Anyone using URTI?

[jackad]

Is anyone actually using (or has actually tried during a trial period) Tom Console's new program The Ultimate Race Track Investor? If so, I would greatly appreciate yor sharing your experience with this software. Please, actual experience, not just opinion as to Tom's credibility or experience with his past programs.
Thanks.
Jack

[GameTheory]

I think Jaguar posted a little something about it in one of those Tom Console threads...

[sq764]

I was going to respond, but then I just read your request about his past programs (Snap Crap Pro).. So I won't say anything..

[little burt]

:) i received the program about two weeks ago and i am haveing good results with it so far the key seem to be haveing a good size data base to work from, which i am in the process of building, i think it will work out ok once i get my data base built. little burt

[midnight]

:rolleyes:

Has anybody with MORE than 10 posts who doesn't program for Tom Console and isn't otherwise associated with him used this program?

[kitts]

Hey Midnight- Maybe you want to alert Sufferindowns and Hurrikane-

I have more than 10 posts.
I don't program for Tom Console.
I am not affiliated with Tom.
I have the program and it works. It has several different looks at a race and a decent database manager so the user can check how the various sub-programs are doing.

Now as to claims-Tom is up there with Dave Powers, Mike Pizzolla, Dick Mitchell and some others at promising the program will do what it probably will not.

More than one survey of system sellers and purveyors of software have established that people respond to these claims and the product sells better. Not noble, perhaps. But it sells software.

[Trysharder]

I have been checking URTI and it does pick some winners but I haven't found a way to make a profit with it. Almost all of its winning picks are favorites at the track I use. It also hits some exactas if you use the snap 1 and 4 top three selections. This is usually a 4 horse box . Can probably be trimmed down but I haven't found out how yet. Also tried the "King"method. Does real well some days but a bad day wipes out your gains.

[Jaguar]

Jackad, the problem with URTI is not that it's a bad program, it's not. The problem is that URTI is a bit awkward to use and that there are much better programs out there.

Among URTI's disappointing aspects are:

1. Main handicapping screen simply rates horses. Does not give a statistical probability of a horse winning a race, based upon track-specific models.

2. The "automatic bet selection" feature is disastrous.

3. Accessing the "database and modeling" feature is awkward. This is something which should have been seemlessly integrated into the main handicapping screen.

Altogether, even though URTI incorporates Tom's Snapcapper Pro speed and pace formula- a decent, but not great routine- URTI is disappointing. In 1989 URTI would have been "state of the art".

Today, I believe that it would be very difficult to sell URTI.

I have conveyed my misgivings about URTI to Tom, who is a great guy and an excellent handicapper. I hate like hell to criticize a handicapping program produced by a decent human being whose intentions are sincere.

However, I'm a fanatical handicapper and have very high expectations for any new horse program. Available handicapping methods are beautifully integrated programs which ship with very accurate track-specific models- using the latest neural nets.

It would be a daunting task for anyone- programmer or non-programmer- to construct a horse handicapping approach which could challenge the 3 best programs on the market.

Tom Console may yet be heard from, and if he does once again enter the fray, I hope his new program will be a monster. Tom deserves to succeed.

All The Best,

Jaguar

[cj]

Originally posted by Jaguar

...Tom Console may yet be heard from, and if he does once again enter the fray, I hope his new program will be a monster. Tom deserves to succeed.

All The Best,

Jaguar

Just curious, but why does he "deserve" to suceed? He did nothing here but try to get free advertising for his product if memory serves, which is iffy at best for me :)

[Jaguar]

CJ, URTI flopped and the sharks went into a feeding frenzy. The treatment Tom receives on PA reminds me of what happened to Jimmy Carter when he failed to take vigorous steps to get our hostages back.

Jimmy Carter was a seriously lousy leader. Tom Console's only sin is that he issued a mediocre horse program.

It's normal- human nature- to push one's own product a bit.

Tom's an ethical developer. Takes phone calls and returns a disappointed buyer's money.

Tom doesn't hide behind a dead website, silent and un-reachable, like one developer who posts on PA.

'Nuff said.

All The Best,

Jaguar
Tom labors away at solving the handicapping puzzle. But, he doesn't have the resources the big boys have

[RaceGoer]

I never have posted on here, just read a lot. But I thought I should put my 2 cents in about URTI. I bought URTI and have no problems with it. Jaguar...how much easier can a program be to use? I download into it, and I am done in about 2 minutes with a full day. So far I have a couple months worth of data in the model. I only find about 2 to 4 races a day to bet but it makes me money. Wont get rich, but will anyone get rich betting? I had a few questions for Mr. Console when I first started, and he answered them within a few hours in great detail. Some of you guys sound like you have more problems than just horse racing.
RG

[Jaguar]

RaceGoer, the problem is not that a guy can't make money with URTI. As I stated earlier, URTI does work- it's a decent program.

The problem appears when URTI output is bench-marked against a program which produces strong models.

The first card I used URTI on(native mode, no models) the program dumped a horse which the software I use indicated was a stickout. That horse romped and paid $7.

Also of concern is the fact that due to the limited range of the algorithms in URTI, the program is unlikely to conduct the subtle analysis of trainer moves which all the best handicapping programs do.

Basically, URTI is an enhanced speed and pace program, rather limited in scope. Moreover, SnapCapper Pro, which I like alot, is not the best speed and pace analysis available.

My guess is that if Tom ever upgrades URTI, he will widen its scope and augment its analytical function with new algorithms.

Theoretically, Tom and his programmer could turn URTI into a real contender for handicapping honors.

But, other horse programs have set the bar so high that now it's a really tough mountain for developers to climb.

All The Best,

Jaguar

My guess would be that Tom will widen the scope of this program

[Derek2U]

GOOD SUNDAY MORNING to YA .... off to mass @ 10 so heres
my message: FORGET ABOUT WINNING SOFTWARE. IT CAN
EXIST BUT YOU'RE UNLIKELY TO EVER GET IT. Now, what to do:
For what seems like the 500,000th Time, HERE IS what to do:
**************************************************
FIRST, Get your hands on a VERIFIABLE program that brings
you close to Break-Even. This program should be ONLY WIN
PICKS ---no exotics. GOT that already: ~~BREAK EVEN FROM
SELECTING WINNERS ONLY.********Next, Derive a formula that
takes those WIN SELECTIONS and answers THIS QUESTION:
SHOULD I BET THAT HORSE TO WIN or SHOULD I USE IT "ON TOP"
in Exactas?******* Trust me here, This Question is Essential!!!
****** Lastly, Take your action to Pinnacle or Whatever OffShore
REBATE house there is. Lets say you pump $500,000 a year thru
that OffShore Acct .... and now, with your system before rebates,
you are maybe +2% .... suddenly, with rebates, you're +8% ...
thats 40K for doing "nothing." --- But all 3 steps are needed because, as I've posted before, if you BEGIN with a good program
that lets say is -2% --- through Step2, OnTOp with Exactas, that
-2% can easily become a +3%. Now, with Rebates, well ****
************Explore this approach.

********** BTW, thank you Bubbles for Silent Sighs in the
War Room.... more of you regs should join us there for fun talks
and good capping. Derek

[RaceGoer]

Jaguar:
All you do is act like you know it all, but you seem to know nothing. You claimed in your older posts to be using that dinosaur called Multi Strats, and you also give RaceCom high marks. MultiStrats scammed me and many others out of money and racecom always says they are the best, then curses you on the phone if you question them. How big was your model when you say URTI dumped a $7 horse? What correllation did you base it on? I am tired of reading your long winded posts that say nothing. They do get me to sleep on time though.
I am not trying to tell anyone URTI is the answer to all problems. I have losing days with it, but have more than paid for the program many times over already. But I am sick and tired of seeing good people get knocked on this board, and then see those 2 scam artists get good comments. Maybe you need to face the reality that some of you will never make money at this, and others will. Nothing to be ashamed of. Some people do well in the stock market...I lose my a**. But at least now at racing I am earning over 35% ROI over the last 2+ months. But I am being disciplined and not gambling..just betting when I know I have an advantage based on my model.
RG

[Tom]

Well, I'm gettin' in line early for this one.
We got a program here that picked a 5-2 shot! Yikes!
State fo the Art, baby.
Where do I send my check??????
:rolleyes:

[Jaguar]

RaceGoer, I understand from your latest post that you don't want a discussion of what types of software people like, or a discussion of the features in that software.

As a result, you wind up making a personal attack on someone you have never met- let alone spent time at OTB with.

May I suggest that if we all stop commenting on software, it will result in less information about new programs for all of us.

Moreover, there are a handful of folks who consistently lash out at others on this board. That fact doesn't deter an old, thick-skinned guy like me- but it undoubtedly discourages lurkers who might other-wise make positive contributions to the handicapping community.

I would emphasize that because there is no rating service, or clearing house for handicapping software- this forum is- for me- one of the highlights of this excellent board.

Until the time comes when the "perfect" handicapping program appears on the market, guys will undoubtedly praise or condemn various handicapping methods on PA. -Except the hard-core haters, who will surely continue an un-interrupted string of personal insults aimed at people they don't know.

There is one admirable quality about the haters- they attack equally posters who make positive comments about software and posters who make critical comments about software. That is, the haters have a certain sense of fairness- they hate certain people regardless-.

All The Best,

Jaguar

[Derek2U]

ur a trouble maker. Put up or whatever, but if racing teaches us
1 thing its to be humble. So show us your capping heights or
just keep quiet on what "could be" --- we ALL know what could B.

[Tom]

You are mistaking "attack" and "request for data."
So far, you have offered nothing but your opinion with noting to back it up. Claims that other well respected software developers who are well represented here are selling second rate programs are to me an attack by you.
As Derek said, put up of shut up.

[Derek2U]

Jaguar ... i read my post and i realized thats not what i really
meant to say. i'm sure you know the software stuff and what
i want to know is .... Do u think software exists that make a
Profit ( and lets skip the usual BS ... we're all knowledgabe
here with the math etc etc)) ---- maybe, what would the ideal
program have? for me, its a NEAR BREAK-EVEN ROI. who cares.
if it loses < 4 %. Any number from +2 to -4 is OK. ... so tell me,
whats out there & good?

[sq764]

When you say "makes a profit".. What do you mean?

[Trysharder]

I have been checking Tom Consoles URTI and while I was a bit disappointed with it at first I am beginnijng to see some real bright spots. I have checked numerous systems of all kinds and while a lot are junk, many just need to be worked. One method I sometimes use (not Tom's) is a real loser unless you don't bet a ML under 4/1 Then it has an exceptional ROI. Out of them 232 races it picked to bet, there were 54 wins(23.28%) and an ROI of $1.36. Place and show also have a positive ROI and this is a mismash of tracks. I have also checked it on a 1400 race data base and it had an even higher ROI there. My complaints are long losing streaks and not many plays. Using URTI I have found a way that doesn't get many plays but the win has over 300% profit and the show 250%. Checked it against all the races I have for this year on the computer and then manually checked some races from last year that were not in the program. It has held up all the way. In case you think I am starry eyed I have been betting on horse for over 45 years, lived in Las Vegas for over 20 years and knew a lot of the gamblers there. One of the things I love to do is check systems and I sure haven't found many that paid. Anytime I put my money down I can assure you I have an edge.

[Jaguar]

Tom, unless my reasoning is way off base, I understand that this forum is for airing opinions, questions, and comments about software.

Every computer handicapper favors the software package that more or less meets their needs and their particular viewpoint: speed and pace, connections, overlays, etc.

Since my particular bent is "comprehensive" programs which track- among other facets of a horse's past performances- trainer moves, tricks, and patterns- I look for key horse's which fit the criteria my models indicate are statistically likely to win.

I don't bet unless the software tells me the race shows a consistency rating of 72% or above. I find that the "integrity" of the race is important in predicting the likely outcome. I want the actual running of the race to unfold as close to the computer prediction as possible( I don't want my closer to be pressed early and burnout, etc.)

Years ago I was a strict speed and pace guy. But, I lost too much money to wiley trainers, so I moved over into the "connections" camp- where I am today.

There are so many good programs out there, but only a few "super" programs.

When a new program appears, if the guys at OTB don't soon have it on their laptops, I ask the developer to send me 3 days of output via e-mail.

I then handicap those same races and compare the new program's predictions with my software's models.

To date, I have only seen 3 programs which can equal the power and accuracy of the models in my database. Of course, I'm really not comparing apples to apples, because when I handicap I use 2 computer programs in tandem- so there is no precise correlation to a single handicapping method.

For example, at 7 furlongs my speed and pace disc gives excellent "late pace" ratings when a strong horse is stretching outfrom 6f- and when that factor is combined with the favorable "key horse" rating already assigned to that same animal, I have a bet, unless the mutuels drop below even money.

Class drops usually figure in these "key horse" ratings and for some reason several of the popular speed and pace discs sometimes under-rate that aspect. I found that to be particularly true when I was using the program called "FOCUS", several years ago.

I have already discussed why I like certain software programs in old posts, so no need to go over the subject again.

Summing up, as I always say, the best models get the money.

And really, whatever software works for a guy is good software.

We all like different things- and I'm glad that I like blondes and brunettes. Too bad that I'm too old to go after the 24-year olds
anymore. Such is life.

All The Best,

Jaguar

[RaceGoer]

Hi Try:
I dont know if you use the model in URTI the way I do, but one thing I have noticed that Mr. Console pointed out to me in his first e-mail to me. Breaking it down by sex...females only/ males ...really makes a difference. I have seen many things that lose money in URTI, but when I break it down, races for females may be losing BIG, while races for males are making great profits. Same with using distance. I usually break down by sprint/route rather than exact distance. And age groups helps a lot too. You mentioned 300% profits in your post. I did not even bother to mention some plays I get that are doing almost (not quite though) as good as I would probably be accused of being a s"shill". And honestly, most of my plays are in the 35% profit range. I am doing the same thing like you mentioned. I do my model search based on sex and ODDS. I usually use morning line. I see some factors hitting well over 50% with over 100% profits when played in sprints for males, at m/l odds of 1-1 thru 3-1. And using lower odds ranges like this keeps my number of plays up, although not close to every race. On the oppsoite end, I have some stats showing races for females doing real well when played at 8-1 thru 12-1 m/l odds. But the win % is much much lower.
Glad to see some positive comments for a change, rather than the bashing that runs wild on this board. Bashing doesnt help make money. Positive posts, no matter how you are making your $$, or what you are using to do it with, is what helps us all.
RG

[Jaguar]

Derek, responding to your question- since today there is so much strong software out there- some of which makes excellent models, the answer is yes- a handicapper can make a profit.

The age-old problem of course is that horse racing is a "spot" game and we have to wait for a key horse which statistically fits the model for a winner in that type of race- at that track.

The biggest boost I've ever gotten in this game is from track-specific models, and in 1994 I began to see excellent models- using Dave Schwartz's brilliant TB4.

As time went by, handicapping program developers stepped up their game, and now we have excellent programs such as Equisim, which are fast, easy to use, make strong models and- in the case of Equisim- is supported by Nathan, who tirelessly improves his product... (Other developers should be half so committed to excellence.)

The handicapping struggle is further complicated by the mindset of the individual handicapper. That is, people have different viewpoints- different outlooks- on horse racing.

A case in point is a guy I know at OTB who always says "Just tell me who the fastest horse is, I'll worry about the rest of it".

Not a good philosophy, unless a guy wants to bet the "big Beyer" favorites all day.

Since horse handicapping is such a demanding- and complicated activity- I've found that the really comprehensive programs(All-Ways Professional Version being an example which everyone knows about) make the best models.

It sounds trite, and too simple to be true, but I really believe that the handicapper equipped with the best information will win more money.

Example, when I used Sartin-based speed discs(and I bought a ton of them) I couldn't make money consistently. Once I switched to TB4, I started killing the exactas at Philadelphia Park. Simply because Dave's models were more comprehensive in scope and because the neural nets were so powerful.

My point being, that a number of the horse programs sold today are basically short-changing the handicapper who uses them by not analyzing enough information.

Yet, undoubtedly, there are folks who like those rather limited programs and who will defend them- while there's another guy, 5 seats down at OTB, who's handicapping with a stronger program and winning the other guy's money.

If I'm trying to win money, I want the best product, and the best models- and today it's easy to compare the output from different programs. Software developers are usually delighted to show a handicapper 3 days of output.

All The Best,

Jaguar

[bestbet]

What is the price tag of
Tom Console's URTI program .
I ask cause it is for sale elsewere for half price.
thanks:eek:

[Trysharder]

Current price on his website is $495. Think it originally sold for $795