If you we're given a chance

[Trotman]

If you we're given a chance to be mentored for a full year by any handicapper to improve your play, who would that one handicapper be and what would your reasons be for choosing this handicapper.

[shouldacoulda]

This is a tough one but it would be a toss up between James Quinn and Jim Lehane. James Quinn IMO is one of the knowledgeable/intelligent handicappers I have ever heard or read. There are no theatrics, just raw fact with him.

[Learned Hand35]

At this point, anybody. Freezing cold streak. I know it is a lack of discipline, but my faith in my handicapping has really been shaken the last month or so.

Someone who could teach discpline and lead by example of how to have icewater veins would fit the bill.

[judd]

pace advantage

[senortout]

Without naming names, I'd like to sit in with a guy or gal who uses some common sense in their handicapping, someone who could help eliminate horses based on what they've learned about the game. I also believe more and more the old adage, time matters if you spend it in jail, etc., etc.

I have handicapped races on a constant basis for low returns, and this past month and a half have attained -0.02 roi, betting to show or in some cases, place. I have no desire to hit the pick six or even the pick 3. Exactas are a posssibility in the future, though. I no longer bet long shots, I now bet logical horses only, some of whom happen to be longshots(had a show ticket on a 54.00 win horse the other day, just move on. Doesn't even bother me like it used to. The idea is to cash, frequently and in bunches if possible. Last year strings included 13 straight show tickets(I play the whole card, contrary to what many people believe, it is my opinion that you will never learn whats happening on the racetrack out there if you don't get your feet wet. Occasionally, I find myself saying, just as the flag falls, you shouldn't have played that horse. Oftentimes, these are the races where I have erred. But its not races that others describe as 'chaotic'. Its rather races where I have overlooked a strong possibility. I will never dip deeper into my resources until I correct my present errors. Now in my 70's, if I may say so, I know what I know, and also what I don't know. I know how to pick a horse, but I don't know how to maximize my return on that knowledge. Confidence is such a huge factor in handicapping. I guess the betting part is the hardest. Someone with the smarts to confirm or not confirm that I am good enough to move forward......I guess thats the kind of handicapper I'd like to associate with. Sorry for the wordiness of this post.

[michiken]

Tom,

As long as you supply the Labatt's Ice, I could hang with ya for a year!


Ken

[cnollfan]

it is my opinion that you will never learn whats happening on the racetrack out there if you don't get your feet wet.

I tend to agree.

I would like to spend time with the late Mr. Bradshaw. I don't know very much about him or his methods but what I do know is intriguing.

[point given]

Mitchell or Meadows for common sense and making me demand value more

[Trotman]

Seeing that I started this thread I think it only right that I should give my selection and reasons. I have read just about every book on handicapping and the collection of books in my library is huge. Since the beginning Ray Taulbot and his idea's on pace and it's effects on the overall outcome always would hold my attention to this very day. After reading Randy Giles book Extreme Handicapping and Jim Lehane's Calibration Handicapping in my opinion they are modern day Taulbot. Randy on his site wrote he was indebted to Ray Taulbot and his software was based on Taulbot so I feel that if I had that one chance to be metored for a year by a handicapper I think I would want that person to be Randy Giles and in a perfect situation each day we would be sitting next to Jim Lehane at the track.

[Tom]

TLG.....because he has mastered the part of the game I am clueless about. I watch races like I watch cartoons. :rolleyes:

[njcurveball]

Ken Massa. :ThmbUp:

[Cardus]

Paul Malecki.

[Vinnie]

Seeing that I started this thread I think it only right that I should give my selection and reasons. I have read just about every book on handicapping and the collection of books in my library is huge. Since the beginning Ray Taulbot and his idea's on pace and it's effects on the overall outcome always would hold my attention to this very day. After reading Randy Giles book Extreme Handicapping and Jim Lehane's Calibration Handicapping in my opinion they are modern day Taulbot. Randy on his site wrote he was indebted to Ray Taulbot and his software was based on Taulbot so I feel that if I had that one chance to be metored for a year by a handicapper I think I would want that person to be Randy Giles and in a perfect situation each day we would be sitting next to Jim Lehane at the track.

Jim Lehane is a brilliant man with his own refreshing take on racing and handicapping in general. I Loved his book and he is a true gentleman to boot.
If afforded the opportunity, I would very much enjoy being able to spend any time that he would allow with him at the track to take in any information that he may be willing to share. Every one of the folks mentioned thus far are or were excellent in their own right as well.

[Dan Montilion]

Ron Cox. I was lucky and not only did i get a year sitting with Ron it was about a decade.

[JustRalph]

Crist

I can pick horses............ I need to learn how to bet

[tribecaagent]

Whom you would choose to teach the guitar = Eric Clapton
Whom you would choose to teach the game of golf = Butch Harmon
Whom you would choose to teach the art of handicapping thoroughbred races = Ernie Dahlman

[dansan]

pittsburgh phil

[proximity]

from this board: probably someone like sjk.

from the world of handicapping books: probably discussing paceline selection with quinn.

[Actor]

If you we're given a chance to be mentored for a full year by any handicapper to improve your play, who would that one handicapper be and what would your reasons be for choosing this handicapper.
William Quirin, because his book Winning at the Races makes sense.

[cj]

TLG.....because he has mastered the part of the game I am clueless about. I watch races like I watch cartoons. :rolleyes:

He is killing the Saratoga meet right now.

[Bruddah]

This may seem like some pucker up post, but I would take Cj or Randy Moss or Jeff at JCapper. I really think they are on top of the game and can teach an old graying capper some new tricks. Besides being scholarly about this game, they comport themselves as gentlemen.

[nalley0710]

pittsburgh phil
I agree 100%. I wonder if he would think parimutuel betting is worse than betting with the bookmakers of his era.

[baldvin]

tom brohamer

[dav4463]

Jessica Pacheco

[Sericm]

Barry Meadow because I believe you would get great handicapping and most importantly how to manage your money.

[KingChas]

Being honest,no handicapper,but a programmer that makes house calls.
So I can quicken my fig making from Half/computer+Half/ typing in info.
Print out is fine.
But, it takes about an hour a card=which leads to severe burnout after 3+ days a week.
This is for a year right? :D


CJ did it (Fig program) and I applaud him......This is difficult.

PS;After the programming, I will pick a capper. ;)

[Hoofhearted]

A guy named Gary Selby -- an ex-bookmaker of 30 years standing who "went over" to being a professional backer of USA racing rather than a bookmaker. He has a slot on ATR every Sunday presenting the Stateside show. What I would give to share a few beers with him and hear his thoughts.
An excellent handicapper, Gary always emphasises "finding value" as an integral element of successful betting also by playing the difference between his own line and the official odds.
Oh, and he tips up an uncanny amount of winners too. :)

[only11]

Cramer....

[Pace Cap'n]

Crist

I can pick horses............ I need to learn how to bet

Jim Lehane for that, also.

In his materials, he devotes almost as much space to bet structure as handicapping, one of the very few authors to do so.

And I, too, would go with Jessica Pacheco.

[rastajenk]

Jessica PachecoAmen, bruddah. :jump:

Oh, wait, that's probably copyrighted. :blush:

[classhandicapper]

I have little interest in how other people handicap anymore. The only person I can think of that I'd like to spend some time with is Paul Cornman.

Years ago I used to spend at least a week at Saratoga every year. Paul Cornman was often there and he used to hang out in the same area that I did. Occasionally, I would overhear his conversations about races later in the card or replays of races he was watching. I learned as much in just a handful of conversations like that than I did in years of reading and hanging out with anyone else.

[LottaKash]

I would love to shoot the breeze and hangout with Mark Cramer....He is the "ANGLES" guy, imo.....Besides, he still plays and wins at the "darkside" of horse-racing (harness).....:cool:

best,

[Grits]

If you we're given a chance to be mentored for a full year by any handicapper to improve your play, who would that one handicapper be and what would your reasons be for choosing this handicapper.

Those who've written books have sold their expertise, their knowledge to many. Sold being the operative word. They've educated generations, and this has been the reader's good fortune as well as the author's. Not everyone, though, is, or cares to be an author.

In complete honesty, when I have no interest in other's handicapping, do I feel I'm better than those that have come before me and those that will follow me? Perhaps. However, I doubt I'll ever achieve this level.

Were I given the chance to be mentored for a year by any handicapper today?

It would be two--Craig Millkowski and Ernie Dahlman, both, go quietly about their work in a low profile manner. Each, successful, and unencumbered by the need for boasting, fanfare or accolades. In an arena where much is driven by one's profile and product awareness, there's a great deal to be gleaned from the understated.

Both handicappers are paradigms of the old Southern adage, "if you've got it, I'll know it; you won't have to tell me."

[Fingal]

I would love to shoot the breeze and hangout with Mark Cramer....He is the "ANGLES" guy, imo.....Besides, he still plays and wins at the "darkside" of horse-racing (harness).....:cool:

best,

Same, because vodoo selection is a large part of what I do.

But to hear, take it & not just listen to, that would he person that that no one has heard of. Because those that are consistently successful stay under the radar.

[HuggingTheRail]

Whobet :1:

[RaceBookJoe]

For laughs.... in a steel cage i would sit between either only11 and dahoss -or- tom and zilly :lol:


For real : dead....pittsburg phil or lou holloway
alive.... honestly, was too many, not sure i would want to sit with somone who has a great knowledge either pace, race shapes, turf racing or synthetic surface racing. tough decisions rbj

[WJ47]

Definitely Andy Serling. I love New York racing and I think he's the best handicapper for NYRA tracks. I watch his show online on race days and it's excellent. I try other tracks occasionally on dark days, but I really only get excited about NYRA tracks!

[thaskalos]

Those who've written books have sold their expertise, their knowledge to many. Sold being the operative word. They've educated generations, and this has been the reader's good fortune as well as the author's. Not everyone, though, is, or cares to be an author.

In complete honesty, when I have no interest in other's handicapping, do I feel I'm better than those that have come before me and those that will follow me? Perhaps. However, I doubt I'll ever achieve this level.

Were I given the chance to be mentored for a year by any handicapper today?

It would be two--Craig Millkowski and Ernie Dahlman, both, go quietly about their work in a low profile manner. Each, successful, and unencumbered by the need for boasting, fanfare or accolades. In an arena where much is driven by one's profile and product awareness, there's a great deal to be gleaned from the understated.

Both handicappers are paradigms of the old Southern adage, "if you've got it, I'll know it; you won't have to tell me."Who is Craig Millkowski...and if he is really that "sharp"...why haven't I heard of him?

[Pace Cap'n]

Who is Craig Millkowski...and if he is really that "sharp"...why haven't I heard of him?

There might be an extra "l" thrown in, but if you've seen posts from "CJ", that be him.

[Grits]

There might be an extra "l" thrown in, but if you've seen posts from "CJ", that be him.

Believe I did throw in one extra.

Not worried, though; one does well to get the spelling of any Polish name even close. :lol:

[TheBid9]

I believe even just an afternoon sitting between Brohamer and Quinn would blow my mind, but if I had to make a choice, it would be Quinn. The guy has presented more information to the horse player than anyone else! If Mitchell was alive, he'd be forcing me to construct my own betting line. Randy Giles would be a blast too and Pandolfo is an unsung hero. A highly respected handicapper that's been "showin what he's got" for decades.

[raybo]

The only guy that has held my interest long enough to read his book cover to cover, several times, Pittsburgh Phil!!!

[JohnGalt1]

I do OK with what's available in the the pp's, but I know little or nothing about body language, so my answer would be Joe Takach, or Bonnie Ledbetter.

[kenwoodall2]

Ron Ellis if I get to watch him train while being tutored!

[Tom]

Now that I think about it, sorry Andy, but I gotta go with Christine Olivares! I mean, it is for a year. :cool:

[andymays]

Now that I think about it, sorry Andy, but I gotta go with Christine Olivares! :cool:

It's Ok. I'll get over it. ;)

[citygoat]

My wife.... she says she's always right

[Robert Goren]

Gordon Jones or maybe Scott McMannus.