Monmouth Handle $9,085,811 Sat. July 17

[David-LV]

Business is still booming at Monmouth with no letup in sight.

Saturday Handle July 17 was another giant day of $9,085,811 of betting from all sources.

_________
David-LV

MONMOUTH="A SCORE AT THE SHORE."

[peakpros]

Maybe you think business is booming but Monmouth management does not.

While you sit in Vegas, we, owners and handicappers that have been going to Monmouth for years and years talk and speak with Monmouth management daily.

Your handle summaries mean little to the management at Monmouth with the continuing decline in attendance the past few weekends.

About 6500 for twilight racing on Friday and less than 10000 yesterday is not what they want to see. This meet was about getting fans interested in the races as well as improving handle.


Rachel next week and the Haskell will help but the aim of getting new fans to Monmouth has not been successful.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Maybe you think business is booming but Monmouth management does not.

While you sit in Vegas, we, owners and handicappers that have been going to Monmouth for years and years talk and speak with Monmouth management daily.

Your handle summaries mean little to the management at Monmouth with the continuing decline in attendance the past few weekends.

About 6500 for twilight racing on Friday and less than 10000 yesterday is not what they want to see. This meet was about getting fans interested in the races as well as improving handle.


Rachel next week and the Haskell will help but the aim of getting new fans to Monmouth has not been successful.

I'm sure the "we, owners and handicappers" and "management" would rather have 30,000 in attendance and total handle of $2 million instead of 8,000 and $9 million. :bang:

[peakpros]

I'm sure the "we, owners and handicappers" and "management" would rather have 30,000 in attendance and total handle of $2 million instead of 8,000 and $9 million. :bang:


Why can't we have both. What's wrong with a goal of 13000 to 15000 on the weekends. With the increase coming from a new fan base.


Your post shows your short-sightedness of the problem. The key for the future of the sport is new blood.

Even with this wonderful increase to 9MM in handle the track is not making a profit. Enjoy the racing while you can.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Why can't we have both. What's wrong with a goal of 13000 to 15000 on the weekends. With the increase coming from a new fan base.


Your post shows your short-sightedness of the problem. The key for the future of the sport is new blood.

Even with this wonderful increase to 9MM in handle the track is not making a profit. Enjoy the racing while you can.

Your post shows your short-sightedness of the problem.

What good is it to bring new blood into the sport when anybody with a double-digit IQ knows instantly that the game is unbeatable at the ridiculously high takeout rates which suck all the blood from any new prospective long-term customer?

[peakpros]

Your post shows your short-sightedness of the problem.

What good is it to bring new blood into the sport when anybody with a double-digit IQ knows instantly that the game is unbeatable at the ridiculously high takeout rates which suck all the blood from any new prospective long-term customer?


I can't argue about the high takeout issue.



New Blood
Patron Marketing
Take-out
trainer positives
too much racing
small fields

were do you want to start?

Mth chose to start with the last two. Has helped off site handle but has not turn a profit and has done nothing to bring in new fans.

Maybe should have done to lower take-out and yielded a little on the high purses.

I don't know.

But to keep calling the mth meet a success because the overall handle is up is ridiculous. Especially since they readily admit they are not making a profit. And it will get worse with the delining attendance.

They might have done just as well with 4 days of racing (9-10 races a day and a solid increase in purses)and better marketing of the 50 cent pick 5. And the rest of the money could have gone to lower the take-out.

[lamboguy]

peakpros makes good points. the one thing good about monmouth is that they have built in fan base like no other track in the area.

the thing that has brought more people to the place this year is not the increase in purses for allowance and stakes races, but the increases at the bottom. they are having a record number of claims in this year. i had a horse claimed from me there for $12,500 this year and it there was a 9 way shake on the horse. there were claims on 4 other horses in that race. those people that go in and get horses like the one that i had go to the track. the people that won the shake on my horse were the happiest people in the world after the horse won for them the next time she won. they were not from a big outfit either. and they had lots of friends.

[thespaah]

Maybe you think business is booming but Monmouth management does not.

While you sit in Vegas, we, owners and handicappers that have been going to Monmouth for years and years talk and speak with Monmouth management daily.

Your handle summaries mean little to the management at Monmouth with the continuing decline in attendance the past few weekends.

About 6500 for twilight racing on Friday and less than 10000 yesterday is not what they want to see. This meet was about getting fans interested in the races as well as improving handle.


Rachel next week and the Haskell will help but the aim of getting new fans to Monmouth has not been successful.\
Can you provide quoted material from Mth management that supports your claims?
Nothing personal here, but simply stating something without providing a source isn't good enough.
BTW, the weather in the NY Metro are has been appallingly hot and humid this year. Don't think for a second this has not had an adverse affect on attendance.

[lamboguy]

\
Can you provide quoted material from Mth management that supports your claims?
Nothing personal here, but simply stating something without providing a source isn't good enough.
BTW, the weather in the NY Metro are has been appallingly hot and humid this year. Don't think for a second this has not had an adverse affect on attendance.common sense would backup his statement. with the amount of money they are giving away on purses they should expect a minimum of double the handle. like i said before, they would do alot better cutting the purses of the allowance and stake races and increasing the bottom. that is how you build handle. those people with the expensive horses don't show up or bet anyway, why give them all the money?

[peakpros]

\
Can you provide quoted material from Mth management that supports your claims?
Nothing personal here, but simply stating something without providing a source isn't good enough.
BTW, the weather in the NY Metro are has been appallingly hot and humid this year. Don't think for a second this has not had an adverse affect on attendance.

Here's an article where they believe they will have significant gains in attendance and handle.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/monmouth_park_plans_to_offer_1.html

Sorry..the lst few weekends the attendance is just not there.

Also,

There is an article in the Star Ledger today about the Meadowlands.

Near the end of the article they write about monmouth and how great the meet is and the increase in attendance and the handle....but one of the VP's from monmouth states in article that they are not turning a profit.

About the weather...did you forget all the wet weather monmouth had the last two years.

[David-LV]

Maybe you think business is booming but Monmouth management does not.

While you sit in Vegas, we, owners and handicappers that have been going to Monmouth for years and years talk and speak with Monmouth management daily.

Your handle summaries mean little to the management at Monmouth with the continuing decline in attendance the past few weekends.

About 6500 for twilight racing on Friday and less than 10000 yesterday is not what they want to see. This meet was about getting fans interested in the races as well as improving handle.


Rachel next week and the Haskell will help but the aim of getting new fans to Monmouth has not been successful.


I guess it doesn't matter how hard you try they will always be the complainers.

Not successful, I'm wondering who is right, this article did not come out of thin air.

Whopping Increases as Monmouth Nears Midpoint

By Blood-Horse Staff (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/author/blood-horse-staff)
Updated: Friday, July 16, 2010 8:44 AM
Posted: Thursday, July 15, 2010 3:39 PM

With nearly half of Monmouth Park’s $50 million unique summer meet over, the Oceanport, N.J. track reports attendance, wagering and field size all continue to show double-digit or better gains over last year.

For the first 24 days of the 2010 meeting -- with Monmouth racing Fridays, Saturdays, Sundays and Monday holidays -- average attendance is 10,572. The average on-track betting is $752,718 and average daily total betting is $7,672,255.

Compared to the first 24 days of the 2009 meet (using only Friday, Saturday, Sunday and holiday Monday cards), the daily attendance is up 13% and on-track handle is up almost 43%, according to the track. But total handle has taken the sharpest turn, jumping nearly 118% over last year.

For The Rest Of The Story:


http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...oint?source=rss (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/57926/whopping-increases-as-monmouth-nears-midpoint?source=rss)

________
David-LV

MONMOUTH="A SCORE AT THE SHORE."

[David-LV]

Here's an article where they believe they will have significant gains in attendance and handle.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/monmouth_park_plans_to_offer_1.html

Sorry..the lst few weekends the attendance is just not there.

Also,

There is an article in the Star Ledger today about the Meadowlands.

Near the end of the article they write about monmouth and how great the meet is and the increase in attendance and the handle....but one of the VP's from monmouth states in article that they are not turning a profit.

About the weather...did you forget all the wet weather monmouth had the last two years.

The idea this year was to turn things around which I believe Monmouth has done. Baby steps always come before giant steps.

You can not please everybody all at once, but on balance what Monmouth and the State of New Jersey have done so far appear to be mostly positive.

Keep the faith I am sure this year is better then last and hopefully next year will be better then this year.

I can only go on what I see in the Las Vegas racebooks where the interest and betting at Monmouth is up big time.

_________
David-LV

MONMOUTH="A SCORE AT THE SHORE."

[peakpros]

I guess it doesn't matter how hard you try they will always be the complainers.

Not successful, I'm wondering who is right, this article did not come out of thin air.

Whopping Increases as Monmouth Nears Midpoint

By Blood-Horse Staff (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/author/blood-horse-staff)
Updated: Friday, July 16, 2010 8:44 AM
Posted: Thursday, July 15, 2010 3:39 PM

With nearly half of Monmouth Park’s $50 million unique summer meet over, the Oceanport, N.J. track reports attendance, wagering and field size all continue to show double-digit or better gains over last year.

For the first 24 days of the 2010 meeting -- with Monmouth racing Fridays, Saturdays, Sundays and Monday holidays -- average attendance is 10,572. The average on-track betting is $752,718 and average daily total betting is $7,672,255.

Compared to the first 24 days of the 2009 meet (using only Friday, Saturday, Sunday and holiday Monday cards), the daily attendance is up 13% and on-track handle is up almost 43%, according to the track. But total handle has taken the sharpest turn, jumping nearly 118% over last year.

For The Rest Of The Story:


http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...oint?source=rss (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/57926/whopping-increases-as-monmouth-nears-midpoint?source=rss)

________
David-LV

MONMOUTH="A SCORE AT THE SHORE."

Lets see...triple the purses and they get 13% more people. Thats about 3900 extra for the three days. Real impressive?

If I recall they usually got 3000-4000 on weds and thurs when they ran. How many are those from the closed weds/thurs cards?

And a terrific increase in handle? And still they can't turn a profit. And this is with casino money..right?

And the trend lately is attendance is going down last few weekends and Saratoga opens on friday.

[affirmedny]

Here's an article where they believe they will have significant gains in attendance and handle.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/monmouth_park_plans_to_offer_1.html

Sorry..the lst few weekends the attendance is just not there.

Also,

There is an article in the Star Ledger today about the Meadowlands.

Near the end of the article they write about monmouth and how great the meet is and the increase in attendance and the handle....but one of the VP's from monmouth states in article that they are not turning a profit.

About the weather...did you forget all the wet weather monmouth had the last two years.

is it this one?

http://www.nj.com/horse-racing/index.ssf/2010/07/officials_say_monmouth_parks_50_million_summer_tho roughbred_season_a_resounding_success.html

[David-LV]

is it this one?

http://www.nj.com/horse-racing/index.ssf/2010/07/officials_say_monmouth_parks_50_million_summer_tho roughbred_season_a_resounding_success.html

Is this the headline on this article?

"Officials say Monmouth Park's $50 million summer thoroughbred season a resounding success"

________
David-LV

MONMOUTH="A SCORE AT THE SHORE."

[affirmedny]

Is this the headline on this article?

"Officials say Monmouth Park's $50 million summer thoroughbred season a resounding success"

________
David-LV

MONMOUTH="A SCORE AT THE SHORE."

yes, it must be a different management that's not happy.

[David-LV]

Lets see...triple the purses and they get 13% more people. Thats about 3900 extra for the three days. Real impressive?

If I recall they usually got 3000-4000 on weds and thurs when they ran. How many are those from the closed weds/thurs cards?

And a terrific increase in handle? And still they can't turn a profit. And this is with casino money..right?

And the trend lately is attendance is going down last few weekends and Saratoga opens on friday.

It is all about handle now, people are betting from everywhere, those big crowd days at racetracks are pretty much over except for a few special days.

Things will get better, just hang in there.

_________
David-LV

[lamboguy]

It is all about handle now, people are betting from everywhere, those big crowd days at racetracks are pretty much over except for a few special days.

Things will get better, just hang in there.

_________
David-LVthey hardly make anything from simulcast and adw business.

[peakpros]

yes, it must be a different management that's not happy.




Heres something you won't see in the rosy picture the marketing people put out each week.

Taken from todays Star Legder article....

"Revenues at the Meadowlands are expected to drop from $73.4 million last year to $65.5 million in 2010. Monmouth Park is projecting a decline from $38.6 million to $36.8 million.

Losses, meanwhile, continue to mount. The Meadowlands lost $9.9 million last year and is well on the way to losing another $9 million this year. Monmouth Park lost $9.2 million, and will drop another $10.9 million in 2010."




I believe this mth meet was about attracting new fans to the track. It is not successful from that point of view and the numbers are decreasing as the meet goes on.

[David-LV]

they hardly make anything from simulcast and adw business.

Wrong.

__________
David-LV

[lamboguy]

Wrong.

__________
David-LV
wrong? there are places that only pay 3% for signal fees for this monmouth meet. some adw's pay as much as 7%


and don't get me wrong, i am as big a fan of monmouth along with my wife, she has been going there since her mother brought her there as a baby. i want to be the first to tell you that i am wrong and this is a big success. but its not, its an out and out flop. its not monmouth's fault though, they are trying harder than anyone in the game to make a go of this deal. the racing game is dead, DEAD.
it needs more than monmouth to throw outrageous purses out there for bad horses.

[David-LV]

Heres something you won't see in the rosy picture the marketing people put out each week.

Taken from todays Star Legder article....

"Revenues at the Meadowlands are expected to drop from $73.4 million last year to $65.5 million in 2010. Monmouth Park is projecting a decline from $38.6 million to $36.8 million.

Losses, meanwhile, continue to mount. The Meadowlands lost $9.9 million last year and is well on the way to losing another $9 million this year. Monmouth Park lost $9.2 million, and will drop another $10.9 million in 2010."




I believe this mth meet was about attracting new fans to the track. It is not successful from that point of view and the numbers are decreasing as the meet goes on.

You conveniently forgot to include a quote from the end of that article in the Star Ledger which said:


Quote:

Early indications suggest the plan is working far better than anyone imagined.

"Monmouth is making more money, not only thru the window, but a substantial increase in our handle," said Dennis Robinson, the authority’s president and CEO. "The average daily attendance is up over 12 percent."

They are getting better quality competition, and fuller fields for each race, which drives up wagering. Lennon Register, the authority’s senior vice president of racing, said the renewed attention on racing at Monmouth has also made the track’s simulcast feed more attractive to out-of-state bettors, which is further driving up revenues.

"We’re not profitable yet, but the groundwork has been laid for it to be profitable," suggested Robinson, who said they are now studying whether to implement similar changes at the Meadowlands Racetrack.

Whether they will be able to try will largely depend on the report now sitting on the governor’s desk.


_________

David-LV

MONMOUTH="A SCORE AT THE SHORE."

[peakpros]

You conveniently forgot to include a quote from the end of that article in the Star Ledger which said:


Quote:

Early indications suggest the plan is working far better than anyone imagined.

"Monmouth is making more money, not only thru the window, but a substantial increase in our handle," said Dennis Robinson, the authority’s president and CEO. "The average daily attendance is up over 12 percent."

They are getting better quality competition, and fuller fields for each race, which drives up wagering. Lennon Register, the authority’s senior vice president of racing, said the renewed attention on racing at Monmouth has also made the track’s simulcast feed more attractive to out-of-state bettors, which is further driving up revenues.

"We’re not profitable yet, but the groundwork has been laid for it to be profitable," suggested Robinson, who said they are now studying whether to implement similar changes at the Meadowlands Racetrack.

Whether they will be able to try will largely depend on the report now sitting on the governor’s desk.


_________

David-LV

MONMOUTH="A SCORE AT THE SHORE."


What I had said along is that in spite of your daily handle blasts is that monmouth is still not profitable and that the attendance has been declining the past few weekends.

And the people that i see everyday at the track recognize this, including owners and management. And what they are disappointed most with is the lack of sustained attendance growth.

Its not all about a signal for you to have a product to bet on in LV. Its about a NJ place place that brings revenue and jobs (and not only for the horseman) to an area that is dying.

But hey, you got that great handle to highlight every day. The one that costs a fortune to generate and still does not insure a profit. Governors going to love that.

[David-LV]

What I had said along is that in spite of your daily handle blasts is that monmouth is still not profitable and that the attendance has been declining the past few weekends.

And the people that i see everyday at the track recognize this, including owners and management. And what they are disappointed most with is the lack of sustained attendance growth.

Its not all about a signal for you to have a product to bet on in LV. Its about a NJ place place that brings revenue and jobs (and not only for the horseman) to an area that is dying.

But hey, you got that great handle to highlight every day. The one that costs a fortune to generate and still does not insure a profit. Governors going to love that.

One small step for horse players and then maybe one giant step for all concerned.

Maybe I'm dumb, but I still don't get it.

Are you saying that Monmouth should have done nothing to try and revive their business, would that have been a better solution?


_________
David-LV

MONMOUTH="A SCORE AT THE SHORE."

[peakpros]

One small step for horse players and then maybe one giant step for all concerned.

Are you saying that Monmouth should have done nothing to try and revive their business, would that have been a better solution?


_________
David-LV

MONMOUTH="A SCORE AT THE SHORE."


I have my opinions on what should have been done. (And don't think for a second I thought nothing should be done.)

But what is not ever mentioned here is that many NJ horseman were not in favor of this plan. And they were not queried as to what should be part of the solution. Do you think the horseman wanted half the number of racing days. Is that a small step to them?

I am in favor of less dates and better racing and fuller fields.

And bringing more money into the purses will do that. But the track was not ready for an all in bet... "we are plunging into the deep end of the best racing in the US pool by throwing out tons of money".

Spreading some of the money to marketing, lowering prices, ($10 to valet to see 5K claimers?), better picnic area, better play area, improved family fun days, better food at better prices, giveaways, would all be good starts.

[thespaah]

The idea this year was to turn things around which I believe Monmouth has done. Baby steps always come before giant steps.

You can not please everybody all at once, but on balance what Monmouth and the State of New Jersey have done so far appear to be mostly positive.

Keep the faith I am sure this year is better then last and hopefully next year will be better then this year.

I can only go on what I see in the Las Vegas racebooks where the interest and betting at Monmouth is up big time.

_________
David-LV

MONMOUTH="A SCORE AT THE SHORE."
In reading the comments regarding this matter, it appeares there are those who do not want Monmouth to be successful.

[The_Knight_Sky]

And the people that i see everyday at the track recognize this, including owners and management. And what they are disappointed most with is the lack of sustained attendance growth.



http://i25.tinypic.com/35lhj6p.jpg

I agree to a point.
The July heatwave has in no small part affected the on-track crowd the past few weekends. Last Friday was the most uncomfortably muggy day I had ever experienced. I'm glad the jockeys decided to hang in there till the very end.

At the inception of this experiment it was revealed that the instead of putting major money into marketing, they put the money in the purse program. The idea was to get the product to sell. Well it has - nationally.

Locally, they can better allocate their resources for next summer and there will be an Elite Summer Meet in some form in 2011. It is difficult to fathom that there won't be.

The seeds have been planted for an advertising blitz for a "nationally significant" thoroughbred racing meet. Next year I'd assume that the budget for Marketing will be increased significantly and they do have something to sell. It would have been plain silly to heavily market this year not knowing how the experiment would be received nationally.

The main thing is that newcomers to the track bet little early on. NJSEA focused on the established bettors instead. They waited for the fastball, saw the seams and have made solid contact. But a reminder it's the only the 5th inning folks ! ;)

[alhattab]

In reading the comments regarding this matter, it appeares there are those who do not want Monmouth to be successful.

I'm sure you're correct, but I didn't see anything in this thread that would lead me to your conclusion.

Like Lambo, I want Monmouth to be successful. Very selfishly, I need it to be successful. Monmouth is basically in my backyard. It is very convenient and I love the place.

But Peakpros is in my view correct. The last few weekends have been weak attendance and on-track handle wise. Before the meet Kulina was talking about recapturing "lapsed fans". Well, guess what? Other than opening day, they haven't come back. This despite significant free marketing in the press (Monmouth otherwise doesn't market much). And whoever posted about weather last year is also right, it rained every June weekend last year, except the last one. Every weekend. Now this year it has been oppressively hot for the past 3 weeks or so, and everyone is at the beach. One unusual thing about Monmouth though is that while handle suffers when it rains, attendance may actually get a boost by vacationers having nothing to do. Rainy weekend days can be some of the most energetic in the building, but nobody's betting much they're just drinking a few beers and having a good time.

Anyway, they couldn't possibly be happy with the on-track numbers to date. They may say (and it may actually be true) that the weather was the biggest factor in not growing this to the extent desired. But it doesn't mean that they shouldn't be unhappy with the figures. I don't know how they could be. UN Day was ok- I think on track handle was up 15-20%- but attendance was off. The overall figs were also helped significantly by a dry Father's Day (24k on track) compared to less than 19k during last year's washout. So of course when the numbers come out they will look better, and mgt will point out how the heat negatively affected the results, but of course they won't say that the comparisons are easy because of how awful weather was on some big weekends like Father's Day and Haskell Day.

[Vinman]

Lets see...triple the purses and they get 13% more people. Thats about 3900 extra for the three days. Real impressive?

If I recall they usually got 3000-4000 on weds and thurs when they ran. How many are those from the closed weds/thurs cards?

And a terrific increase in handle? And still they can't turn a profit. And this is with casino money..right?

And the trend lately is attendance is going down last few weekends and Saratoga opens on friday.

I've been a regular at Monmouth since 1974. I also live 5 minutes from the Favorites OTW restaurant in Woodbridge which opened in October of 2007.

The parking lot at Favorites is jam packed packed on most days, especially on Fri/Sat/Sun, much to the displeasure of the other merchants that occupy the strip mall at the corner of Rt 1 and Ford Ave. The success of the Favorites locations in Woodbridge and Toms River, as well as the first one that opened in Vineland has undoubtedly led to a permanent attendance decline at Momnouth.

As much as I still love going to Monmouth, I for one don't go there nearly as often as I once did. Monmouth now charges $4.00 for grandstand parking, $5 for clubhouse parking......plus admission. It costs zero for parking & admission at any of the Favorites OTW's. The point here is not to knock Monmouth, but to point out that there are reasons why the live attendance is not what it was a few years ago. The attendance in the last few weeks has especially dipped for one simple reason.....it's too damn hot.

When you include phone and online wagering it becomes apparent that the most accurate way to access the success of the "Elite Summer Meet" when all is said and done is by analyzing the betting handle, not live attendance.

Vinman

[PaceAdvantage]

You keep creating new threads, and I just might have to send Monmouth a bill for all this free advertising.

Is there any reason all these "handle" threads couldn't have condensed into one?

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm probably going to labeled a "complainer" now, aren't I?

Shucks.

[Robert Goren]

One small step for horse players and then maybe one giant step for all concerned.

Maybe I'm dumb, but I still don't get it.

Are you saying that Monmouth should have done nothing to try and revive their business, would that have been a better solution?


_________
David-LV

MONMOUTH="A SCORE AT THE SHORE." If you don't get it, maybe you are dumb. This business model had no shot from day one. There are other things they could have done to save NJ racing while they had this one time infusion of cash. I have stated over and over again that no plan to save a race track can succeed in the long run without drastic cuts in the takeout rates. I have seen nothing in NJ or any place else to change my mind. All in all, the Monmouth experiment was a great opportunity lost. Just plain sad.

[The_Knight_Sky]

All in all, the Monmouth experiment was a great opportunity lost.

Just plain sad.




You seem to be an opinionated sort.

So starting from day one with a final year of $30 million in subsidies
for the calendar year 2010 in your pocket...
how would you have marketed horse racing in New Jersey and presented it?


I am interested in the specific changes that may have worked out better.

[lamboguy]

monmouth did $7.5 million yesterday sunday with a nice 12 race card, belmont did over $8 million with not such a great card. on saturday, monmouth did less than $9 million on 12 great races. on friday they did $7.5 million on a 12 race program. total it up and monmouth did $24 million for the week. last year monmouth will 50% less purses were doing about $20 million for the week.


monmouth sure tries hard, but as you can see monmouth is not the problem, its the game. the whole game. and nothing but the game. this experiment was a great idea, but i don't think it was or will be a success. when saratoga opens up next week i will be curious as to what happens at monmouth. sartatoga will not take a back seat to nothing. i promise you that. they will do at least $15 million on saturdays with or without monmouth.

[Kimsus]

With Saratoga just around the corner these numbers will probably drop, just how much is anyone's guess; however it is imporant to note, The Spa averaged 14.3 in handle in 09 where Monmouth only 3.1.

[Robert Goren]

You seem to be an opinionated sort.

So starting from day one with a final year of $30 million in subsidies
for the calendar year 2010 in your pocket...
how would you have marketed horse racing in New Jersey and presented it?


I am interested in the specific changes that may have worked out better. I don't know how many times I have said it. I would have cut the takeout rates a lot. I don't think anything has the slightest chance of succeeding without doing that. It is all about the game, not the sport.

[onefast99]

monmouth did $7.5 million yesterday sunday with a nice 12 race card, belmont did over $8 million with not such a great card. on saturday, monmouth did less than $9 million on 12 great races. on friday they did $7.5 million on a 12 race program. total it up and monmouth did $24 million for the week. last year monmouth will 50% less purses were doing about $20 million for the week.


monmouth sure tries hard, but as you can see monmouth is not the problem, its the game. the whole game. and nothing but the game. this experiment was a great idea, but i don't think it was or will be a success. when saratoga opens up next week i will be curious as to what happens at monmouth. sartatoga will not take a back seat to nothing. i promise you that. they will do at least $15 million on saturdays with or without monmouth.
I think the Vans Warped Tour concert hurt those trying to get to MP yesterday the Parkway was backed up for 45 miles and rt 36 was at a standstill. This tour of musicians generally brings in a very young crowd from 12 years of age and up. I don't think many of those in attendance at this concert could care less about the horse races or for that matter betting on them!

[rrbauer]

You seem to be an opinionated sort.

So starting from day one with a final year of $30 million in subsidies
for the calendar year 2010 in your pocket...
how would you have marketed horse racing in New Jersey and presented it?


I am interested in the specific changes that may have worked out better.

Here's some changes that need to be made.

Get someone competent to report scratches and changes via their web site. EVERY day there are omissions...and not just one or two. When I complained I was told that it was "hard" to keep them up to date. Huh? Then the guy told me to let him know if it didn't improve. Huh? Who does this challenged employee work for anyway? Even though they're not listed on the web site, if I go to an ADW and look at their "programs" the changes/scratches are there. How does that happen?

They are doing a HORRIBLE job managing their "off" times in relation to the stated post time (even the revised, stated post times). I would say the average delay between the stated post time and the off time is close to 4 minutes. Can't recall a track (maybe the old Agua Caliente) where they screwed around so much before getting a race started.

A lot of plus-marks for the current meet, but these two items are abominations.

[onefast99]

Here's some changes that need to be made.

Get someone competent to report scratches and changes via their web site. EVERY day there are omissions...and not just one or two. When I complained I was told that it was "hard" to keep them up to date. Huh? Then the guy told me to let him know if it didn't improve. Huh? Who does this challenged employee work for anyway? Even though they're not listed on the web site, if I go to an ADW and look at their "programs" the changes/scratches are there. How does that happen?

They are doing a HORRIBLE job managing their "off" times in relation to the stated post time (even the revised, stated post times). I would say the average delay between the stated post time and the off time is close to 4 minutes. Can't recall a track (maybe the old Agua Caliente) where they screwed around so much before getting a race started.

A lot of plus-marks for the current meet, but these two items are abominations.
The gate crew seems to be very slow this year. If you look at the races where there are 9 or more horses in them the time it takes to load is well past the posted start time for that race.

[peakpros]

I think the Vans Warped Tour concert hurt those trying to get to MP yesterday the Parkway was backed up for 45 miles and rt 36 was at a standstill. This tour of musicians generally brings in a very young crowd from 12 years of age and up. I don't think many of those in attendance at this concert could care less about the horse races or for that matter betting on them!

Just another example of the horse player taking a back seat.

[alhattab]

With Saratoga just around the corner these numbers will probably drop, just how much is anyone's guess; however it is imporant to note, The Spa averaged 14.3 in handle in 09 where Monmouth only 3.1.

Anecdotally, I believe Mth's numbers have historically ncreased during Saratoga. Different circumstances this year I understand but historically I don't believe Mth has seen declines when the Spa started up. Mth could benefit from even more people interested in playing during the Spa meet and with 30 or so minutes between races there is time to fit another track in.

On the Warped Tour, I like the fact the track hosts events like this as it is a big venue capable of doing so. However, they should just not have live racing on the date.

On the off-times, Kulina mentioned in some forum that Mth and NYRA were trying to coordinate off times better. I wonder if that is the reason for the stall tactics. As I have said before, the most significant independent variable driving Mth handle is not purse $, not quality of horse, not field size- it is the proximity of the off time to NYRA's off time. This may be less true in 2010 but was certainly true in the past. Trust me on this or go do a study- I look at this all the time just never captured the numbers in a spreadsheet.

[PaceAdvantage]

They are doing a HORRIBLE job managing their "off" times in relation to the stated post time (even the revised, stated post times). I would say the average delay between the stated post time and the off time is close to 4 minutes. Can't recall a track (maybe the old Agua Caliente) where they screwed around so much before getting a race started.Now why would a track look to delay their start times...more handle perhaps? They've set goals and quotas they would like to meet I would assume...what better way to pad those numbers than to keep the windows open as long as possible?

After all, we all know how much money seems to flow into the pools at the last second these days...

[alhattab]

As I have said before, the most significant independent variable driving Mth handle is not purse $, not quality of horse, not field size- it is the proximity of the off time to NYRA's off time. This may be less true in 2010 but was certainly true in the past. Trust me on this or go do a study- I look at this all the time just never captured the numbers in a spreadsheet.

Sorry I should've said the most significant independent variable driving "variability" around Mth handle (i.e., deviation from the mean). Obviously this year's changes in purses and field sizes have made a difference. But I think if you took the pain to look at variability around average per-race handle you would see proximity to NYRA post time is a (the most?) significant driver.

[Robert Goren]

They would not be the first track to delay start times in an attempt to get more handle. They will not be last either.

[lamboguy]

everyone wants to complain about takeout. i pay less now than what i ever paid with rebates. i would forgoe my rebate to get a clean bell though. i lose more after the bell rings than what they give me in rebate. i know that is the reason because 30 years ago i won every year without a rebate, today i lose every year for the past 10. i probably have lost over $5 million in the last 10 years before the rebate. someone would say that its the person on the other side of my bets that are smarter than myself because they are using computer generated plays, and i am all in by hand. i ask myself this question all the time, did i get worse, or did the others get better. i honestly think that the majority of all "programmed plays" are going to underacheive my ability to pick winners. so my conclusion is that there is so much after the bell activity that i cannot overcome that is doing me in. if its doing me in, it also has to be doing in the guys with the programmed plays. if that is indeed what is happening, the end result is less handles in the pools, which i believe is where we are today.

[Jasonm921]

One small step for horse players and then maybe one giant step for all concerned.

Maybe I'm dumb, but I still don't get it.

Are you saying that Monmouth should have done nothing to try and revive their business, would that have been a better solution?


_________
David-LV

MONMOUTH="A SCORE AT THE SHORE."


That's the NYRA business model.... :bang:

[comet52]

Unless you can design some sort of instantaneous WAN that encompasses the entire tote system, the lag in odds updating will always be there. Or you could adopt the proposal I've heard from some on this board - advocate for cutting off bets 1 or 2 minutes prior to post... so they then could bet into an uncertain number at that time instead of at post, lol.

everyone wants to complain about takeout. i pay less now than what i ever paid with rebates. i would forgoe my rebate to get a clean bell though. i lose more after the bell rings than what they give me in rebate. i know that is the reason because 30 years ago i won every year without a rebate, today i lose every year for the past 10. i probably have lost over $5 million in the last 10 years before the rebate. someone would say that its the person on the other side of my bets that are smarter than myself because they are using computer generated plays, and i am all in by hand. i ask myself this question all the time, did i get worse, or did the others get better. i honestly think that the majority of all "programmed plays" are going to underacheive my ability to pick winners. so my conclusion is that there is so much after the bell activity that i cannot overcome that is doing me in. if its doing me in, it also has to be doing in the guys with the programmed plays. if that is indeed what is happening, the end result is less handles in the pools, which i believe is where we are today.

[Kimsus]

Anecdotally, I believe Mth's numbers have historically ncreased during Saratoga. Different circumstances this year I understand but historically I don't believe Mth has seen declines when the Spa started up. Mth could benefit from even more people interested in playing during the Spa meet and with 30 or so minutes between races there is time to fit another track in.

On the Warped Tour, I like the fact the track hosts events like this as it is a big venue capable of doing so. However, they should just not have live racing on the date.

On the off-times, Kulina mentioned in some forum that Mth and NYRA were trying to coordinate off times better. I wonder if that is the reason for the stall tactics. As I have said before, the most significant independent variable driving Mth handle is not purse $, not quality of horse, not field size- it is the proximity of the off time to NYRA's off time. This may be less true in 2010 but was certainly true in the past. Trust me on this or go do a study- I look at this all the time just never captured the numbers in a spreadsheet.

Makes sense, they could feed off each other. If you are watching on simulcast waiting 25mins between races is far too lengthy. This would lessen wait times.

[Hanover1]

NJ,com reporting a projected loss of 10M this year for Monmouth Park, and as a result, may be abolished under a plan that includes Meadowlands. A sweeping act the Governor is initiating to reform gaming in the state. Log onto NJ.com, see cover story *Dated today, 7/20