Announced scratch allowed to run???

[wisconsin]

Race 2, Saratoga.

The :5: is an announced scratch, and suddenly before the race Durkin says he'll be running for purse money only. Huh? Suppose this horse causes other horses with actual money on them to have trouble during the race? :eek:

[tbwinner]

Must've been a screw-up in the horsemen's office or with the stewards. I agree though, it does change the outcome because of this horse's effect on the pace, running styles, etc.

Ended up last though.

[andymays]

I'm sure there is a good explanation.

It's the right thing to do because some of the people that turned in bets thinking the 5 was scratched and don't know about it won't have an opportunity to change their selections.

This is a good thing given the circumstances and protects the bettors.

[wisconsin]

This is a good thing given the circumstances and protects the bettors.


Easy to say that now, but this was a first time starter. Suppose he blew the turn and took 4 horses with him, veered sharply at the statrt, or ducked in through the stretch and slammed someone? Is that a good thing? Personally, I did not bet the race, nor would I have for the reasons I just stated. No harm done, of course, but I just don't understand how he is allowed to run after being an announced scratch.

[andymays]

Easy to say that now, but this was a first time starter. Suppose he blew the turn and took 4 horses with him, veered sharply at the statrt, or ducked in through the stretch and slammed someone? Is that a good thing? Personally, I did not bet the race, nor would I have for the reasons I just stated. No harm done, of course, but I just don't understand how he is allowed to run after being an announced scratch.

I would be guessing as to why this happened so I'm sure someone will post the real reason.

Any horse can get in trouble or cause trouble during a race.

[BMustang]

A number of years back the same thing happened at Ellis Park.

A speed horse in a later race was announced to be scratched throughout the card, and it wasn't until they were already in a Pick 3 that it was announced to be a "for purse money only" entry because of some racing office snafu.
With the scratch of the speed horse, it left another now-lone speed horse to bet.
You guessed it the FPMO hooked the live entry and the race turned over.

After the card Steward Ron Herbstriet came down to the bar for his usual post-races beers, and I confronted him about the situation. He didn't know what the big deal was - DUH! - and said that it wasn't the horseman's fault so they re-instated him. No consideration for the horseplayers!

[saratoga guy]

The potential problem in this type of scenario is something like Bmustang describes -- ie, the pace scenario changes either with or without the scratched/re-instated horse.

If the horse were to cause some sort of mishap during the race that really wouldn't reflect on the "non-scratch" situation.

But -- because a "for purse only" horse can possibly affect the outcome of a race strategically I've always advocated some type of symbol to be displayed on the odds board to reflect that - while there are no odds -- this horse is running. So people at simulcast outlets are readily aware of the situation (not everyone pays attention to the TV graphics crawl).

In the particular situation at Saratoga today I'm not sure what the time-window was between the announced scratch and the correction that the horse would run for purse-mony only. Theorhetically anyone betting during that window might have a gripe - but given the particular make-up of this field it's probably unlikely their gripe would go beyond the theorhetical.

[sandpit]

A number of years back the same thing happened at Ellis Park.

A speed horse in a later race was announced to be scratched throughout the card, and it wasn't until they were already in a Pick 3 that it was announced to be a "for purse money only" entry because of some racing office snafu.
With the scratch of the speed horse, it left another now-lone speed horse to bet.
You guessed it the FPMO hooked the live entry and the race turned over.

After the card Steward Ron Herbstriet came down to the bar for his usual post-races beers, and I confronted him about the situation. He didn't know what the big deal was - DUH! - and said that it wasn't the horseman's fault so they re-instated him. No consideration for the horseplayers!

I remember that because I was working there. Herbstreit was right, it wasn't the trainer's fault, somebody in mutuels accidently scratched the horse.

[JustRalph]

Easy to say that now, but this was a first time starter. Suppose he blew the turn and took 4 horses with him, veered sharply at the statrt, or ducked in through the stretch and slammed someone?

Come on ? That never happens......... I wasn't even playing today!

[cnollfan]

A number of years back the same thing happened at Ellis Park.

A speed horse in a later race was announced to be scratched throughout the card, and it wasn't until they were already in a Pick 3 that it was announced to be a "for purse money only" entry because of some racing office snafu.
With the scratch of the speed horse, it left another now-lone speed horse to bet.
You guessed it the FPMO hooked the live entry and the race turned over.

After the card Steward Ron Herbstriet came down to the bar for his usual post-races beers, and I confronted him about the situation. He didn't know what the big deal was - DUH! - and said that it wasn't the horseman's fault so they re-instated him. No consideration for the horseplayers!

One thing I HATE about NYRA graphics (I guess other places too, but NYRA has a lot more purse-money-only runners, it seems) is that the TV screen odds show SCR even when the purse-money-only horse is running. How hard would it be to have the odds display as PMO for a non-betting interest that is in the race? A few years ago they scratched one half of an entry in NY so the other one, a speed horse, ran for PMO. Not listening to the NY feed I didn't know this, looked up at the board a few minutes to post time and saw that a lone speed horse was left in the race at 20-1. I unloaded and did not know until they were putting horses in the gate that the speed half of the entry was in the race. 1A flies out of the gate like Dr. Fager, burning my horse to a crisp. I have lost on thousands of horses over the years and shake off almost all of them, but this one still riles me up.

[KingChas]

They had to let the horse run,he was from Germany. :D
You know the new world rules..........Oops,off topic.... :eek:

[bane]

Anybody know anything about this? What kind fo scratch was he, etc?

I did not expect this from New York.

[Robert Goren]

I am not a big pace handicapper, so explain to how having a firster running or not running effects your pace scenarios. I am not saying it doesn't, just wonder how.

[wisconsin]

It's not even about pace factors. It's about haviing another obstacle in a race where the potential to impede a live runner exists. There is no protection for you if you bet the impeded horse. Like I said, suppose this horse took out someone on the turn? Granted, nothing happened, but had something happened, then what would everyone think? I understand the :1: and :1a: thing. But if I had money on an impeded or wronged horse by a purse money only runner who was ALREADY announced as a scratch, I would be pissed. And I have never seen it before yeaterday.

[David-LV]

From what I heard on TVG.

There was some kind of mixup in the racing office with the horse's papers, so they scratch the horse, the racing office said it was not the owners fault so they put the horse back in race to run for purse only.

________
David-LV

[Robert Goren]

Let me get this straight, you will not bet a horse in the race because a firster might impead your horse. I think should not ever run a horse for purse money only. That because I want that horse run and be bet on.

[wisconsin]

I see your point Robert. I am always looking to minimize risk, and if this scenario exists, I'll pass. If you can't bet him, he should not be in the race. Just my thought. If he was as fast as the 1/2 shot winner, and dueld him into the submission, then what? Those playes get penalized, and the closer's backers get a gift.

[affirmedny]

Q. How is it any different than having a 99-1 shot in the race that doesn't belong in it?

A. It's not

[KingChas]

Q. How is it any different than having a 99-1 shot in the race that doesn't belong in it?

A. It's not

If the 99-1 wins but interferes with other horses he can be Dq'd.
In this case if the horse interfered with another horse the owner/trainer/etc are dq'd from the purse money.
If the horse you bet on was the result of the interference,and didn't finish in the money because of it...you lose.

Example your horse is flying on the rail,this purse money only horse impedes him.A horses on the outside rally's.Your horse who was going to win the race finishes 2nd..............you lose.
Yes this can happen with the 99-1 or a 1-1 also.

But if horses start running for purse money only, they can turn into NASCAR driver teamates.

That's how it's different.

[Stillriledup]

The only difference is if the situation happens at the last second and betting was already open.

[KingChas]

If they keep running horses in races for PMO.
They could eventually make the rabbits extinct.
Or should I say coup them ;)