Icebox to Haskell

[point given]

Lets see now, Super Saver, Lookin at lucky, Icebox.... looks like we've got a nice race comin' down the pike.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/114934.html

Baffert confirms LAL

http://www.nj.com/horse-racing/index.ssf/2010/07/preakness_winner_lookin_at_lucky_will_run_in_haske ll_at_monmouth_park.html

[Hardspun]

I like LAL if he isn't in the #1 hole. I'm not a fan of the #1 hole.

[Stevie Belmont]

This one is looking good...

[affirmedny]

The obvious move seems to be Fly Down to the Haskell and Icebox for the Jim Dandy but Nick is not much of a handicapper. I can't fathom Icebox winning at Monmouth with the speed favoring track and the tight turns. Maybe it's just a workout for the Travers?

[sonnyp]

what about his flipping his pallet in the belmont ? i haven't read where he underwent any surgical proceedures (hooking,trimming etc.) since then.

i guess, maybe, they are just hoping he won't do it again ? or maybe he didn't really do it in the belmont ?

[alhattab]

The obvious move seems to be Fly Down to the Haskell and Icebox for the Jim Dandy but Nick is not much of a handicapper. I can't fathom Icebox winning at Monmouth with the speed favoring track and the tight turns. Maybe it's just a workout for the Travers?

Well, according to Zito, who I imagine sees both horses every day, Ice Box will prefer the turns at Monmouth more than Fly Down will. The race records seem to back that up- Ice Box ran probably his best race at CD while Fly Down I believe has two wins over a distance- both over tracks of 1 1/8 or more in circumference. As far as the Mth profile, it has been fair most of the meet and even days favoring speed haven't been demonstrably so.

[point given]

The obvious move seems to be Fly Down to the Haskell and Icebox for the Jim Dandy but Nick is not much of a handicapper. I can't fathom Icebox winning at Monmouth with the speed favoring track and the tight turns. Maybe it's just a workout for the Travers?

Guess you can teach Nick a thing or two about handicapping , eh :rolleyes: FYI, they put down a new surface and the track is'nt what it used to be. AND then there is the matter of the $1.25 mil purse.

[affirmedny]

Well, according to Zito, who I imagine sees both horses every day, Ice Box will prefer the turns at Monmouth more than Fly Down will. The race records seem to back that up- Ice Box ran probably his best race at CD while Fly Down I believe has two wins over a distance- both over tracks of 1 1/8 or more in circumference. As far as the Mth profile, it has been fair most of the meet and even days favoring speed haven't been demonstrably so.
Do You think he'll get the same kind of pace in the Haskell as in the derby? I don't. Track was also a sea of mud that day. CD stretch is 25 percent longer than MP. He can look at them all he wants it won't make Icebox run any better at MP. The track might be playing fair, but horses do not come from the clouds like Icebox does and win there too often. I am a fan of Icebox, I had him in the Florida Derby. I just would have run the horse that runs closer to the pace in the Haskell, that's all.

[alhattab]

Do You think he'll get the same kind of pace in the Haskell as in the derby? I don't. Track was also a sea of mud that day. CD stretch is 25 percent longer than MP. He can look at them all he wants it won't make Icebox run any better at MP. The track might be playing fair, but horses do not come from the clouds like Icebox does and win there too often. I am a fan of Icebox, I had him in the Florida Derby. I just would have run the horse that runs closer to the pace in the Haskell, that's all.

I don't either. But do you not think the physical attributes of a horse contribute to its performance over difference types of tracks? I do, and I guess Ice Box is more handy than Fly Down and that is why Zito sent Ice Box to the Haskell. I haven't looked at any form so don't know for sure but my guess is that the pace scenario in the Jim Dandy will be similar to that of the Haskell so that aspect was neutral in the decision-making.

[affirmedny]

Guess you can teach Nick a thing or two about handicapping , eh :rolleyes: FYI, they put down a new surface and the track is'nt what it used to be. AND then there is the matter of the $1.25 mil purse.

I guess I could teach Nick and YOU a thing or two about handicapping. Neither horse hit the board. Same to the guy who said Nick "sees them everyday". I guess knowing where to run them is a little more important than how they look. God, I love parimutuel wagering.

[alhattab]

I guess I could teach Nick and YOU a thing or two about handicapping. Neither horse hit the board. Same to the guy who said Nick "sees them everyday". I guess knowing where to run them is a little more important than how they look. God, I love parimutuel wagering.

Hi. I am "the guy who said 'Nick sees them everyday'". Go ahead give LaPenta et.al. a call. I'm sure they read this board and are eagerly awaiting your call so you can load Zito's horses into your van and bring them to wherever you happen to be stabled. Good luck to you and more importantly good luck to the horses

[affirmedny]

Hi. I am "the guy who said 'Nick sees them everyday'". Go ahead give LaPenta et.al. a call. I'm sure they read this board and are eagerly awaiting your call so you can load Zito's horses into your van and bring them to wherever you happen to be stabled. Good luck to you and more importantly good luck to the horses

Better he calls me than you, evidently. Thanks for being so gracious about being wrong and poking fun at my handicapping that turned out to be right.

[alhattab]

Better he calls me than you, evidently. Thanks for being so gracious about being wrong and poking fun at my handicapping that turned out to be right.

Your handicapping was right? I don't recall you saying who you used, or me saying who I used. As such, how do you know I was wrong? Enjoy your time around the shedrow Mr. Jones I'm sure you have earned it.

[affirmedny]

Your handicapping was right? I don't recall you saying who you used, or me saying who I used. As such, how do you know I was wrong? Enjoy your time around the shedrow Mr. Jones I'm sure you have earned it.

You didn't say Zito was right for sending Ice Box to Monmouth (and running FD at Toga) despite my opinion to the contrary and that "their race records seem to back that up"? Is that not handicapping? Is there another guy posting under the "Al Hattab" handle? Grow a pair and admit you were wrong.

[WinterTriangle]

Thanks for being so gracious about being wrong and poking fun at my handicapping that turned out to be right.

You handicapped these two races? Where are your picks? ;)

The obvious move seems to be Fly Down to the Haskell and Icebox for the Jim Dandy

You know the trainer's intentions, why he ran his horses in these races, and to what purpose and how that fits in with his future plans for them, and his client's wishes for them?

Nick is not much of a handicapper.

No, he's a Hall of Fame trainer w/ over $89 million in earnings, who describes himself as the "luckiest FAN alive", not a handicapper.

I do wish you (and all of us) good luck as handicappers, in racing him to the goal of $100 million, though. Maybe you can train a few TBs and win some TC races while yer cappin'.

Just messin' with ya but don't be bustin on Zito, I have a ton of respect for him, started as a hotwalker at age 15, went out on own at age 24 with only 2 horses, made it into Hall of Fame, and has done a ton of great things for thoroughbred retirement. What he forgot about racing many handicappers won't ever learn. ;)


Enjoy your time around the shedrow Mr. Jones I'm sure you have earned it.

What the hey is that supposed to mean? Are you some kinda troll? (don't answer that, it's already obvious).

I'll leave you 2 to your trolling.

[affirmedny]

You know the trainer's intentions, why he ran his horses in these races, and to what purpose and how that fits in with his future plans for them, and his client's wishes for them?



I was questioning why he would run Ice Box on a speed favoring mile track when it's fairly obvious the horse had little chance to win there. As it turns out he even ran a rabbit and it wasn't enough to get Ice Box in the money. Never said he was a bad trainer or that I knew more about training horses than him. Just called him out on what I thought was a dumb move (and well before the race , not redboarding) and turned out to be right. He does do stuff like this quite often (maybe he would have made his 100 million already if he didn't). He's a very likable guy and seems to get a pass from the press and fans on this kind of stuff. He's run many horses in the triple crown races that are hopelessly overmatched, but every 5 or 10 years or so he wins one. Not my kind of trainer, but that doesn't mean he's a bad one.

[WinterTriangle]

I was questioning why he would run Ice Box on a speed favoring mile track.

I guess you didn't see him run at Gulfstream. You know, when he won the FLA Derby. ;)


As it turns out he even ran a rabbit

I bet you thought Miner's Reserve was a rabbit for Fly Down, and that Da'Tara was just a rabbit, too?

Ice Box had flipped his pallette. A lot of people weren't betting him in this, the others weren't betting him because of the distance, he needs longer.

And, maybe lapenta wanted him to run in the Haskell.

seems to get a pass from the press and fans on this kind of stuff.

Fine if you don't favor Zito, that's taste. But I doubt he needs a *pass* from anyone given his reputation and time in the sport. I'm quite sure he's not looking for one.

If you've ever noticed, he rarely whines and complains and makes tons of talky-talk excuses after he loses a race. He'll say something simple like: Ice Box left his race on the track. That's it. It's one of the reasons people do like him. :)

BTW, did you read about Ice Box's workout before the race at Sara? OK training track was mud mud mud and he put Ice Box out there anyway (lots of others cancelled). He said he who hesitates is lost. This isn't a guy who avoids risks (if that's what you mean by he always does stuff like this). He doesn't strike me as very egotistical, like his world comes to an end if he doesn't win. usually puts his nose back to the grindstone and goes back to work.

[affirmedny]

I guess you didn't see him run at Gulfstream. You know, when he won the FLA Derby. ;)
.

I believe I did see him, uh, as a matter of fact that race sticks in my mind for some reason:

03/20/2010 Bet Race 11 GULFSTREAM $1.00 Exacta Box 8/ 1-11 - $20.00 $254.80

03/20/2010 Bet Race 11 GULFSTREAM $0.10 Superfecta 4,8,11/ 4,8,11/ 7/ 1-6,8-11 - $4.80 $1522.81

He was number 8 as I recall. As I said I'm a fan of the horse. I just didn't think the Haskell was the right spot.

Do you seriously think Da' Tara was a good horse?