMA SCIENCE CZAR'S OWN BOOK (http://www.amazon.com/Ecoscience-Population-Environment-Paul-Ehrlich/dp/0716700298/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1281580177&sr=8-1).

Here's a passage for you, a discussion of the social "evolution" you spoke of in another thread:

Adding a sterilant to drinking water or staple foods is a suggestion that seems to horrify people more than most proposals for involuntary fertility control. Indeed, this would pose some very difficult political, legal, and social questions, to say nothing of the technical problems. No such sterilant exists today, nor does one appear to be under development. To be acceptable, such a substance would have to meet some rather stiff requirements: it must be uniformly effective, despite widely varying doses received by individuals, and despite varying degrees of fertility and sensitivity among individuals; it must be free of dangerous or unpleasant side effects; and it must have no effect on members of the opposite sex, children, old people, pets, or livestock.

How about this tidbit on the ultimate progressive goal:

Perhaps those agencies, combined with UNEP and the United Nations population agencies, might eventually be developed into a Planetary Regime — sort of an international superagency for population, resources, and environment. Such a comprehensive Planetary Regime could control the development, administration, conservation, and distribution of all natural resources, renewable or nonrenewable… The Planetary Regime might be given responsibility for determining the optimum population for the world and for each region and for arbitrating various countries' shares within their regional limits.

hcap
08-12-2010, 05:59 AM
Science Czar John Holdren

1- Professor Holdren was unanimously confirmed as President Obama's Science Czar on March 20, 200
So all the repugs thought he was qualified. A bipartisan confirmation

2-

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/obamas_science_czar_does_not_support_coercive_popu lation_control_spokesman_says/


In Tuesday e-mails to CNA, Rick Weiss, the Office of Science and Technology Policy’s Director of Strategic Communications, said the material at issue was from “a three-decade-old, three-author textbook used in colleges to teach energy policy.”

He could “easily dismiss” fears that Dr. Holdren favors government control over population growth.

“He made that quite clear in his confirmation hearing,” Weiss said.

He then quoted a section of the confirmation transcript in which Sen. David Vitter (R-LA) asked Holdren whether he thinks “determining optimal population is a proper role of government.”

“No, Senator, I do not,” was Holdren’s reply, according to Weiss and a transcript of the proceedings.

In other remarks at the confirmation hearing, not cited by Weiss, Holdren told Sen. Vitter he no longer thinks it is “productive” to focus on the “optimum population” for the United States. “I don't think any of us know what the right answer is.”

According to Weiss, Holdren “made clear that he did not believe in coercive means of population control” and is not an advocate for measures expressed in the book “and they are certainly not endorsed by this administration in any way.”

Weiss also provided CNA with a statement from the book's other two authors, Paul and Anne Ehrlich.

The Ehrlichs said they had been “shocked” at what they called the “serious misrepresentation” of their and Holdren’s views.

“We were not then, never have been, and are not now 'advocates' of the Draconian measures for population limitation described -- but not recommended -- in the book's 60-plus small-type pages cataloging the full spectrum of population policies that, at the time, had either been tried in some country or analyzed by some commentator.”

Mike at A+
08-12-2010, 08:31 AM
You know what's interesting - when I posted this post, I did not even focus on the race of the people in the photo. Didn't even see it. I just found it ironic that after a year and a half of Obama, you had 30k people lining up for subsidized housing. Despite all the handouts (Obamacare, financial reform, HAMP, stimulus), the poor get poorer. Why? Because government cannot create wealth, it can only destroy it or redistribute it. Obama's policies have redistributed some, but it has destroyed much more. So get used to scenes like this.

Now mostpost and hcap do the typical Liberal dance and suggest that any criticism or commenting about Obamanomics is about race. How sad that they are so conditioned that all they see is race.
They're so used to playing the race card that it's second nature.

Tom
08-12-2010, 10:52 AM
1 - who cares?
2 - he lies.

mostpost
08-12-2010, 11:59 AM
You know what's interesting - when I posted this post, I did not even focus on the race of the people in the photo. Didn't even see it. I just found it ironic that after a year and a half of Obama, you had 30k people lining up for subsidized housing. Despite all the handouts (Obamacare, financial reform, HAMP, stimulus), the poor get poorer. Why? Because government cannot create wealth, it can only destroy it or redistribute it. Obama's policies have redistributed some, but it has destroyed much more. So get used to scenes like this.

Now mostpost and hcap do the typical Liberal dance and suggest that any criticism or commenting about Obamanomics is about race. How sad that they are so conditioned that all they see is race.
Are you blind? Post #7 CJsDad said:
Or castration - isn't it strange that most of the people shown are... oh never mind !!
Are you telling me he was not referring to the race of the people in the picture? If not then what was he referring to? What other characteristic do they have in common that could be determined by looking at the picture? Maybe he meant most of the people are standing up. Yeah, Right. :rolleyes:

Of course he didn't come out and say African Americans, he does not have the guts to say what he really thinks, but it is clear that is what he was referring to.

mostpost
08-12-2010, 12:42 PM
Why? Because government cannot create wealth, it can only destroy it or redistribute it.
I see this written here all the time. It's one of those articles of faith that conservatives are so in love with. And like most (all?) of their articles of faith it is wrong.
You don't create wealth just by producing something. A toaster sitting on the shelf in a warehouse is not wealth. It is potential wealth. It requires a buyer to turn it into wealth.
The stimulus works by financing various projects. A road needs to be built or repaired. A school needs to be modernized. A new sewer system needs to be installed to prevent flooding. These are projects that the local community can't afford by itself. So the Federal Government provides stimulus funds to subsidize the cost. The local entity puts the job out for bid and ABC Roadbuilders wins the contract. ABC looks around and says, "This is a big job, I'm going to have to hire fifty people to do this job."
Fifty people now have a job who did not have a job before. Because they did not have a job before they begin making purchase they were previously unable to make.
The local Target gets busier and Target hires extra sales associates. Target sees that men's work shirts are flying off the shelf and orders more from the (American) manufacturer.
The (American) manufacturer adds a shift to his factory and......well you get the idea.

Now, as sure as I'm the best looking guy in my entire living room, you are going to come back and say, "But, but, all of that is paid for by my tax dollars, you are just taking my money and redistributing it to some one else,"

There was a song many years ago about a prospector traveling through the desert. He came across a well and a pump. On the pump was a large jar filled with water and a note. The note said, "This pump works, but she has to be primed. Pour the jar of water into the pump and you will be rewarded with bountiful water, enough to slake your thirst and fill your canteens to overflowing. BUT, mind you refill the jar so the next person has water to prime the pump."

This is what the stimulus is doing. It is priming the pump to the benefit of all.
If it has not yet succeeded it is because we are being niggardly in priming the pump. The song said "Pour the jar of water" not half the jar, the whole jar.

GameTheory
08-12-2010, 01:04 PM
I see this written here all the time. It's one of those articles of faith that conservatives are so in love with. And like most (all?) of their articles of faith it is wrong.
You don't create wealth just by producing something. A toaster sitting on the shelf in a warehouse is not wealth. It is potential wealth. It requires a buyer to turn it into wealth.
The stimulus works by financing various projects. A road needs to be built or repaired. A school needs to be modernized. A new sewer system needs to be installed to prevent flooding. These are projects that the local community can't afford by itself. So the Federal Government provides stimulus funds to subsidize the cost. The local entity puts the job out for bid and ABC Roadbuilders wins the contract. ABC looks around and says, "This is a big job, I'm going to have to hire fifty people to do this job."
Fifty people now have a job who did not have a job before. Because they did not have a job before they begin making purchase they were previously unable to make.
The local Target gets busier and Target hires extra sales associates. Target sees that men's work shirts are flying off the shelf and orders more from the (American) manufacturer.
The (American) manufacturer adds a shift to his factory and......well you get the idea.

Now, as sure as I'm the best looking guy in my entire living room, you are going to come back and say, "But, but, all of that is paid for by my tax dollars, you are just taking my money and redistributing it to some one else,"

There was a song many years ago about a prospector traveling through the desert. He came across a well and a pump. On the pump was a large jar filled with water and a note. The note said, "This pump works, but she has to be primed. Pour the jar of water into the pump and you will be rewarded with bountiful water, enough to slake your thirst and fill your canteens to overflowing. BUT, mind you refill the jar so the next person has water to prime the pump."

This is what the stimulus is doing. It is priming the pump to the benefit of all.
If it has not yet succeeded it is because we are being niggardly in priming the pump. The song said "Pour the jar of water" not half the jar, the whole jar.And this analysis, like almost all flawed economic analyses, is flawed because it recognizes that which is seen and ignores that which is unseen. You see those 50 new jobs, but you don't recognize the 50 or more jobs lost (or never created) by taking the tax money in the first place. And then when it doesn't work, you cry because it wasn't enough! Biggest intervention in history doesn't work -- it needs to be bigger! That makes sense...

(And don't you know you can lose your job for saying "niggardly"?)

menifee
08-12-2010, 01:05 PM
I see this written here all the time. It's one of those articles of faith that conservatives are so in love with. And like most (all?) of their articles of faith it is wrong.
You don't create wealth just by producing something. A toaster sitting on the shelf in a warehouse is not wealth. It is potential wealth. It requires a buyer to turn it into wealth.
The stimulus works by financing various projects. A road needs to be built or repaired. A school needs to be modernized. A new sewer system needs to be installed to prevent flooding. These are projects that the local community can't afford by itself. So the Federal Government provides stimulus funds to subsidize the cost. The local entity puts the job out for bid and ABC Roadbuilders wins the contract. ABC looks around and says, "This is a big job, I'm going to have to hire fifty people to do this job."
Fifty people now have a job who did not have a job before. Because they did not have a job before they begin making purchase they were previously unable to make.
The local Target gets busier and Target hires extra sales associates. Target sees that men's work shirts are flying off the shelf and orders more from the (American) manufacturer.
The (American) manufacturer adds a shift to his factory and......well you get the idea.

Now, as sure as I'm the best looking guy in my entire living room, you are going to come back and say, "But, but, all of that is paid for by my tax dollars, you are just taking my money and redistributing it to some one else,"

There was a song many years ago about a prospector traveling through the desert. He came across a well and a pump. On the pump was a large jar filled with water and a note. The note said, "This pump works, but she has to be primed. Pour the jar of water into the pump and you will be rewarded with bountiful water, enough to slake your thirst and fill your canteens to overflowing. BUT, mind you refill the jar so the next person has water to prime the pump."

This is what the stimulus is doing. It is priming the pump to the benefit of all.
If it has not yet succeeded it is because we are being niggardly in priming the pump. The song said "Pour the jar of water" not half the jar, the whole jar.

The multiplier effect for this stimulus was essentially 0. I think history is bearing that out. The stimulus was nothing more that a bailout of state budget deficits with federal deficits. Temporary government spending (that you subsidize through debt) and temporary tax cuts (that you subsidize through debt) don't lead to sustained economic growth. What Keynesians don't understand is that future expectations play a huge role. Investors and small businesses don't invest and don't create jobs if they see that the future cost of labor and doing business (Obamacare, Obama fiscal reform, and future taxes) will be onerous.

cj's dad
08-12-2010, 01:26 PM
Are you blind? Post #7 CJsDad said:

Are you telling me he was not referring to the race of the people in the picture? If not then what was he referring to? What other characteristic do they have in common that could be determined by looking at the picture? Maybe he meant most of the people are standing up. Yeah, Right. :rolleyes:

Of course he didn't come out and say African Americans, he does not have the guts to say what he really thinks, but it is clear that is what he was referring to.

Obamanomics - The picture and headline say it all
http://www.ajc.com/multimedia/dynamic/00647/section8_647971c.jpg (http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/30-000-line-up-589653.html)
Crowds swarm at Tri-Cities Plaza in East Point on Wednesday morning as people try to apply for Section 8 housing.

A picture is worth 1000 words; besides, how do I know what race the folks here are ? You seem to be the one hung up on that subject.

I can't distinguish an African American from one of Haitian or Dominican or or Jamaican or Indian or Pakistani etc.... descent.

As for having the guts to post what I think ? :lol:

You're so easy if you were a woman you'd be knocked up every 9 months.:lol:

mostpost
08-12-2010, 02:42 PM
The multiplier effect for this stimulus was essentially 0. I think history is bearing that out. The stimulus was nothing more that a bailout of state budget deficits with federal deficits. Temporary government spending (that you subsidize through debt) and temporary tax cuts (that you subsidize through debt) don't lead to sustained economic growth. What Keynesians don't understand is that future expectations play a huge role. Investors and small businesses don't invest and don't create jobs if they see that the future cost of labor and doing business (Obamacare, Obama fiscal reform, and future taxes) will be onerous.
The CBO disagrees with you.
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/115xx/doc11525/05-25-ARRA.pdf
The Document is titled:
Estimated Impact of the American
Recovery and Reinvestment Act on
Employment and Economic Output from
January 2010 Through March 2010
Table 2 on page 14 shows which aspects of the stimulus affect the recovery and how much they affect it. You should take particular note of the fact that Government spending on projects and purchases has a positive effect of 1 to 2.5.
What does this mean? The CBO explains it thus:
CBO estimates that a one-time increase of $1 in
federal purchases of goods and services in one calendar
quarter last year would raise GDP above what it would
otherwise be by a total of $1 to $2.50 over several quarters.
That cumulative multiplier of $2.50 on federal purchases
comprises increases in GDP of roughly $1.45 in
the quarter when the spending occurs, roughly 60 cents
in the following quarter, and roughly 45 cents in later
quarters combined.
Also note that the least effective factor in affecting the recovery is TAX CUTS.

ArlJim78
08-12-2010, 03:04 PM
When the government is involved, the mulitplier is ALWAYS less than one. The stimulus was nothing more than a payoff, burning off some of Obama's early political capital in order to ring the cash register. To strike while the iron was hot so to speak and capitalize on the crisis by not letting it go to waste.
they knew such a large heist would have to be done early on, that's why it was priority one. he'll never again garner such blind faith as he did way back when last february.

mostpost
08-12-2010, 03:05 PM
Obamanomics - The picture and headline say it all
http://www.ajc.com/multimedia/dynamic/00647/section8_647971c.jpg (http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/30-000-line-up-589653.html)
Crowds swarm at Tri-Cities Plaza in East Point on Wednesday morning as people try to apply for Section 8 housing.

A picture is worth 1000 words; besides, how do I know what race the folks here are ? You seem to be the one hung up on that subject.

I can't distinguish an African American from one of Haitian or Dominican or or Jamaican or Indian or Pakistani etc.... descent.

As for having the guts to post what I think ? :lol:

You're so easy if you were a woman you'd be knocked up every 9 months.:lol:
Your ignorance is appalling. Or maybe your appallingnous is caused by your ignorance.
Biology 101. There are three races on planet earth. Mongolian, Caucasian, and Negroid. All else are variations on a theme. There is no Hispanic race. Hispanic is a nationality. (Or a group of nationalities.) No one belongs to the African American race. They belong to the African American nationality. Most, if not all, African Americans belong to the Negroid race. That is a scientific term, though it can be used in a derogatory fashion.

There is no Haitian race, no Dominican race, no Jamaican race, no Indian race, no Pakistani race. For you to say you can't determine the race of the people in the picture and then claiming you do not know if they are Americans or Hailtians or Dominicans or Jamaicans or Pakistanis or Indians, is indicative of either ignorance or dishonesty. I will leave it up to you to decide how you want to be known.

mostpost
08-12-2010, 03:07 PM
When the government is involved, the mulitplier is ALWAYS less than one. The stimulus was nothing more than a payoff, burning off some of Obama's early political capital in order to ring the cash register. To strike while the iron was hot so to speak and capitalize on the crisis by not letting it go to waste.
they knew such a large heist would have to be done early on, that's why it was priority one. he'll never again garner such blind faith as he did way back when last february.
:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: I knew that using facts would have zero effect on your opinion. :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

bigmack
08-12-2010, 03:29 PM
I knew that using facts would have zero effect on your opinion.
Facts? What fantasy world are you living in?

You look to a government agency to support your position for a government agency and you were a government employee for umpteen years! - Odd how that worked out :eek:

Don't believe all you read. If you don't believe me, just ask the double D of the CBO:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/8_12_10_12_24_21.jpg

http://teristirades.blogspot.com/2009/07/cbos-wrong-more-than-its-right.html

ArlJim78
08-12-2010, 03:32 PM
:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: I knew that using facts would have zero effect on your opinion. :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

So in your world CBO estimates are considered facts?
the mulitpliers cited have been thoroughly debunked as hogwash.
Of course that would never sway your opinion since you're not looking for facts, only blind fealty to the discarded and failed concepts of central planning and collectivism.

menifee
08-12-2010, 03:55 PM
The CBO disagrees with you.
htp://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/115xx/doc11525/05-25-ARRA.pdft (http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/115xx/doc11525/05-25-ARRA.pdf)
The Document is titled:

Table 2 on page 14 shows which aspects of the stimulus affect the recovery and how much they affect it. You should take particular note of the fact that Government spending on projects and purchases has a positive effect of 1 to 2.5.
What does this mean? The CBO explains it thus:

Also note that the least effective factor in affecting the recovery is TAX CUTS.

Don't disagree with you about temporary tax cuts. Only permanent tax cuts can create economic growth. Cash for clunkers, first time home buyers credit - all of it is a waste of federal tax dollars if you are trying to grow the economy. The government is just reallocating wealth and changing the timing of decisions with programs like these, it is not creating wealth in the long term because it cannot.

Even if I were to accept the CBO numbers, which I do not, it is interesting to note that this reports that as reported by the recipients of those funds 680k full time jobs were created or retained using stimulus funds. Two-thirds in education! For the most part, all the stimulus did in terms of jobs was bail out the budget shortfalls of the states for the year and preserve public employees' jobs (mainly teachers' jobs). What happens next year and the year after when those funds are no longer available?

fast4522
08-12-2010, 05:49 PM
None of this means squat, we can argue with each other all we want but in the end in November the rage will be too much for this party to sustain.

cj's dad
08-12-2010, 07:07 PM
Your ignorance is appalling. Or maybe your appallingnous is caused by your ignorance.
Biology 101. There are three races on planet earth. Mongolian, Caucasian, and Negroid. All else are variations on a theme. There is no Hispanic race. Hispanic is a nationality. (Or a group of nationalities.) No one belongs to the African American race. They belong to the African American nationality. Most, if not all, African Americans belong to the Negroid race. That is a scientific term, though it can be used in a derogatory fashion.

There is no Haitian race, no Dominican race, no Jamaican race, no Indian race, no Pakistani race. For you to say you can't determine the race of the people in the picture and then claiming you do not know if they are Americans or Hailtians or Dominicans or Jamaicans or Pakistanis or Indians, is indicative of either ignorance or dishonesty. I will leave it up to you to decide how you want to be known.[/QUOTE]

I will leave it up to you to decide how you want to be known.


As someone who pisses you off !!!:lol:

There are three races on planet earth. Mongolian, Caucasian, and Negroid.

No shite Sherlock !! The point is that when I look at a black person I do not think of them as being AF. American. All folks of color originated from somewhere else- most here in the USA were born here- this AA bulls--t is beyond being rational. Not one single person alive was a slave or a slave owner. :sleeping::sleeping:

If one is Irish/Polish/German ancestry so what !!! who the frig cares, yet when a discussion involves blacks, the race card is ALWAYS brought up by you fools on the left

One last point Mostie- you are are the one who spent your life sucking on the Govt's teet at the expense of taxpayers. I didn't. I worked privately for a company(ies) that derived their resources from the free market, not from other taxpayers. USPS - alosing proposition always !!

Is your guilt as a leech on the dole pissing you off ?? :D

JustRalph
08-12-2010, 09:51 PM
Your ignorance is appalling. Or maybe your appallingnous is caused by your ignorance.

This sentence: "Your ignorance is appalling." followed by this "Or maybe your appallingnous" may be one of the funniest things I have read in a long while........ Amazing.......!

Mosty, you are so far in the bag, tank, etc for socialist Dems that you show up on Obama's Colonoscopy

Tom
08-12-2010, 10:23 PM
:lol:Ralph.....beer tent...this week. :lol:

newtothegame
08-12-2010, 11:06 PM
I see this written here all the time. It's one of those articles of faith that conservatives are so in love with. And like most (all?) of their articles of faith it is wrong.
You don't create wealth just by producing something. A toaster sitting on the shelf in a warehouse is not wealth. It is potential wealth. It requires a buyer to turn it into wealth.
The stimulus works by financing various projects. A road needs to be built or repaired. A school needs to be modernized. A new sewer system needs to be installed to prevent flooding. These are projects that the local community can't afford by itself. So the Federal Government provides stimulus funds to subsidize the cost. The local entity puts the job out for bid and ABC Roadbuilders wins the contract. ABC looks around and says, "This is a big job, I'm going to have to hire fifty people to do this job."
Fifty people now have a job who did not have a job before. Because they did not have a job before they begin making purchase they were previously unable to make.
The local Target gets busier and Target hires extra sales associates. Target sees that men's work shirts are flying off the shelf and orders more from the (American) manufacturer.
The (American) manufacturer adds a shift to his factory and......well you get the idea.

Now, as sure as I'm the best looking guy in my entire living room, you are going to come back and say, "But, but, all of that is paid for by my tax dollars, you are just taking my money and redistributing it to some one else,"

There was a song many years ago about a prospector traveling through the desert. He came across a well and a pump. On the pump was a large jar filled with water and a note. The note said, "This pump works, but she has to be primed. Pour the jar of water into the pump and you will be rewarded with bountiful water, enough to slake your thirst and fill your canteens to overflowing. BUT, mind you refill the jar so the next person has water to prime the pump."

This is what the stimulus is doing. It is priming the pump to the benefit of all.
If it has not yet succeeded it is because we are being niggardly in priming the pump. The song said "Pour the jar of water" not half the jar, the whole jar.

From a typical NON knowing teet sucking employee of the nanny state.....:lol:

"The stimulus works by financing various projects. A road needs to be built or repaired. A school needs to be modernized. A new sewer system needs to be installed to prevent flooding."

What you fail to understand here MOSTY, or just are totally blind to...is yes, the stimulus does help in that fashion. BUT, those are all TEMPORARY fixes. Do you not understand that NO temporary fix will EVER sustain this economy? By the way, how is all of those TEMPORARY added jobs on the census working out for ya??? Ohhh wait...they were laid off recently...how much are they helping the economy now??? :lol:

As another poster here so mentioned, it is a mere redistribuion. Bu taking my tax dollars for a TEMPORARY fix to give it to someone else....what do you call it?

The only way to help the economy is through the PRIVATE sector long term.
As someone else mentioned...cash for clunkers...where's that now?? Let me answer..being paid for by tax payers with NO return now.

You guys in the public sector will never get it. You have always lived on someone elses dime never having to know what its like to provide or else! But slowly and surely....the public sector is breaking the private sector through unions and through tax hikes.

Now before you go on this tirade and tell us how conservatives despise and hate taxes...get it straight. I know that a certain amount of taxes are needed for the things you mentioned like infrastructure. I have no problem paying my share of taxes for police...fire...teachers...

I have a HUGE problem paying for those (probably like some of those in the picture) who are ABLE to work, yet prefer to live off the nanny state. There have been many articles about the fraud and waste in government spending...

Private sector fraud...such as Madoff...it happens. Difference is in the private sector that type of crime is sought out and punished by the goverment yet they fail to look into their own corrupt government offices.!

GameTheory
08-12-2010, 11:08 PM
All folks of color originated from somewhere else- most here in the USA were born here- this AA bulls--t is beyond being rational. Not one single person alive was a slave or a slave owner. :sleeping::sleeping: Not only that, but the number of American blacks that are descendants of regular immigrants (or are first generation themselves) outnumber the descendants of slaves by a significant margin.

mostpost
08-13-2010, 12:15 AM
Facts? What fantasy world are you living in?

You look to a government agency to support your position for a government agency and you were a government employee for umpteen years! - Odd how that worked out :eek:

Don't believe all you read. If you don't believe me, just ask the double D of the CBO:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/8_12_10_12_24_21.jpg

http://teristirades.blogspot.com/2009/07/cbos-wrong-more-than-its-right.html
What the double d said was they could not guarantee projections out to ten years. But the study I cited, was not a projection. It was written in May of 2010 about the period from January 2010 to March 2010. The study analyzed what had happened.

mostpost
08-13-2010, 12:17 AM
So in your world CBO estimates are considered facts?
the mulitpliers cited have been thoroughly debunked as hogwash.
Of course that would never sway your opinion since you're not looking for facts, only blind fealty to the discarded and failed concepts of central planning and collectivism.
By who? Provide evidence.

ElKabong
08-13-2010, 12:23 AM
i see one white person in that pic...WTF? Is this photoshop'd? Is it real?

mostpost
08-13-2010, 12:25 AM
As someone who pisses you off !!!:lol:

There are three races on planet earth. Mongolian, Caucasian, and Negroid.

No shite Sherlock !! The point is that when I look at a black person I do not think of them as being AF. American. All folks of color originated from somewhere else- most here in the USA were born here- this AA bulls--t is beyond being rational. Not one single person alive was a slave or a slave owner. :sleeping::sleeping:

If one is Irish/Polish/German ancestry so what !!! who the frig cares, yet when a discussion involves blacks, the race card is ALWAYS brought up by you fools on the left

One last point Mostie- you are are the one who spent your life sucking on the Govt's teet at the expense of taxpayers. I didn't. I worked privately for a company(ies) that derived their resources from the free market, not from other taxpayers. USPS - alosing proposition always !!

Is your guilt as a leech on the dole pissing you off ?? :D
Deny all you want. Obfuscate all you want. When you referred to the people in the picture, you were pointing out that they were Black. You know it; I know it.

newtothegame
08-13-2010, 12:31 AM
Deny all you want. Obfuscate all you want. When you referred to the people in the picture, you were pointing out that they were Black. You know it; I know it.

Mosty...you continue to try and make this a RACIST thing. Lets say for example that CJ's was saying they were black (which by the way I am not saying that was his intent as I do not know his intent)., So, what does that mean? It does not make you a RACIST to state the obvious from his perspective. I am looking at the pic and guess what??? I se alot of black folks in the picture.

Does that make me a racist because I see alot of black folks in the picture? You libs seriously need to stop trying to make everything racism. The american public is onto it and the polls show it. November...will be very telling! :lol:

bigmack
08-13-2010, 12:32 AM
What the double d said was they could not guarantee projections out to ten years. But the study I cited, was not a projection. It was written in May of 2010 about the period from January 2010 to March 2010. The study analyzed what had happened.
The name of the document is "Estimated Impact..."
The name of the table you cite is "Estimated Output Multipliers..."

Yet you place it here as fact. Do you honestly think you're bringing more credible information than others here and dilute yourself into thinking you're winning some sort of debate? How much more obtuse are you willing to be?

ElKabong
08-13-2010, 12:36 AM
i still find it amazing that only one white person is in that pic. Screw all this back n forth nonsense in the thread, the fact of the pic (if it's real) simply amazes beyond words. It really does. Can someone on the left explain it without refences to Hitler?

newtothegame
08-13-2010, 12:44 AM
Now you know Elk...soon there will be "BLACK" helicopters and SUV's surrounding your house and you too will be labeled as a hate monger, racist, unamerican etc etc

:lol:

bigmack
08-13-2010, 12:48 AM
i still find it amazing that only one white person is in that pic.
Where? I don't see 'em.

Check out the CNN video of the scene. Apparently people were coming from New York, Chicago & all over.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/08/12/georgia.housing.crush/?hpt=Sbin

mostpost
08-13-2010, 12:50 AM
From a typical NON knowing teet sucking employee of the nanny state.....:lol:

"The stimulus works by financing various projects. A road needs to be built or repaired. A school needs to be modernized. A new sewer system needs to be installed to prevent flooding."

What you fail to understand here MOSTY, or just are totally blind to...is yes, the stimulus does help in that fashion. BUT, those are all TEMPORARY fixes. Do you not understand that NO temporary fix will EVER sustain this economy? By the way, how is all of those TEMPORARY added jobs on the census working out for ya??? Ohhh wait...they were laid off recently...how much are they helping the economy now??? :lol:


As another poster here so mentioned, it is a mere redistribuion. Bu taking my tax dollars for a TEMPORARY fix to give it to someone else....what do you call it?

The only way to help the economy is through the PRIVATE sector long term.
As someone else mentioned...cash for clunkers...where's that now?? Let me answer..being paid for by tax payers with NO return now.

You guys in the public sector will never get it. You have always lived on someone elses dime never having to know what its like to provide or else! But slowly and surely....the public sector is breaking the private sector through unions and through tax hikes.

Now before you go on this tirade and tell us how conservatives despise and hate taxes...get it straight. I know that a certain amount of taxes are needed for the things you mentioned like infrastructure. I have no problem paying my share of taxes for police...fire...teachers...

I have a HUGE problem paying for those (probably like some of those in the picture) who are ABLE to work, yet prefer to live off the nanny state. There have been many articles about the fraud and waste in government spending...

Private sector fraud...such as Madoff...it happens. Difference is in the private sector that type of crime is sought out and punished by the goverment yet they fail to look into their own corrupt government offices.!

Read my original again. No one claims that spending by the government can affect a permanent solution to a recession. Did you understand the "prime the pump" analogy? A small amount of water from the jar yields a large amount of water from the well. The government kick starts the economy, the private sector keeps it going.

The census workers are a unique situation. When they were working they helped the job numbers, but nobody said they were a permanent solution. But there are other public sector jobs that are permanent. No matter what the ignorant say, I worked hard at my job at USPS. As hard as at some of my private industry jobs and harder than I worked at some Private industry jobs.
If you think not, I challenge you to deliver mail in a Chicago winter or in a Louisiana summer. I spent my summer vacation at Fort Polk back in '66. :lol:
Or perhaps you would like to spend eight hours a day standing and waiting on customers. I some offices the lines never let up. And in case you don't know window clerks have other tasks for when they are not busy.
Everybody knows how little work Government employees do. Pal, you don't know squat. :mad:

Cash for Clunkers worked very well. There was a huge increase in sales at a time it was desperately needed. Many dealers would have gone out of business without Cash for Clunkers. There was a drop after the program ended butin a few months sales were on the rise again and the big three are enjoying their best year in many years.

mostpost
08-13-2010, 12:54 AM
The name of the document is "Estimated Impact..."
The name of the table you cite is "Estimated Output Multipliers..."

Yet you place it here as fact. Do you honestly think you're bringing more credible information than others here and dilute yourself into thinking you're winning some sort of debate? How much more obtuse are you willing to be?
Estimated yes; projected no. CBO used figures they had to estimate the effects of the stimulus. No one can be sure, but this was their best estimate. If someone has a better one they should publish it along with the data and methodology they used to reach their conclusions. Until then I will stick with the CBO.

mostpost
08-13-2010, 12:57 AM
None of this means squat, we can argue with each other all we want but in the end in November the rage will be too much for this party to sustain.
There will be some very unhappy tea partiers on Nov. 4

ElKabong
08-13-2010, 12:59 AM
Where? I don't see 'em.

Check out the CNN video of the scene. Apparently people were coming from New York, Chicago & all over.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/08/12/georgia.housing.crush/?hpt=Sbin

Mack,

That was f'n amazing. Oddly enough, most of the folks in that video don't look underfed by a longshot.

If cons or centrists wanted to point at an instance where 40 yrs of social welfare has failed its target, this is it.
.

bigmack
08-13-2010, 01:01 AM
Cash for Clunkers worked very well. There was a huge increase in sales at a time it was desperately needed.
:lol:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/8_12_10_21_59_39.jpg
http://www.edmunds.com/help/about/press/159446/article.html

That was f'n amazing. Oddly enough, most of the folks in that video don't look underfed by a longshot.
I liked the one woman "Well, the economy is bad so we need all the help we can get"

Estimated yes; projected no. CBO used figures they had to estimate the effects of the stimulus. No one can be sure, but this was their best estimate. If someone has a better one they should publish it along with the data and methodology they used to reach their conclusions. Until then I will stick with the CBO.
Dig. 'Memba when you used all them hang bangin' emo's, you referred to your use of fact? Do ArlJim a solid and withdraw your claim of 'fact'

ElKabong
08-13-2010, 01:03 AM
Now you know Elk...soon there will be "BLACK" helicopters and SUV's surrounding your house and you too will be labeled as a hate monger, racist, unamerican etc etc

:lol:

NTG,

I got the blk heli angle covered...I'll stop buying turbines, subs, and shafts ;)

signed,
newly minted racist, per the leftys (even tho my 2 biggest suppliers are minority owned & were brought on board by our team) :)

ElKabong
08-13-2010, 01:08 AM
Mack,

mosty was a gubmint employee....24k of tax $ per car is making his political pants fly around the room. That's a helluva deal to his line of thinking.

newtothegame
08-13-2010, 01:10 AM
Read my original again. No one claims that spending by the government can affect a permanent solution to a recession. Did you understand the "prime the pump" analogy? A small amount of water from the jar yields a large amount of water from the well. The government kick starts the economy, the private sector keeps it going.

The census workers are a unique situation. When they were working they helped the job numbers, but nobody said they were a permanent solution. But there are other public sector jobs that are permanent. No matter what the ignorant say, I worked hard at my job at USPS. As hard as at some of my private industry jobs and harder than I worked at some Private industry jobs.
If you think not, I challenge you to deliver mail in a Chicago winter or in a Louisiana summer. I spent my summer vacation at Fort Polk back in '66. :lol:
Or perhaps you would like to spend eight hours a day standing and waiting on customers. I some offices the lines never let up. And in case you don't know window clerks have other tasks for when they are not busy.
Everybody knows how little work Government employees do. Pal, you don't know squat. :mad:

Cash for Clunkers worked very well. There was a huge increase in sales at a time it was desperately needed. Many dealers would have gone out of business without Cash for Clunkers. There was a drop after the program ended butin a few months sales were on the rise again and the big three are enjoying their best year in many years.

Since you used the term IGNORANT...let me oblige...
Your right, no matter what the IGNORANT say...

"The government kick starts the economy, the private sector keeps it going."...So in essence your saying that spending all that money on those census workers kick started the economy??? LMAO...Please go into further detail. Or, if you don't like the analagy...you chose to use cash for clunkers.
Yeah that worked out real well...How much did each car wind up costing?? You remember the tread on that right?? LMAO How much did that cost the tax payers? On how did it affect car sales Immediately after?? Then only thing it did was REDISTRIBUTE sales from one period of time to another!! Nothing more!!

How is the private sector keeping it going?? Last I looked, the private sector isn't hiring a whole lot! Secondly, there are numerous reports out now about how the private sector is increasing the cost of goods to consumers to offset the tax increases, the soon to be in effect of healthcare, etc etc. So how is the private sector keeping that economy going with that sure way of public sector starting it???

Don't give us what you believe...show us "facts" (then again your facts have been shown time and time again to be eroneous).

And your right, there are other public sector jobs that are permanent. But show us the permanent ones the stimulus created?? The stimulus has not created ANY permanent jobs! The stimulus money currently is going where mosty? I am sure you can find that...

Most if not all of the money has gone to "subsidize" state's budgets, transportation dept (which we have already discussed are TEMPORARY jobs) etc etc. So where has all that TAX money gone and what is the return???

Bottom line for those who are IGNORANT and do NOT understand....
The PRIVATE sector is the only entity which can SUSTAIN the economy as I originally said. The public sector can only take money from one party to pay towards another party.

Ask yourself this one question mosty before responding....

Why is it that former and current socialist or communist countries are going towards free market systems? I mean they have already been to where this administration is trying to take us....so why?

newtothegame
08-13-2010, 01:13 AM
Estimated yes; projected no. CBO used figures they had to estimate the effects of the stimulus. No one can be sure, but this was their best estimate. If someone has a better one they should publish it along with the data and methodology they used to reach their conclusions. Until then I will stick with the CBO.

You mean no one in the GOVERNMENT can be sure lol.

Ever ask yourself why private sector jobs are held to a different standard then public sector? I mean private sector jobs have to be held accountable to the SEC etc etc for them to be listed. Why is not government jobs held to the same standard? When a private sector job goes over budget, people lose jobs. When a public sector job goes over budget, people get raises....incredible lol

newtothegame
08-13-2010, 01:51 AM
That stimulus and government is really driving the economy.....
Ohh wait...maybe not....

"The economy is looking bleaker as new applications for jobless benefits rose last week to the highest level in almost six months."

Way to drive that economy huh mosty????

"It's a sign that hiring remains weak and employers may be going back to cutting their staffs. The increase suggests companies won't be adding enough workers in August to lower 9.5 percent unemployment rate, analysts say."

Hmm....Wait I know mosty mentioned something about "priming a pump"...looks more like a flush of a toilet to me...

"The government's July jobs report, released Friday, showed that the economy lost a net total of 131,000 jobs last month. Excluding the impact of the elimination of 143,000 temporary census jobs, the economy added a meager 12,000 positions, as layoffs by state and local governments almost canceled out weak hiring by businesses."

Yep...its a flush alright...

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/US-Economy/2010/08/12/id/367340

The above is a few excerpts....doesn't look too rosey there MOSTY. Now what were ya saying about the stimulus and government being the economic starter???

JustRalph
08-13-2010, 02:06 AM
Limbaugh had an interesting discussion about this event on his show today

It jives with this thread very well..........I didn't hear it, but read the website a couple times a week........here is the transcript

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_081210/content/01125112.guest.html

fast4522
08-13-2010, 03:07 AM
you are going to see on November 4 is a what have you done for me electorate casting the blame on one man, Because They Can. Why is because of failure to fix the jobs problem. Clueless on what makes this country tick. It is and always will be what the people want and not what some socialist wants. :lol:

hcap
08-13-2010, 05:08 AM
Are you blind? Post #7 CJsDad said:

Are you telling me he was not referring to the race of the people in the picture? If not then what was he referring to? What other characteristic do they have in common that could be determined by looking at the picture? Maybe he meant most of the people are standing up. Yeah, Right. :rolleyes:

Of course he didn't come out and say African Americans, he does not have the guts to say what he really thinks, but it is clear that is what he was referring to.
What's worse is he thinks it's a joke. And what's worse than that is the winking that occurs by various posters, also too afraid to admit what they are really thinking.

newtothegame
08-13-2010, 05:41 AM
What's worse is he thinks it's a joke. And what's worse than that is the winking that occurs by various posters, also too afraid to admit what they are really thinking.

You mean the "winking" that is very similiar as using the term "various"?? No one here would hide behind emoticons or words...would they??? :lol:

cj's dad
08-13-2010, 10:44 AM
Deny all you want. Obfuscate all you want. When you referred to the people in the picture, you were pointing out that they were Black. You know it; I know it.

I didn't have to do any pointing out at all. But yes, I was referencing the fact that nearly all (99% ?) were black. When does it ever stop ?

Section 8 - food stamps - Medical assistance - and of course there's that other form of regulated housing known as jail which is another tiny item helping to bankrupt this country.

Isn't it a pain in the ass when reality (in the form of a photo) smacks you in the face Mostie ??

Ignore the realities of life in the big city all you want mostie, they are not going away; not now, not soon, not ever !

mostpost
08-13-2010, 12:27 PM
SANTA MONICA, Calif. — October 28, 2009 — Edmunds.com, the premier resource for online automotive information, has determined that Cash for Clunkers cost taxpayers $24,000 per vehicle sold.

Nearly 690,000 vehicles were sold during the Cash for Clunkers program, officially known as CARS, but Edmunds.com analysts calculated that only 125,000 of the sales were incremental. The rest of the sales would have happened anyway, regardless of the existence of the program.
I disagree with this statement for two reasons. First of all the statement that only 125,000 of the sales were due to CforC. As I understand it, they arrived at that figure by taking the sales of luxury cars which were not included in the program and extrapolating from the typical % of those sales to cars which were included.
The problem with that is the recession hurts people at the lower end of the economic spectrum more and earlier than those at the upper. So while a luxury car buyer would still be able to purchase a luxury car, a less affluent buyer may have been reluctant to do do.
My second problem is you just can't figure it the way they did. Rebate were not given on only 125,000 cars. Rebates were given on 690,000 cars. There's no "What if here" $2.877B was spent on CforC. That resulted in a 37% increase in sales over the two months of the program. (I calculated that by taking the average monthly sales from Jan. to June and comparing it to the average for July and August)
One other thing. The Edmonds figures don't take into account the people who upgraded due to the program and how much that added to the auto economy.

bigmack
08-13-2010, 12:49 PM
I disagree with this statement for two reasons.
So I'm clear, Edmunds, one of the the most respected entities in the automotive business who had a team of PhDs & statisticians examine and compile this report (with little reason to be biased; in fact, you would think they would encourage another round of CARS program) and has been analyzing the automotive industry since 1966 (when you were learning to tie your shoelaces) and you 'disagree' with them?

And then glomp onto an 'estimated' CBO report and ridicule others for not accepting it as fact?

Wowser. You're a piece of work.

ArlJim78
08-13-2010, 01:08 PM
Cash for Clunkers was one of many big wastes of time and money. no other way to say it, it was stupid. People fall for the popular misconception that government can interject itself into the marketplace in a positive way. It doesn't work that way, government can effect the market of course but it does so in a way that forces people and companies to make decisions and purchases that they ordinarily wouldn't, which is never a good thing. A good rule of thumb is that if a product isn't selling, be it a car, home or anything else, there is most likely a good reason for it. When the government interferes it distorts the market and the wrong purchases are made and the wrong products are manufactured. witness the Volt. witness the many houses that people purchased who shouldn't have, witness the many failed companies propped up by government, and it goes on and on. Government taxes and heavily regulates successful people and companies so that it can turnaround and reward failed people and companies. and they wonder why the economy is stalled

menifee
08-13-2010, 01:42 PM
Cash for Clunkers was one of many big wastes of time and money. no other way to say it, it was stupid. People fall for the popular misconception that government can interject itself into the marketplace in a positive way. It doesn't work that way, government can effect the market of course but it does so in a way that forces people and companies to make decisions and purchases that they ordinarily wouldn't, which is never a good thing. A good rule of thumb is that if a product isn't selling, be it a car, home or anything else, there is most likely a good reason for it. When the government interferes it distorts the market and the wrong purchases are made and the wrong products are manufactured. witness the Volt. witness the many houses that people purchased who shouldn't have, witness the many failed companies propped up by government, and it goes on and on. Government taxes and heavily regulates successful people and companies so that it can turnaround and reward failed people and companies. and they wonder why the economy is stalled

Exactly. What is missed about the cash for clunkers program is what happened to the used car market after the program. By interfering in the marketplace and encouraging people to turn in cars that were still workable and usable (nearly 700,000 were destroyed), the government created a price disparity in the used car market as part of the normal supply was destroyed as part of the program. The people who owned these cars could have still used him or sold them in the private market. This ironically hurts people in the lower income brackets as they are more likely to buy used cars. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (mostpost - a gvt agency), used-car prices rose 16 percent between June 2009 and June 2010.

The Russians are now copying this brilliant program:

http://en.rian.ru/business/20100812/160173777.html

bigmack
08-13-2010, 02:03 PM
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (mostpost - a gvt agency), used-car prices rose 16 percent between June 2009 and June 2010.
You mean there's more to the story than a typical FUBAR-run government program where a vast amount of loot is used to prop-up sales/an industry, like higher prices on a used car for the working class AND at a cost of $24K/vehicle sold?

Shocking! Here I thought G-types in cubicles cashing their inflated G-payroll checks knew what they were doing. :rolleyes:

ArlJim78
08-13-2010, 05:35 PM
. This ironically hurts people in the lower income brackets as they are more likely to buy used cars. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (mostpost - a gvt agency), used-car prices rose 16 percent between June 2009 and June 2010.

they never consider the unintended consequences, and those are what always sink their grandiose ideas.

ElKabong
08-14-2010, 01:02 AM
What's worse is he thinks it's a joke. And what's worse than that is the winking that occurs by various posters, also too afraid to admit what they are really thinking.

Actually, what is "worse" is the ****ing economy. Somebodyd didn't "fix it" like he said it would.

If the POS in the WH delivered on his promise to make things better he'd be in good shape and you wouldn't be on your little heels with every post. You're on Defense mode, have been for over a year. There's a reason for it

newtothegame
08-19-2010, 02:18 AM
http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/aria09081820090817061215.jpg

ArlJim78
08-19-2010, 10:17 AM
Recovery Summer keeps chugging along.


WASHINGTON (AP) -- New applications for unemployment insurance reached the half-million mark last week for the first time since November, a sign that employers are cutting jobs again as the recovery slows. The Labor Department says initial claims for jobless benefits rose by 12,000 last week to 500,000, the fourth increase in the past five weeks. Wall Street economists forecast that claims would drop.

wisconsin
08-19-2010, 11:10 AM
Exactly. What is missed about the cash for clunkers program is what happened to the used car market after the program. By interfering in the marketplace and encouraging people to turn in cars that were still workable and usable (nearly 700,000 were destroyed), the government created a price disparity in the used car market as part of the normal supply was destroyed as part of the program. The people who owned these cars could have still used him or sold them in the private market. This ironically hurts people in the lower income brackets as they are more likely to buy used cars. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (mostpost - a gvt agency), used-car prices rose 16 percent between June 2009 and June 2010.

I am on the front line. I once said the CARS was a good program, because we needed a boost, until I got deeply involved with the red tape of the entire process. There is a great misconception that the CARS rebate went "into the dealer's pocket". The rebate always went to the bottom line of the deal, for the customer. The buyers were generally mom and pop types, with cash in hand. It did not help the people with poor credit, as promised. It also left a whole lot of unqualified vehicles that clearly were clunkers on the road.

This program brought out the buyers, alright. It also depleted inventory to the point where I had maybe a dozen new cars left to sell after the program ended. We then sold diddly-sqat for the next couple of months, and did not get a full lot of cars for months on end.

The end result is a goofed up used car market. Cheap cars are overpriced and difficult to find, and can't be financed in most cases.

But it's not all the fault of CARS. It's a result of a screwed up economy where people are not trading in cars for new ones. This cannot go on forever, because more cars are falling off the road then are being sold. The average car on the road is now an all-time high average of about 10 years old.

boxcar
08-19-2010, 11:29 AM
http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/aria09081820090817061215.jpg

It is so comforting to know we're in full recovery mode. Now all we gotta do is convince all the unemployed.

Jobless claims rise to highest level in 9 months

"The rise in initial jobless claims over the past three weeks makes it difficult to maintain confidence in the recovery and suggests the labor market is backtracking more than we first expected," Ryan Sweet, an economist at Moody's Analytics, wrote in a note to clients.

Makes it difficult to maintain confidence? You think? :rolleyes:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100819/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/us_economy

Boxcar

jballscalls
08-19-2010, 11:47 AM
CJ's Dad has often brought race into many issues he's posted about here at PA OT.

my question to him is does he think that this is a matter of race or a matter of poverty?

i mean if there were good jobs available to these people, would they be in those lines?

fast4522
08-19-2010, 03:22 PM
jballscalls,
It is really not about race, its about wealth redistribution and voting blocks. It is fair to say that if a people are to be better off in ten years or twenty it will be because they did it on their own. In the end game, BO could care less for his or any other people more than he does for the Bilderburgers. It is a end game that if he has to sell out his own for the big socialist picture and the people who pull the strings he will do so in a heartbeat. These bastards do not even live in this country, its all about the agenda and the assholes raking in the cash. Believe this, people of color will be no better off in fifty years from now because its just a game to sellout whole segments to rip the middle class a new one.

bigmack
08-19-2010, 03:31 PM
i mean if there were good jobs available to these people, would they be in those lines?
Don't be naive. You have several kids, you get AFDC (Aid to Families with Dependent Children) & other programs. You hustle a little somethin' on the side and you get into Section 8 housing. There's a whole pile of people that have been living that way for generations and their days have little to do with looking in the 'Help Wanted' section of the local paper or Craigslist.

If you sat down with them and asked them why they're not able to find a decent job they'd laugh.

mostpost
08-19-2010, 04:38 PM
CJ's Dad has often brought race into many issues he's posted about here at PA OT.

my question to him is does he think that this is a matter of race or a matter of poverty?

i mean if there were good jobs available to these people, would they be in those lines?
How can you possibly accuse CJ's Dad of bringing race into the issue? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
When he said, about a picture filled with Black people, "Isn't it strange that most of the people are....," he was referring to the fact that they were wearing shoes; it had nothing to do with race. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Of course he thinks it's about race. You see, people on welfare stay on welfare because they live so well on welfare. That's why they live in the best parts of the city in fabulous apartments and dine on Surf and Turf.

We all know that welfare mothers crank out new kids every year so they can get that extra couple of hundred a month, which they use to maintain their Lamborghinis (However you spell it).
I know and you know (I hope you know) that the number of people who are on welfare and do not want to get off welfare is infinitesimal. Everyone wants to better themselves. No one, white or black or in between, wants to live in a rat infested project where drug sales and prostitution are commonplace.

GaryG
08-19-2010, 05:02 PM
We all know that welfare mothers crank out new kids every year so they can get that extra couple of hundred a month, which they use to maintain their Lamborghinis (However you spell it). You spell it E-S-C-A-L-A-D-E.

bigmack
08-19-2010, 05:05 PM
Everyone wants to better themselves. No one, white or black or in between, wants to live in a rat infested project where drug sales and prostitution are commonplace.
If there were only jobs they would be getting up at 6 taking public transportation to work, crank out a good 8 hours, head back home, have some dinner, read the kids a story, help 'em with their homework, tuck 'em in the rack and get up and do it again tomorrow.

If there were only jobs for them. :rolleyes:

newtothegame
08-19-2010, 06:15 PM
You spell it E-S-C-A-L-A-D-E.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHIuXnNKKGo

jballscalls
08-19-2010, 06:30 PM
You spell it E-S-C-A-L-A-D-E.

reminds me of the movie Barbershop when Cedric the Entertainer's character is talking about reperations. another guy says "every black person should get $100,000"

cedric replies "100,000?? man all that would do is make Cadillac the number 1 dealership" LOL

menifee
08-20-2010, 12:53 AM
I am on the front line. I once said the CARS was a good program, because we needed a boost, until I got deeply involved with the red tape of the entire process. There is a great misconception that the CARS rebate went "into the dealer's pocket". The rebate always went to the bottom line of the deal, for the customer. The buyers were generally mom and pop types, with cash in hand. It did not help the people with poor credit, as promised. It also left a whole lot of unqualified vehicles that clearly were clunkers on the road.

This program brought out the buyers, alright. It also depleted inventory to the point where I had maybe a dozen new cars left to sell after the program ended. We then sold diddly-sqat for the next couple of months, and did not get a full lot of cars for months on end.

The end result is a goofed up used car market. Cheap cars are overpriced and difficult to find, and can't be financed in most cases.

But it's not all the fault of CARS. It's a result of a screwed up economy where people are not trading in cars for new ones. This cannot go on forever, because more cars are falling off the road then are being sold. The average car on the road is now an all-time high average of about 10 years old.

I hope things get better for you and the dealership industry. I know a lot of dealers were for cash for clunkers and I understand why, but I really think this was horrible public policy for all (taxpayers, car dealers and car purchasers) and history will determine that.

bigmack
08-20-2010, 01:04 AM
and history will determine that.
You're way off. MostPoost has made a conclusion that it has been a Smash Hit

Hold it! This just in...

Turns out that after news, debunking his Little Theorem, he has since adopted a policy of "I have nothing to say" & a high tailin', "No comment at this time"

Stay tuned as the mail is delivered 6...Scratch that...5 days a week. And then 2, competently. :D

I kid.

JustRalph
08-25-2010, 02:47 PM
Cash for Clunkers worked very well. There was a huge increase in sales at a time it was desperately needed. Many dealers would have gone out of business without Cash for Clunkers. There was a drop after the program ended butin a few months sales were on the rise again and the big three are enjoying their best year in many years.

And now as I have expressed many many times, the result of Obama's policies including the cash for clunkers program, hurts those who he purports to be the savior of. As usual the less fortunate and those on the bottom of the economic ladder are now being punished for the cash for clunkers program. You and your self described "worked very well" program has not only cost tax payers (you know the 53% that actually pay taxes) but now it is punishing low income folks. Once again the fallacy of a giveaway program being good for the country has been exposed.

For those of you are interested, HotAir sums it up here.......

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/08/25/used-car-prices-skyrocket-a-year-after-cash-for-clunkers/

Cadillac Escalade 35.6% increase
Chevy Suburban +34.2%
Dodge Grand Caravan +34%
BMW X5 +33%

From the Link:

As predicted last year, the people most hurt by the price increases are those who can least afford them. The used-car market usually attracts people who need transportation on a budget, who cannot afford to buy new. By destroying a quarter’s worth of trade-ins in three weeks and permanently taking them off the market, the Obama administration has forced an artificial inflation by supply restriction. Moreover, they did so by subsidizing new-car sales that would have occurred anyway, eating up three billion dollars in taxpayer money.

In other words, the White House spent $3 billion to make used cars more expensive for working-class families. Nice work.

skate
08-25-2010, 03:24 PM
Originally Posted by mostpost
Cash for Clunkers worked very well. There was a huge increase in sales at a time it was desperately needed. Many dealers would have gone out of business without Cash for Clunkers. There was a drop after the program ended butin a few months sales were on the rise again and the big three are enjoying their best year in many years.





Many dealers WERE PUT OUT of business.

ArlJim78
08-25-2010, 03:48 PM
the current sales of the big three have absolutely NOTHING to do with cash for clunkers which was a total waste of resources.

ArlJim78
08-25-2010, 03:56 PM
Thank you Cash for Clunkers (http://blogs.edmunds.com/strategies/2010/08/with-used-car-prices-up-10-percent-over-2009-buyers-need-shopping-discipline.html), used car prices are 10% higher this year thanks to among other things a reduced supply. this according to Edmunds.

menifee
08-25-2010, 04:15 PM
Thank you Cash for Clunkers (http://blogs.edmunds.com/strategies/2010/08/with-used-car-prices-up-10-percent-over-2009-buyers-need-shopping-discipline.html), used car prices are 10% higher this year thanks to among other things a reduced supply. this according to Edmunds.

Continuing with the theme, the Obama administration decided that the federal government needed to subsidize housing (in addition to the deduction of mortgage interest, etc.) more. Accordingly, Congress gave all taxpayers an $8,000 first time homebuyers tax credit - which has now expired.

GASP - that created an artifical demand which has now evaporated. The Dems are shocked that the housing market is struggling again. Sales of new homes and existing homes are down big time. Why - because government (like with cash for clunkers) created incentives that distorted normal economic behavior. This will simply prolong the agony for so many people. If the government would simply stop legislating to try to saving housing (HAMP, tax credits, etc) - prices would fall, foreclosures would happen and the market will correct. Trying to stop this process with bonehead subsidies only punishes those who played by the rules (renters, those that can afford) and drags out the pain for those who didn't.

Tom
08-25-2010, 09:12 PM
Originally Posted by mostpost
Everyone wants to better themselves. No one, white or black or in between, wants to live in a rat infested project where drug sales and prostitution are commonplace.


And there is no limit to how much they are willing to have others pay to get them out of them.

cj's dad
08-25-2010, 09:35 PM
CJ's Dad has often brought race into many issues he's posted about here at PA OT.

my question to him is does he think that this is a matter of race or a matter of poverty?

i mean if there were good jobs available to these people, would they be in those lines?

I don't live in Montana, I live in a city that is majority black. Every day there are news stories about murder, rape, etc... in which the victims and their assailants are almost always African-American. The city is populated by many welfare recipients with their out-of-wedlock children.

Would these folks take a job if offered and improve their lives ? How the hell do I know. What I do know is that they are bleeding the city dry. I also know that once a person has a felony conviction on his/her record it is very difficult to find gainful employment.

I am a creature of the environment in which I have been associated with. My opinions are based on life here as it is presented on an almost daily basis by the news media.

The police commissioner is fed up; the firemen have to have police back-up when answering a call in certain sections of the city.

I work with many blacks in my current position who are also fed up with what is going on. They share my feelings but they are not labeled racists because of their skin color.

Feel free to post what you wish about me and my views.