UNCOUPLED ENTRIES IN NY

[exiles]

It dint take long for the manipulation of the uncoupled entries rule by T. PLETCHER see 5th race at SAR today, the # 1 at 9-1 ridden by COHEN breaks like a bullet and wins WW while her uncoupled mate #5 ridden by by PLETCHERS main man JV AND 4-1 just tags along for 2nd. THIEVES.

[PhantomOnTour]

You think they're betting? Pletcher still gets the same purse money for running 1st and 2nd whether coupled or not.

[exiles]

You think they're betting? Pletcher still gets the same purse money for running 1st and 2nd whether coupled or not.

You can be sure that they all bet, greed is too powerful.

[Robert Goren]

I have no idea if Pletcher bets or not, but I am sure that some of his employees do. That said, I like it. It is one of the times that you can a decent price on a top trainer. Wise gamblers shoud have figured that out a long time ago.

[exiles]

I have no idea if Pletcher bets or not, but I am sure that some of his employees do. That said, I like it. It is one of the times that you can a decent price on a top trainer. Wise gamblers shoud have figured that out a long time ago.

Well said BOB,

[slewis]

Since Todd is the first trainer in the spotlight regarding the uncoupled entry rule and a possible betting coup, I couldn't resist telling all the following story which I'm sure everyone will find quite amusing:

About 10 yrs ago, Todd Pletcher had a horse run 2nd in a maiden 50K claimer at Belmont.

Rene Araya, who was training at the time, dropped the slip and claimed the horse. He had claimed a few maiden claimers from several trainers and moved a few of them up. 8 days later, he enters the horse in a Md Sp Wt, a race which Todd too, is racing a horse.
Todd and George Weaver, his assistant at that time, walk toward the paddok and stop where I look at horses and Todd ask's me.."How's the number (speed figure) on the horse Araya claimed from me"? I told him it was decent.
He then asks "Can he win here"?... I reply "Well, he's picked up on a few trainers he's done this with, if he picks up a few lengths on you, it's possible".

Todd then takes a crisp $100 dollar bill from his wallet, hands it to George Weaver and says "Go bet this on Araya's horse...to win" Weaver replies, "On Araya's horse"? Pletcher then says "Yeah, $100 to win...I'll stop that bastard...I NEVER cash a ticket"!!!!!! George and I laughed......:lol:


True Story..

[Grits]

LOLOLLLLLLLLLLLL Good story, Slewis. :lol:

So many of the barns bet, you can see it the moment the tote comes up for the race. If its--not--the trainer, its got to be the help.

Pletcher's, Violette's, Tagg's, Shug's . . . . these are easily noted, along with others like all those Dutrow brothers.:lol:

[Saratoga_Mike]

You can be sure that they all bet, greed is too powerful.

First, trainers are the worst handicappers at the track. Second (separate issue), your accusations about Pletcher and his uncoupled entry are laughable, imo.

[exiles]

First, trainers are the worst handicappers at the track. Second (separate issue), your accusations about Pletcher and his uncoupled entry are laughable, imo.

You have a long long way to go my friend, what was there to handicap in this particular race , it was MSW for early 2 year olds, isn't this the same T.PLETCHER w/ all those drug related suspensions?

[Saratoga_Mike]

You have a long long way to go my friend.

If you think Todd Pletcher who is probably pulling down $2 mm/yr (when you include complementary breeding rights he receives) is attempting to fix races with his uncoupled entries (along with John Velazquez), then you should really stop betting altogether. If you think that's going on, how can you trust anything about racing? Why bet on something so crooked?

And what does it mean I have a "long long (sic) way to go?"

[Saratoga_Mike]

You have a long long way to go my friend, what was there to handicap in this particular race , it was MSW for early 2 year olds, isn't this the same T.PLETCHER w/ all those drug related suspensions?

How many positives does he have per thousands starts? How does that compare to the national avg?

[Grits]

Guys, give it up--on Todd. His horse won at good odds, so what. Its rare to catch Todd at a price.

If you want to read a more interesting scenario, please, go back and read the chart real closely, for Billy Badgett's 1-2 finishers in the first on July 31. His 1.50/1 with Cohen riding, unhurried down on the inside in all kinds of traffic, angling out to split horses, going for a hole that disappeared, while his 25/1 shot rolls with Johnny V--the more experienced rider. :faint:

Now, what y'all think Billy may have had in mind on that lovely afternoon?

Why, I bet he wasn't one bit surprised standing there having his picture taken with his supposed-to-be-up-the-track $52.50 winner, while his other runner, the second place finisher (paying $3.10) was headin' back to the barn.:lol:

I LOVE readin' NYRA's charts. They've got every track in the country beat on chart composition. They're short little essays, each one of 'em. In this one, it seems Chestoria "ran outta real estate."

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant_pdf.cgi?type=inc&country=USA&track=SAR&date=2010-07-31&race=1

Moaning 'bout being fleeced by Pletcher--his going off at 9/1?

Hell, Pletcher could line up behind Billy and take lessons. Billy pulled off a coup, and no one uttered a single little ole word.:lol:

Its a great game! . . . . A cagey one, too.

[Robert Goren]

I don't know for sure if any trainer trys to fix races, but I am pretty sure most trainers have an idea which horses in their stable can beat which others horses in their own stable. As we all know the past performances often point to the wrong horse. The step is trying figure out if the higher odds horse is entered because he has a chance or is it just out for the work or is it in to fill out the race so it go. Once you can answer that, you be pretty sure the odds will be a little higher than it should be.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Guys, give it up--on Todd. His horse won at good odds, so what. Its rare to catch Todd at a price.

If you want to read a more interesting scenario, please, go back and read the chart real closely, for Billy Badgett's 1-2 finishers in the first on July 31. His 1.50/1 with Cohen riding, unhurried down on the inside in all kinds of traffic, angling out to split horses, going for a hole that disappeared, while his 25/1 shot rolls with Johnny V--the more experienced rider. :faint:

Now, what y'all think Billy may have had in mind on that lovely afternoon?

Why, I bet he wasn't one bit surprised standing there having his picture taken with his supposed-to-be-up-the-track $52.50 winner, while his other runner, the second place finisher (paying $3.10) was headin' back to the barn.:lol:

I LOVE readin' NYRA's charts. They've got every track in the country beat on chart composition. They're short little essays, each one of 'em. In this one, it seems Chestoria "ran outta real estate."

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant_pdf.cgi?type=inc&country=USA&track=SAR&date=2010-07-31&race=1

Moaning 'bout being fleeced by Pletcher--his going off at 9/1?

Hell, Pletcher could line up behind Billy and take lessons. Billy pulled off a coup, and no one uttered a single little ole word.:lol:

Its a great game! . . . . A cagey one, too.

Unless it was a two-horse field, how did Mr. Badgett convince the rest of the field not to compete with his 25-1 shot?

[Grits]

Don't believe there was any implication made that Mr.Badgett dared such a thing. Simply noted an example of a cagey move--one, as it turned out, that paid well.

[exiles]

[QUOTE=Saratoga_Mike]

And what does it mean I have a "long long (sic) way to go?"[/QUOTE

As to understanding the whole racing game, and as very well said by R. GOREN in post 13 you can be sure that honest TP and his cronies new which of the 2 firsters was better or more ready to run,and they bet accordingly, taking full advantage of the new rule, why do you think they had that rule in place all these years? everybody loves tax free money, even TP.

[point given]

Funny you post about this particular MSW race where Pletcher had 2 horses in. The bet horse #5 with JV is owned by Ned Evans who has had a fair week of winning this past week and should have QR in the winners circle on saturday. Well, the on air talent theorized that one of the first time starters would beat the only horse who had raced and TP and JV was a likely one to do so. Then I remembered something about the 1 horse Maple Forest. The dam is Maple Syrple and a few years ago I bought a seat for the day from a guy who owned MS and she had won one of the filly 2 yo stakes races at the spa and they sold her for big $$. Of course I remembered this when they ran the 1/4 and the Maple Syrple thing kicked in. As it was , I was sitting out the day , so it was an , oh well. BUT , in this case the jock, JV, went with big owner, and Cohen got tossed a nice one, as the winter time rider for TP. BTW, TP usually bets $600 win as my buddy heard him when we sat at the next table a couple years ago.

[Saratoga_Mike]

[QUOTE=Saratoga_Mike]

And what does it mean I have a "long long (sic) way to go?"[/QUOTE

As to understanding the whole racing game, and as very well said by R. GOREN in post 13 you can be sure that honest TP and his cronies new which of the 2 firsters was better or more ready to run,and they bet accordingly, taking full advantage of the new rule, why do you think they had that rule in place all these years? everybody loves tax free money, even TP.

Do you actually know any trainers personally? You certainly don't know Todd Pletcher. Like I said, trainers are horrible handicappers and that statement applies to betting on their own horses. If you or others disagree with that statement, it's b/c you don't know any trainers personally. Are there exceptions? Sure, but they don't disprove the rule. You simply imagine the "insiders" are making all these huge scores. Hah.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Steve Crist speaking at a Legg Mason forum in Sept 2007:

"Nevertheless, participants in racing (owners, trainers, etc.) would rather steal a nickel than earn a dime. They all think that they've got big secret information. Just for the sport of it, I once kept track of a year's worth of tips that I received - the ROI was horrendous, less than 50 percent. I worked at the tracks in New York for several years. They had betting windows on the back stretch just for the help and the trainers. Out of morbid curiosity, I looked to see how well those windows did - the take was much higher there than anywhere else at the track. I am personally skeptical of pronouncements by people who claim to have specialized knowledge because most of the time, they are saying it for reasons of ego - they want to look important, and I am immediately skeptical. It pays to be skeptical. "

[PhantomOnTour]

[QUOTE=exiles]

Do you actually know any trainers personally? You certainly don't know Todd Pletcher. Like I said, trainers are horrible handicappers and that statement applies to betting on their own horses. If you or others disagree with that statement, it's b/c you don't know any trainers personally. Are there exceptions? Sure, but they don't disprove the rule. You simply imagine the "insiders" are making all these huge scores. Hah.
How true. I sat with my father in his box at FG for years, right smack in the middle of a bunch of trainer's boxes. They have no clue! I tried to put trainer Harry Hahn III on one of his OWN horses at 15-1 and he wouldn't have anything to do with it. After his horse won he said he thought he was a race away from having her ready. I won't name names, and these guys were not world beating trainers, but all they know is how THEIR horse is doing; not anyone elses'. Their job is to get the horse ready and my job is to evaluate the whole field.

[KingChas]

Funny post,
Pletcher made 80k on the race.
1st-50k
2nd-30k

Why would he have to bet?

If your a hard core Pletcher fan...........Bet both.
Bout time for this rule change...... :ThmbUp:

[Dahoss9698]

It dint take long for the manipulation of the uncoupled entries rule by T. PLETCHER see 5th race at SAR today, the # 1 at 9-1 ridden by COHEN breaks like a bullet and wins WW while her uncoupled mate #5 ridden by by PLETCHERS main man JV AND 4-1 just tags along for 2nd. THIEVES.

What a ridiculous post. Stop listening to the geezers at OTB. There is a reason they are broke everyday by 2pm.

[Robert Goren]

As for trainer being lousy handicappers, some are, some are not. This game got it start by people betting on their own horses. I know we have come a long way from humble beginnings, but anyone who thinks that a lot of horse people don't place a wager when they think they have a "good" thing is kidding themselves. Now race horse owners are generally very bad handicappers from what I have seen. They seem to be a race early when betting their own horses.

[exiles]

Funny post,
Pletcher made 80k on the race.
1st-50k
2nd-30k

Why would he have to bet?

If your a hard core Pletcher fan...........Bet both.
Bout time for this rule change...... :ThmbUp:


Are you sure all that money went in T.P pocket?
As for why he bet, why does the bear SH#@t in the woods.

[KingChas]

Are you sure all that money went in T.P pocket?
As for why he bet, why does the bear SH#@t in the woods.


No he didn't pocket 80k.......%
Do I care if he bets ....no it's parimutual wagering.

Seems to me every race that doesn't go someones way in the forum's here at PA turns into a James Bond movie.....I could give 2 Sh#t's personally.

[salty]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2008/08/17/2008-08-17_trainer_linda_rice_will_race_four_horses.html

Yes they did place 1-4

Yes it did pay over 3 grand

Yes I believed she could do it

Yes I completely changed my bet at the last minute and didn't hit a damn thing.
;)

[thespaah]

It dint take long for the manipulation of the uncoupled entries rule by T. PLETCHER see 5th race at SAR today, the # 1 at 9-1 ridden by COHEN breaks like a bullet and wins WW while her uncoupled mate #5 ridden by by PLETCHERS main man JV AND 4-1 just tags along for 2nd. THIEVES.I am not sure i get the connection. What makes you think there is a conspiracy?
Is it not possible that these two Pletcher trainees were the two best in the race?

[exiles]

No he didn't pocket 80k.......%
Do I care if he bets ....no it's parimutual wagering.

Seems to me every race that doesn't go someones way in the forum's here at PA turns into a James Bond movie.....I could give 2 Sh#t's personally.

I had no bet in the race i was just making a point.

[exiles]

I am not sure i get the connection. What makes you think there is a conspiracy?
Is it not possible that these two Pletcher trainees were the two best in the race?

Nobody is talking about a conspiracy or a fix.

[Dahoss9698]

Nobody is talking about a conspiracy or a fix.

Really? Here is the first post of the thread. Is "thieves" a compliment?

It dint take long for the manipulation of the uncoupled entries rule by T. PLETCHER see 5th race at SAR today, the # 1 at 9-1 ridden by COHEN breaks like a bullet and wins WW while her uncoupled mate #5 ridden by by PLETCHERS main man JV AND 4-1 just tags along for 2nd. THIEVES.

[KingChas]

It dint take long for the manipulation of the uncoupled entries rule by T. PLETCHER THIEVES.

Not busting yor chops exiles.
Just think your a little off the wall here.
A 2yo baby race were the trainer is betting on his longer priced entry after all his spys know the other 2yo's cant run based on their workouts.An easy score.
One off the hardest races to figure so many things can happen with these baby races.
So the trainer knowing the knew uncoupled rule should be manipulated asap lays big$ down knowing his longer priced horse is a lock and none of these other babys in the race might freak and run a giant race.
A little far fetched.
Plus borderline...slanderous.

[Relwob Owner]

Nobody is talking about a conspiracy or a fix.


Maybe I am wrong but I think the word "THIEVES" implies that someone is stealing something, doesnt it? The leap to being a conspiracy or a fix isnt a big one and that is what clearly came across when you started the thread.......I dont agree with your opinion and I disagree even more with the idea of starting such an accusatory thread and then backing down from it.

[Dahoss9698]

Pletcher just ran 1-2 in the 1st and the shorter priced horse won. Conspiracy!!!!

[overthehill]

this has been going for decades. My personal favorite thought was when parisella saddled a three horse entry in the overnights which had to be an entry in those days. then at some point he scratched one of the horses allowing the remaining two run as uncoupled. needless to say the longer price one won at a juicy 14-1.

PG johson pulled off a nice one stepping up a maiden claimer winner at the time Water Malone into an allowance where he had another horse running as a cofavorite. Water Malone won at about 30-1 and later won several graded stakes. This was in 1977 or 1978 I think.

[exiles]

Not busting yor chops exiles.
Just think your a little off the wall here.
A 2yo baby race were the trainer is betting on his longer priced entry after all his spys know the other 2yo's cant run based on their workouts.An easy score.
One off the hardest races to figure so many things can happen with these baby races.
So the trainer knowing the knew uncoupled rule should be manipulated asap lays big$ down knowing his longer priced horse is a lock and none of these other babys in the race might freak and run a giant race.
A little far fetched.
Plus borderline...slanderous.

If you are telling me that Pletcher and his circle who has been suspended (PLETCHER)numerous times for drug violations dint know which of the firsters was better and bet accordingly you are only fooling your self.

[Dahoss9698]

If you are telling me that Pletcher and his circle who has been suspended (PLETCHER)numerous times for drug violations dint know which of the firsters was better and bet accordingly you are only fooling your self.

Are you wearing a tin foil hat right now?

[Saratoga_Mike]

If you are telling me that Pletcher and his circle who has been suspended (PLETCHER)numerous times for drug violations dint know which of the firsters was better and bet accordingly you are only fooling your self.

Is it possible the longer priced horse didn't work as well as the favored horse in the morning, but he stepped up his game when it counted (i.e., the race)? If you think trainers always know how their firsters (or established horses for that matter) are going to run, you are the one with a lot to learn. Again, you obviously don't know any trainers personally. If you gamble, this is a good thing--such relationships/affiliations would only cost you money.

[exiles]

Is it possible the longer priced horse didn't work as well as the favored horse in the morning, but he stepped up his game when it counted (i.e., the race)? If you think trainers always know how their firsters (or established horses for that matter) are going to run, you are the one with a lot to learn. Again, you obviously don't know any trainers personally. If you gamble, this is a good thing--such relationships/affiliations would only cost you money.

You are entitled to your opinion. since you seem to know so much,please tell me why the coupled entree rule was put in. The only reason the rule was changed is because there is not enough horses to fill races, same like the OPT. CL. races.

[Saratoga_Mike]

You are entitled to your opinion. since you seem to know so much,please tell me why the coupled entree rule was put in. The only reason the rule was changed is because there is not enough horses to fill races, same like the OPT. CL. races.

I think the rule had and probably still has merit. But am I worried about chicanery involving Todd Pletcher and uncoupled entries? No.

[slewis]

What I dont understand about this rule is: (and feel free to help me out if I'm dumb and missing something)

If the purpose was to increase the betting interests per race, then why limit it to trainers?

If I, as an owner, choose to race two of my horses against each other, why shouldn't they run as separate betting interests too???

After all, I, the owner, have LESS control over "manipulation" then my trainer has.... As a matter of fact I have NO control over manipulation unless my trainer was in on the gig.

This is why I think the people who run racing in NY are a bunch of clueless clowns....:bang:

[Robert Goren]

The time jump on the longer priced one is when the shorter priced one is 6/5.

[Robert Goren]

Pletcher has so many horses that fit the same conditions he has to run them together a lot.

[exiles]

I think the rule had and probably still has merit. But am I worried about chicanery involving Todd Pletcher and uncoupled entries? No.

If you think TP won't do it so be it,but there are plenty of others that will, and you can take that to the bank.

[Fastracehorse]

If you think Todd Pletcher who is probably pulling down $2 mm/yr (when you include complementary breeding rights he receives) is attempting to fix races with his uncoupled entries (along with John Velazquez), then you should really stop betting altogether. If you think that's going on, how can you trust anything about racing? Why bet on something so crooked?

And what does it mean I have a "long long (sic) way to go?"

Pletcher has been doing this for years. I remember several instances at Gulfstream where Velasquez and his 2nd jock were uncoupled ; and the 2nd jock would win at a better price.

I knew to bet in him in this situation too - but somehow I messed it up.

This isn't anything new - Frankel used to be the master of this.

fffastt

[PaceAdvantage]

If you think TP won't do it so be it,but there are plenty of others that will, and you can take that to the bank.This is about as close to an apology as exiles is going to get...

[PaceAdvantage]

If you are telling me that Pletcher and his circle who has been suspended (PLETCHER)numerous times for drug violations dint know which of the firsters was better and bet accordingly you are only fooling your self.Define "numerous"

Can someone confirm how many times Pletcher has been suspended? I'm too lazy to do the research right now...

Something tells me I won't need all the fingers on my right hand to keep the count.

[Saratoga_Mike]

If you think TP won't do it so be it,but there are plenty of others that will, and you can take that to the bank.

That may be true.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Pletcher has been doing this for years. I remember several instances at Gulfstream where Velasquez and his 2nd jock were uncoupled ; and the 2nd jock would win at a better price.

I knew to bet in him in this situation too - but somehow I messed it up.

This isn't anything new - Frankel used to be the master of this.

fffastt

Are you saying JV was instructed by TP to intentionally not try?

[exiles]

Define "numerous"

Can someone confirm how many times Pletcher has been suspended? I'm too lazy to do the research right now...

Something tells me I won't need all the fingers on my right hand to keep the count.

What ever times it is it's still too many for a guy who trains for the millionaire's club.

[Saratoga_Mike]

What ever times it is it's still too many for a guy who trains for the millionaire's club.

Are medication overages more acceptable in claimers?

[KingChas]

If you are telling me that Pletcher and his circle who has been suspended (PLETCHER)numerous times for drug violations dint know which of the firsters was better and bet accordingly you are only fooling your self.

So we went from an uncoupled entry betting coup to drug violations.
Now I get it............."You just don't like TP"................ ;)

[exiles]

Are medication overages more acceptable in claimers?

How many positives does N.Zito or Shug have the also train for millionaires .

[exiles]

So we went from an uncoupled entry betting coup to drug violations.
Now I get it............."You just don't like TP"................ ;)

Any trainer who drugs his horses to win races, is capable of anything, and TP has been doing that for years.

[Saratoga_Mike]

How many positives does N.Zito or Shug have the also train for millionaires .

No clue - what's the answer?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Any trainer who drugs his horses to win races, is capable of anything, and TP has been doing that for years.

Well you've confirmed KC's contention that your real problem is with TP, not the uncoupled entry rule.

[exiles]

No clue - what's the answer?


NONE!!!

[exiles]

Well you've confirmed KC's contention that your real problem is with TP, not the uncoupled entry rule.

My problem is w/ all cheats, and juicers and TP falls into that category,he is in the same league as needles R.Dutrow i don't like him either.

[fmolf]

why would pletcher risk the trust or one or more of his owners by trying to fix an msw?....i think the idea is preposterous!

[exiles]

why would pletcher risk the trust or one or more of his owners by trying to fix an msw?....i think the idea is preposterous!

Its not a fix,is manipulating the rule change, you can be sure that the owner is betting on the right firster too.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Its not a fix, but the owner is betting on the right firster too.

But they were different owners, correct?

[Saratoga_Mike]

Its not a fix, but the owner is betting on the right firster too.

And if it wasn't a fix, what is the issue? Your issue is that Pletcher had more knowledge about his firsters than the general public? Okay how is that different than if he had just one horse in the race?

I don't think it's fair to compare TP to Rick Dutrow, but I respect your zero tolerance approach to medication violations.

[exiles]

And if it wasn't a fix, what is the issue? Your issue is that Pletcher had more knowledge about his firsters than the general public? Okay how is that different than if he had just one horse in the race?

I don't think it's fair to compare TP to Rick Dutrow, but I respect your zero tolerance approach to medication violations.

Not different , but i hate to give known juicers, more ways to cheat if they choose.

[therussmeister]

You are entitled to your opinion. since you seem to know so much,please tell me why the coupled entree rule was put in. The only reason the rule was changed is because there is not enough horses to fill races, same like the OPT. CL. races.
The rule was changed because NY does not allow superfecta betting in races with a coupled entry. They were losing to much handle. Why they didn't just change the rule to allow supers in races with coupled entries, I don't know.

[Fastracehorse]

Are you saying JV was instructed by TP to intentionally not try?

.............nope.

When you have two firsters the public will lean on the higher profile jock.

fffastt

[PaceAdvantage]

NONE!!!As usual, you are WRONG

Zito:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/2434/zito-suspended-fined-for-medication-positive

[Saratoga_Mike]

.............nope.

When you have two firsters the public will lean on the higher profile jock.

fffastt

So you believe TP would place the higher profile jock on the inferior part of the entry and bet accordingly? Otherwise, what's your point?

[Saratoga_Mike]

As usual, you are WRONG

Zito:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/2434/zito-suspended-fined-for-medication-positive

In light of this finding (thank you PA), Exile do you now "hate" Nick Zito?

[thespaah]

Nobody is talking about a conspiracy or a fix.
when someone mentions "Thieves" or other conspiracy oriented words regarding horse racing, it usually relates to race fixing.

[thespaah]

Define "numerous"

Can someone confirm how many times Pletcher has been suspended? I'm too lazy to do the research right now...

Something tells me I won't need all the fingers on my right hand to keep the count.I would like to see exiles produce some facts here.

[exiles]

I would like to see exiles produce some facts here.

http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F3/365/159/608885/

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=4851054

http://www.horseracingnews.net/horse-racing-industry/leading-horse-trainers-todd-pletcher-and-scott-lake-suspended-for-drug-use.php
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/tag/suspension

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/more/12/24/year.rest1231/

These only in the 1st minute of my search .

[exiles]

As usual, you are WRONG

Zito:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/2434/zito-suspended-fined-for-medication-positive

Sorry i missed that i only did a search for the last 5 years,i was right about Shug though, you need a lot of paper to fill T.P'S rap sheet though.

[exiles]

In light of this finding (thank you PA), Exile do you now "hate" Nick Zito?


Yes i do.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Yes i do.

Assuming Zito only has one positive (I don't know that, but let's assume that for now), isn't it a little harsh to "hate" him? Have you ever made a single mistake in your life?

[ohbaby]

All trainers look for an edge, be it meds, caulks, what have you. All trainers use medications, but sometimes beyond the allowed circumstances. Whether it be too soon to race time, or the incorrect anti inflammatory, or oxygen therapy, they all use something to gain an edge. It's just a fine line they walk, to make sure everything is done at the right time, proper and legal. And sometimes especially with big barns one or two might slip past the legal limitations accidentally.

Not to say this game is beyond reproach. I was shocked when that jock in the preakness got caught with a buzzer not too long ago. But on the whole, your pretty safe with the higher class thoroughbreds. (Too much money on the line)

That said, I like the uncoupled wagering. NY racing needs more betting interests and i can't tell you how many times I liked the longer of the two that were coupled in the wagering. Although, I generally shy away from coupled entries. Why run both if only one can win. Always thought if a trainer was high on one horse, why run two?

[ohbaby]

One other note... You will see alot more uncoupled entries in the future due to a shortage of horse flesh and a very limited condition book. Trainers of big barns don't have many spots to place their runners and will inevitably end up running them in the same races.

So this will be topic of uncoupled entries will have alot more senarios to gripe about. IE.. Pletcher, Baffert, etc...

[exiles]

Pletcher strikes again. see today's 2nd at the SPA/

[thespaah]

http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F3/365/159/608885/

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=4851054

http://www.horseracingnews.net/horse-racing-industry/leading-horse-trainers-todd-pletcher-and-scott-lake-suspended-for-drug-use.php
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/tag/suspension

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/more/12/24/year.rest1231/

These only in the 1st minute of my search .
I get it.
Now, I did not state nor imply there was NOT race fixing.
Your attempt at the old "pile on" is moot.
None of these has anything to do with your conspiracy theory that uncoupled horses in NY trained by the same person are involved in race fixing.
The stories in your link indicate that racing jusrisdictions are catching cheaters and dealing with them.
COnversely, it would be the absence of these reports that would lead me to believe there was crooked atuff going on and no was is watching.

[thespaah]

Pletcher strikes again. see today's 2nd at the SPA/
One of TP' shorses won at 7-1 capping a $78 exacta with a 7-2 in a field of 7 ..I'd say that's a pretty nice payoff at those odds in a field that size.
Where's the problem?

[exiles]

One of TP' shorses won at 7-1 capping a $78 exacta with a 7-2 in a field of 7 ..I'd say that's a pretty nice payoff at those odds in a field that size.
Where's the problem?


Read the tittle of the thread.

[Fastracehorse]

Read the tittle of the thread.

Pletch's other entrant was 9:5

lower profile jock for Pletch on longer priced horse

fffastt

[thespaah]

Pletch's other entrant was 9:5

lower profile jock for Pletch on longer priced horse

fffastt
Ex is convinced there is a conspiracy. So be it.

[Fastracehorse]

Ex is convinced there is a conspiracy. So be it.

bonus to everyone who is in the in

and why get angry about it - we should know wherever there is $ there is a game

fffastt

[Dahoss9698]

Uncoupled Pletcher entry runs 1-2 in the 2nd today. This time the shorter half runs down the longer half.

Exiles' head might have just exploded.

[Fastracehorse]

Uncoupled Pletcher entry runs 1-2 in the 2nd today. This time the shorter half runs down the longer half.

Exiles' head might have just exploded.

he's in trouble with the help :)

fffastt

[exiles]

Uncoupled Pletcher entry runs 1-2 in the 2nd today. This time the shorter half runs down the longer half.

Exiles' head might have just exploded.


Mine and needles TP,i bet you he hasn't stopped cursing JV yet.

[thespaah]

Mine and needles TP,i bet you he hasn't stopped cursing JV yet.jeez:sleeping:

[Fastracehorse]

......................his charge rolled home at 15-1. Longer price of uncoupled entry on the lawn.

At the Spa of course.....nice unvieling.

fffastt