Do you Support the Extension of the Saratoga Meet?

[andtheyreoff]

:3x:

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

I love Saratoga. From a business perspective it is most likely a better money maker then dates at Belmont, however, the window is closing for a maximum amount of dates that would take away from this special meet.

[lamboguy]

the one thing i have learned about the racing industry is that every time they try to change something they put a fork in the game. the saratoga meet is not broke yet, i would leave the baby alone!

[point given]

I love Saratoga. From a business perspective it is most likely a better money maker then dates at Belmont, however, the window is closing for a maximum amount of dates that would take away from this special meet.

while i support the longer meet, they should scale back to a 5 day week and be dark Tuesday andd Wednesday.

[thespaah]

I think it's a mistake. NYRA is simply spreading the same number of people over more dates. Since the meet went from 30 to 36 now 40 dates, attendance on Mon, Weds and Thurs has not been what it was. And Typically Saratoga attendance almost is dismal the week after the Travers.
Not only that, the facility takes a pounding over a longer meet. I think a month long meet is plenty. Either than or the week should go to 5 days.
Oh, I think the Travers Stakes should be run on Labor Day weekend. In the northeast, that is the traditional end of the summer season. Why not go out with a bang.
I realize that it is Saratoga traditon to run the Schuylerville on openoing day and the Hopeful on closing weekend. Sometimes things have to be adjusted. I see no harm in running the Travers on closing weekend. This would place the Jim Dandy 5 or 6 weeks out front of the Travers. Hmmmm.

[Ron]

Does it matter?

[KingChas]

Does it matter?

Hey stranger,back for spa,huh. ;)
You got a point. :ThmbUp:

[The_Knight_Sky]

while i support the longer meet,
they should scale back to a 5 day week and be dark Tuesday andd Wednesday.




I support a 24 day meet upstate.

And a 24 day Fall Championship Meet downstate
with the return of The Marlboro Cup, Woodward Stakes etc.

5 days a week is plentiful. http://i27.tinypic.com/548tom.jpg
6 days a week is going to be a grind. I want to see the Saratoga of old.

[the little guy]

I support a 24 day meet upstate.

And a 24 day Fall Championship Meet downstate
with the return of The Marlboro Cup, Woodward Stakes etc.

5 days a week is plentiful. http://i27.tinypic.com/548tom.jpg
6 days a week is going to be a grind. I want to see the Saratoga of old.

Synopsis......


1. Less Saratoga is better for Monmouth

2. Can't figure this one out given it is so far removed from reality.

3. 5 days a week is the " Saratoga of old? "


Translation.....Monmouth=Good, NYRA=Bad.

We got it a long time ago.

[aaron]

I support the extension of the Saratoga meet. I actually believe the best thing for NY racing would be 8 weeks at Saratoga with 5 days of racing each week. The meet could start around the July 2nd and run till Aug 29 and come back to Belmont for Labor Day weekend. Just my opinion.

[classhandicapper]

I think NYRA has to calculate for itself how to maximize the money it can make, but personally I think the meet has been in free fall for years.

The thing that always made Saratoga special for me (aside from the beauty of the place and my annual vacation there) was the steady supply of high quality racing. I used to look forward to all the stakes and other high quality races being carded on such a regular basis.

Now, with the meet extended so much, it has been watered down so badly it has lost much of its appeal to me as a fan. I used to anxiously buy the DRF every day. Now the meet reminds me more of another version of the Belmont fall meet. You could get away with buying the weekend cards and not miss much.

[aaron]

I think NYRA has to calculate for itself how to maximize the money it can make, but personally I think the meet has been in free fall for years.

The thing that always made Saratoga special for me (aside from the beauty of the place and my annual vacation there) was the steady supply of high quality racing. I used to look forward to all the stakes and other high quality races being carded on such a regular basis.

Now, with the meet extended so much, it has been watered down so badly it has lost much of its appeal to me as a fan. I used to anxiously buy the DRF every day. Now the meet reminds me more of another version of the Belmont fall meet. You could get away with buying the weekend cards and not miss much.
I agree with what you said. To take it a step further,if you look at the horses running at Belmont,it has become an extension of winter racing. With that said,I still believe racing 8 weeks,5days a week would be good for NY racing. I also believe if you are going to add races to the card,it would be better to have an earlier post time,especially at Belmont. At Saratoga,I would like a earlier post time,but I understand that people are there on vacation and they probably don't mind staying later. At Belmont,most of the regular customers would prefer an earlier post time when there are 10 or more races.
Another thing,I would like to see is less time in between races. A large percentage of the handle is bet in the last 3 minutes,so there really is no need to have 35 minutes between races. If the game was sped up,it might attract some new fans.

[The_Knight_Sky]

... there really is no need to have 35 minutes between races.

If the game was sped up,it might attract some new fans.





Agreed.

But actually it is more like 40 to 45 minutes between races.
Especially on the weekends.

That includes factoring in the obligatory scratch(es) at the gate
and the re-load process.

[the little guy]

Agreed.

But actually it is more like 40 to 45 minutes between races.
Especially on the weekends.

That includes factoring in the obligatory scratch(es) at the gate
and the re-load process.


Does your nose grow when you post?

[joanied]

I voted no because I think the meet is probably just fine as is...if they want to extend it, I think they need to wait and see how the industry does over the next year...adding days just might dilute the incredible appeal of the meet by way of 'too much of a good thing'.

[riskman]

Does your nose grow when you post?

http://paris.novopress.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/pinocchio1.gif

In that fall Belmont 24 day meet, perhaps NYRA can include a new stakes race in honor of the TKS
The Pinocchio Derby.

[thespaah]

Synopsis......


1. Less Saratoga is better for Monmouth

2. Can't figure this one out given it is so far removed from reality.

3. 5 days a week is the " Saratoga of old? "


Translation.....Monmouth=Good, NYRA=Bad.

We got it a long time ago.
Not with me. I love Saratoga. And the swuccess of NYRA is of great interest to me. It is my desire to see this meet succeed forever. However I believe too much of even a good thing can be bad.
I just think that a 5 day week would allow the track to be dark on days where attendance is down anyway. I also think that decreasing availabiltiy increases demand.
What are your thoughts on this?

[The_Knight_Sky]

I just think that a 5 day week would allow the track to be dark on days where attendance is down anyway.

I also think that decreasing availabiltiy increases demand.
What are your thoughts on this?




That second day off is a positive. A third would be better in today's environment. Or else we'll brace for the disgruntled losers blaming everything, the BP Oil Spill and the Goldman Sachs fiasco, and their inability to crack Saratoga's 26% takeout rates on Monmouth. ;)

But any serious Spa fan should have their charts from yesteryear
and be able to count the minutes between races on their big days.

If they did they would be able to see what race-watching Geppetto can see... a steady increase in the time between races towards the end of the card. Occurrences of of 30-35-40 minutes wait between races are not uncommon especially on big racing days.

[NTamm1215]

That second day off is a positive. A third would be better in today's environment. Or else we'll brace for the disgruntled losers blaming everything, the BP Oil Spill and the Goldman Sachs fiasco, and their inability to crack Saratoga's 26% takeout rates on Monmouth. ;)

But any serious Spa fan should have their charts from yesteryear
and be able to count the minutes between races on their big days.

If they did they would be able to see what race-watching Geppetto can see... a steady increase in the time between races towards the end of the card. Occurrences of of 30-35-40 minutes wait between races are not uncommon especially on big racing days.

These were the off times of your beloved Monmouth's races this past Saturday, the 17th:

12:53 (3 minutes behind schedule tsk tsk)
1:23
1:52
2:24
2:54
3:29 (A staggering 35 minutes!)
3:58
4:29
5:00
5:30
6:00
6:30

These were the off times of Saratoga's first Saturday card last year:

1:00
1:32
2:04
2:36
3:09
3:40
4:10
4:44
5:17
5:50
6:22

Saratoga had one race with 34 minutes in between and it was the start of the Pick 4. This pretty much shoots down your theory of there being 40-45 minutes between races, that's just not true unless there's an occasional exception.

NT

[The_Knight_Sky]

.... that's just not true unless there's an occasional exception.

NT

Precisely that. The exceptions to the rule. Watch for them.

Unlike the others you did some homework, NTamm. WTG!
But one card does not represent indisputable proof that there aren't
occasional forays beyond the 30 minute wait between races.

I have seen and experienced waits 35-40 minutes and 40+ minutes is pushing it but it has happened on a few occasions. Instances of loose horses, rain delays/track maintenance all conspire to push the post times back.

No matter, I think all of us want the races go off as advertised
at the proper times at the correctly carded surface and distance.
That much is basic customer service.

[NTamm1215]

Precisely that. The exceptions to the rule. Watch for them.

Unlike the others you did some homework, NTamm. WTG!
But one card does not represent indisputable proof that there aren't
the occasional forays beyond the 30 minute wait between races.

I have seen and experienced waits 35-40 minutes and 40+ minutes is pushing it but it has happened on a few occasions. Instances of loose horses, rain delays/track maintenance all conspire to push the post times back.

No matter, I think all of us wants is that the races go off as advertised
at the proper times with at the correctly carded surface and distance.
That much is basic customer service.

Personally, I have no problem with tracks stalling for a few minutes before each race to increase the size of the pools. Any good racetrack executive will tell you that your post time and positioning vs. other racetracks can be the difference between a good and bad day but also a good and great day.

Gulfstream built in some extra time on Fla Derby day and had a near record day handle-wise. Tampa is notorious for doing it and for being far away from their scheduled post times on certain days. Monmouth is doing a much better job of it than they have in the past and (amid many other things) is helping their bottom line. The NYRA tracks have always stuck out as being the track the others try to avoid in terms of post time and that's amplified during the Saratoga meet. If Monmouth continues to try to stay in that niche about 15-20 min behind Saratoga their days will get a little longer as well.

NT

[tzipi]

Saratoga does not have 40-45 min between posts. That's just plain crazy. Maybe once a year they'll have a malfuction or horse problem and you'll get that 40-45 min wait but thats it.

[Dahoss9698]

Precisely that. The exceptions to the rule. Watch for them.

Unlike the others you did some homework, NTamm. WTG!
But one card does not represent indisputable proof that there aren't
occasional forays beyond the 30 minute wait between races.

I have seen and experienced waits 35-40 minutes and 40+ minutes is pushing it but it has happened on a few occasions. Instances of loose horses, rain delays/track maintenance all conspire to push the post times back.

No matter, I think all of us want the races go off as advertised
at the proper times at the correctly carded surface and distance.
That much is basic customer service.

Just curious here....When there is a loose horse, rain delays etc, what should the track do? Isn't it more important to handle those situations than to get a race off at the exact time it is supposed to? Is it really a big deal if a race goes off a few minutes after the time it is supposed to?

Honestly, when you are at Saratoga the time in between races seems like it's 5 minutes instead of 30 or so.

[slewis]

Everyone on PA knows how incompetant I KNOW (not think, KNOW) NYRA's head dumbo's are. But I will give them credit for trying something new.

Here's the problem:

The last week of the SPA meet is ALWAYS weak...it's actually almost a ghost town up there during weekdays of the final week. Last year, Rachel Alexandra saved NYRA's ass and kept the interest up ON the last weekend.

NYRA cant count on something like that this year, if it happens, great, but dont expect it.

Next Year, what I would seriously think about doing, is racing at Belmont only the two consecutive weekends prior to Saratoga opening (they ALWAYS REALLY struggle to fill races those weeks because everyone holds their horses for the SPA). This would create larger fields and better wagering opportunities those final two weekends of Belmont.

I would then add the week to the Saratoga meeting, racing 6 days per week the first three weeks of the meet, and 5 days per, the final four weeks.

I would also bump purses up a grand or two at Belmont and knock a grand or two off those at Saratoga, if, I had budget issues next year (which they surely will). Owners want to win at Saratoga..

[Grits]

How does one begin with
a. actually

The Knight Sky wrote: But actually it is more like 40 to 45 minutes between races. Especially on the weekends.

Move to
b. not uncommon

The Knight Sky wrote: Occurrences of 30-35-40 minutes wait between races are not uncommon especially on big racing days.

Then, go to
c. on a few occasions

The Knight Sky wrote: I have seen and experienced waits 35-40 minutes and 40+ minutes is pushing it but it has happened on a few occasions.

All within a span of three posts? Knight Sky it seems this is rather varying to say the least.

[fmolf]

How does one begin with
a. actually



Move to
b. not uncommon



Then, go to
c. on a few occasions



All within a span of three posts? Knight Sky it seems this is rather varying to say the least.
who cares how much time between races?....gives me more time to peruse the woman and look over the pp's for spot plays at monmouth or delaware!If they did this at a dingy place like aqueduct then i might gripe....I voted for less, better quality racing.

[horses4courses]

I'm in favor of trying a longer meet.

It seems, every year, that the quality summer meets pass by far too fast.

I welcome a few extra days. :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

Instances of loose horses, rain delays/track maintenance all conspire to push the post times back.

And this is unacceptable?

[Lasix67]

Maybe by a week or two, as long as it doesn't dilute the product and I don't see that happening with just a couple of extra weeks.