What handicapper/author influenced you

[Trotman]

I was wondering who was the handicapper/author which got you interested in horse racing and from that point the evolution to where you are today.

[Overlay]

Initial interest: Ainslie

Greatest influence: Quirin (switched me from a qualitative, elimination-style, "pick-the-winner" orientation to a full-field, statistical, wagering-value perspective)

[ManeMediaMogul]

In order of appearance:

My father, my uncle, Andy Beyer, Jeff Siegel, Gordon Jones, Joshua Shelley, Marty Ritt and Gary Hallman.

[markgoldie]

Beyer. The revolution began with "Picking Winners," which was 1975ish, but which has only picked up steam through the years. The basic idea of breaking a horse's performance down to accurate numbers, creating pars for distance and surface, has never been stronger than right now. We have expanded it to pace as well as final time scenarios, but the original idea is his.

In subsequent books, Beyer gave unique insights into how real professionals attack the game. Probably the most useful topics here were track biases and trip handicapping.

To his credit, he can admit that he was wrong and has done so in print. The most famous case involves his initial belief that pace did not affect final performance. Just from memory, he initially said something like: The idea that if a horse went two-fifths of a second slower around the last turn would allow him to go two-fifths of a second faster at the wire is ridiculous. And he later admitted that his statement was wrong; that speed of pace does significantly affect performance.

As I have mentioned before here, to my knowledge he has never publicly corrected his other major theoretical mistake: namely that the class level in which a horse competes will not affect his final-speed performance. There is overwhelming evidence that this is incorrect. For example, a $10,000 claimer who is thrust into allowance company will not only get beaten by more lengths, he will run slower than he would have in his own class.

Other major contributors to the discussion are Quirin, Quinn, and Giles who have introduced the concept of running styles, race shapes, and "pace comfort zones." This is a key theory, the merits of which are beyond dispute.

Be interesting to see who else the posters will single out.

[TEJAS KIDD]

My father, Ron Cox, Tim Osterman, Dan Montillion, a couple of other guys that wouldnt want to be named in a public forum and years of trial and err (about 10 years)
No authors or books involved.
I figured if a guy was writing a book about the subject, 1. He wasnt beating the game and needed some sort of income. or 2. The masses were going to read the book and use the same methods, therefore creating undervalued wagers.

[gl45]

Author, Ray Taulbot

[Robert Goren]

Ira S Cohen

[melman]

Mark====Bob Pandolfo. To me without question this man has been and still is the "real deal". "Pandy" back in the day had me running and I do mean running to get the Sports Eye as soon as it came out. The number of longshot winners that he had IN PRINT long before the start of the race from the 8 hole was amazing. He really got me into the harness game. I think it is really great for people who want to look into the harness game to be able to read his old and current articles for FREE at the USTA homepage. I just wish Pandy had followed thru and written that book. :D I don't know your thinking on the subject Mark but I really agree with Pandy on how speed has really become the first order of business in handicapping a race. IMO in today's game it's even more important then ever.

[JBmadera]

Beyer, Cramer and Ken Massa.

[markgoldie]

Mark====Bob Pandolfo. To me without question this man has been and still is the "real deal". "Pandy" back in the day had me running and I do mean running to get the Sports Eye as soon as it came out. The number of longshot winners that he had IN PRINT long before the start of the race from the 8 hole was amazing. He really got me into the harness game. I think it is really great for people who want to look into the harness game to be able to read his old and current articles for FREE at the USTA homepage. I just wish Pandy had followed thru and written that book. :D I don't know your thinking on the subject Mark but I really agree with Pandy on how speed has really become the first order of business in handicapping a race. IMO in today's game it's even more important then ever.
Mel: We're kinda on the wrong side of the tracks here, but yes, if you archive my posts on "the dark side," you'll see that I'm the consumate early-speed capper. Also, transposing t-bred race-style designations to h-racing is instructive. In both sports, E and E/P types dominate the win-percentage stats, with P-types less so and S-types bringing up the rear. Unfortunately, in h-racing, race shapes aren't as predictable.

Agree that Pandy is a knowledgable guy and a good place for those interesed in h-racing to start.

[Red God]

Cramer, Mitchell and Davidowitz

[furlong]

Beyer, Brohamer, Meadow, and Jim Lehane(great little book)

[illinoisbred]

My father, Ron Cox, Tim Osterman, Dan Montillion, a couple of other guys that wouldnt want to be named in a public forum and years of trial and err (about 10 years)
No authors or books involved.
I figured if a guy was writing a book about the subject, 1. He wasnt beating the game and needed some sort of income. or 2. The masses were going to read the book and use the same methods, therefore creating undervalued wagers.
I agree With you Tejas Kidd regarding book writing. Having said that,I'd give the nod to Davidowitz' Betting Thorobreds as far as books go. That book offers food for thought on a variety of ways to approach the game-all with some merit. His take on trainer patterns-clipping winners and looking for similarities still seems like a better approach than fitting results in preconceived categories.

Other big influences-my Father, Scott McMannis, The complete set of seminar tapes issued years ago by Len Ragozin/Len Friedman.

[PhantomOnTour]

Without a doubt it is William Quirin. Ditto what a previous poster said about him. A single book of his advanced my knowledge and success by miles.

[only11]

Cramer.

[Sericm]

The first book I ever bought on Handicapping was :

Bob Heberts Secrets of Handicapping in 1963 when it was published.
He had chapters on speed handicapping that pre-dated Beyer by 12 years.
I still have the book, he has a chapter with speed charts for allowance, stakes, claiming and two year olds. Also how to construct a track variant.

The three most influential authors for me was the aforementioned
Bob Hebert, Gordon Jones and of course Andy Beyer.

In Handicapping I believe you first have to identify the fastest horses and then add in other factors.

[DJofSD]

Biggest influences came from the PIRCO group.

[Steve 'StatMan']

In order, Tom Ainslie, Bill Quirin, Steve Davidowitz, Scott McMannis.

[GaryG]

Ray Taulbot, Huey Mahl, Gordon Jones

[BlueShoe]

Most influential, by far, was Louis G. Holloway. Others that had inpact on my evolution as a capper were Taulbot, Ainslie, Hebert, Cohen & Stevens, Jones, William Scott, and several others that had perhaps a more minor influence. Am sure that I left someone important out that I will recall shortly.

[DJofSD]

Louis G. Holloway -- who's that?

[46zilzal]

OUTSIDE the box is where you have to be in this game.

New Think: The Use of Lateral Thinking Edward de Bono

Fooled by Randomness: The Hidden Role of Chance in the Markets and in Life, by Nassim Taleb.

The Drunkard's Walk: How Randomness Rules Our Lives, Leonard Mlodinow

Blink, Malcolm Gladwell

[jnchapel]

Tom Ainslie (everything), James Quinn (class), Steve Davidowitz (key races), Huey Mahl (pace).

[bisket]

ainslie, beyer, and most of all my uncle. who never wrote a book, but the other two were still looking up at him in my eyes.

[kenwoodall2]

Ada Kuleck.

[broadreach]

Mitchell

[JohnGalt1]

The first handicapping book I bought was Bob McKnight's "Eliminate the losers". His method would still work, except back in "60's when it was written horses ran more frequently. It was with this book that I "handicapped my first winner.

I have followed the methods, with some tweaking, of William L. Scott's "Total Victory at the Track" for his Performance Class Ratings, which few handicapper's use.

I make Hambleton pace figures from the book "Pace makes the Race" by Howard Sartin, et al.

I select the pace lines using the guidelines from "Handicapping Magic" by Michael Pizolla.

I have read and used ideas from Davidowitz, Beyer, and other published authors.

I've even "stolen" I mean borrowed ideas I've read here.

[RaceBookJoe]

Louis G. Holloway -- who's that?

Lou Holloway was by far the most influential to me also. I have read and own most everything Lou ever wrote...my dad was a friend/customer of his. Even though his approach was old-school...his main focus was class and speed ratings. Every time i open a form, the first thing i do is figure a Lou Holloway speed and pace rating. Even though i have morphed into more modern ways of handicapping...Holloway's influence comes first to me and I always use his money management approach, which while sometimes slow, has never failed me. The money management that i learned kind of morphs into the "grinder" thread...i used to have 3 "banks" going at a time...one each for win,place and show....the main forms of betting back in the 70's.
After Lou and my dad....i enjoyed the book written by Scott Flohr, again old-school but influential. Brohamer/Beyer opened my eyes to more involved pace and speed and an idea about how to handicap turf....which when i first started wasnt as mainstream as it is now. rbj
ps : writings by holloway included " Nevada Gaming Guide " early 60's ( which included his tote-all system , "The Talking Tote" 1957? , the "show off" system 1970 , writings in Systems and Methods and numerous other newsletter-type writings.

[turfnsport]

Hank Goldberg. ;)

[DJofSD]

Hank Goldberg. ;)
:lol:

[Johnny V]

My first book on handicapping was How To Win Money At The Races by Nate Perlmutter. I was a teenager at the time. From there it was Ainslie and so on. The most influential for me were first Quirin and then Beyer.

[Donnie]

Who began it all: Muzzi Scardino
Who influenced me: Howard Sartin and his feet-per-second software program in Racing Action Newspaper (programmed into a Radio Shack Tandy handheld)
Who satisfies me when I'm jonesing: Ken Massa

[nalley0710]

Scott McMannis and the guys in the the rebel enclave at the Chicago tracks including Steve Miller. They helped me to avoid most of the mistakes and concentrate on the important things from the very beginning. These are the guys maligned in Ted McCleland's Horseplayers Life At The Track, in my opinion unjustly.

[Stillriledup]

Ainslie was the first author i read when i was a kid. Lots of credit to my greatness goes to him.

[Greyfox]

Lots of credit to my greatness goes to him.

Ainslie's book was excellent. But your greatness??:rolleyes: Compared to whom?

[TheBid9]

Beyer
Davidowitz
Quirin
Mitchell

[Robert Fischer]

father - helped to develop a mastery of seeing and understanding sports. Introduced me to horse racing. Won enough to have some memorable experiences.

an online mentor - shared with me his insight into evaluating races.

paceadvantage.com as a whole - many members have contributed info that has streamlined my online process, and several members have helped with this or that regarding specifics of relevant mathematics. Did I mention the my buddy PA??:cool:

[trackrat59]

My parents had these friends that would "go to the races". I'm going back to about 1960 here. I was told that they were my Uncles. As a little girl I always LOVED going to the track to see my Uncles and watch the horses run around the track.

A couple of years went by and I realized that they were really not my Uncles and that they gambled a lot on horses. I remember thinking how cool they were. I wanted to be just like them. They taught me a lot about how to read a racing form, how to bet, and about money management. (no kidding)

Then I got a little bit older as a few more years went by. That's when I realized just how hot Uncle Richie was. ;)

So here's to mom, dad, Uncles Richie, Natie, Danny, and Morty. :ThmbUp:

My mom and dad are both gone now and God only knows what ever happened to my Uncles. Many thanks to all of them.

[appistappis]

randolph reynolds

[jelly]

None.

[Hajck Hillstrom]

Mark Cramer

[jamey1977]

Mark Cramer
2003 I was so pissed off. I lost 500 dollars at Del Mar again. Just chasing losses, no structure and I went to The Arcadia Library and found Dick Mitchell's Commonsense Betting. So well written, he encouraged me. He wrote the goal is 25 percent winners at 10 dollars average and it will be reached no matter what. I loved the confidence in his statements and I learned that this game could be beaten. No one ever encouraged me. They ( meaning every one I have frickin known inside and outside of Horseracing ) all said Horseplayers are losers , who die broke with no shirts on their back. Only Dick Mitchell encouraged me. I owe him a lot. My own methods have been developed on my own. He even said to develop your own methods. All of his books are great. Who else gave us encouragement. Every fricking handicapper and writer always wants us to have a 10 percent net. My goal isn't a 10 percent net. I might as well work at Taco Bell, for a lousy 10 percent net. Thanks Dick Mitchell

[The Judge]

Beyer, Mitchell and Company, Cramer, Wm Scott, Quirin, Quinn, Sartin Group (PIRCO),Berry Meadow, and Ron Cox .

Tejas Kidd you got to be from the Bay Area I am familiar with all those guys.

[eastie]

Sal Carcia, Jim Rowan, Danny Coughlin, JJ Kelly Jr. Dom Impressia, Joe The Teach, Del Mar Moe, Larry "Legend" Gordon, Harvey Pack, Little Andy.

[KingChas]

A shot of Scott,A shot of Beyer,A shot Quinn,
mixed with a crazy Cramer straw and old age.

[dav4463]

Too many to count. As I read each book, system, etc., I took something from each one and then decided if I want to use it or not. I only remember one book that was a complete waste of time to read. I got something from almost all of them.

[Actor]

William L. Scott's Investing at the Race Track got me interested. It was in the financial section at Waldenbooks of all places. I've also found Beyer's Picking Winners in the financial section. I never had much luck with Scott's method but it got me interested. Before that I would occasionally go to the track but stay away from the windows, which I considered to be the equivalent of a slot machine.

The author that influenced me the most is William Quirin, who has his mathematical act together.

[Ocala Mike]

Easy...Damon Runyon with his take on the scriptures:

"The race is not always to the swift nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet."


Ocala Mike

[therussmeister]

OUTSIDE the box is where you have to be in this game.

New Think: The Use of Lateral Thinking Edward de Bono

Fooled by Randomness: The Hidden Role of Chance in the Markets and in Life, by Nassim Taleb.

The Drunkard's Walk: How Randomness Rules Our Lives, Leonard Mlodinow

Blink, Malcolm Gladwell
:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

To this list I add How the Mind Works, Steven Pinker

[Fingal]

When the old PRN started talking about this Howard Sartin guy with a yellow manual.

There are several after, but he started me on my close to 30 year journey.

[Trotman]

At this point Ainslie, Taulbot, Quirin, Beyer, Jones, Quinn, Davidowitz, Cramer and the Pirco Group which had many as posted Sartin, Mahl, Brohammer, Massa, Pizzola and on and on. Taulbot probably brought to light pace handicapping which most got their start, in fact many of the above admitted that it was Taulbot's work that made them look deeper. But by the answers I suspect most here find the value of pace handicapping.

[ldiatone]

Mitchell
me too

[BlueShoe]

Louis G. Holloway -- who's that?
Will add a bit more to the reply of RBJ. LGH was very active in the 60's, less so in the 70's. He published monthly newsletters and bulletins and authored many short pamphlet sized works on racing and casino games plus a few ledger sized research manuals. He was the consumer advocate of his day. Back then, mail order system sellers were very active, pushing methods that the seller claimed would show large, steady profits. Holloway would analyze and review them for his bulletin readers and dubunk them as mostly hokum. He pushed very hard on the value of research and discipline, and about how hard it was to profit from speculation at the track or casino. Very down to earth, he published many good ideas of his own. Still have stuff that he published nearly half a century ago. Often have wished that I had stuck to mostly what I learned from him long ago instead of going off on a tangent of my own. Mr. Holloway passed away in the early 80's.

[thaskalos]

Andy Beyer supplied me with the inspiration to get involved in this game...but David Sklansky (a poker author), was the one that taught me the most about playing the right way.

He convinced me that successful gambling is all about making the right decisions, and keeping your composure when the tides turn against you.

[banacek]

Andy Beyer, Glendon Jones, and Steve Davidowitz

[jonnielu]

Chuck Berndt - He never wrote any books, he just made his living at the windows for the last 50 years or so. He'd be 85 now, and has been America's #1 analyst most of that time.

jdl

[RaceBookJoe]

Will add a bit more to the reply of RBJ. LGH was very active in the 60's, less so in the 70's. He published monthly newsletters and bulletins and authored many short pamphlet sized works on racing and casino games plus a few ledger sized research manuals. He was the consumer advocate of his day. Back then, mail order system sellers were very active, pushing methods that the seller claimed would show large, steady profits. Holloway would analyze and review them for his bulletin readers and dubunk them as mostly hokum. He pushed very hard on the value of research and discipline, and about how hard it was to profit from speculation at the track or casino. Very down to earth, he published many good ideas of his own. Still have stuff that he published nearly half a century ago. Often have wished that I had stuck to mostly what I learned from him long ago instead of going off on a tangent of my own. Mr. Holloway passed away in the early 80's.

I believe he died around 1978. I remember my dad being saddened by his passing. GBC had a publication called " The Overlay " and i have the one that has the news of his passing...will try to verify. GBC also had a picture of him hanging on the wall at the original place ( they now have a newer location than the "new" location they moved to...i believe its on Eastern now. ). Lou had a heart problem for many years, thats what finally did him in and the reason why he stopped gambling as much. His book "Full Time Gambler" is a book i read at least once a year.

Lou's monthly newsletters were a hoot sometimes....he rips other systems apart, gives good points on other systems..one time he even offered his home that overlooked Del Mar. Like said above, research was a huge thing to him, and he did his own, logging hundreds of thousands of spins of the roulette wheel, turns of the cards and race after race. His big horse plays were win and place, but had a neat little show system that did decent until inflation made the cost of living too much for a show system to be worth it.

In 1939 he played an entire meet ( at a profit ) just by using the toteboard...which led to his writing of " The Talking Tote " . I cant say he was the first, but i havent seen earlier writings on speed figures,pace, track variants and lots of other ideas that are popular. I still use Lou's speed ratings first and then compare them with the Beyer figs...sometimes they are in line, other times way off...for better or worse. Usually when there is a difference it is in the LGH pace rating...again for better or worse...not nearly as accurate as a Sartin or CJ type fig..but an ok quick fig. But when you consider that this method was long before Beyer...it was incredibly accurate, and the prices kicked butt. rbj

[pandy]

Mel and Mark, thank you, nice to be mentioned in the same forum with names like Beyer, et all.

In terms of race-shapes, this is the biggest problem with harness race handicapping today. Because speed holds up so well, it's difficult to know when to bet a closer, and as you said mark, difficult overall to guess the race shape. Back in the conventional sulky day (and even the first modified bike), a lot of speed meant that you zeroed in on a closer, and a good capper could confidently bet on horses from outsides posts.

[RaceBookJoe]

Mel and Mark, thank you, nice to be mentioned in the same forum with names like Beyer, et all.

In terms of race-shapes, this is the biggest problem with harness race handicapping today. Because speed holds up so well, it's difficult to know when to bet a closer, and as you said mark, difficult overall to guess the race shape. Back in the conventional sulky day (and even the first modified bike), a lot of speed meant that you zeroed in on a closer, and a good capper could confidently bet on horses from outsides posts.

Funny you wrote.....i was just re-reading your Pro-Simulcast System for the 2000th time. Nice little system that makes sense. I always look for a PS play when i am walking through the casino/race books. :ThmbUp: rbj

[Dan Montilion]

Ron Cox, Paul Braseth. The Tejas Kid mentioned me as being an influence on his game. I'm proud of that but Dennis had an influence on my game also. The standard fare in regards to authors.

[Judicious Player]

Ken Massa of HTR -- he taught me there's so much more to this game than merely analyzing speed, pace, and class ...

[proximity]

BEGINNING AUTHORS:

*andy beyer and barry meadow: really enjoyed their books.

CURRENT AUTHORS:

*frank and ray cotolo: proud to call them friends.

BOARD MEMBERS:

* dave schwartz and miesque: have said stuff that's stuck with me.

* john del riccio: miss using his ratings.

* tonyk@hsh: great handicapper and diplomatic people person.

*cj, dennis, and justin milkowski: deadly turf handicappers and a rare breed of genuinely good human beings.

*track collector: a true friend.

[ezpace]

snickering about how many times Beyers name was mentioned.LOL

my mentor authors =

Jerry P,,ex-bookmaker, tin-man LOL and *Gambler* = money management

Moore:total factors(13) point system

some unknown cowboy Oklahoma 35yrs ago.. showed me where the

**PROPRIETARY**

:""Athletic-STAMINA horse that's in FORM"" number is in the PP's

Beyer =speed etc.

TAULBOT, Brohammer, CJ, RandyGiles pace/running styles

Class+stamina/form# ...myself lol proprietary but Randy Giles has 50% of it lol

Bill B deceased great TOOLS but never seen a race he didn't like A-1..GREAT*** analysis though

It's ez these days with all the fecked up suits TRACKmanagement and
the designer drugs that can't be tested . Sat/Sun/Holidays major tracks
mostly Route/Turfs THE test BARN IS OPEN THEN ..

forex MARKETS 50HRS A WEEK yum

[Hanover1]

It would have to be the cappers that published in the NY-NJ rags i.e. NY Post, in the 1970s. I combined what I read, with entering-watching races as a job. After reading PPs, I could usually understand how conclusions/picks were arrived at, and began using same mentality.

[Cratos]

I was wondering who was the handicapper/author which got you interested in horse racing and from that point the evolution to where you are today.

Tom Ainsile, Sam Lewin, and the great Phil Bull. Ainsile influenced my early overall comprehension of handicapping. Lewin, the former racing secretary at Monmouth Park helped me immensely to understand “class” and the great Phil Bull connected the “dots” for me in a way that no other author/handicapper ever could to this date.

[classhandicapper]

Quinn and Davidowitz

[castaway01]

In order, Tom Ainslie, Bill Quirin, Steve Davidowitz, Scott McMannis.

How is Scott these days Steve? Living in the east, I don't know much about the guy, but from what I have read he certainly sounds like a sharp handicapper.

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

Ray Taulbot was my introduction to the racing world in the early 80's. I used to read every article and was fascinated by the businesslike manor he spoke of through the medium of turf speculation...as he used to say.

I used to go the the American Turf Monthly office at 505 8th avenue in Manhattan ( a few blocks from Penn Station). I would order a bunch of articles and back copies every week or so. Those were great days. the funny thing is that my love of the game has not weaned since .

[offtrack]

Christopher Brey, trainer pattern studies.

[DeoVolente]

Clem Florio

[HWright98]

Has anybody ever read "How to WIN the PICK 6: Horse Racing's Big $$$ Payout" by Steven Kolb? All of the reviews seem really good; but I thought I'd ask a more trusted source in the people here.

[Trotman]

Belmont 6-6-09 I have all 776 monthly issues since 1946
to Aug issue this year all mint in their own sleeve.

[PaceAdvantage]

Brohamer / Sartin / Beyer / James Jasper (not many know who he is)

[Hedevar]

Norman Ford when I was a kid.

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

Belmont 6-6-09 I have all 776 monthly issues since 1946
to Aug issue this year all mint in their own sleeve.

Outstanding Trot. If i had those issues I could do 10 years in prison and never be bored! LOL

[Robert Goren]

Besides Ira S. Cohen that I mentioned before, a magazine called Turf and Sport Digest.

[Trotman]

Belmont 6-6-09 what is so amazing is how handicapping has evolved. Ray Taulbot was 51 when he was the Managing Editor of American Turf Monthly in 1946 and right from the beginning he wrote about pace and speed handicapping which indicates to me anyway he was the original which eventually everyone followed with their own twists.

[Hedevar]

Besides Ira S. Cohen that I mentioned before, a magazine called Turf and Sport Digest.

I was an avid reader of Turf and Sport Digest and still have some have some bound years.

[Robert Goren]

I was an avid reader of Turf and Sport Digest and still have some have some bound years. You are a lucky person.:)

[thaskalos]

Brohamer / Sartin / Beyer / James Jasper (not many know who he is) I have a book written by a Jim Jasper - called, "Sports Betting"...in which he discribes his baseball and football betting systems. His baseball system is excellent BTW...

This baseball betting system is responsible for getting me involved in sports betting, 25 years ago.

He was one of the first computer programers to utilize the computer for sports betting purposes.

Is he the one you mean?

[PaceAdvantage]

I have a book written by a Jim Jasper - called, "Sports Betting"...in which he discribes his baseball and football betting systems. His baseball system is excellent BTW...

This baseball betting system is responsible for getting me involved in sports betting, 25 years ago.

He was one of the first computer programers to utilize the computer for sports betting purposes.

Is he the one you mean?Yup...back in 1985, he wrote a book entitled More Basic Betting: Programming to Win where he laid out the BASIC code to a horse racing system that was and still is fairly unique in terms of how it sets its value line. He also stressed betting overlays...he was right up my ally back then...

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

Belmont 6-6-09 what is so amazing is how handicapping has evolved. Ray Taulbot was 51 when he was the Managing Editor of American Turf Monthly in 1946 and right from the beginning he wrote about pace and speed handicapping which indicates to me anyway he was the original which eventually everyone followed with their own twists.

Back in his times when the game was win/place and show and THE DAILY DOUBLE he was ahead of his time with his pace, current condition factors and his angle play.

[Cardus]

I don't know if it has been mentioned, but the "Trips and Traps" segments are immensely helpful tools. Is anyone else among current race day analysts doing this?

[Trotman]

Belmont 6-6-09 many people don't realize that Taulbot's angles we're a direct result of the mail he got for his articles and books when the readers had problems understanding what he was teaching. Taulbot figured if he labeled them as an angle just the mystique alone would get the readers to better understand what he was trying to teach because calling them an angle they would believe they really had something special.Many of his angles could be linked to his books and articles. Taulbot did not like writing the angles, it upset him because he felt he wasn't getting through to his readers in fact he claimed that only a handfull of the so called Taulbot Angles we're actual Angles.

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

Belmont 6-6-09 many people don't realize that Taulbot's angles we're a direct result of the mail he got for his articles and books when the readers had problems understanding what he was teaching. Taulbot figured if he labeled them as an angle just the mystique alone would get the readers to better understand what he was trying to teach because calling them an angle they would believe they really had something special.Many of his angles could be linked to his books and articles. Taulbot did not like writing the angles, it upset him because he felt he wasn't getting through to his readers in fact he claimed that only a handfull of the so called Taulbot Angles we're actual Angles.


You are a wealth of info, my friend...this is did not know. It was a sad situation that they recycled his articles when he passed.

[thaskalos]

Yup...back in 1985, he wrote a book entitled More Basic Betting: Programming to Win where he laid out the BASIC code to a horse racing system that was and still is fairly unique in terms of how it sets its value line. He also stressed betting overlays...he was right up my ally back then... Did you dabble in sports betting at all?

[Steve 'StatMan']

How is Scott these days Steve? Living in the east, I don't know much about the guy, but from what I have read he certainly sounds like a sharp handicapper.

Scott's doing really well. Still has his newsletter, and occasionally writes for Horseplayer Magazine. He moved his seminars to Arlington and their OTBs. He holds a seminar and hosts their on-track handicapping contests every two weeks (and does the same for their select IL OTBs during the off-season.) He's also switched, at Arlington's request, to making commentary in the AP Track Program, also available on their website. Plus he's still there everyday betting - wish I was there nearly everyday like long ago, I'm now living near the lake, so a long bus and infrequent train ride to get there.

Scott, in my mind, definitely built his Handicapping House out of Bricks! He really helped me add to my knowledge and understanding of the horses form cycle, building on what I learned from Steve Davidowitz & Bill Quirin. When I'm handicapping to seriously wager, I follow his guideline on using speed figures (preferably his own figs) to project how fast each horse will run today, and compare them against one another, to determine the most likely result of the race - his definition of Handicapping. One throws in projections in the form cycle, adjust for trips (he keeps notes). Personally, I like to add estimated chance (percentage if possible) to those projections, to give me a better feel in how to split (if need be) the harder to split horses among figures alone.

Steve Davidowitz is coming to AP this weekend to join Scott for a Visiting Experts seminar! July 23rd & 24th! That's this Friday & Saturday! Scott reccomends very few handicapping author's works, and Steve Davidowitz is one of them! Steve will be sigining his books, and AP will be selling his latest work. The public is welcome to attend!

[Johnny V]

Besides Ira S. Cohen that I mentioned before, a magazine called Turf and Sport Digest.
I always enjoyed Turf and Sport Digest and was sorry to see it go. It was always better than ATM magazine back then IMO.

[Kevroc]

Lurked here for awhile and I have a racing thread on another board but, I'd like to make my first post here if I may.

My main influence was my grandfather RIP. He was a regular at BEL and AQU for many years. His brother still works for the NYRA (been there a zillion years). I learned how to read the form at age 15 (i'm 35 now). I remember cutting out from school, hopping on the train and going to the track. I'd sneak up the escalator to the 2nd floor clubhouse because my grandfather would always stay on the 1st floor and I didnt want to get caught. I also remember my first 4 digit score was at AQU. We would put in our bets for the last race and then leave to pick up my grandmother who worked at Brookdale Hospital. We would listen to 1010am radio to hear the results. I'd had the trifecta and it paid ~1200 for $2. I yelled "I got it, I hit the triple!". He said "For $2?". I said yeah and showed him my ticket. A four horse $2 box. He shook his fist at me and explained how I should have made two $1 tickets. My first lesson in taxes!

We strayed apart over the years, and we weren't talking much when in 2006 I hit the HOL pick six for $61k. I visited him in the hospital the next year and told him about that score and he told me "Horses lose". I interpreted that to mean "don't get cocky kid, take it easy."

As for books, I loved the Beyer books growing up and when people ask what they should read to start, I recommend Brad Free's Handicapping 101 (I think it is an excellent primer for today's game) and Crist's Exotic Betting (How to wager is just as important as how to h'cap).

Thanks for listening, I enjoy the forum.

[facorsig]

Initial: Andy Beyer

Subsequent: Dick Mitchell

Lasting: Dave Schwartz

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

Lurked here for awhile and I have a racing thread on another board but, I'd like to make my first post here if I may.

My main influence was my grandfather RIP. He was a regular at BEL and AQU for many years. His brother still works for the NYRA (been there a zillion years). I learned how to read the form at age 15 (i'm 35 now). I remember cutting out from school, hopping on the train and going to the track. I'd sneak up the escalator to the 2nd floor clubhouse because my grandfather would always stay on the 1st floor and I didnt want to get caught. I also remember my first 4 digit score was at AQU. We would put in our bets for the last race and then leave to pick up my grandmother who worked at Brookdale Hospital. We would listen to 1010am radio to hear the results. I'd had the trifecta and it paid ~1200 for $2. I yelled "I got it, I hit the triple!". He said "For $2?". I said yeah and showed him my ticket. A four horse $2 box. He shook his fist at me and explained how I should have made two $1 tickets. My first lesson in taxes!

We strayed apart over the years, and we weren't talking much when in 2006 I hit the HOL pick six for $61k. I visited him in the hospital the next year and told him about that score and he told me "Horses lose". I interpreted that to mean "don't get cocky kid, take it easy."

As for books, I loved the Beyer books growing up and when people ask what they should read to start, I recommend Brad Free's Handicapping 101 (I think it is an excellent primer for today's game) and Crist's Exotic Betting (How to wager is just as important as how to h'cap).

Thanks for listening, I enjoy the forum.

Welcome to the board.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Steve Davidowitz is coming to AP this weekend to join Scott for a Visiting Experts seminar! July 23rd & 24th! That's this Friday & Saturday! Scott reccomends very few handicapping author's works, and Steve Davidowitz is one of them! Steve will be sigining his books, and AP will be selling his latest work. The public is welcome to attend!

Just learned the AP Seminars with Scott & Steve have been rescheduled for July 30th & 31st. There is also a bi-weekly handicapping contest that day.

[BIG RED]

My dad,

then I picked up my first book on racing , in the library , by Tom Ainslie, which made me reach for every book they had on the subject (around 106)

then me. I just can't shake off my own influence, that's why I will playing til I hit the bucket list :ThmbUp:

[garyscpa]

My dad,

then I picked up my first book on racing , in the library , by Tom Ainslie, which made me reach for every book they had on the subject (around 106)

then me. I just can't shake off my own influence, that's why I will playing til I hit the bucket list :ThmbUp:

That's the first post I've seen by Big Red in a few years. Where you been, BR?

[Java Gold@TFT]

"Gordon Jones To Win". Did a book report on it in 7th grade. I think he beat Beyer to the spedd figure handicapping menu by a year or two.

[PaceAdvantage]

Did you dabble in sports betting at all?Not even a little bit back then...

[PaceAdvantage]

That's the first post I've seen by Big Red in a few years. Where you been, BR?Something must be wrong...he's been regularly posting as far as I can tell...(Click on his user name, then you can click on a link to show you all of his posts and/or threads).

[judd]

"Gordon Jones To Win". Did a book report on it in 7th grade. I think he beat Beyer to the spedd figure handicapping menu by a year or two.
like his daughter :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:

[garyscpa]

Something must be wrong...he's been regularly posting as far as I can tell...(Click on his user name, then you can click on a link to show you all of his posts and/or threads).

I see now. Apparently he posts in the contest threads and the off-topic computer threads.

I mostly stick to the drama queen threads.:D

[Turfway Ed]

For me, it was Ainslie that got me started.

Since then, most influential were Dick Mitchell, Danny Holmes, and Michael Pizzolla.

[cnollfan]

Has anybody ever read "How to WIN the PICK 6: Horse Racing's Big $$$ Payout" by Steven Kolb? All of the reviews seem really good; but I thought I'd ask a more trusted source in the people here.


I read about half of it before I got sidetracked. I was not impressed. Steven Crist, Jerry Samovitz and Barry Meadow have written better Pick 6 strategy books and/or articles IMHO.

That said, there is one simple but important point Kolb makes: To win the Pick 6, you have to play it. He recommends that anytime there is a Pick 6 carryover of any substance you at least look at the races that day to see if it is a card that you can work with.

[highnote]

The first book I read on racing was by Dr. Z and I used his system for a couple of years before even learning how to handicap. I still use it to this day!

Next I learned how to handicap by reading many different authors - Quinn, Quirin, Beyer, Sartin, Brohammer and Cramer.

But there is one person's whose method I still use today -- Jim "The Hat" Bradshaw. It is so simple, logical and powerful. After handicapping a race using his method I can walk to the window and bet with confidence.

Unfortunately, I only use it a few times per year nowadays since most of what I do involves computerized handicapping. But when I bet for fun at the track his is the only handicapping method that has withstood the test of time for me. The best part is, everything you need to use it is right in the form. You don't track profiles, par times, etc.

The funny thing is, I've talked to others who don't like his method. So to each their own. Find whatever works for you and stick with it.

[Trotman]

swetyejohn yes the Hat was one of a kind. I don't know the difference between betting for fun and the computerized handicapping as you say but what the Hat laid out for us is very good. :ThmbUp:

[workable]

Hi' This is workable I read how you used the Jim bradshaw simple method. I had the book back in the late 90's but lost it while moving. What I would like to know is if you could share the method with me.Iam having a hard time handicapping.you mention the method is powerful. I would be most appreciable if you could help. thank you. workable.

[Ted Craven]

Everything you need to know about Jim 'The Hat' Bradshaw and the Matchup :), plus dozens of practitioners.

http://sartinmethodology.com/The-Match-Up

Ted