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View Full Version : Richard Eng on Z: 'It's like A Rod Hitting #600 Off a High School Pitcher!'


andymays
08-06-2010, 08:55 AM
RICHARD ENG: Buzz around Zenyatta understated - Sports - ReviewJournal.com

http://www.lvrj.com/sports/buzz-around-zenyatta-understated-100103324.html

Excerpt:

This Hirsch field might be the weakest Zenyatta has faced since winning an allowance race early in her career. And she'll be conceding a mere 2 to 4 pounds to a woefully overmatched group. This is akin to Alex Rodriguez hitting his 600th career home run off a high school pitcher.

Excerpt:

The Beldame on Oct. 2 would be a perfect setting to finally meet Rachel Alexandra. Both horses should be in peak condition to square off in the top media market of New York. The Beldame is at a time and place where there would be no more evasive maneuvering.

Then if Zenyatta wins again, her final start would be going for career win No. 20 as the defending champion of the Breeders' Cup Classic. It would silence all critics for good to take care of business at Churchill Downs. That would be an electric moment not only in horse racing but in all of sports.

andymays
08-06-2010, 09:21 AM
http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/08/05/2387747/best-race-horses-rarely-race-against.html

Excerpt:

Throughout her career, Goldikova has run against the best, frequently taking on males. In fact, the European champion has raced against males eight times in her career, winning six of those, all major stakes, including the Breeders' Cup Mile each of the last two years.

Zenyatta, on the other hand, has raced against males but once, winning last year's Breeders' Cup Classic. And she frequently has accepted a base-on-balls against modest competition while racing over the synthetic tracks of California. Saturday at Del Mar, for example, she'll take on two turf horses, two horses she already has beaten soundly and a sprinter.


Excerpt:

Twice a finalist for the award, Zenyatta hasn't been Horse of the Year simply because she hasn't had a campaign that would indicate she's the year's most accomplished racehorse. And despite indications that this year's campaign would be different, she is again in the Clement Hirsch, trying to win it for the third time.

Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/08/05/2387747/best-race-horses-rarely-race-against.html#ixzz0vpcoeoDX

Seabiscuit@AR
08-06-2010, 09:37 AM
Goldikova is a top notch turf miler. But let's not pretend she has faced as tough as there is in her specialty. The best turf sprinters and milers in the world race in Australia and Asia. Have not seen Goldikova competing in these areas

As for Zenyatta, well Rachel did not turn up in the Apple Blossom. But since then she has not had a serious race and might as well retire again as what she is doing right now is pointless

andymays
08-06-2010, 09:39 AM
Goldikova is a top notch turf miler. But let's not pretend she has faced as tough as there is in her specialty. The best turf sprinters and milers in the world race in Australia and Asia. Have not seen Goldikova competing in these areas

As for Zenyatta, well Rachel did not turn up in the Apple Blossom. But since then she has not had a serious race and might as well retire again as what she is doing right now is pointless

Goldikova has consistently raced against the best in her country. Z has not.

It appears that the connections of Zenyatta are running for runner up HOY once again.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=duckworth_amanda&id=5295105

Excerpt:

The other day racing was blessed to see a truly great mare win yet again. And I am not talking about Zenyatta.

The prestigious Royal Ascot meeting in England was kicked off in grand style when Goldikova took the Group 1 Queen Anne Stakes over the boys. Even before her victory, it was a well-cemented belief that she is the best miler of either gender in the world right now . She has won nine Grade/Group 1 contests, and six of those have come against her male counterparts.

In her last three starts alone, Goldikova has raced in California, France, and England. Each time has been against the colts, and each time she has emerged victorious. In all she has won 12 of her 17 career starts and has only been off the board once. Her ultimate goal is to win her third consecutive Breeders' Cup Mile, which would be a record in any division of the event.

Although she cannot boast a perfect record like Zenyatta, Goldikova is a champion through and through. Her losses don't matter when considering the races she has won and the competition she has run against.

horses4courses
08-06-2010, 09:53 AM
Zenyatta will have bigger tests this Fall.

If she is as slow as some people on this forum say, she has little chance of retiring undefeated.

To state, however, that her winning run is tainted, due to a lack of competition, is ridiculous. A Rod and a high school pitcher - nice parallel.

Remember Pepper's Pride?
That string of 19 wins couldn't have come against much weaker.
Yet, she is the official record holder.
Don't for one second compare her achievements with Zenyatta's.

Need another baseball parallel?
How about comparing some string of wins by a Little League team in Podunk, USA with the Major League record holder?

Do ya follow?

FenceBored
08-06-2010, 10:14 AM
Zenyatta will have bigger tests this Fall.
[/qoute]

'Wait, just wait, I know this one looks bad, but ... but the real racing starts Real Soon Now.' :sleeping:

[QUOTE=horses4courses]If she is as slow as some people on this forum say, she has little chance of retiring undefeated.

To state, however, that her winning run is tainted, due to a lack of competition, is ridiculous. A Rod and a high school pitcher - nice parallel.

Remember Pepper's Pride?
That string of 19 wins couldn't have come against much weaker.
Yet, she is the official record holder.
Don't for one second compare her achievements with Zenyatta's.


Pepper's Pride sought out the toughest New Mexico bred Fillies and Mares while Zenyatta has not sought out the toughest Kentucky bred Fillies and Mares.

Advantage- Pepper's Pride.


Need another baseball parallel?
How about comparing some string of wins by a Little League team in Podunk, USA with the Major League record holder?

Do ya follow?

Yes, I do, but as the competition in the Hirsch looks like little leaguers, I doesn't lead me to think what you want me to think it does.

horses4courses
08-06-2010, 10:19 AM
[QUOTE=horses4courses]Zenyatta will have bigger tests this Fall.
[/qoute]

'Wait, just wait, I know this one looks bad, but ... but the real racing starts Real Soon Now.' :sleeping:



Pepper's Pride sought out the toughest New Mexico bred Fillies and Mares while Zenyatta has not sought out the toughest Kentucky bred Fillies and Mares.

Advantage- Pepper's Pride.



Yes, I do, but as the competition in the Hirsch looks like little leaguers, I doesn't lead me to think what you want me to think it does.

You can't be serious......

OTM Al
08-06-2010, 10:38 AM
I would also add that Dar Re Mi has had a tougher campaign in 2009 and 2010 combined than either of the 2 Americans as well

kenwoodall2
08-06-2010, 02:51 PM
Are the trash talkers who claim SoCal Synthetics cause chaos, unpredictable, unbettable races the same people for trashing Z's wins BECAUSE they are not on the predictable dirt or turf and because big shot trainers and big shot horses are chicken to enter her races?
Z side note: I just noticed Z's hind legs work closer together than her competition's (time between each hind hoof landing and pushing off).

cnollfan
08-06-2010, 03:38 PM
Zenyatta won the Breeders Cup Classic. This was not against high-school pitching, or New Mexico bred fillies and mares.

Is she the best filly or mare ever? I don't know. Would she beat Rachel Alexander? I don't know. Has she run in weak fields this year (albeit all Grade I races)? Yes. But the lengths to which Zenyatta haters go to disparage her border on the irrational.

horses4courses
08-06-2010, 03:44 PM
Zenyatta won the Breeders Cup Classic. This was not against high-school pitching, or New Mexico bred fillies and mares.

Is she the best filly or mare ever? I don't know. Would she beat Rachel Alexander? I don't know. Has she run in weak fields this year (albeit all Grade I races)? Yes. But the lengths to which Zenyatta haters go to disparage her border on the irrational.

You speak the truth.
She hasn't always faced the highest quality opposition.
How many G1s has she won, including the BC Classic? I count eleven - 2 on dirt.
You can't do what she has done, at that level, and not call it remarkable.
Unless you know nothing about thoroughbred horse racing.

Steve R
08-06-2010, 03:56 PM
Goldikova is a top notch turf miler. But let's not pretend she has faced as tough as there is in her specialty. The best turf sprinters and milers in the world race in Australia and Asia. Have not seen Goldikova competing in these areas

As for Zenyatta, well Rachel did not turn up in the Apple Blossom. But since then she has not had a serious race and might as well retire again as what she is doing right now is pointless
As good as the Asian and Australian horses may be, the folks at Timeform think she is far better than any of them and I am inclined to take their side. Through mid-July Goldikova was rated at 133 and I believe it is higher now. The top rated runners in Asia and Australia regardless of distance were Sacred Kingdom (130), All Silent (127), Whobegotyou (127), Green Birdie (126), Mic Mac (126), Predatory Pricer (126), Rangirangdoo (126), Viewed (126) and Wanted (126). The highest ranked milers in the group are thought to be about four lengths behind the mare. You are, however, certainly entitled to your own evaluation.

andymays
08-06-2010, 04:38 PM
The poll speaks volumes.

It seems everyone wanted to see more from Z and R this year.

So far the poll implies that most of us are dissapointed by their schedules.

How about that Goldikova? :ThmbUp:

Stillriledup
08-06-2010, 05:18 PM
Are the trash talkers who claim SoCal Synthetics cause chaos, unpredictable, unbettable races the same people for trashing Z's wins BECAUSE they are not on the predictable dirt or turf and because big shot trainers and big shot horses are chicken to enter her races?
Z side note: I just noticed Z's hind legs work closer together than her competition's (time between each hind hoof landing and pushing off).

There is a big difference between DMR poly and the other synthetic surfaces in Calif. This current polytrack is very unpredictable on how its going to play from day to day. More days at this current meet than not, speed has been impossible to beat. Santa Anita and Hollywood play more like dirt where DMR plays nothing like dirt or even like Cushion track (Hollywood).

FenceBored
08-06-2010, 06:18 PM
You speak the truth.
She hasn't always faced the highest quality opposition.
How many G1s has she won, including the BC Classic? I count eleven - 2 on dirt.
You can't do what she has done, at that level, and not call it remarkable.
Unless you know nothing about thoroughbred horse racing.

So, Zenyatta beating suspect fields in a G1 is a badge of honor, but you won't give Pepper's Pride her due for winning 19 straight (including 14 stakes) and more than a $1m? :eek: Show the girl some love. Give her some sugar, why don't you.

Cardus
08-06-2010, 07:30 PM
As good as the Asian and Australian horses may be, the folks at Timeform think she is far better than any of them and I am inclined to take their side. Through mid-July Goldikova was rated at 133 and I believe it is higher now. The top rated runners in Asia and Australia regardless of distance were Sacred Kingdom (130), All Silent (127), Whobegotyou (127), Green Birdie (126), Mic Mac (126), Predatory Pricer (126), Rangirangdoo (126), Viewed (126) and Wanted (126). The highest ranked milers in the group are thought to be about four lengths behind the mare. You are, however, certainly entitled to your own evaluation.

I LOVE Aussie racing, but I could not see Whobegotyou staying with Goldikova, and Rangirangdoo would be pummeled by her.

horses4courses
08-06-2010, 09:35 PM
So, Zenyatta beating suspect fields in a G1 is a badge of honor, but you won't give Pepper's Pride her due for winning 19 straight (including 14 stakes) and more than a $1m? :eek: Show the girl some love. Give her some sugar, why don't you.

She has 19 wins over NM breds, and never raced outside of that state.

I figure there are several mules racing the California circuit who could have
given some of Pepper's Pride's opponents a run for their money up to 6F.

She got 19 consecutive victories. That's the record.
That's as far as any connection between Pepper's Pride and Zenyatta goes.
There is no worthwhile comparison between the quality of performance.

FenceBored
08-06-2010, 09:46 PM
She has 19 wins over NM breds, and never raced outside of that state.

I figure there are several mules racing the California circuit who could have
given some of Pepper's Pride's opponents a run for their money up to 6F.

She got 19 consecutive victories. That's the record.
That's as far as any connection between Pepper's Pride and Zenyatta goes.
There is no worthwhile comparison between the quality of performance.

hater

BluegrassProf
08-06-2010, 09:54 PM
hater
Pepperite

tucker6
08-06-2010, 09:54 PM
She has 19 wins over NM breds, and never raced outside of that state.

I figure there are several mules racing the California circuit who could have
given some of Pepper's Pride's opponents a run for their money up to 6F.

She got 19 consecutive victories. That's the record.
That's as far as any connection between Pepper's Pride and Zenyatta goes.
There is no worthwhile comparison between the quality of performance.She has 17 wins over mainly CA breds on plastic, and never raced outside of that state except twice.

I figure there are several mules racing the California circuit who could have
given some of Zenyatta's opponents a run for their money up to 6F.

She got 17 consecutive victories, and that the important thing. Quality of opponents is secondary.
That's as far as any connection between Rachel and Zenyatta goes.
There is no worthwhile comparison between the quality of performance. Rachel got HOY because she faced the competition, both male and female. Zenyatta has not.

This word game is easy.

horses4courses
08-06-2010, 10:39 PM
She has 17 wins over mainly CA breds on plastic, and never raced outside of that state except twice.

I figure there are several mules racing the California circuit who could have
given some of Zenyatta's opponents a run for their money up to 6F.

She got 17 consecutive victories, and that the important thing. Quality of opponents is secondary.
That's as far as any connection between Rachel and Zenyatta goes.
There is no worthwhile comparison between the quality of performance. Rachel got HOY because she faced the competition, both male and female. Zenyatta has not.

This word game is easy.

I haven't brought Rachel into this. You did.
HOY was never mentioned. I thought Rachel deserved it.
So did everyone with a vote east of the Mississippi.

All things going to plan, Rachel and Zenyatta will meet in the BC Classic.

All will be settled then. No excuses. No more BS.
Lots of bragging for the victors, a mouthful of crow for the vanquished.......

cj
08-06-2010, 11:01 PM
I haven't brought Rachel into this. You did.
HOY was never mentioned. I thought Rachel deserved it.
So did everyone with a vote east of the Mississippi.

All things going to plan, Rachel and Zenyatta will meet in the BC Classic.

All will be settled then. No excuses. No more BS.
Lots of bragging for the victors, a mouthful of crow for the vanquished.......

Most likely they'll both be vanquished in that race, and I don't think there will be a lot of bragging for finishing 5th instead of 8th.

horses4courses
08-06-2010, 11:04 PM
Most likely they'll both be vanquished in that race, and I don't think there will be a lot of bragging for finishing 5th instead of 8th.


Just watch.
It will happen.
Even if they finish last and next to last.......

tzipi
08-07-2010, 01:11 AM
Who the heck voted for Zenyatta having the toughest schedule 09-10 over Goldikova? One polyturf race against turf horses? C'mon. Just goes to show.

andymays
08-07-2010, 09:33 AM
NBC San Diego knows what's going on alright. NOT!

Del Mar's Buz zing About Zenyatta
By DAVE SMITH and R. STICKNEY

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/Del-Mars-Buzzing-About-Zenyatta-100113109.html

Excerpt:

The most popular celebrity at the races this weekend will be the 3-year old gelding everyone in Del Mar is talking about.

Undefeated Zenyatta will run in the 9th race Saturday at the Del Mar Thoroughbred Club in an attempt to raise her record to 18-0.

That streak includes two wins at Del Mar over the past two years.


Source: Del Mar's Buzzing About Zenyatta | NBC San Diego

FenceBored
08-07-2010, 09:46 AM
NBC San Diego knows what's going on alright. NOT!

Del Mar's Buz zing About Zenyatta
By DAVE SMITH and R. STICKNEY

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/Del-Mars-Buzzing-About-Zenyatta-100113109.html

Excerpt:

The most popular celebrity at the races this weekend will be the 3-year old gelding everyone in Del Mar is talking about.

Undefeated Zenyatta will run in the 9th race Saturday at the Del Mar Thoroughbred Club in an attempt to raise her record to 18-0.

That streak includes two wins at Del Mar over the past two years.


Source: Del Mar's Buzzing About Zenyatta | NBC San Diego


They call her a 3-year old and then point out that she ran at Del Mar two years ago? Guess they're running yearling races at Del Mar now. :bang:

andymays
08-07-2010, 09:56 AM
They call her a 3-year old and then point out that she ran at Del Mar two years ago? Guess they're running yearling races at Del Mar now. :bang:

I believe the people that wrote the article are former stewards for the CHRB. :eek:

I could be wrong about that. ;)

tucker6
08-07-2010, 10:11 AM
Excerpt:

The most popular celebrity at the races this weekend will be the 3-year old gelding everyone in Del Mar is talking about.


Well, she is technically similar to a gelding in that she will have a tougher time than usual getting a mare pregnant..

andymays
08-07-2010, 10:16 AM
Well, she is technically similar to a gelding in that she will have a tougher time than usual getting a mare pregnant..

What's funny for me is that Del Mar does a lot of stuff right and some stuff wrong but one of my pet peeves when I go there (I haven't gone for almost two meets now because of their Polytrack) is the long lines at the machines or windows. You get a lot of people that only go to the races once or twice a year and when you get in line with 10 minutes to post sometimes you get shut out. You get a lot of rookies at Del Mar.

The people who wrote the article would be typical of some of the fans going today.

Tom
08-07-2010, 10:16 AM
Richard Eng writes for dummies.

BluegrassProf
08-07-2010, 02:10 PM
I believe the people that wrote the article are former stewards for the CHRB. :eek:

I could be wrong about that. ;)Possible doesn't mean probable. :D

The scrapped original version:

The most popular celebrity at the races this weekend will be the 3-year old gelding everyone in Del Mar is talking about.

Undefeated Zenyatta will run in the 9th race Saturday at the Del Mar Thoroughbred Club in an attempt to raise her record to 18-0 over the successful and widely-lauded polytrack surface that you should probably have at your local track.

Reports that Richard Tedesco cannot get his fingers uncrossed are thus far unconfirmed.

PaceAdvantage
08-08-2010, 04:30 AM
So did everyone with a vote east of the Mississippi.I know for a fact this statement is 100% false.

TEJAS KIDD
08-08-2010, 11:11 AM
It's funny how everyone yaps about the level of competition. These horses don't control the entry box. Perhaps the level they're facing is weak because other trainers and owners would rather not subject their horses to a punishing by RA or Z. If there was a 500,000 stake that RA or Z was entering today, and a 250,000 stake next week that they were not entering, which one would you opt for? Z's home is her home, she'll travel when she needs too. Why would anyone leave their comfort zone when they don't have to? If the New England Patriots had the opportunity to play the SB at home against the Bills or play it at a neutral site against the Colts, do you really think Belichick would choose the latter.
I think we should all thank the Moss's for the gift they've given us this year and hope that she makes it healthy to CD with her record in tact.

Relwob Owner
08-08-2010, 12:51 PM
It's funny how everyone yaps about the level of competition. These horses don't control the entry box. Perhaps the level they're facing is weak because other trainers and owners would rather not subject their horses to a punishing by RA or Z. If there was a 500,000 stake that RA or Z was entering today, and a 250,000 stake next week that they were not entering, which one would you opt for? Z's home is her home, she'll travel when she needs too. Why would anyone leave their comfort zone when they don't have to? If the New England Patriots had the opportunity to play the SB at home against the Bills or play it at a neutral site against the Colts, do you really think Belichick would choose the latter.
I think we should all thank the Moss's for the gift they've given us this year and hope that she makes it healthy to CD with her record in tact.


You say horses dont control the entry box-I dont think anyone has an issue with the horse, but more with her connections who do control the entry box in terms of where/when they run her and if the race is restricted or not.


Why would anyone leave their comfort level? To prove that their horse is the best in different conditions. That is a motivation for most in the game.....her connections do everything they can to protect her streak and that gets shown over and over again.

Your football analogy seems to actually run contrary to your position. Football and other sports have rules and systems in place to ensure that teams cant duck others the way that Moss and company do.....that is why in those sports you can actually see who is the best that year because they have had to stay at home, go on the road, play in foul conditions, etc and then can make their way to the championship game, win, and be viewed as the unquestioned best. Zenyatta cant be viewed that way because she stays in restricted, soft races all year gearing for one race and thus, even if she wins the BC, I dont see her as a lock for HOY because the rest of the year, she has beaten up on creampuffs to save her energy for one race.

TEJAS KIDD
08-08-2010, 01:47 PM
You say horses dont control the entry box-I dont think anyone has an issue with the horse, but more with her connections who do control the entry box in terms of where/when they run her and if the race is restricted or not.


Why would anyone leave their comfort level? To prove that their horse is the best in different conditions. That is a motivation for most in the game.....her connections do everything they can to protect her streak and that gets shown over and over again.

Your football analogy seems to actually run contrary to your position. Football and other sports have rules and systems in place to ensure that teams cant duck others the way that Moss and company do.....that is why in those sports you can actually see who is the best that year because they have had to stay at home, go on the road, play in foul conditions, etc and then can make their way to the championship game, win, and be viewed as the unquestioned best. Zenyatta cant be viewed that way because she stays in restricted, soft races all year gearing for one race and thus, even if she wins the BC, I dont see her as a lock for HOY because the rest of the year, she has beaten up on creampuffs to save her energy for one race.

How many times would like Z to leave Ca to run against softer competition. It seems the only competition worthy of her is RA and Z showed up at OP. What are the connections supposed to do, enter everywhere theres a big race and hope the competition shows up. She'll be there at CD in November.
As far as the football analogy is concerned. If there were no rules like the ones you stated, Belichick would prefer to stay home against the Bills.
Isnt the NFL set up by divisions (geographically located divisions). Each team beats up on the weaker divisional opponents 2 times a year, they pad their record to make the playoffs and then venture to the games championship. Sounds like what Z did last year. Won her geographical division, then won the championship. Unfortunately for her (or fortunately for her) it was at home. This year she played an away game at OP, dominated her division at home and will head to the championship at CD. And of course, should she win, she'll still be disrespected because most of her wins came against lesser competition.

cj
08-08-2010, 01:49 PM
How many times would like Z to leave Ca to run against softer competition. It seems the only competition worthy of her is RA and Z showed up at OP. What are the connections supposed to do, enter everywhere theres a big race and hope the competition shows up. She'll be there at CD in November.
As far as the football analogy is concerned. If there were no rules like the ones you stated, Belichick would prefer to stay home against the Bills.
Isnt the NFL set up by divisions (geographically located divisions). Each team beats up on the weaker divisional opponents 2 times a year, they pad their record to make the playoffs and then venture to the games championship. Sounds like what Z did last year. Won her geographical division, then won the championship. Unfortunately for her (or fortunately for her) it was at home. This year she played an away game at OP, dominated her division at home and will head to the championship at CD. And of course, should she win, she'll still be disrespected because most of her wins came against lesser competition.

Last I checked fillies and mares can run against colts, and for lots of money.

Relwob Owner
08-08-2010, 02:04 PM
How many times would like Z to leave Ca to run against softer competition. It seems the only competition worthy of her is RA and Z showed up at OP. What are the connections supposed to do, enter everywhere theres a big race and hope the competition shows up. She'll be there at CD in November.
As far as the football analogy is concerned. If there were no rules like the ones you stated, Belichick would prefer to stay home against the Bills.
Isnt the NFL set up by divisions (geographically located divisions). Each team beats up on the weaker divisional opponents 2 times a year, they pad their record to make the playoffs and then venture to the games championship. Sounds like what Z did last year. Won her geographical division, then won the championship. Unfortunately for her (or fortunately for her) it was at home. This year she played an away game at OP, dominated her division at home and will head to the championship at CD. And of course, should she win, she'll still be disrespected because most of her wins came against lesser competition.


Her connections could do plenty of things.....they could run her at different tracks against different competition , they could run her more than once this year on dirt, they could have stayed in CA and run against boys, etc etc....but, they dont. 18 starts and 1 against boys? Really? Their decision not to run in the Personal Ensign is pretty much the ultimate in terms of proving that they have no interest in challenging their horse until the BC.

Your football analogy still makes no sense to me....you initially said a team would rather stay at home, which is true-however, they cant and there are rules in place to make sure teams cant do what Z's connections do and stay and hide in CA....they have to go on the road and even if it is weaker competition, it is still more challenging and the toll it takes on them gives more credibility to a year end championship. If they stayed at home the whole season or played the Super Bowl at home, the year end championship wouldnt mean nearly as much and I would view it in a similar fashion as I do Zenyatta's 2009 BC win.

The fact that every other sport has rules in place to prevent teams from doing what Z's connections do seems to prove that they are indeed ducking, doesnt it?


Questioning Z doesnt make me or anyone else a "Zenyatta hater". It makes myself and others fans who question her place in history and her living up to the absurd hyperbolic accolades that are thrust upon her.....she is an amazing mare without a doubt, with an amazing streak. The interesting irony is that by protecting her streak by running only in restricted, creampuff races on her preferred surface, her connections are actually tarnishing her overall legacy along the way in my opinion.

Robert Fischer
08-08-2010, 06:01 PM
how do factor a very slow pace @ 8.5furlongs into the A℞od analogy?

do we make the distance 480feet? do we make the velocity of the pitch 60mph?


assuming Richard Eng has a expert level insight into horseracing and baseball, we must then view his analogy as "for entertainment only".

Robert Fischer
08-08-2010, 06:15 PM
Lets be honest

Z is never supposed to run 8.5 furlongs on synthetic anymore.

She is supposed to be run against the world's best a few times a year in the world's biggest races on either synth or turf between 9 and 10 furlongs.
This year the BCC on dirt is expected amongst those few. The other races it is acceptable to prep into shape.

The clement hirsch 2010 was an ungraded level (aprox allowancenx2 or highOCclm/alw) race run at only a mile and a sixteenth on synthetic.

The synthetic is fine to run on for major events like the BCC or DWC (or even a major regional event such as pacific classic /big cap etc) and a prep on the same surface prior to said event would be fine.

Normally a race like the Clement Hirsch should raise alarm and questions, but in this situation we have the insight to know that this is simply a part of the disappointing larger strategy.

One is left to wonder if Zenyatta will ever face the worlds best turf stars out of this country on their surface. And the quick realization is that it is extremely unlikely. It is a bit of a shame that the Breeders Cup Classic may be her only true world-class showcase this campaign, and even that depends upon her maintaining condition and the race itself drawing worthy rivals.

Robert Fischer
08-08-2010, 06:27 PM
Lets be honest...

Normally a race like the Clement Hirsch should raise alarm and questions, but in this situation we have the insight to know that this is simply a part of the disappointing larger strategy.


I just realized Zenyatta is not even using the Clement Hirschnx2 OCclm as a prep for the $1,000,000 Pacific Classic(run at Del Mar on synthetic)!!!


so she essentially ran in MASSIVE class-drop for a top class handicap horse, at a distance a supposedly classic distance(9f-10f in today's world) synth/turf thoroughbred never runs a meaningful world class battle@, over a pointless surface that she is not prepping on!!! :mad::bang::bang::bang:

Tom
08-08-2010, 06:38 PM
The clement hirsch 2010 was an ungraded level (aprox allowancenx2 or highOCclm/alw) race run at only a mile and a sixteenth on synthetic.

It was a Gr 1.

cj
08-08-2010, 06:39 PM
It was a Gr 1. in name only.

Fixed that up for you.

horses4courses
08-08-2010, 06:56 PM
I know for a fact this statement is 100% false.

Oh, my bad.
Did I miss somebody?

Robert Fischer
08-09-2010, 01:04 AM
It was a Gr 1.


Originally Posted...It was a Gr 1. in name only.

Fixed that up for you.


not sure how Tom meant his correct statement of fact, but yea, I am aware of the official paper grading, and was offering a subjective grading.

'oh ma darlin' Clement Hirsch..
I can see the merits of say a well-bred filly or mare of questionable long-term talent picking up a paper gradeI to try and fake some future breeding value, or an "easy pickings" scenario for any number of "good"
horses happy to pick up a check and a gradeI...




"and many even mention Zenyatta among her generation's-best"

but for those talking world class animals, and many even mention Zenyatta among her generation's-best, this type of race placement would be frustrating,puzzling, asinine, ass, nein(german for "NO!"), sad, question-raising, etc...



have we been somewhat conditioned to expect/except this from CAMP-Z ?



let me run off with a STREAKER... http://www.astreakergift.com/images/streaker_150_100.jpg

The lack of widespread critical outcry for running her in this type of campaign is in part due to the optimism of a world class Breeders Cup Classic, and(among other things like fan adoration, or low expectations:kiss:) in part due to "THE STREAK".

has the "streak" story, special as it is, unfairly(to her) allowed critics of Zenyatta to remain unknown as to whether her true legacy will be closer to LAVA MAN or closer to GOLDIKOVA.