King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes

[Gorgeous George]

The English and Irish Derby winners, Workforce and Cape Blanco clash in a hottly contested renewal of the King George. Workforce's devasting win in the Derby on only his third career start is the best form available but Cape Blanco's dismal run in france was quickly dismissed when he won the Irish Derby in comfortable fashion. Racecard below and try and watch it if you can.

Form Horse Trainer Jockey Rating
116-060 Confront Sir Michael Stoute R Mullen 114
103-111 Harbinger Sir Michael Stoute O Peslier 120
320-042 Youmzain MR Channon R Hughes 121
1553-14 Dar Re Mi J H M Gosden William Buick 120
1111-33 Daryakana A de Royer-Dupre G Mosse
1-23245 At First Sight A P O'Brien 118
111-101 Cape Blanco A P O'Brien J Murtagh 115
1-21 Workforce Sir Michael Stoute R L Moore 128

[OTM Al]

Thre year olds against older for the first time. Could get some tasty prices on Harbinger and Dar Re Mi. Workforce I think is rated way too high. Should be a good one. Saturday right?

[horses4courses]

Betting over there at the moment has:

Workforce 1-1
Harbinger 5-2
Cape Blanco 6-1
(others at 12-1 and up)

We will see just how good Workforce is.....

[OTM Al]

Betting over there at the moment has:

Workforce 1-1
Harbinger 5-2
Cape Blanco 6-1
(others at 12-1 and up)

We will see just how good Workforce is.....

Odds on on a 3yo facing older for the first time. That is an automatic bet against. Didn't do it last year because Sea the Stars did look that good, but Workforce is no Sea the Stars. Made nice little scores against the likes of Sariska and New Approach the last couple years.

[kenwoodall2]

5 Horse trained by 2 trainers; Is 8 the final total of entries? I like AT FIRST SIGHT!

[OTM Al]

5 Horse trained by 2 trainers; Is 8 the final total of entries? I like AT FIRST SIGHT!

The shocking part is that it isn't O'Brien who has the most.

[Bullet Plane]

Well,

We will find out if Workforce is the real deal, or if the Derby was a fluke. He is facing serious elders for the first time like Youmsain and Harbinger- as well as Dar Re Mi.

Ryan Moore had the choice of Harbinger, who just won a strong Group race at Ascot, and Workforce. He chose Workforce. Workforce looked mighty running from near the back to win against a front runner who looked as if he had stole the race on the front end. The rest of the horses looked like they were standing still back there. While this rocket propelled superhorse zoomed by quick as lightning.

I think Workforce will prove the real deal in this race. Will I bet him? Heck no, no value. I pass races with solid favorites.

I can't blame anybody who might take a stab against him, though. There is just that one magnificent race, and he is facing older for the first time.

[OTM Al]

Just took a closer look at this and honestly if I was going to use a 3yo, I'd go with Cape Blanco here. These elders are beatable but should prove a challenge to the 3yos. Harbinger has earned a G1 start, but this is his first start in water this deep. The adage about G1 winners win G1 races is one I believe, especially over there, so I think he too will be overbet. Dar Re Mi is a tough mare and I think she needed her last after coming back from Dubai. She attended a strong pace and tired a couple furlongs out. I expect her to be stronger this time out. Youmzain should never be used on top, but he is ideal underneath here and must be used in that spot. I think some combination of Dar Re Mi, Youmzain, and Cape Blanco is the way to go here. Maybe something like Dar Re Mi and Cape Blanco over those two plus Youmzain.

[nijinski]

Just took a closer look at this and honestly if I was going to use a 3yo, I'd go with Cape Blanco here. These elders are beatable but should prove a challenge to the 3yos. Harbinger has earned a G1 start, but this is his first start in water this deep. The adage about G1 winners win G1 races is one I believe, especially over there, so I think he too will be overbet. Dar Re Mi is a tough mare and I think she needed her last after coming back from Dubai. She attended a strong pace and tired a couple furlongs out. I expect her to be stronger this time out. Youmzain should never be used on top, but he is ideal underneath here and must be used in that spot. I think some combination of Dar Re Mi, Youmzain, and Cape Blanco is the way to go here. Maybe something like Dar Re Mi and Cape Blanco over those two plus Youmzain.
I like your pick of Cape Blanco also , but i think I'll thrown in the Aga Khan's
Daryakana as well as giving Workforce a shot , they seem to like him over there.
Daryakana seems to have a good amount of stamina , i believe this filly has beaten Youmzain before , might be worth a look.
Editing this , she was third to Youmzain , still like her though.

[nijinski]

BTW i believe Murtaugh is serving suspension and probably won't be riding
CB.
If the ground stays firm , I may keep Daryakana on top.

[OTM Al]

This alters things a bit

http://www.drf.com/news/article/115028.html

With her out, this shifts the balance much more toward the 3yos

[RXB]

Odds on on a 3yo facing older for the first time. That is an automatic bet against. Didn't do it last year because Sea the Stars did look that good, but Workforce is no Sea the Stars. Made nice little scores against the likes of Sariska and New Approach the last couple years.

3YO's defeating older is no big deal over there. Euro horse owners mastered the art of early retirement before North Americans did, plus the Euro scale of weights is very favourable to the 3YO's.

Out of 59 runnings of the KG/QE, 3YO's have won 27 times.

[OTM Al]

3YO's defeating older is no big deal over there. Euro horse owners mastered the art of early retirement before North Americans did, plus the Euro scale of weights is very favourable to the 3YO's.

Out of 59 runnings of the KG/QE, 3YO's have won 27 times.

I know they do well, but the key to my statement is the odds on part. The hot 3yos often get way overbet and can be quite vulnerable. It all depends on what they are racing against too. With the loss of Dar Re Mi, the older horses in this race just got a lot weaker. I have little faith in Harbinger and Youmzain, great earner that he is, doesn't win.

At this point I would bet a 3yo solidly on top, Cape Blanco, if he goes anywhere near the 6-1 that was quoted.

[Spalding No!]

A few questions:

What excuse was given by the Workforce supporters for his open-length defeat by Cape Blanco earlier this year? That's quite a disparity in price for two runners that were separated by 3 lengths in reverse order with respect to the odds.

Why did Cape Blanco opt for the French Derby instead of the Epsom Derby?

Was that Epsom Derby really as impressive as it seemed when considering the subsequent performance of all the also-rans? The run-off pacesetter was 100-1 that day and held on for second. He has since flopped in a couple of starts.

[OTM Al]

A few questions:

What excuse was given by the Workforce supporters for his open-length defeat by Cape Blanco earlier this year? That's quite a disparity in price for two runners that were separated by 3 lengths in reverse order with respect to the odds.

Why did Cape Blanco opt for the French Derby instead of the Epsom Derby?

Was that Epsom Derby really as impressive as it seemed when considering the subsequent performance of all the also-rans? The run-off pacesetter was 100-1 that day and held on for second. He has since flopped in a couple of starts.

I think the Derby this year may be a negative key. I can answer your second question easily though. He ran there because the trainer thought he could take down both the English and French. He was half right. Jan Vermeer fell flat

[Bullet Plane]

A few questions:

What excuse was given by the Workforce supporters for his open-length defeat by Cape Blanco earlier this year? That's quite a disparity in price for two runners that were separated by 3 lengths in reverse order with respect to the odds.

Why did Cape Blanco opt for the French Derby instead of the Epsom Derby?

Was that Epsom Derby really as impressive as it seemed when considering the subsequent performance of all the also-rans? The run-off pacesetter was 100-1 that day and held on for second. He has since flopped in a couple of starts.

1) Workforce pulled the bit through his mouth at York in the Cape Blanco defeat.
2) Epsom Derby has proved a strong race. The first three places of the Irish Derby came out of it.
3) At First Sight had what appeared to be an "won race" as he held a huge pace advantage- You see this all the time in US racing where a 50-1 shot gets a lone early advantage in a race and never wins again. Or, a stone closer gets a perfect setup at 50-1 and never wins again.

Workforce will likely blow them away today. He received a huge speed figure for the effort as well- I'm not just saying he ran a fast time- No, he ran a huge speed figure- adjusted for any surface speed.

[cj]

2) Epsom Derby has proved a strong race. The first three places of the Irish Derby came out of it.


Obviously this isn't true

[Bullet Plane]

Sorry,

Blanco, of course was Prix Du Jockey Cup. However, like I said, 2nd , 3rd and fifth finishers of the Irish Derby were from the Epsom Derby.

[OTM Al]

Wow. Ok This is a serious horse and Workforce is the fraud I thought he was. Glad I bought a saver on Harbinger over Cape Blanco.

[alytim]

Wow. Ok This is a serious horse and Workforce is the fraud I thought he was. Glad I bought a saver on Harbinger over Cape Blanco.

Wow squared! Hope to see Harbinger in Louisville.

[Bullet Plane]

Harginger by 11- the rest nowhere. Broke the track record. Ryan Moore got on the wrong horse.

I wouldn't give up on Workforce yet. He has been kind of quirky in the past. There might be some explanation for this performance.

[cj]

Harginger by 11- the rest nowhere. Broke the track record. Ryan Moore got on the wrong horse.

I wouldn't give up on Workforce yet. He has been kind of quirky in the past. There might be some explanation for this performance.

I was not fooled by Workforce. I know I posted shortly after the Derby it was being big time over rated. Of course he still has time to prove me wrong.

[OTM Al]

Wow squared! Hope to see Harbinger in Louisville.

Seriously doubt it. He will be on a collision course with the Arc now, which is of course well more esteemed than the BC, and probably should be.

[nearco]

Seriously doubt it. He will be on a collision course with the Arc now, which is of course well more esteemed than the BC, and probably should be.

Such short memories we have.......... Conduit.

[OTM Al]

Such short memories we have.......... Conduit.

Didn't win the Arc though did he? Arc winners who go on to the BC have done poorly and generally considered over the top. Not saying this guy is going to win it, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear all efforts are being made to get there.

[nearco]

Didn't win the Arc though did he? Arc winners who go on to the BC have done poorly and generally considered over the top. Not saying this guy is going to win it, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear all efforts are being made to get there.

Conduit's main target last fall was the Arc.
So we have...
2009 - Conduit, trained by Sir Michael Stoute, wins the King George in July, then races in the Arc, then BC Turf, and even after winning the the BC Turf he still went on to the Japan Cup
2010 - Harbinger, trained by Sir Michael Stoute, wins the King George in July, then..... no reason to believe he won't follow a similar route. Even if he wins the Arc, there's every likelihood he'll be at Churchill Downs, just like Conduit's effort in running down Presious Passion at Santa Anita didn't stop them shipping to Japan.

I really don't see how you can say he's running in the Arc will preclude a trip to Louisville. Will he win both? History would suggest that he'd have to be a exceptional horse to do so, but that's not what alytim asked.

[OTM Al]

I'm saying it because this horse just jumped to the head of the line for classic distance runners. I can't imagine he's going to sit out until the Arc like Conduit was. Conduit was not fully wound up for the Arc last year because of this and thus still had plenty in the tank. This race was Conduit's second of the year, this is Harbinger's fourth. Conduit was also second string. Harbinger is not. He will be trained to peak for the Arc, not for the BC and therefore I find it doubtful you will see him there. However others like Cape Blanco and Workforce (if he is not injured) may be much more likely.

[nearco]

?? :confused: :confused:
The King George was Conduit's 3rd race of the year this time last year, he ran in the Brigadier Gerard Stakes and the Eclipse prior.
And he was 2nd string in the Stoute yard??? to who? Spanish Moon? Tartan Bearer?? Ask?
Harbinger was most definitely 2nd string at Freemason Lodge coming into this race. He has obviously usurped Workforce after today. Who was ahead of Conduit at coming out of last year's King George?

[nearco]

Timeform have given Harbinger a provisional 142 rating for his performance yesterday :eek: :eek:
That is an insane number... absolutely insane.
http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=racing/10/07/25/manual_121337.html

Here's the replay..
mo7pEsp2WKc

[Gorgeous George]

Harbinger is entered in the Juddmonte International on August 17th and his participation is dependant on ground conditions. Sir Michael Stoute wants another race in him before the Arc. The Juddmonte is over 10f and i doubt if he has the speed to win this. He will be heavily over played and I will be taking him on with Twice Over. Hopefully this defeat will push his price out for the Arc and i will get good odds because i believe he has an excellent chance of winning it.



I doubt Workforce will be entered in the Arc as I believe he won a false run Derby and the form of the Derby has went from bad to worse. Sir Michael Stoute will not want to further tarnish a Derby winners profile for stud reasons. The Dante form was franked by Cape Blanco finishing 3 lengths ahead of Workforce. Aiden O’Brien made a huge mistake sending Cape Blanco to France.

[OTM Al]

So much for that. Hope that he can be saved

http://www.attheraces.com/article.aspx?hlid=510557&raceid=&title=Harbinger+suffers+fracture+on+gallops&lid=&ref=PA+Racing+Feed&nav=&sub=&day=Sat

[FenceBored]

So much for that. Hope that he can be saved

http://www.attheraces.com/article.aspx?hlid=510557&raceid=&title=Harbinger+suffers+fracture+on+gallops&lid=&ref=PA+Racing+Feed&nav=&sub=&day=Sat

Truly a shame.

[FenceBored]

It's official.

Harbinger (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/thoroughbred/harbinger-gb/2006?source=BHonline), who became world’s highest rated runner after a stunning triumph in the July 24 King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes (Eng-I), has been retired from racing. The 4-year-old colt fractured a leg Aug. 7 and underwent surgery at Rossdales Equine Hospital.
-- http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/58311/king-george-winner-harbinger-retired (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/58311/king-george-winner-harbinger-retired)