Meadowlands to be sold?

[bigeastbeast]

Nj.com is reporting that tomorrow Gov.Christie will recommend that the Meadowlands be sold and a state subsidy to the track be eliminated.This may mark the end of the 34 year old track.

[Hanover1]

No surprise here, given current affairs. However, if you polled folks a scant few years back where the premiere harness meet was in USA, the overwhelming choice would have been the Big M....I always though that place would run forever......they went all out during the 80s to attract and keep the best barns, and the pots were the best too......

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

An amazing time of transformation we are in. The Meadowlands was the capital of the harness sport .I figure it is inevitable for both harness and thoroughbred racing to downsize drastically in order to survive and thrive under todays economic conditions.


I feel very sad for the thousands of loyal, hardworking men and women employed in the racing industry that really have no where else to go. Sad. but like the big business that it is this is the way it is done.

[Hanover1]

I read the report on NJ.com, and they also commented that Monmouth is projected to lose 10m this year, and may also be on the block, along with disbanding the NJSEA, making them little more than landlords of the acreage, whatever it turns into........bad, bad, bad......

[InsideThePylons-MW]

just horrible

[Robert Goren]

Monouth Park is to be lease or sold. Next question.... Who would want it?

[Hanover1]

Saving grace is IF SBOA can step up.......it was mentioned as an option. Don't think they have the ready cash to run/finance the whole deal??

[Trotman]

It was mentioned a few years ago that WEG was interested and at the time they did their due diligence but backed away, the writing on the wall should have been noticed then.

[Zman179]

I can see Monmouth being sold to another company and staying as a racetrack. Meadowlands? Maybe.

But I can tell you this: If the Meadowlands closes, harness racing is dead in the US. Period. Every other track in this country holds harness races in front of sparse gatherings (you can't call them crowds any more). The bettors who wager $2 million at the Meadowlands are either going to start betting on the flats or will be spread out amongst the remaining trotter tracks, thus guaranteeing continued mediocrity. Think about it, if Med closes, the top circuit in harness racing will be in Canada (Woodbine/Mohawk).

There are only two places which can attract a big crowd for the trotters in the US: The Meadowlands and the Delaware County Fair. Take one away and that's all she wrote.

[Hanover1]

Not to mention how the sport would replace the major stakes for horses of all ages....Hambo in Canada???? There goes the sport, AND its history. Just where would anyone recommend they race the Hambo, among others? Mistletoe, Annabelle, Houghton, Nat Ray, Med Pace (gone), among others????? Out west aint no good...they can't pay for last years card yet............Some stakes may flat disappear?? :confused:

[Hanover1]

To bad the Swedes don't step up here...they made a fair share of cash in the day at M........

[njcurveball]

Christie is selling the Meadowlands for a $1. I am prepared to double that offer! ;)

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/07/nj_gambling_atlantic_city_takeover_meadowlands_rac etrack_shut.html

The Meadowlands Racetrack could be sold for a token $1, or turned into an off-track wagering facility without live horse racing.

[Trotman]

Hanover 1 don't get too carried away. First other US tracks would probably get to cherry pick which races they wanted before moving north to Canada. But if the other tracks can't make a solid financial plan to keep the major races then I have no problem with a group that could for the wellfare of the sport.

[DeanT]

For all those people who said long ago slots would kill harness racing, it appears they might have been right.

The day Chester, Pocono and Yonkers got those damn machines and stole all those entries from the M, it was the beginning of the end. As Zman says above, 95% of the serious harness players are not looking to Chester or Pocono for their action, but to the flats.

[Hanover1]

Hanover 1 don't get too carried away. First other US tracks would probably get to cherry pick which races they wanted before moving north to Canada. But if the other tracks can't make a solid financial plan to keep the major races then I have no problem with a group that could for the wellfare of the sport.

What other mile track is a viable option in your estimation? Thought so......

[InsideThePylons-MW]

What other mile track is a viable option in your estimation? Thought so......

Springfield
Indianapolis
Del Mar

[wilderness]

"Springfield
Indianapolis"

These two are out and anything else in that state.

The State of Illinois has still NOT paid the complete purse (at least their end of approximately 50k) for the 2009 World Trotting Derby.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

"Springfield
Indianapolis"

These two are out and anything else in that state.

The State of Illinois has still NOT paid the complete purse (at least their end of approximately 50k) for the 2009 World Trotting Derby.

I guess I should have put a :D to alert the humorless that this was a joke. I thought racing the Hambo on polycrap would have made it obvious.

[markgoldie]

For all those people who said long ago slots would kill harness racing, it appears they might have been right.

The day Chester, Pocono and Yonkers got those damn machines and stole all those entries from the M, it was the beginning of the end. As Zman says above, 95% of the serious harness players are not looking to Chester or Pocono for their action, but to the flats.

Not sure I quite get the logic of this. Slots are killing harness racing? Where? At Pocono? The Meadows? Chester? (Would seem slots created Chester) Dover? Harrington? How about Indiana- Hoosier and Indiana Downs? New York- Yonkers, Monticello, Buffalo, Vernon, Tioga? (Would seem slots created Tioga.)

Then there's the argument that the loss of some better quality horses has caused a corresponding drop in handle at the Big M. Sounds nice but I see scant evidence that this is true. The track still features the premier training and driving colony in the sport. And for the most part, the fields have been relatively full.

The argument that bettors prefer mile-track racing to small-track racing is also without evidence. In Chicago where they race both mile and half-mile tracks on the same circuit concurrently, the handles are comparable. And Hoosier and Indiana Downs are not garnering unusually high handles due to their track size. Nor does Lexington when it races its parimutuel meeting.

The bottom line is that slots have currently saved harness racing, not destroyed it. Picture the sport now without slots. How can we do that? Well, look at Illinois racing which doesn't have slot support. Here we have a large metro area with a very strong harness racing tradition. And what do we see? The majority of purses are $1800- $3000. Assume a purse structure like this or more often, worse at the all the above mentioned slot-supported tracks. Or better yet, envision Maryland harness racing.

And speaking of subsidies, the Big M has been collecting casino money lo these many years. So it too has been the beneficiary of the gaming industry.

If the Big M closes, it will be a shame. But it will not be the end of the sport as we know it. Unfortunately, the long-term prospects for all of horse racing are bleak and eventually non-sustainable. The reasons are many, but essentially, horse racing is a modern-day failed business model without any long-term reversal process possible. But let's at least recognize slots for what they have meant to the sport- a stop-gap to doom.

[DeanT]

Not sure I quite get the logic of this. Slots are killing harness racing? Where? At Pocono? The Meadows? Chester? (Would seem slots created Chester) Dover? Harrington? How about Indiana- Hoosier and Indiana Downs? New York- Yonkers, Monticello, Buffalo, Vernon, Tioga? (Would seem slots created Tioga.)

Then there's the argument that the loss of some better quality horses has caused a corresponding drop in handle at the Big M. Sounds nice but I see scant evidence that this is true. The track still features the premier training and driving colony in the sport. And for the most part, the fields have been relatively full.


Mark,

With due respect, this could not be more off.

The Meadowlands is the flagship track of the sport. It is the only track which had over $3M handles on a regular basis. In the late 1990's and early 2000's it handled close to double that on Saturday nights, with huge fields and the best horses in the sport. When slots came in those other tracks did well ..... with purses, not with handles. Large bettors began to leave the M and handles plummeted. In fact, the Meadowlands had to go to cut days a week to fill cards, and even after that we saw 8 race cards on some Wednesday's. In addition, the drivers and the trainers chased the money - Tetrick, Gingras and others would race at Chester while the Meadowlands was racing on some Wed and Thursday nights.

What we have happening, and has been happening with slots is a negative handle effect, whereby after some time politicians see that they are subsidizing a sport that is raced in front of empty grandstands. The largest handle tracks go (like the M is) and the smaller tracks are still there, but with no handle. How long will they get a subsidy with no handle? Not long, as we see in places like Iowa which has all but killed harness racing and in Indiana which has been in the red for some time because of high license fees.

What we have left is Pocono with vicious takeout - have you checked the handles there lately? Yonkers, which no serious player gets excited about. Chester, with 30%+ takes, and handles that Windsor raceway used to do. And of course, that handle powerhouse the Meadows, which had to discontinue a whopping $6000 guaranteed pool. We have propped up tracks with slots that no one watches and no one plays, yet the track that everyone watches and everyone plays closes..... that is what slots have done.

The Meadowlands also has two of the highest handle days in the sport. The Hambo card can do ten million, and just last year the signal was exported to Sweden where that country did $2M on Hambo day. Are people from around the world going to bet $10M into a Hambo card run at Pocono or the Meadows, or some other slots track? Not on your life - some slots tracks like Chester only consider racing a necessary evil, as the keynote to the Standardbred Wagering conference in 08 plain-speakingly told us.

So yes, slots have hurt this sport. The horsepeople got rich for awhile, the blacksmiths did ok, the feed men are making some coin. But the brand of harness racing? Handles have been crushed because slots tracks race in front of no one and they have succeeded in closing the flagship track of our sport.

[Pacingguy]

Slots have not killed the Meadowlands. Harness racing has killed of the Meadowlands. Even if Chester and Pocono weren't around, the betting is down, the tracks don't get enough money from off-track wagering.

Harness racing (all horse racing) has killed the Meadowlands because instead of making the changes they needed to make over the past thirty years, racing sat on their hands. Tracks would not make changes. Horsemen refused to make changes which would improve the game. Breeders liked things the way they were. Everyone worried about themselves.

That being said, the slots did not help. The welfare money received allowed racing to sit on their butt and do nothing.

Who's to blame for the Meadowlands closing? Not Christie. We as an industry just need to look in the mirror and see who is really responsible.

One good thing about the Meadowlands closing. It may force the industry to make the changes it has refused to make. Those who still don't want to change will be heading for the doors and those willing to change will survive.

I don't think it is the end of harness racing. Tough decisions need to be made but it will still be around.

[Zman179]

What we have happening, and has been happening with slots is a negative handle effect, whereby after some time politicians see that they are subsidizing a sport that is raced in front of empty grandstands. The largest handle tracks go (like the M is) and the smaller tracks are still there, but with no handle. How long will they get a subsidy with no handle? Not long, as we see in places like Iowa which has all but killed harness racing and in Indiana which has been in the red for some time because of high license fees.

What we have left is Pocono with vicious takeout - have you checked the handles there lately? Yonkers, which no serious player gets excited about. Chester, with 30%+ takes, and handles that Windsor raceway used to do. And of course, that handle powerhouse the Meadows, which had to discontinue a whopping $6000 guaranteed pool. We have propped up tracks with slots that no one watches and no one plays, yet the track that everyone watches and everyone plays closes..... that is what slots have done.

The Meadowlands also has two of the highest handle days in the sport. The Hambo card can do ten million, and just last year the signal was exported to Sweden where that country did $2M on Hambo day. Are people from around the world going to bet $10M into a Hambo card run at Pocono or the Meadows, or some other slots track? Not on your life - some slots tracks like Chester only consider racing a necessary evil, as the keynote to the Standardbred Wagering conference in 08 plain-speakingly told us.

I could not have explained it any better.

And as far as the tracks that Mark mentioned (Pocono, The Meadows, Chester, Dover, Harrington, Hoosier, Indiana, Yonkers, Monticello, Buffalo, Vernon, Tioga), here's one bit of trivia: Which one of these tracks has the highest average attendance for racing?

Vernon Downs, the one track on this list that handles the least.

I've been to Chester a few times, and I've seen fewer than 150 people watching the races there on a weekday. The horsemen's greed is going to wind up being their end when these states and racinos start cutting back and eliminating racing in favor of keeping the profits for themselves. Only a matter of time.

[Hanover1]

I guess I should have put a :D to alert the humorless that this was a joke. I thought racing the Hambo on polycrap would have made it obvious.

Still no answer to a valid question...where are the big stakes going to go? Lex is out for obvious reasons.....

[markgoldie]

Mark,

With due respect, this could not be more off.

The Meadowlands is the flagship track of the sport. It is the only track which had over $3M handles on a regular basis. In the late 1990's and early 2000's it handled close to double that on Saturday nights, with huge fields and the best horses in the sport. When slots came in those other tracks did well ..... with purses, not with handles. Large bettors began to leave the M and handles plummeted. In fact, the Meadowlands had to go to cut days a week to fill cards, and even after that we saw 8 race cards on some Wednesday's. In addition, the drivers and the trainers chased the money - Tetrick, Gingras and others would race at Chester while the Meadowlands was racing on some Wed and Thursday nights.

What we have happening, and has been happening with slots is a negative handle effect, whereby after some time politicians see that they are subsidizing a sport that is raced in front of empty grandstands. The largest handle tracks go (like the M is) and the smaller tracks are still there, but with no handle. How long will they get a subsidy with no handle? Not long, as we see in places like Iowa which has all but killed harness racing and in Indiana which has been in the red for some time because of high license fees.

What we have left is Pocono with vicious takeout - have you checked the handles there lately? Yonkers, which no serious player gets excited about. Chester, with 30%+ takes, and handles that Windsor raceway used to do. And of course, that handle powerhouse the Meadows, which had to discontinue a whopping $6000 guaranteed pool. We have propped up tracks with slots that no one watches and no one plays, yet the track that everyone watches and everyone plays closes..... that is what slots have done.

The Meadowlands also has two of the highest handle days in the sport. The Hambo card can do ten million, and just last year the signal was exported to Sweden where that country did $2M on Hambo day. Are people from around the world going to bet $10M into a Hambo card run at Pocono or the Meadows, or some other slots track? Not on your life - some slots tracks like Chester only consider racing a necessary evil, as the keynote to the Standardbred Wagering conference in 08 plain-speakingly told us.

So yes, slots have hurt this sport. The horsepeople got rich for awhile, the blacksmiths did ok, the feed men are making some coin. But the brand of harness racing? Handles have been crushed because slots tracks race in front of no one and they have succeeded in closing the flagship track of our sport.
With respect, I still don't see the logic.

If you do not believe that general interest in wagering on harness horses has diminished, then where has the handle gone? Some to each of the other tracks other than The Meadowlands? If that were true, then slots have only re-allocated the wagering dollars.

The only counter-argument might possibly be that harness-racing bettors are abandoning the sport en masse because they detect some marginal deterioration of the racing quality at The Meadowlands. But are died-in-the-wool gamblers really reacting by quitting the game altogether? With respect, I don't believe this argument makes sense at all.

So The Meadowlands used to have larger handles. Good for them. But how exactly was this propping up the sport in gereral? Answer: It wasn't. Compare this to the virtual survival issues which slot money has provided for so many tracks. If you removed slot money, a half-dozen tracks would close in the short term with many more following thereafter. The handle at The Meadowlands would increase and it might be a viable venue again. But so what? Would this mean the sport was more healthy? Of course not.

Seems to me you are in love with the place and that's fine. But the handles at The Big M are irrelevant to the overall sport. All of horse racing is facing lowered handles. This is a problem of demographics and other simpler, more easily understood avenues for gambling which are expanding exponentially. The Meadowlands is not, was not, nor will ever be the salvation for this inescapable trend.

[DeanT]

With respect, I still don't see the logic.

If you do not believe that general interest in wagering on harness horses has diminished, then where has the handle gone? Some to each of the other tracks other than The Meadowlands? If that were true, then slots have only re-allocated the wagering dollars.

The only counter-argument might possibly be that harness-racing bettors are abandoning the sport en masse because they detect some marginal deterioration of the racing quality at The Meadowlands. But are died-in-the-wool gamblers really reacting by quitting the game altogether? With respect, I don't believe this argument makes sense at all.

So The Meadowlands used to have larger handles. Good for them. But how exactly was this propping up the sport in gereral? Answer: It wasn't. Compare this to the virtual survival issues which slot money has provided for so many tracks. If you removed slot money, a half-dozen tracks would close in the short term with many more following thereafter. The handle at The Meadowlands would increase and it might be a viable venue again. But so what? Would this mean the sport was more healthy? Of course not.

Seems to me you are in love with the place and that's fine. But the handles at The Big M are irrelevant to the overall sport. All of horse racing is facing lowered handles. This is a problem of demographics and other simpler, more easily understood avenues for gambling which are expanding exponentially. The Meadowlands is not, was not, nor will ever be the salvation for this inescapable trend.

The M handles of $4M on weekends will not be replaced. It is the only venue that is playable for people who bet more than $100 a race, and casual watchers list it as their #1 track, as well. Harness racing handles will be cut close to in half as we lose these people. I can not make it any simpler to understand.

[Hanover1]

In reality, this situation was on the horizon for awhile now. I recall Cambell commenting publicly on the possible demise. Everyone knew funding was over this year, for at least a year or two. Can't imagine a scenario that would work to save it short of slots, and that is the very reason its gonna be over here real soon......

[Pacingguy]

Let's be honest, handles were dropping at the Meadowlands before slots came to Pennsylvania and New York; slots may have helped speed up the decline.

What really has brought us to this point? Thirty years of not doing one iota to modify the product in any way to make it attractable to the changing market place and public sensibilties coupled with a near financial collapse, and a bankrupt state. In other words, a perfect storm has hit.

[botster]

No more racing action at the swamp after this year.It was innevitable.

This industry has just refused time, and time, again here in North America to make the desperate needed changes to make the product reach a level of fairness for new and past fans (in the stands and actively licensed within the sport) to once again get excited about the game.

We have all seen the steep decline right before our eyes, so the demise of harness racing here in North America will happen.Maybe it won't happen for another twenty years, but it will happen.It will be a mad dash for horsemen to do all they can get away with, to get that "gravytrain" slot purse money, before "It's all she wrote"!!

[markgoldie]

It shouldn't go without mentioning here that a huge part of the problem with the Big M has been it's state-run status. In part, this is simply one more example of the inefficiencies of government-owned business. One would have thought that the demise of the old Soviet Union would have taught us all something, but apparently not in all cases.

And so, for example, the guy changing light bulbs in the Meadowlands backstretch is making about $80 an hour when you add up salary and all benefits. Same guy at a privately run operation? Maybe $20 if he's lucky.

Put a private owner to run the Big M? Good luck. In the union-run mob capital of the world, the cement-shoe crowd would rather see it returned to swamp land than to operate profitably without their cut of the action.

But blame it all on slots. Much easier that way.

[Trotman]

Markgoldie couldn't have said it any better, as Dean said the flagship of harness racing yet was so mismanaged as MG pointed out, it's done.

[RaceTrackDaddy]

For all those people who said long ago slots would kill harness racing, it appears they might have been right.

The day Chester, Pocono and Yonkers got those damn machines and stole all those entries from the M, it was the beginning of the end. As Zman says above, 95% of the serious harness players are not looking to Chester or Pocono for their action, but to the flats.

You can not blame the slots for that, you should put the blame where it should be, those Southern Jersey casino owners who have lined Christie's pocket full of election contributions. This is simply a pay back. Gov Christie eliminated the funding of the casino's to the Big M which in effect made the Mecca of Harness racing a losing venture. If anything, the protectionist attitude of the Governor's office in shielding the casinos from competition from tracks as they are prevented from having the slots themselves.

This action is nothing more than letting the racing whither on the vine. Forget all those years that the state usurped both the tax revenue and prestige of turning a toxic waste dump and swamp into a recreational attraction. Bye Bye Big M.

Will the Hambo revert back to Duquoin? Will the Meadowlands Pace become the Meadowlands PA Pace? Stay tuned for answers to these and other questions as we watch Christie and the Casino Owners destroy racing at the swamp.

[Pacingguy]

Okay, I can accept the fact the government wants out of horse racing. Fair enough.

What I don't understand is if they want out, then why are they keeping their ADW and OTWs? You want in or you want out. If you are going to divest yourself of the Meadowlands and Monmouth Park, then allow the purchaser of Monmouth and the leasor or the Meadowland or developer of a new harness track jointly acquire the ADW and OTW system so it would help support the bottom line.

Actually, I understand it completely. They want all the profiit and none of responsibility for putting on the show.

[thespaah]

It shouldn't go without mentioning here that a huge part of the problem with the Big M has been it's state-run status. In part, this is simply one more example of the inefficiencies of government-owned business. One would have thought that the demise of the old Soviet Union would have taught us all something, but apparently not in all cases.

And so, for example, the guy changing light bulbs in the Meadowlands backstretch is making about $80 an hour when you add up salary and all benefits. Same guy at a privately run operation? Maybe $20 if he's lucky.

Put a private owner to run the Big M? Good luck. In the union-run mob capital of the world, the cement-shoe crowd would rather see it returned to swamp land than to operate profitably without their cut of the action.

But blame it all on slots. Much easier that way.
That is an excellent point. NJ is the US capital of union thuggery.
However that is just part of the problem.
Harness racing in general failed to see what started happeneing as far back as the late 80's. A typical Meadowlands Saturday night crowd during the 80's was 17-20k...Handle was in the mid 2 million range, give or take. Statewide simulcasting boosted handle, but on track attendance started to slide to the point where by 1990, the Big M was drawing about 12 to 15k on Saturdays.
The issues were many. Number one was many of the people drawn to the track were finding other things on which to bet their money. Younger people were not being attracted to the sport. Poor marketing is to blame for that.
I would hate to see the Meadowlands closed and I can guarantee you that if the crooks in Trenton turn it into a simulcast place, I will never step foot in there. Ever.
Let's say for a moment this is indeed the final harness meet at the Meadowlands, what will change? IMO nothing. Most of the drivers already make trips to Yonkers, Chester and Pocono. They and the trainers will find catch drives and stall space respectively at those places. The big stakes at the Big M will disappear into racing history. The Hambletonian? Who knows. According to the rules set by the Hambletonian Society, the race MUST be contested on the first Saturday in August on a track one mile in circumference. So it's gonna go to Indiana or Hoosier. Or maybe Springfield, IL.
Unless some people wiht lots of money and a promise from the State government that a casino can be built at the site, I am sad to say the Meadwolands is doomed as a viable racing venue.

[thespaah]

You can not blame the slots for that, you should put the blame where it should be, those Southern Jersey casino owners who have lined Christie's pocket full of election contributions. This is simply a pay back. Gov Christie eliminated the funding of the casino's to the Big M which in effect made the Mecca of Harness racing a losing venture. If anything, the protectionist attitude of the Governor's office in shielding the casinos from competition from tracks as they are prevented from having the slots themselves.

This action is nothing more than letting the racing whither on the vine. Forget all those years that the state usurped both the tax revenue and prestige of turning a toxic waste dump and swamp into a recreational attraction. Bye Bye Big M.

Will the Hambo revert back to Duquoin? Will the Meadowlands Pace become the Meadowlands PA Pace? Stay tuned for answers to these and other questions as we watch Christie and the Casino Owners destroy racing at the swamp.
The Casino owners have been plotting against the NJ horse racing business for years. The Casinos have always had big money lobbyists roaming the halls of the biggest "grease my palm" den in the United States, the State Captol of NJ.
Menawhile , the AC casinos can't draw files because PA now has full casinos with table games in much cleaner and safer environments. Atlantic City is a filthy crime infested dump.

[thespaah]

Okay, I can accept the fact the government wants out of horse racing. Fair enough.

What I don't understand is if they want out, then why are they keeping their ADW and OTWs? You want in or you want out. If you are going to divest yourself of the Meadowlands and Monmouth Park, then allow the purchaser of Monmouth and the leasor or the Meadowland or developer of a new harness track jointly acquire the ADW and OTW system so it would help support the bottom line.

Actually, I understand it completely. They want all the profiit and none of responsibility for putting on the show.ANd the same fate awaits NJ as in NY with the failure that is the OTB system.
Bottom line, government cannot successfuly use a remote control to a tv without effing it up.

[LottaKash]

Senators pledge to save racetracks
Thursday, August 5, 2010
BY JOHN BRENNAN
The Record
STAFF WRITER
#printDesc{display:none;}Two influential South Jersey legislators vowed Wednesday to find a way to keep The Meadowlands Racetrack and Monmouth Park open for the long term, while criticizing a key adviser to Governor Christie for "abandoning our horse racing industry."

State Senate President Stephen Sweeney, D-Gloucester, and state Sen. James Whelan, D-Atlantic, were referring to a report handed to Christie two weeks ago that recommended selling the two tracks — or closing them if a buyer can't be found. The author of the report was Jon F. Hanson, the chairman of the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority from 1982 to 1990.

Wednesday's announcement mentioned neither the current method of subsidizing racing purses — an annual $30 million cash infusion from the Atlantic City casinos set to expire after this year — or bringing slot machines to the state's racetracks, the replacement subsidy that the horse racing industry prefers.

That brought a sharp retort from Christie spokesman Michael Drewniak.

"Their first commitment, from a fiscal responsibility position, should be to ensure that the industry can sustain itself without outside funding sources," Drewniak said. "It would have been better to hear some constructive ideas from the Senate president before he started complaining about our serious efforts to address the gaming and racing industry problems in New Jersey."



Gaming summit



The pledge to save the tracks came less than 48 hours before Friday morning's gaming summit at the Atlantic City Convention Center, an event that will feature comments from Atlantic City casino executives and analysts before public testimony begins.

State Sen. Paul Sarlo, D-Wood-Ridge, who has been at odds with Sweeney and Whelan over adding more gambling in the Meadowlands, said he hoped that the latest pronouncement was a first step toward "not making all this a North Jersey vs. South Jersey issue." Sarlo said the Hanson report was too focused on Atlantic City, and did not examine the state's gambling, entertainment and horse racing industries as a whole.

Tom Luchento, who runs the state's harness racing industry group, said he hoped Sweeney and Whelan were signaling their awareness of how important the equine industry is. He said the state's horse farms provide jobs and preserve open space in a congested state.

Assemblyman Ralph Caputo, D-Essex, a former Atlantic City casino marketing executive, is still backing slot machines or video lottery terminals (VLTs) at the racetracks because he says such a move could solve some of the state's fiscal problems faster than a marketing campaign can ease the casino industry's woes.

"Is there any way to save the horse industry without VLTs?" Caputo asked. "Where will we get the revenue [otherwise]?"

The gaming summit itself is facing criticism.

Republican Senate leader Tom Kean Jr. called it "unacceptable" that all 10 Senate and Assembly members at the summit will be Democrats. Assembly Speaker Sheila Oliver replied that Christie has offered the overall Republican plan, so Democrats need to begin to fashion their response.

While Friday's meeting is expected to focus on Christie's plan of a virtual state takeover of the Atlantic City casino district, the issue of Meadowlands gambling is so intertwined with the casinos that it also may be a significant topic.

Hanson has proposed privatizing the Izod Center and exploring ways to offer tax breaks to incoming Xanadu investors to get that long-delayed project open by 2012.

E-mail: brennan@northjersey.com


Two influential South Jersey legislators vowed Wednesday to find a way to keep The Meadowlands Racetrack and Monmouth Park open for the long term, while criticizing a key adviser to Governor Christie for "abandoning our horse racing industry."

State Senate President Stephen Sweeney, D-Gloucester, and state Sen. James Whelan, D-Atlantic, were referring to a report handed to Christie two weeks ago that recommended selling the two tracks — or closing them if a buyer can't be found. The author of the report was Jon F. Hanson, the chairman of the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority from 1982 to 1990.

Wednesday's announcement mentioned neither the current method of subsidizing racing purses — an annual $30 million cash infusion from the Atlantic City casinos set to expire after this year — or bringing slot machines to the state's racetracks, the replacement subsidy that the horse racing industry prefers.

That brought a sharp retort from Christie spokesman Michael Drewniak.

"Their first commitment, from a fiscal responsibility position, should be to ensure that the industry can sustain itself without outside funding sources," Drewniak said. "It would have been better to hear some constructive ideas from the Senate president before he started complaining about our serious efforts to address the gaming and racing industry problems in New Jersey."



Gaming summit



The pledge to save the tracks came less than 48 hours before Friday morning's gaming summit at the Atlantic City Convention Center, an event that will feature comments from Atlantic City casino executives and analysts before public testimony begins.

State Sen. Paul Sarlo, D-Wood-Ridge, who has been at odds with Sweeney and Whelan over adding more gambling in the Meadowlands, said he hoped that the latest pronouncement was a first step toward "not making all this a North Jersey vs. South Jersey issue." Sarlo said the Hanson report was too focused on Atlantic City, and did not examine the state's gambling, entertainment and horse racing industries as a whole.

Tom Luchento, who runs the state's harness racing industry group, said he hoped Sweeney and Whelan were signaling their awareness of how important the equine industry is. He said the state's horse farms provide jobs and preserve open space in a congested state.

Assemblyman Ralph Caputo, D-Essex, a former Atlantic City casino marketing executive, is still backing slot machines or video lottery terminals (VLTs) at the racetracks because he says such a move could solve some of the state's fiscal problems faster than a marketing campaign can ease the casino industry's woes.

"Is there any way to save the horse industry without VLTs?" Caputo asked. "Where will we get the revenue [otherwise]?"

The gaming summit itself is facing criticism.

Republican Senate leader Tom Kean Jr. called it "unacceptable" that all 10 Senate and Assembly members at the summit will be Democrats. Assembly Speaker Sheila Oliver replied that Christie has offered the overall Republican plan, so Democrats need to begin to fashion their response.

While Friday's meeting is expected to focus on Christie's plan of a virtual state takeover of the Atlantic City casino district, the issue of Meadowlands gambling is so intertwined with the casinos that it also may be a significant topic.

Hanson has proposed privatizing the Izod Center and exploring ways to offer tax breaks to incoming Xanadu investors to get that long-delayed project open by 2012.

E-mail: brennan@northjersey.com



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Thursday August 5, 2010, 9:34 AM - racingfan154 says:
Another insightful comment by Governor Christie's spokesman Dweniak. Yes Mr. Dweniak, this is what Senate President Sweeney is now addressing. Unlike the incredibly biased Hanson report that was nothing more than trying to put more money into Developers pockets by making outlandish recommendations regarding the Horse Racing Industry and the Xanadu Project. According to the Hanson report, all of New Jersey should be a shopping mall. It's finally time that the Horse Racing Industry and Atlantic City Casinos get on the same page and realize that the success of Horse Racing at the Meadowlands and Monmouth Park benefits EVERYONE! And speaking of being Fiscally responsible Mr. Dweniak, having the Hanson Report suggest putting almost 200 Million more of State money into Xanadu is far from being just that.
Share your view:

[Canarsie]

This fight is not along party lines it is north versus south. I have a hunch that Sweeney is having second thoughts as his leadership position would be threatened. I know Jennifer Beck (republican) has been to the forefront of criticism of this plan. She is my hero.

I wrote to one of my elected officials and haven't received a response. I put in there what does Al Leiter know about horse racing? He has been probably comped his whole life and you can put it in the bank he will never pay for a room in A.C. again if in fact he ever did.

[DeanT]

If anyone is going to the big race Saturday, please email if you'd like to get a beer/coke with some HANA peeps. Nick Salvi who posts here from Tioga will be there. As well, Jason S, who is the VP of racing for Tioga (who did a lot of the work to get takeout reduced) will be there too.

Thursday, August 5, 2010

HANA to Jersey (http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2010/08/hana-to-jersey.html)

This weekend there are a two events planned where HANA members will be congregating.

On Saturday, The Meadowlands is hosting the $1.5M Hambletonian. This race, as most know, is the pinnacle day for harness racing, with a card filled with major stakes, and an expected crowd of over 30,000. Several members of the HANA board will be on hand, and several members will be there from the harness side, including Bob Marks from Perretti Farms. Jason and Nick from Tioga Downs will be there too.

The Hambletonian website (http://www.thehambletonian.com/) should have free past performances up soon. There is news on the Hambo with on track events and wagering info here. (http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/news/8-4-10/2010-hambletonian-oaks-fields-set.html) Harnessracing.com will also have some info on it, from their weekly PDF. You can sign up for that here (http://www.harnessracing.com/members.php) if you are a harness fan.

Since most of the HANA board are thoroughbred players, they need all the help we can get, so swing by if you can.

On Sunday, it's off to Monmouth for HANA Day at the Races. The staff at the Shore track has been helpful. They want horseplayers to play there, and it shows. They have offered members free admission and programs, and links have been sent to members.

New Jersey, with low takeout like the 15% pick 4 and pick 5, has been trying to grow. As we all know, racing is struggling there. For people who care about New Jersey racing, this is quite sad. Several of us will be playing both cards this weekend to show support.

For info on both events, and if you would like to meet up, please email skip.away@yahoo.com and we can make some arrangements!

Enjoy the weekend everyone, and good luck at the windows.
tweetmeme_url = 'http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2010/08/hana-to-jersey.html';

[Robert Goren]

Since when is 15% a low takeout. If they want to survive they need to do lot better than that. Get it down in the single digits then they might have chance.Just get over the AC casinos. Their takeouts are such that they can make money. NJ, 20 some years ago, hitched its wagon to casinos. That going to change. Meadowlands could have lobbied for lower takeouts, but they didn't. They are now paying for that foolishness. I do not feel sorry anyone connected to NJ racing. The handwriting has been on the wall for a long time just is it is now for racinos. All they had to do is read it.

[thespaah]

This fight is not along party lines it is north versus south. I have a hunch that Sweeney is having second thoughts as his leadership position would be threatened. I know Jennifer Beck (republican) has been to the forefront of criticism of this plan. She is my hero.

I wrote to one of my elected officials and haven't received a response. I put in there what does Al Leiter know about horse racing? He has been probably comped his whole life and you can put it in the bank he will never pay for a room in A.C. again if in fact he ever did. In NJ it has always been north vs south.
Those in the north always felt they were paying far more than their share of taxes, paid a higher percentage of the tolls on the Turnpike and Parkway and were neglected on road maintenence and infrastructure. Those in the south have always though they were getting shorted on services from the State, received less than their share for education and thought they were underrepresented in Trenton.
The entrenched politicians south of the Raritan River have always favored the Casinos. Casino lobbying efforts have always paid off and usually at the expense of the horse racing industry.
Interesting to note that all through this the AC casinos are awash in red ink. The State govt now wants out of the horse business saying the business should operate without subsidies. Meanwhile those same people in State govt think it's very important for the State to prop up the Casinos.
Can't have it both ways.

[Robert Goren]

In NJ it has always been north vs south.
Those in the north always felt they were paying far more than their share of taxes, paid a higher percentage of the tolls on the Turnpike and Parkway and were neglected on road maintenence and infrastructure. Those in the south have always though they were getting shorted on services from the State, received less than their share for education and thought they were underrepresented in Trenton.
The entrenched politicians south of the Raritan River have always favored the Casinos. Casino lobbying efforts have always paid off and usually at the expense of the horse racing industry.
Interesting to note that all through this the AC casinos are awash in red ink. The State govt now wants out of the horse business saying the business should operate without subsidies. Meanwhile those same people in State govt think it's very important for the State to prop up the Casinos.
Can't have it both ways.The difference between the casinos and horse racing is that there some hope that casinos might become profitable again, Horse racing has no such hope. The other question if casinos are so unprofitable why do all the race tracks want to become one?

[markgoldie]

The difference between the casinos and horse racing is that there some hope that casinos might become profitable again, Horse racing has no such hope. The other question if casinos are so unprofitable why do all the race tracks want to become one?
Costs a ton to run an AC Hotel/casino using all union help. Costs nearly nothing to run a slot parlor. Jersey casinos are in big trouble due to the slots in surrounding Pa. and Del. Their long-range prognosis is extremely bleak as table games get added to to racinos.

Certain truths can be derived from a long-term view of what has happened and what is happening:

(1) People love to gamble.

(2) People love to gamble on easy-to-understand games. They don't want to spend hours and hours of study on a form of gambling that gives them the same adrenaline rush that they can get pulling the handle of a one-arm bandit (okay, so you push a button now). Also, if intensive study is required, then failure becomes personal, not just an act of fate. Who wants this? Masocists? Much easier to adopt the casino/slots' players attitude which goes something like this: "Yeah, most of the time you lose. But sometimes you win and I enjoy it- it's my form of recreation. Like...you see all these people spending thousands of dollars on camping equipment and all that stuff... well that's what they enjoy and spend their money on. Me? I like to go to the casino... same thing."

Interestingly, this is the attitude that many horseplayers would like to adopt as their own- the "Hey, we're all in the same losing boat here, so let's just admit that we love playing the ponies" attitude. This is why you may have noticed that so many forum posters get upset when someone says they are making money. It makes them confront personal failure. But I digress...

(3) People don't like traveling too far in order to gamble, just like they don't like traveling to save money on buying groceries, etc. That's why the convenience stores make a ton on overpriced grocery products even though the supermarket is only two blocks further away. This principle means that the local betting parlors will soak up local betting action. (Vegas is a bit of a different story because they are selling the notion of easy sex as well as gambling. And so people will travel to get there.)

(4) People who blame the lack of great marketing for the downslide of racing just don't get it. So Meadowlands used to have 15,000-people crowds on the weekends. But Roosevelt used to get 35,000+ and a handle of 3.5-4m in the 1960's. And those were 1960's dollars! Translated to today's dollars it was way over 15 million. I was in those crowds and it was a sea of elbow-to-elbow humanity because the granstand was a small fraction of the area of what you will now find in a major league ballpark, for example. Why did people flock in such numbers under such crazy adverse conditions? Because it was the ONLY form of legal gambling available.

(5) The final frontier is legal sports' betting. This is the remaining untapped area of major income for states. Can you say "HUGE"? It dwarfs other gambling forms. It has everything you could possibly want in a gambling format: (A) Simple to understand. You like the Steelers or the Packers? (B) A built-in rabid fan base who are already watching these games, rooting for their team. (C) No "house" who is clearly out there to take your cash as is the case with casinos. No rigged slots with their rate of return firmly inscribed in the computer program that runs them. (D) A low takeout rate which can go even lower and still be extremely profitable. (E) Flexibility and areas for expansion even when only two teams are playing. For example, you can play the point spread, or you can play the so-called money line, which is an odds' based determination of the winner. And so without even fooling with points, you can bet the team. If it wins, you win. Just a matter of how much you make. But also there are so-called "prop" bets which can be endless: like which team makes the first touchdown, which the first field goal, the receiver to catch the first pass, score the first touchdown, etc., etc., etc. Then we have in-game wagering, which is the ultimate in fan interaction. As the game is in progress, bets are offered for the next quarter or half of the game. And so on. (F) And maybe more importantly than anything else here, this is a field of gambling where even moderately involved players feel they have an actual chance of winning over a longer haul. You do not need the "I know I'm going to lose but I enjoy it anyway" attitude prevalent in other gaming venues. There are many reasons for this, but my purpose is not to write a book on sports' betting here.

My purpose is simply to say this: Whatever happens to The Meadowlands, horse-race wagering will continue a downward inevitable slide in the future. Get this through your head and enjoy it (if you are enjoying it) while you can.

[xfile]

When I first started following harness at the Meadowlands it was back in the late 70's and the world record was 1:54 and change. With technology in making faster bikes, etc, the world record today is like 35 lengths faster. Pretty amazing if you compare with thoroughbred racing. No horse will ever match Secretariat and those other greats from the 70's.

[thespaah]

The difference between the casinos and horse racing is that there some hope that casinos might become profitable again, Horse racing has no such hope. The other question if casinos are so unprofitable why do all the race tracks want to become one?
C'mon....Stop the nonsense. "Casinos" are not unprofitable. AC Casinos are unprofitable.
For example, Foxwoods an Mohigan Sun are doing fine business.
AC is a crime infested dump. People do not feel safe there. The State has essentially thrown in the towel on trusting the AC police Dept to protect the customers of the Casino district so much so that the State has proposed to take over security in the casino area.
SInce PA has legalized table games in it's casinos, AC has been losing business to those in Eastern PA.

[thespaah]

When I first started following harness at the Meadowlands it was back in the late 70's and the world record was 1:54 and change. With technology in making faster bikes, etc, the world record today is like 35 lengths faster. Pretty amazing if you compare with thoroughbred racing. No horse will ever match Secretariat and those other greats from the 70's.time has always been a major factor with the harness game. Breeding rights and fees are based in part on lifetime marks.
Your point is accurate.

[markgoldie]

When I first started following harness at the Meadowlands it was back in the late 70's and the world record was 1:54 and change. With technology in making faster bikes, etc, the world record today is like 35 lengths faster. Pretty amazing if you compare with thoroughbred racing. No horse will ever match Secretariat and those other greats from the 70's.
You are a little off in your timeline of speed in harness racing. In 1966, Bret Hanover paced in 1:53.3. So the record was not 1:54 and change in the late 70's.

The reason standardbreds are still going faster and faster is that they are a much newer breed than thoroughbreds. They have not yet met the "wall" of potential. But I think that day is fast approaching. Where it will occur is just a guess, but I'd think somewhere in the low-mid 1:40's for a mile. I could be wrong about that, but I think that the leaping ability of the thoroughbred, which uses both hind legs at the same time will always create a longer stride pattern than can be matched by a standardbred which uses one hind leg at a time to propel the forward motion.

[Robert Goren]

Costs a ton to run an AC Hotel/casino using all union help. Costs nearly nothing to run a slot parlor. Jersey casinos are in big trouble due to the slots in surrounding Pa. and Del. Their long-range prognosis is extremely bleak as table games get added to to racinos.

Certain truths can be derived from a long-term view of what has happened and what is happening:

(1) People love to gamble.

(2) People love to gamble on easy-to-understand games. They don't want to spend hours and hours of study on a form of gambling that gives them the same adrenaline rush that they can get pulling the handle of a one-arm bandit (okay, so you push a button now). Also, if intensive study is required, then failure becomes personal, not just an act of fate. Who wants this? Masocists? Much easier to adopt the casino/slots' players attitude which goes something like this: "Yeah, most of the time you lose. But sometimes you win and I enjoy it- it's my form of recreation. Like...you see all these people spending thousands of dollars on camping equipment and all that stuff... well that's what they enjoy and spend their money on. Me? I like to go to the casino... same thing."

Interestingly, this is the attitude that many horseplayers would like to adopt as their own- the "Hey, we're all in the same losing boat here, so let's just admit that we love playing the ponies" attitude. This is why you may have noticed that so many forum posters get upset when someone says they are making money. It makes them confront personal failure. But I digress...

(3) People don't like traveling too far in order to gamble, just like they don't like traveling to save money on buying groceries, etc. That's why the convenience stores make a ton on overpriced grocery products even though the supermarket is only two blocks further away. This principle means that the local betting parlors will soak up local betting action. (Vegas is a bit of a different story because they are selling the notion of easy sex as well as gambling. And so people will travel to get there.)

(4) People who blame the lack of great marketing for the downslide of racing just don't get it. So Meadowlands used to have 15,000-people crowds on the weekends. But Roosevelt used to get 35,000+ and a handle of 3.5-4m in the 1960's. And those were 1960's dollars! Translated to today's dollars it was way over 15 million. I was in those crowds and it was a sea of elbow-to-elbow humanity because the granstand was a small fraction of the area of what you will now find in a major league ballpark, for example. Why did people flock in such numbers under such crazy adverse conditions? Because it was the ONLY form of legal gambling available.

(5) The final frontier is legal sports' betting. This is the remaining untapped area of major income for states. Can you say "HUGE"? It dwarfs other gambling forms. It has everything you could possibly want in a gambling format: (A) Simple to understand. You like the Steelers or the Packers? (B) A built-in rabid fan base who are already watching these games, rooting for their team. (C) No "house" who is clearly out there to take your cash as is the case with casinos. No rigged slots with their rate of return firmly inscribed in the computer program that runs them. (D) A low takeout rate which can go even lower and still be extremely profitable. (E) Flexibility and areas for expansion even when only two teams are playing. For example, you can play the point spread, or you can play the so-called money line, which is an odds' based determination of the winner. And so without even fooling with points, you can bet the team. If it wins, you win. Just a matter of how much you make. But also there are so-called "prop" bets which can be endless: like which team makes the first touchdown, which the first field goal, the receiver to catch the first pass, score the first touchdown, etc., etc., etc. Then we have in-game wagering, which is the ultimate in fan interaction. As the game is in progress, bets are offered for the next quarter or half of the game. And so on. (F) And maybe more importantly than anything else here, this is a field of gambling where even moderately involved players feel they have an actual chance of winning over a longer haul. You do not need the "I know I'm going to lose but I enjoy it anyway" attitude prevalent in other gaming venues. There are many reasons for this, but my purpose is not to write a book on sports' betting here.

My purpose is simply to say this: Whatever happens to The Meadowlands, horse-race wagering will continue a downward inevitable slide in the future. Get this through your head and enjoy it (if you are enjoying it) while you can. Alot of what you say I agree with. I just want to add one thing. In the 1960s the takeout rates 12-13%. on all bets. A lot more people had a chance to survive with those rates.

[markgoldie]

Alot of what you say I agree with. I just want to add one thing. In the 1960s the takeout rates 12-13%. on all bets. A lot more people had a chance to survive with those rates.
Correct. But Mr. Twobuck was still getting clobbered and when you get down to it, he's the action we'd all love to see back in the game. I don't think anyone is particularly yearning for more whale groups to boost up handles around the country.

[Robert Goren]

Correct. But Mr. Twobuck was still getting clobbered and when you get down to it, he's the action we'd all love to see back in the game. I don't think anyone is particularly yearning for more whale groups to boost up handles around the country.Whale groups are already getting the takeout rates(with rebates) and better than I got in 1960s. I agree we have too many of them now. I am Mr Twobuck now. I don't have the bankroll to get the big rebates and the lesser ones aren't enough for me to make any real money. So I just make an occasional small wager on a horse I like and reload my account every couple of months. But it would be nice if got back $11 on winning bet instead of $10. I might not have to reload as often. Horse racing needs people who go to the track with $500. If it let them leave with $700 once in awhile instead $300 or less every time they might come back more often. At these takeout rates and how the tracks rip them off on everything from parking to DRFs to food and drinks, it is no wonder nobody goes anymore. They have no chance to leave the $700 ever. They need to at least a hope getting out there with a little more they came with on any given day. They don't have that hope now. Racing now days likes to put a leaf of lettuce on a hamburger and add a buck to the price and then wonder why they aren't selling more hamburgers.