Dumb "tourist" money?

[Tape Reader]

Hi All,

I often hear that tracks like Saratoga and Delmar present big rewards for the discerning PP reader, as "tourist" money is dumb.

As a tote board reader, I have no knowledge of the PP's. Can "dumb" money be quantified?

Will a successful jockey, successful trainer, cause odds to be significantly below the ML? Does the track handicapper take all of this into consideration?

Thank you All in advance.

[misscashalot]

Hi All,

I often hear that tracks like Saratoga and Delmar present big rewards for the discerning PP reader, as "tourist" money is dumb.

As a tote board reader, I have no knowledge of the PP's. Can "dumb" money be quantified?

Will a successful jockey, successful trainer, cause odds to be significantly below the ML? Does the track handicapper take all of this into consideration?

Thank you All in advance.

It makes no difference what causes quantification of the key factor(s) you concentrate on.
If you're a successful tote board reader you should know what the key is.

[Lasix67]

Cramer wrote about this in his Kinky Handicapping book as he said "watch the odds move at the 7 minute mark as all the dumb money comes pouring in". His out of the box theory on tote betting is one of the most valuable lessons I learned early in my handicapping.

[46zilzal]

Maybe not now, but it used to occur a lot at the Winter Florida meets.

[thespaah]

Hi All,

I often hear that tracks like Saratoga and Delmar present big rewards for the discerning PP reader, as "tourist" money is dumb.

As a tote board reader, I have no knowledge of the PP's. Can "dumb" money be quantified?

Will a successful jockey, successful trainer, cause odds to be significantly below the ML? Does the track handicapper take all of this into consideration?

Thank you All in advance.
Yes. Favorites at Saratoga tend ot get bet down more so than downstate.
Also, on some occasions the incorrect horse is the betting favorite.
I have always maintained that pencils aren't quite so sharp at Saratoga.
Tourist money. I take advanatage of it. It is what it is.

[point given]

Yes. Favorites at Saratoga tend ot get bet down more so than downstate.
Also, on some occasions the incorrect horse is the betting favorite.
I have always maintained that pencils aren't quite so sharp at Saratoga.
Tourist money. I take advanatage of it. It is what it is.

Let's see, they do like $14 mil total combined per day and $3mil of it ontrack so,
around 22% on track. How much of that is dumb ? I doubt this has as much a factor as before simulcasting.:eek:

[thespaah]

Let's see, they do like $14 mil total combined per day and $3mil of it ontrack so,
around 22% on track. How much of that is dumb ? I doubt this has as much a factor as before simulcasting.:eek:
What's your question?.. I did not state it was dumb money.
Please accept what I wrote as literal. Thanks.

[point given]

What's your question?.. I did not state it was dumb money.
Please accept what I wrote as literal. Thanks.

Maybe I'm being obtuse, but what was your point ?

[thespaah]

Maybe I'm being obtuse, but what was your point ?Yes to your "maybe".
I thought I was quite clear in my original post.
Let me state it this way.. 22% of $14 million IS significant.
I do not understand your willingness to turn this into an argument.
Out.

[KingChas]

This thread has a lot of truth to it.
On my recent visits to the track I actually started checking out people entering.
9 of 10 people 90%.Nothing in their hands no forms,no papers,sheets etc.
Unless they have them in their plastic beer coolers. :confused:
I was shocked.
I have the form and my figs printed out and homework done.
I think most people bet the toteboard and I mean odds not wps pools.
Or bet the program picks.
In reality horseracing being a parimutual sport.
I love to see this. ;)

PS;
If Saratoga wouldn't put the prerace inhouse commentary and picks on the big screens before each race.
My longshots would be longershots.
Cringe when I hear them say a horse I like at odds has a chance. :D

[Robert Goren]

If there was ever such a thing as "dumb tourist" money, it is now buried by all of the smarter money coming in from off site.

[KingChas]

Very true Robert sometimes,remind's me of a last minute plunger from Vegas years ago.
Betting Philadelphia Park simo,he must of a got a bad tip.He was betting all early speed horses on a day when the track was playing to heavy closers.
Didn't work to well for him.
Christmas in July for me.

[cnollfan]

Omaha has a four-day racing festival each summer at Horsemen's Park. Along with the College World Series, it is one of the Places To Be in Omaha in the summer, and the place is packed.

In the last race yesterday, a 1 3/8 mile marathon for $3500 claimers, eight of which had won this year, an 8 year old horse named Argentia Bay was running. In nine races since 2007 he had been last all the way around eight times. Once he passed two horses out of nine to get beat only 14 lengths. Median margin of defeat was 30+ lengths. Yesterday he went to post at 23-1. This was not smart money.

[Tape Reader]

This thread has a lot of truth to it.
On my recent visits to the track I actually started checking out people entering.
9 of 10 people 90%.Nothing in their hands no forms,no papers,sheets etc.
Unless they have them in their plastic beer coolers. :confused:
I was shocked.
I have the form and my figs printed out and homework done.
I think most people bet the toteboard and I mean odds not wps pools.
Or bet the program picks.
In reality horseracing being a parimutual sport.
I love to see this. ;)

PS;
If Saratoga wouldn't put the prerace inhouse commentary and picks on the big screens before each race.
My longshots would be longershots.
Cringe when I hear them say a horse I like at odds has a chance. :D

Hi KingChas,

Just got back from two days at the Spa. Walked in, as usual with nothing in my hand. Purchased the Pocket Program and started jotting odds off the board. I must have looked like a "tourist" as I was immediately approached by a tout. I thought of your above comment.

Can you imagine!!! This tout didn't even have "material" in his hand.

[46zilzal]

many years back there was lots of DUMB money at the Florida Winter meets but that has been diluted.

Also with all the money coming in on pulses from the five national betting hubs the accuracy of board reading is really a thing of the past.

[Stillriledup]

I think part of it is not necessarily that the money is dumb, its just that because the handle and pools are higher, there's more meat on the bone. Its more of a higher handle thing than a dumb money thing. Give me a win pool of a million dollars of incredibly smart people as opposed to a win pool of 30k of 'dumb money' all the time.

[kenwoodall2]

"If you can't beat the favorite (by 2 minutes to post), bet the favorite".

[WinterTriangle]

last race yesterday, a 1 3/8 mile marathon for $3500 claimers, eight of which had won this year, an 8 year old horse named Argentia Bay was running. In nine races since 2007 he had been last all the way around eight times. Once he passed two horses out of nine to get beat only 14 lengths. Median margin of defeat was 30+ lengths. Yesterday he went to post at 23-1. This was not smart money.

Bless his heart. Given how few racehorses in the US can even run that far, and him doing it at 8 years old......

.seems to me that just on principle, the race should not be valued at less than $5K. ;)

I've been known to make a sentimental wager here and there. :)

[WinterTriangle]

BTW, can so much money at tracks be 'dumb'? I see so many horses going off at even odds, or 2-5. Obviously, handicappers must be betting on them.....

[highnote]

BTW, can so much money at tracks be 'dumb'? I see so many horses going off at even odds, or 2-5. Obviously, handicappers must be betting on them.....


Bettors bet for many reasons. Some bettors may be bookmakers laying off their liabilities using the tote. Some bettors may be arbitraging their bets across the totes and exchanges -- in which case they may not care who wins as long as they churn a small profit. So in order to earn that small profit they may be betting large sums in the tote and laying large sums on an exchange. It may seem like a dumb bet to a person who is just observing one market, but to the person making the bet in two markets it may be a very smart bet.

[Java Gold@TFT]

The other thing to remember is that the 'tourist money' often gets dumped into the exacta and triple pools. Look at the pool sizes at Saratoga and you will see that the exacta pool has about 90% of that in the WPS pool. I have no doubt that people who are pure chartists can decern the overlays in the exacta pool and take extra money down from the 'tourist money'. I don't have the commitment to chart but I can find many overlays when I am looking at betting a horse in the 5-1, 10-1 range.

[Tape Reader]

many years back there was lots of DUMB money at the Florida Winter meets but that has been diluted.

Also with all the money coming in on pulses from the five national betting hubs the accuracy of board reading is really a thing of the past.

I disagree with this.

The new technologies of live feed and computer analysis, IMO, far outweigh any drawback of "pulse" money. This is particularly true for data analysis.

The art, no make that the analysis, of tote board reading is taken to a much higher level.