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View Full Version : Del Mar's opening 2 cards: Embarrassing.


Stillriledup
07-19-2010, 01:19 PM
Are they passing out bags at the gates or do you bring your own paper bag (to wear on your head)?

horses4courses
07-19-2010, 01:38 PM
On Wednesday, you will see the 3yo horse of the year in action at Del Mar.

Twirling Candy

You heard it here first.........

(I do agree, though, that the cards are weak in comparison to yesteryear)

DJofSD
07-19-2010, 02:40 PM
I'm still waiting for the morning line data to be included in the BRIS D/L. But looking at the number of runners, and, that once more, the Oceanside has not been split, does not make me jump for joy.

rastajenk
07-19-2010, 02:57 PM
On Wednesday, you will see the 3yo horse of the year in action at Del Mar.

Twirling Candy

You heard it here first............for the last time.
:p

Stillriledup
07-19-2010, 04:51 PM
I'm still waiting for the morning line data to be included in the BRIS D/L. But looking at the number of runners, and, that once more, the Oceanside has not been split, does not make me jump for joy.

Runner totals AND quality are suffering big time. I could have sworn that Todd Pletcher and some other east coast heavyweights were trumpeting the plastic saying they are going to run a string of horses out west. I havent seen too many Pletcher horses out west and to think about it, i haven't seen too many horses from trainers based out east either. You used to see them from time to time, but no more.

statepierback
07-19-2010, 04:55 PM
It looks like Hollywood on Polycrap. I'm not excited at all. Right now the best racing is at Monmouth.

surfdog89
07-19-2010, 05:01 PM
T. Candy Looks like the one of the horses... but must answer if he likes the turf,the added distance and can he be rated off the pace. Gallant Gent might improve off his last race. He had to need that last race. He has back class running with the likes of Lookin for Lucky. I think he will love the mile. He is one of a short list with T. Candy.

andymays
07-19-2010, 05:55 PM
http://www.drf.com/news/article/114925.html

Excerpt:

Del Mar lopped six days (43 to 37) from its 2009 schedule, racing five days a week rather than six. The Wednesday-through-Sunday schedule helped the track maintain an average field size of 8.56 starters. That will be difficult to match. Available horse inventory in Southern California is down more than 25 percent, from 3,800 horses a year ago to 2,800.

"The numbers are down," Robbins said. "We knew that going in, and we actually were concerned."

The worry is compounded by ambitious scheduling of 10-race cards at Hollywood Park and Del Mar. Hollywood ran 10 races the final two days of its meet, Del Mar will run 10 races opening day, and 10 races are scheduled for this Saturday and Sunday.

Not long ago, most horsemen wanted to be at Del Mar. This year, Robbins said the stables are "not as filled up as we have been in the past." Del Mar historically has 2,200 horses on the grounds. This year there will be an estimated 1,900.

pandy
07-19-2010, 07:34 PM
I would imagine the cards will be weaker at Saratoga this year, too, with Monmouth and the over all state of racing, although that may be a good thing, the races can be tough to handicap there.

elhelmete
07-19-2010, 07:59 PM
Forget about the polytrack for a moment...

If you don't already have horses in SoCal, you've gotta think twice before shipping in. And from where are you shipping? Where's the closest racing product that could be considered a shipping source?

If you're in the east, even just east of, say, Ohio and you have horses of any ability you have what...a dozen?...tracks to consider that don't require a 2000-3000 mile ship.

On top of all else, SoCal will always be at a disadvantage due to its geographical isolation from other racing venues.

levinmpa
07-19-2010, 10:05 PM
I used to enjoy the Del Mar meeting and looked forward to it every year. I don't remember the last time I had that excitement of Del Mar starting. The quality has not been good for so many years and now the Polytrack has made Del Mar completely insignificant for me. I have not made a wager there since they put that Poly surface down. California racing is going to have to go the Monmouth route and go Friday, Saturday and Sunday. The product just stinks right now due to the small fields. So many horses have left the state, and track management and the CHRB do not seem to have a plan. It's so discouraging to see a state with such a rich history of top class thoroughbred racing crumbling in front of us. I will be concentrating my handicapping efforts and wagering dollars on Saratoga, Monmouth and Delaware.

affirmedny
07-19-2010, 11:01 PM
Forget about the polytrack for a moment...

If you don't already have horses in SoCal, you've gotta think twice before shipping in. And from where are you shipping? Where's the closest racing product that could be considered a shipping source?

If you're in the east, even just east of, say, Ohio and you have horses of any ability you have what...a dozen?...tracks to consider that don't require a 2000-3000 mile ship.

On top of all else, SoCal will always be at a disadvantage due to its geographical isolation from other racing venues.

They haven't moved it since they had decent sized fields as I recall. I would think the problem lies elsewhere.

Robert Goren
07-19-2010, 11:23 PM
Almost everybody is having problems with short fields these days. Too many tracks and too many horses staying in their stalls. I don't understand why owners want to own a horse and not have it run. Somebody is going to have explain to me how an owner makes with a horse who seldom, if ever, leaves it stall.

Stillriledup
07-20-2010, 12:47 AM
Almost everybody is having problems with short fields these days. Too many tracks and too many horses staying in their stalls. I don't understand why owners want to own a horse and not have it run. Somebody is going to have explain to me how an owner makes with a horse who seldom, if ever, leaves it stall.

The great John Shirreffs had 99 starters for the entire 2009 racing season. Ninety Nine. That's 2 starters per week. There are dozens of tracks in the USA, a handful of slots tracks yet this guy only had 99 starters.

Igeteven
07-20-2010, 01:27 AM
Are they passing out bags at the gates or do you bring your own paper bag (to wear on your head)?

They're doing the best they can with what they can

Hedevar
07-20-2010, 12:43 PM
The atmosphere is still great. No track in America even comes close in terms of atmosphere. There is no roar in horse racing in the WORLD louder than the roar of the crowd BEFORE the first race on opening day at Del Mar.

The time to prove it has come.

Stillriledup
07-20-2010, 01:03 PM
The time to prove it has come.

The roar of the crowd for the first race will be loud, but that noise will be made by people who are coming to one day of racing. After that opening day, most of those people who were cheering will not be supporting that meet, nor wagering on it.

The cheering for race 1 of the meet rings very hollow since most of those people cheering will be making their first and last visit to Del Mar in 2010. And, even if they DO go back, they're just going there to drink and be merry, not to wager.

kenwoodall2
07-20-2010, 02:00 PM
The roar of the crowd for the first race will be loud, but that noise will be made by people who are coming to one day of racing. After that opening day, most of those people who were cheering will not be supporting that meet, nor wagering on it.

The cheering for race 1 of the meet rings very hollow since most of those people cheering will be making their first and last visit to Del Mar in 2010. And, even if they DO go back, they're just going there to drink and be merry, not to wager.
This post is the only one which is the slightest bit on topic: all others do not mention the topic, the first 2 race cards, because you only use threads as an excuse to trash

kenwoodall2
07-20-2010, 02:16 PM
QUOTE=Stillriledup]The roar of the crowd for the first race will be loud, but that noise will be made by people who are coming to one day of racing. After that opening day, most of those people who were cheering will not be supporting that meet, nor wagering on it.

The cheering for race 1 of the meet rings very hollow since most of those people cheering will be making their first and last visit to Del Mar in 2010. And, even if they DO go back, they're just going there to drink and be merry, not to wager.[/QUOTE]
This post is the only one which is the slightest bit on topic: all others do not mention the topic, the first 2 race cards, because SOME OF YOU only use threads as an excuse to trash almost anything California. Thanks for wasting my time.

carlonr
07-20-2010, 03:32 PM
The great John Shirreffs had 99 starters for the entire 2009 racing season. Ninety Nine. That's 2 starters per week. There are dozens of tracks in the USA, a handful of slots tracks yet this guy only had 99 starters.


What were his stats in previous years?

joanied
07-20-2010, 03:47 PM
How many horses does Sherriff's have in his barn...you'd kinda have to have that stat before complaining about running only 99 horses all meet...don't ya think?
:)

carlonr
07-20-2010, 03:47 PM
The roar of the crowd for the first race will be loud, but that noise will be made by people who are coming to one day of racing. After that opening day, most of those people who were cheering will not be supporting that meet, nor wagering on it.

The cheering for race 1 of the meet rings very hollow since most of those people cheering will be making their first and last visit to Del Mar in 2010. And, even if they DO go back, they're just going there to drink and be merry, not to wager.

Where are you getting the information that attendees don't bet on a daily basis?

Stillriledup
07-20-2010, 04:42 PM
Where are you getting the information that attendees don't bet on a daily basis?

The point was that plenty of people who go on opening day don't make even one bet other than maybe splitting a 2 dollar show bet with a friend.

Stillriledup
07-20-2010, 04:43 PM
How many horses does Sherriff's have in his barn...you'd kinda have to have that stat before complaining about running only 99 horses all meet...don't ya think?
:)

It wasnt 99 all meet, it was 99 for the entire year at all tracks in the USA.

Stillriledup
07-20-2010, 04:45 PM
What were his stats in previous years?

Don't know. Just using that as an example of a high profile trainer who runs horses very sparingly.

Stillriledup
07-20-2010, 04:46 PM
This post is the only one which is the slightest bit on topic: all others do not mention the topic, the first 2 race cards, because you only use threads as an excuse to trash

Not trashing, just saying. I love Del Mar, i wish they would go back to dirt, run 2 divisions of the oceanside because the entry box is overflowing and be able to have more than 58 horses on the day 2 card. Hopefully we can get back to the glory days at some point.

carlonr
07-20-2010, 04:50 PM
The point was that plenty of people who go on opening day don't make even one bet other than maybe splitting a 2 dollar show bet with a friend.


And what is wrong with that if you can get large numbers of people doing it?

Stillriledup
07-20-2010, 05:01 PM
And what is wrong with that if you can get large numbers of people doing it?

Its fine if everyone does it. Problem is, there are hundreds of people on opening day who don't even wager 1 dollar and then don't return even once the entire meet. The goal for DMR is to try and somehow introduce these people to betting. Maybe they ought to give out a coupon for a free 2 dollar wager, that would get everyone up to the window at least once to wager (and hopefully cash).

carlonr
07-20-2010, 05:12 PM
Its fine if everyone does it. Problem is, there are hundreds of people on opening day who don't even wager 1 dollar and then don't return even once the entire meet. The goal for DMR is to try and somehow introduce these people to betting. Maybe they ought to give out a coupon for a free 2 dollar wager, that would get everyone up to the window at least once to wager (and hopefully cash).

"Hundreds" is still a relatively low number compared to over 40,000. I think you would be amazed at how many people bet at Del Mar. They may bet their birthday or the color of the silks or their lucky number or whatever, but the vast majority of people that come to Del Mar come to wager. Not to make money per se' but to have the thrill of cheering for their horse! If they win money , that's gravy.

DJofSD
07-20-2010, 05:14 PM
Maybe they ought to give out a coupon for a free 2 dollar wager, that would get everyone up to the window at least once to wager (and hopefully cash).

They do.

Stillriledup
07-20-2010, 06:49 PM
They do.

Good. Smart idea.

fmolf
07-20-2010, 07:03 PM
the bottom line to all of this is that many trainers do not like to train or race on the poly.When cal. tracks remove the poly the racing will return...the breeders will breed because you'll have owners who want to own(and race) and trainers who encourage their owners to run their horses!California has lost horses to pha. pk(via doug o,neill) the've lost horses to new mexico...arizona..wash. st.......they need to figure it out for themselves....And the best race meet in the country always was and always will be Saratoga!It' very prestigious and owners want their horses to break their maidens at the spa...it's a good selling point for the two yr olds!

Stillriledup
07-20-2010, 07:07 PM
the bottom line to all of this is that many trainers do not like to train or race on the poly.When cal. tracks remove the poly the racing will return...the breeders will breed because you'll have owners who want to own(and race) and trainers who encourage their owners to run their horses!California has lost horses to pha. pk(via doug o,neill) the've lost horses to new mexico...arizona..wash. st.......they need to figure it out for themselves....And the best race meet in the country always was and always will be Saratoga!It' very prestigious and owners want their horses to break their maidens at the spa...it's a good selling point for the two yr olds!

Exactly.

FenceBored
07-20-2010, 07:47 PM
"Hundreds" is still a relatively low number compared to over 40,000. I think you would be amazed at how many people bet at Del Mar. They may bet their birthday or the color of the silks or their lucky number or whatever, but the vast majority of people that come to Del Mar come to wager. Not to make money per se' but to have the thrill of cheering for their horse! If they win money , that's gravy.

Quick look at opening day vs. closing day at Del Mar over the past 8 years (last 5 of dirt and first 3 of Polytrack)

Opening Day
year atd on-track per cap
2009 44,907 $3,954,701 $ 88.06
2008 43,459 $4,030,904 $ 92.75
2007 42,842 $4,677,817 $109.19
2006 42,005 $4,638,934 $110.44
2005 40,046 $4,673,891 $116.71
2004 39,346 $4,353,188 $110.64
2003 40,682 $4,413,099 $108.48
2002 37,439 $4,152,233 $110.91

avg 41,341 $4,361,846 $105.90
synth 43,736 $4,221,141 $ 96.67
dirt 39,904 $4,446,269 $111.43





Closing Day
year atd on-track per cap
2009 13,140 $2,279,760 $173.50
2008 15,440 $2,697,576 $174.71
2007 17,069 $3,592,759 $210.48
2006 16,101 $2,910,597 $180.77
2005 16,991 $3,111,205 $183.11
2004 15,132 $2,989,818 $197.58
2003 16,006 $2,980,900 $186.24
2002 14,921 $2,709,071 $181.56

avg 15,600 $2,908,961 $185.99
synth 15,216 $2,856,698 $186.23
dirt 15,830 $2,940,318 $185.85




Closing day crowds are smaller, yet wager significantly more per person than opening day crowds. That's just a fact.

Let's look at a hypothetical shall we? Let's say that the closing day attendees are all regulars who also came opening day and wagered the same amount. What would the figures be for just the 'non-regulars' opening day attendees.

"Opening Day" minus "closing day" figures
year atd on-track per cap
2009 31,767 $1,674,941 $52.73
2008 28,019 $1,333,328 $47.59
2007 25,773 $1,085,058 $42.10
2006 25,904 $1,728,337 $66.72
2005 23,055 $1,562,686 $67.78
2004 24,214 $1,363,370 $56.31
2003 24,676 $1,432,199 $58.04
2002 22,518 $1,443,162 $64.09

avg 25,741 $1,452,885 $56.92
synth 28,520 $1,364,442 $47.47
dirt 24,073 $1,505,951 $62.59

DJofSD
07-20-2010, 08:07 PM
Closing day has changed from a Wednesday. What year the happened I don't recall.