Small Fields Bother You?

[misscashalot]

I wonder if those here who complain about 5 or 6 horse fields as being unplayable because of no value also bet football that has 2 horse fields and pays about even $. No value there. No overlays there. No exactas, etc there.

[Hedevar]

Apples and oranges.

[David-LV]

I wonder if those here who complain about 5 or 6 horse fields as being unplayable because of no value also bet football that has 2 horse fields and pays about even $. No value there. No overlays there. No exactas, etc there.

There is no 20% takeout when your betting between two teams, that's the difference.

________
David-LV

[statepierback]

The takeout effect is more dramatic in small field. I'd rather bet on a football game.

[lamboguy]

the way i look at it is if you have a 12 horse field 6 are uncmpetetive to start out with most of the time, yet they do attract some money. in 5 and 6 horses fields if there is 1 horse that is not a contender, you have less chance of catching an overlay. in 12 horse fields sometimes fringe players get better and win.

[Robert Goren]

I like larger fields, but they come with some dangers. One thing that is screwed up the most is pace scenarios. Some 20/1 shot who has never shown early speed ties into the front runners and forces a fast early pace setting up closers that didn't figure to have a chance with a slower pace.

[comet52]

I wonder if those here who complain about 5 or 6 horse fields as being unplayable because of no value also bet football that has 2 horse fields and pays about even $. No value there. No overlays there. No exactas, etc there.

Overlays and value are what you look for there. Exactas aka parlays do exist. Next you're going to tell us the vig is 10%, right? :rolleyes:

I bet sports for years before switching to horses. I prefer horses, I honestly think even with the big takeout that betting against so much dead money instead of a bookie (aka a pro you have to be better than) is more doable.

But I don't like short fields or any field that gets short from multiple scratches. If you have to crapshoot, you have to get a potential reward that makes it worth it. Once you are on a 5 horse Belmont/Hollywood special, it's unlikely you can get a decent reward for risk. Sometimes I will bet an even money or slightly better horse in that situation if I feel very, very strongly about it. That is roughly the equivalent of a sports bet like say, handicapping a college hoops 4 team tourney with one strong entrant and three average teams, if that makes any sense.

But fewer horses being more highly scrutinized by the bettors = less potential value. And there's more running room and less chance of some better horse getting held up or otherwise having it's run compromised, which sometimes is what allows the longer priced horse you liked to come home.

It's just the numbers involved, not a subjective opinion comparing sports to horses which has no relevance.

[DJofSD]

I would state it this way: more horses to handicap gives to casual handicapper more chances to make mistakes.

[Phantombridgejumpe]

In most cases a field with 4 or 5 horses isn't much fun to watch.

I like a mix, I don't mind a 5 horse field now and then, but what Hollywood has done often recently is put on an 8 race card with a median of 6 horses - - that is not my preference.

[David-LV]

I would state it this way: more horses to handicap gives to casual handicapper more chances to make mistakes.

So, I guess it's time that we start having cards with all match races with 20 % percent takeout and we see how long our money can last.

Let make it as easy as it can be.

________
David-LV

[DJofSD]

So, I guess it's time that we start having cards with all match races with 20 % percent takeout and we see how long our money can last.

Let make it as easy as it can be.

________
David-LV
Only if you want most handicappers to feel good about their wins from the past.

[Canadian]

You know, there are exceptions for everything though. I bet mainly harness and I find once in a while a horse comes along where he might not have that snap speed that can help him get in a good position to win in a big field, where all of a sudden he doesn't need it to get in a good striking spot. Also, I've seen situations where the 2 favorites may me way overbet in an exactor and scored that way as well. So there are oppurtunities.

[toussaud]

depends on who is in the field,eve4rythnig is always subjective.

saturdays long brench i knew who was going to win, could care less.

a 20k claimer with 4 horses in it, yeah, kinda bothers me.


don't like uber huge fields. crap happens, alot in 14 horse fields. and if you like a horse in the 14 slot, your usually SOL

10 horses is perfect for me.

[CincyHorseplayer]

I love the 20% takeout gripe from people who love the 1-1 action on sports that's pretty much a staple.I guess getting your ego stroked by wins is of utmost importance.

Here's a fresh take.Here's an idea.Don't bet.If you don't like a race,don't bet it.ROI and hit % goes up by "NOT" betting.I don't mind a 6 horse field because there enough false favorites in them and easy exactas to bang the hell out of.You might not get 5-1 or a $50 exacta.But if it's 3-1 and a $30 exacta like fish in a barrel I can do it all day.

I remember a day back in 2004 that changed my whole perspective on betting and the game.I absolutely refused to bet favorites back then.I had about a 20% hit rate but a high mutuel that put me in good shape.But betting on my home tracks in Ohio it was a road to ruin.I sat there for 2 years wondering how to beat this favorite laden bit of racing.Win betting was out for the most part.I saw an obvious frontrunning favorite and one closer,$22 exacta,$20 on a single combination=$220.4 races later,a speed horse on a speed track with lone closer/class dropper $15.60 exacta I had $10=$78.

I bet less than $100 on the day.My pulse never raised.I didn't feel like I conquered the world or anything.But I walked out with $200 of the track's money betting obvious crap.6 horse fields can be bashed into oblivion.Leave yourself out of the mix waiting on odds can be both boring and detrimental to the bankroll.Take what they give ya.

[thaskalos]

It depends on what kind of player you are. Yes...if you are a small bettor, the proceeds of a small wager, in a 6 or 7 horse field, are often unappetizingly low.

For the bigger bettor, however...small fields are tailor-made for bigger bets on fewer combinations...provided you have the necessary patience.

The race sometimes really "opens-up" for you, from a handicapping standpoint...allowing you to take a much more aggressive stance than a large field would permit.

The value is often still there...minus the chaos factor which is often prevelent in the large fields.

As always...patience is the key.

[rwwupl]

Yes, Small fields bother me. Pace makes the race.With small fields the pace is determined by the Jockey,not the horse. In a large field,if the Jockey dictates a false pace, he is likely run over and loses his best chance.

If there are not 8 horses or more, the danger of a Jockey race is present, so all races should be at least 8 horses(stake and above are exceptions), or do not race.

The 5 horse fields in early races in California,in my opinion, are nothing more than a program to keep horsemen at home and give slow horses a check. They are mostly unpredictable jockey races and should be played at your own peril. There are some horses that enter to "fill the field" of 5, just to get a check or "appearance fee"...even if they know they are not competitive.

The TOC has no program to encourage larger fields to attract more customers, which in my opinion,is one of the most important missions for the TOC and why they are there. Instead it is the TOC concentrating on getting more of a shrinking pie for their membership, while the big picture is lost. It is the horsemen and the racetrack responsible to put on the show...and they get a poor grade.

There are enough horses,2,800 and 40% in subsidized stalls have not run at Hollywood...You can only say that there is too much self interest and no one is taking care of the industry interest.

With short fields,high prices and high tiered take out, and competition offering your customers a better deal...no one is watching the store,and the game is losing ground in popularity.

Not surprising.

I can handicap a horse race,but I can not handicap what is in the mind of a man.

I like to bet on horse races, not jockey races. No more 5 horse fields.

We customers all love horse racing, if they would put on the show for us and not themselves.

rwwupl

[CincyHorseplayer]

It depends on what kind of player you are. Yes...if you are a small bettor, the proceeds of a small wager, in a 6 or 7 horse field, are often unappetizingly low.

For the bigger bettor, however...small fields are tailor-made for bigger bets on fewer combinations...provided you have the necessary patience.

The race sometimes really "opens-up" for you, from a handicapping standpoint...allowing you to take a much more aggressive stance than a large field would permit.

The value is often still there...minus the chaos factor which is often prevelent in the large fields.

As always...patience is the key.


Your last comment is dead on and I think in it's simplicity it is overlooked.Patience.There is none.I think most people approach like crackheads.They are herky-jerky,slobberin,shiverrin,whacked out of their minds ready to bet and be emotional on everything that happens.

Don't bet.That increases your efficiency right there.Short fields aren't the enemy,but the mentality towards them are.

[misscashalot]

the way i look at it is if you have a 12 horse field 6 are uncmpetetive to start out with most of the time, yet they do attract some money. in 5 and 6 horses fields if there is 1 horse that is not a contender, you have less chance of catching an overlay. in 12 horse fields sometimes fringe players get better and win.


The number of horses in a field that pleases a bettor should in some way be dependent of the type of horse he tends to favor betting.

Example on the NY circuit

in the past 20 years there have been about 7200 races having 6 horse fields, Fav won 2800. Win % 388

In the same time frame races with 10 horse fields about 5000 races. Fav won 1600 .320%

So as far as non-competitive horses are concerned, they are more non-competitive in smaller fields than larger. Thus a low odds player should take to smaller fields.

Conversely if the type of horse you like to play falls into the 4th, 5th or 6th bet choice, you'd do better looking at races with 10 horses rather that 8.

So a player who bets win, and is looking for a high win percentage, should bet smaller fields. And for leverage due to average favorite odds of $1.25/1, he plays X or tri etc, then the 2nd spot on his ticket should NOT be the 2nd bet choice to say the least because there's no leverage there. In betting doubles, tri's etc, ...well that's another story.

This is all a generalization...come and get me :p

[JohnGalt1]

Another reason not mentioned why handle is down--unbettable races due to small fields.

[jonnielu]

Another reason not mentioned why handle is down--unbettable races due to small fields.

I believe that handles are down because the industry simply refuses to appeal to regular people. Regular people like to see a $40.00 dollar horse on the board, handicappers don't. Regular people like grabbing 5 or 6 numbers out of the air and playing them all day just to see what happens, handicappers don't.

Regular people might enjoy boxing the top 4 ML in exactas all day, just to walk out down the price of a beer and a hot dog, the handicapper? Nope, everything has to figure just the way he figured it should figure, or it is no good. And, the handicapper will tell all of the regular people what blithering idiots they are for attempting to make play of the game.

Smaller fields and bigger takeout makes sense when the lunatics are running the asylum.

jdl

[ArlJim78]

I'd like to know why handicappers don't like to see $40 on the board.

[DJofSD]

Yes, Small fields bother me. Pace makes the race.With small fields the pace is determined by the Jockey,not the horse. In a large field,if the Jockey dictates a false pace, he is likely run over and loses his best chance.

If there are not 8 horses or more, the danger of a Jockey race is present, so all races should be at least 8 horses(stake and above are exceptions), or do not race.

The 5 horse fields in early races in California,in my opinion, are nothing more than a program to keep horsemen at home and give slow horses a check. They are mostly unpredictable jockey races and should be played at your own peril. There are some horses that enter to "fill the field" of 5, just to get a check or "appearance fee"...even if they know they are not competitive.

The TOC has no program to encourage larger fields to attract more customers, which in my opinion,is one of the most important missions for the TOC and why they are there. Instead it is the TOC concentrating on getting more of a shrinking pie for their membership, while the big picture is lost. It is the horsemen and the racetrack responsible to put on the show...and they get a poor grade.

There are enough horses,2,800 and 40% in subsidized stalls have not run at Hollywood...You can only say that there is too much self interest and no one is taking care of the industry interest.

With short fields,high prices and high tiered take out, and competition offering your customers a better deal...no one is watching the store,and the game is losing ground in popularity.

Not surprising.

I can handicap a horse race,but I can not handicap what is in the mind of a man.

I like to bet on horse races, not jockey races. No more 5 horse fields.

We customers all love horse racing, if they would put on the show for us and not themselves.

rwwupl
Roger, this has got to be the post of the month.

[thaskalos]

And I would like to know when the handicappers started going around calling the regular people "blithering idiots", for playing this game...like a game.

[therussmeister]

Northern California and Sportsman's Park taught me how to beat short fields. Like shorthanded poker you have to adjust your strategy to maximize your profits. But still, I prefer not to have too many short fields. They get boring.

[thespaah]

Sports betting is in no way similar to pari-mutuel wagering.