Monmouth Handles $9,298,853 Sat. July 10

[David-LV]

Despite a little rain and a hot and humid day Monmouth continues to do a very brick business with a Saturday handle of $9,298,853 and may chances to make 'A SCORE AT THE SHORE'.

Good luck to all on Sunday as the .50 cent pick 5 with a 15% takeout continues to be a very popular wager.

________
David-LV

[The_Knight_Sky]

The entries for Friday are out as of Sunday evening.

Is that enough of a head start on 'capping?

140 horses entered for the 12 races.


http://i26.tinypic.com/2z8swu1.gif Rah. http://i26.tinypic.com/2z8swu1.gif Rah. http://i26.tinypic.com/2z8swu1.gif and Rah !

[Stillriledup]

No offense to Monmouth, but i'd rather invest in Belmont's 50 cent pick 5 with the 15 pct takeout.

:rolleyes:

[the little guy]

The entries for Friday are out as of Sunday evening.

Is that enough of a head start on 'capping?




You mean like virtually every track with a 72 hour draw ( essentially every track running )?

Do you even follow racing?

[Tom]

We now have more Monmouth handle threads than Hollywood has entries. :rolleyes:

[alhattab]

Card looks pretty bleak considering the number of cheap maiden claimers and low-value claimers on the card. They couldn't fill or held over a AOC NW3x F&M, $12.5k F&M claimers going long, $20k open claimers going long, and $22k F&M claimers going short.

For those of you wondering how you get to $50 million in 50 days, I guess it's based on the condition book! Those races above that didn't fill add up to about $200k in purse money that was essentially replaced by maiden/cheap claimers with aggregate purse money of about $80-$100k.

[David-LV]

Card looks pretty bleak considering the number of cheap maiden claimers and low-value claimers on the card. They couldn't fill or held over a AOC NW3x F&M, $12.5k F&M claimers going long, $20k open claimers going long, and $22k F&M claimers going short.

For those of you wondering how you get to $50 million in 50 days, I guess it's based on the condition book! Those races above that didn't fill add up to about $200k in purse money that was essentially replaced by maiden/cheap claimers with aggregate purse money of about $80-$100k.


Just the kind of races to make your 'SCORE AT THE SHORE'.:):)

________
David-LV

[Robert Goren]

Just the kind of races to make your 'SCORE AT THE SHORE'.:):)

________
David-LVGive me a break!

[lamboguy]

Give me a break!
this week i had 2 big scores at monmouth with horses that ran second. i have never been able to bet these large exacta races there with the lower handles. i am betting the same horses that i would have in years past, just alot more money today, reminds me of the good old days at saratoga.

[Robert Goren]

this week i had 2 big scores at monmouth with horses that ran second. i have never been able to bet these large exacta races there with the lower handles. i am betting the same horses that i would have in years past, just alot more money today, reminds me of the good old days at saratoga.Enjoy it while it lasts, because it is about over. The casino money runs out in sept. and it isn't coming back.

[comet52]

:ThmbUp: to Monmouth for trying to get the game out of it's doldrums.

[onefast99]

Enjoy it while it lasts, because it is about over. The casino money runs out in sept. and it isn't coming back.
If you haven't noticed Pa. now has table games and this will cut into AC's bottom line even further. NJ will vote on a racino for the Meadowlands and by 2014 it will be operational. Over the next 3 years there will be enough monies to keep NJ racing going from the added off track wagering facilities. There may not be a $1m a day but 1/2 of that should be doable.

[David-LV]

Enjoy it while it lasts, because it is about over. The casino money runs out in sept. and it isn't coming back.

What, do you have a crystal ball?

We will find out what is going to happen on August 1st.

Being from Las Vegas the last 38 years and having been in the casino business for over 20 years with family members being one of the owners of a major property I can assure you that casino money never runs out, there will be some kind of deal for next year and the years after that.

So while we wait to see what is going to happen next year we will continue to enjoy and take what Monmouth gives us this year.

We will worry about next year when it get's here.

The .50 cent pick 5 with a takeout of 15% continues to be one of the great betting opportunities in racing.

This really is not between NYRA and Monmouth because NYRA with it's much higher expenses, tradition and population base should be out handling Monmouth at least by 200%, but it is not, so as far as I am concerned the NYRA model is broken and needs big time fixing.

________
David-LV

MONMOUTH='A SCORE AT THE SHORE'.:)

[Tom]

I've played one race there so far.
That is 100% more than last year.
So I guess it is working. :D

[lamboguy]

Enjoy it while it lasts, because it is about over. The casino money runs out in sept. and it isn't coming back.
i know you are right!

i spoke to a trainer not in monmouth, but a leading trainer no less, he said the money is good now, and i am going to get as much of it as i can before it stops coming,

[Rutgers]

Card looks pretty bleak considering the number of cheap maiden claimers and low-value claimers on the card. They couldn't fill or held over a AOC NW3x F&M, $12.5k F&M claimers going long, $20k open claimers going long, and $22k F&M claimers going short.

For those of you wondering how you get to $50 million in 50 days, I guess it's based on the condition book! Those races above that didn't fill add up to about $200k in purse money that was essentially replaced by maiden/cheap claimers with aggregate purse money of about $80-$100k.

Even then you wouldn't get anywhere near $1 million.

They way I see it one of two things happen:

1) The NJSEA really thought the handle would be big enough to support $1 million per day, and they were way wrong. Which would mean this meet is really a huge failure.

or

2) The NJSEA knew full well the handle would never be $1 million dollars a day, but just said that to get support from horseman, horseplayers, the public and the State as well as getting media attention, including TVG coverage. (Or in essence, knowingly made an untrue statement in order to profit.)

If anybody else has another plausible, logical explanation why the purses are so low compared to what was advertised I would like to hear it.

(Or give me a reason to be excited about Monmouth Park's handle per race being so much lower than other tracks that have fewer entries and less purse money, or why you think that is a good sign for the furture)

From my prospective of being a New Jersey resident and a horseplayer, I am very concerned about the future of horse racing in NJ. Because if either of the above is true, NJ racing is in more serious trouble then many thought.

[David-LV]

i know you are right!

i spoke to a trainer not in monmouth, but a leading trainer no less, he said the money is good now, and i am going to get as much of it as i can before it stops coming,

Major casino money never runs out as long as there are slot machines in them.

_______
David-LV

[onefast99]

Even then you wouldn't get anywhere near $1 million.

They way I see it one of two things happen:

1) The NJSEA really thought the handle would be big enough to support $1 million per day, and they were way wrong. Which would mean this meet is really a huge failure.

or

2) The NJSEA knew full well the handle would never be $1 million dollars a day, but just said that to get support from horseman, horseplayers, the public and the State as well as getting media attention, including TVG coverage. (Or in essence, knowingly made an untrue statement in order to profit.)

If anybody else has another plausible, logical explanation why the purses are so low compared to what was advertised I would like to hear it.

(Or give me a reason to be excited about Monmouth Park's handle per race being so much lower than other tracks that have fewer entries and less purse money, or why you think that is a good sign for the furture)

From my prospective of being a New Jersey resident and a horseplayer, I am very concerned about the future of horse racing in NJ. Because if either of the above is true, NJ racing is in more serious trouble then many thought.
The $50m must cover the entire meet as the MP regular meet ends 9-6 and the Meadowlands meet at MP begins on 9-11 and runs until November 21st. Based on what the racing secretary has done thus far the meet has had its ups and downs. Yesterday the claim box was stuffed for the 4th there was 5 claims in on this 5k bunch Aunt Mabel had 4 claims in on her and Sacco got a nice one. I don't know why some of the stakes races and allowance races are coming up with short fields maybe there just isn't enough good horses to go around.

[Rutgers]

The $50m must cover the entire meet as the MP regular meet ends 9-6 and the Meadowlands meet at MP begins on 9-11 and runs until November 21st.

The advertisments and press were pretty clear the $50 million in purse were for the 50-day Monmouth meet.

From the website:

"The 2010 Monmouth Park racing season promises to have it's own place in history as the track is posed to offer an unprecedented $50 million in purses over an elite 50-day meet. The season, which opens May 22, will run Friday - Sunday and holiday Mondays until Labor Day"

Here is the link:

http://www.monmouthpark.com/calendardates.aspx?id=93

(BTW: The elite meet is really only 49 days, but I'll give them that...$49 million in 49 days just doesn't sound as catchy)

[David-LV]

The advertisments and press were pretty clear the $50 million in purse were for the 50-day Monmouth meet.

From the website:

"The 2010 Monmouth Park racing season promises to have it's own place in history as the track is posed to offer an unprecedented $50 million in purses over an elite 50-day meet. The season, which opens May 22, will run Friday - Sunday and holiday Mondays until Labor Day"

Here is the link:

http://www.monmouthpark.com/calendardates.aspx?id=93

(BTW: The elite meet is really only 49 days, but I'll give them that...$49 million in 49 days just doesn't sound as catchy)

Why all this nit picking, at least Monmouth is making a major effort in trying to turn things around.

Who else do you know that does everything that they advertise.

Just enjoy and try and pick up some easy money at the Jersey Shore.
Plenty of opportunities there for the taking.

________
David-LV

MONMOUTH='A SCORE AT THE SHORE'.

[onefast99]

The advertisments and press were pretty clear the $50 million in purse were for the 50-day Monmouth meet.

From the website:

"The 2010 Monmouth Park racing season promises to have it's own place in history as the track is posed to offer an unprecedented $50 million in purses over an elite 50-day meet. The season, which opens May 22, will run Friday - Sunday and holiday Mondays until Labor Day"

Here is the link:

http://www.monmouthpark.com/calendardates.aspx?id=93

(BTW: The elite meet is really only 49 days, but I'll give them that...$49 million in 49 days just doesn't sound as catchy)
Then sue them for false advertising. The money will carry both meets and whats leftover will go to the horseman.

[David-LV]

I think even God is on Monmouth's side with good weather on most racing days.

I don't think that they have had to take a race off the turf yet which is real good for a race track on the Jersey Shore.

________
David-LV

MONMOUTH='A SCORE AT THE SHORE'.

[onefast99]

I think even God is on Monmouth's side with good weather on most racing days.

I don't think that they have had to take a race off the turf yet which is real good for a race track on the Jersey Shore.

________
David-LV

MONMOUTH='A SCORE AT THE SHORE'.
The turf course still looks great.

[Dahoss9698]

Why all this nit picking, at least Monmouth is making a major effort in trying to turn things around.

Who else do you know that does everything that they advertise.


Yes, heaven forbid someone bring up valid points.

[David-LV]

Yes, heaven forbid someone bring up valid points.

I think that all points of view are valid even if both you and I disagree on what is valid and what is not.

The most important valid point that I think is where and when are we going to cash our next winning ticket, even if it is at Scarborough Downs.

________
David-LV

MONMOUTH='A SCORE AT THE SHORE.'

[peakpros]

Monmouth has not connected with the local fan. The attendence numbers this past weekend were typical of most weekends last year.

Sure the handle is up but one goal was to attract the local gambling dollar.

It has not worked.

Met a group of four yesterday who made their first visit for the year. They use to come 3-4 times a summer on weds, but that is not an option now.

They got hit with a $10 fee to valet the car and that left a not so favorable impression. And then increased food prices over last year.

For all the talk of great races and big fields they still don't appreciate the casual fan.

[PaceAdvantage]

This really is not between NYRA and Monmouth because NYRA with it's much higher expenses, tradition and population base should be out handling Monmouth at least by 200%, but it is not, so as far as I am concerned the NYRA model is broken and needs big time fixing.Then why did the "Monmouth boys" on this forum make this about Monmouth vs. NYRA from the beginning?

I agree the NYRA model is broken and needs big time fixing. Any racing newbie could see that this has been the case for YEARS and YEARS...

One must realize however, that this "model" is one that the NYRA is FORCED to operate under, so to fix it, you have to start at the state level and work your way down...

[alhattab]

Monmouth has not connected with the local fan. The attendence numbers this past weekend were typical of most weekends last year.

Sure the handle is up but one goal was to attract the local gambling dollar.

It has not worked.

Met a group of four yesterday who made their first visit for the year. They use to come 3-4 times a summer on weds, but that is not an option now.

They got hit with a $10 fee to valet the car and that left a not so favorable impression. And then increased food prices over last year.

For all the talk of great races and big fields they still don't appreciate the casual fan.

I didn't check every weekend, but this past weekend certainly proves your point. Total attendance/on track handle for the 3 days 2010 was 28.7k/$2,166k vs. 30.9k/$1,778k. Per capita $75 vs. $57. Per race $60k vs. $61.

For 4th of July Fri-Sun, stats are 29.9k/$2,270 in 2010 vs. 33.7k/$2,026 in 2009. Per capita $75.9 vs. $60.1. Per race $63k vs. $65k.

Now if you want to be a bit forgiving, it has been pretty hot and humid here over the past two weekends while last year the weather was cooler and more hospitable to a day at Monmouth than a day at the beach, and Fri July 3 was a holiday last year whereas Fri July 2 this year was not (and trust me the numbers won't be much different if I compare 7/3/09 to 7/5/10- in fact I think they will be worse). These numbers are not good, and they speak to not recapturing the "lapsed fan" that Kulina said they needed to capture.

The proclaimed "success" of this meeting is premature. Kulina said something in print the other day suggesting that twilight racing may work out "...like everything else has worked out this year." Well, not quite. Where is the lapsed fan? Why aren't the local people betting more into the Monmouth pools? Would the per capita be $75 even with 10 races/day?

I was talking to a guy at the beach yesterday who grew up down here and, like for many of the locals, Monmouth Park was part of his fabric growing up. He went with his parents, then graduated to going with his high school buddies, like many of us got into the game I think. There are a ton of people like that down here (I did the same thing, but at the Meadowlands). He was lamenting the past few meetings which everyone recognized sucked. He said he was looking forward to going back, but not until the beach season is over (we both belong to a "beach club" which closes on Labor Day). Now this is one guy, but I wonder how many of those "lapsed fans" are out there. I hope Mth gets some money in the marketing budget to get them back- they're going to be needed in September/October/November(!).

[The Hawk]

One must realize however, that this "model" is one that the NYRA is FORCED to operate under, so to fix it, you have to start at the state level and work your way down...

This is EXACTLY why Monmouth deserves kudos. They realized that the model was broken, that less racing was needed, and they went out and got it done. This is what NYRA should be doing, unless anyone there thinks the NYRA product is just fine the way it is. Is there a good reason why this Belmont meet has to be run this way, with 12 racing cards in 13 days ending this past Sunday, with Saratoga coming up? Instead of knocking Monmouth, people should look at it objectively and admit that it's a much more attractive situation from a betting perspective than Belmont is. It really is ok to say that NY is not the best at something.

[PaceAdvantage]

It really is ok to say that NY is not the best at something.Are you trying to say there isn't enough of that here on a daily basis? :lol:

[The Hawk]

Yeah, I guess you're right about that lately.

[Dahoss9698]

Instead of knocking Monmouth, people should look at it objectively and admit that it's a much more attractive situation from a betting perspective than Belmont is.

I read this a lot and just don't agree. There have been a ton of great wagering opportunities at Belmont this meet. Just because there haven't been 12 horse fields doesn't mean it's been a parade of chalk.

[Robert Goren]

No Kudos from me on the Monmouth meet. It has been a failure even according to their goals. It has been pumped on this site as something great. It is not. They had this once in lifetime chance to something to save NJ racing, but they blew their money on cheap NJ races. So they get full fields for 5K horses, big deal, they get that in Texas for a lot less in purse money. For the kind money they are throwing around, we should be seeing a lot better horses. And one more thing, nothing resembling a major track runs only 3 days a week.

[affirmedny]

Even then you wouldn't get anywhere near $1 million.

They way I see it one of two things happen:

1) The NJSEA really thought the handle would be big enough to support $1 million per day, and they were way wrong. Which would mean this meet is really a huge failure.



The experiment will be labeled a failure if the betting handle does not increase enough to offset the costs involved with the higher purses. Monmouth’s general manager, Bob Kulina, estimated that the on-site handle would increase 15 percent, and off-track wagering would be up by 22 percent.

“Those are the kind of numbers we need,” he said. “But maybe we can be up 30 to 40 percent. We just don’t know. We think the upside could be huge.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/19/sports/19racing.html


no doubt they're getting more than they predicted. Is it enough? Unless he had no idea what kind of handle was needed to support this kind of meet he's got it.

[Stillriledup]

Then why did the "Monmouth boys" on this forum make this about Monmouth vs. NYRA from the beginning?

I agree the NYRA model is broken and needs big time fixing. Any racing newbie could see that this has been the case for YEARS and YEARS...

One must realize however, that this "model" is one that the NYRA is FORCED to operate under, so to fix it, you have to start at the state level and work your way down...

I think the "Monmouth boys" came here and wanted to talk about Monmouth and how they're at least making an attempt to do some good things. I believe it was a few bad apples who came in and spoiled these threads with the us vs them arguments.

[Dahoss9698]

I think the "Monmouth boys" came here and wanted to talk about Monmouth and how they're at least making an attempt to do some good things. I believe it was a few bad apples who came in and spoiled these threads with the us vs them arguments.

So what exactly is the point of starting a new thread every weekend talking about their handle? You don't think that is an obvious us vs. them? Every thread David-Lv starts is a puff piece for Monmouth and a thinly veiled shot at NYRA.

[Stillriledup]

So what exactly is the point of starting a new thread every weekend talking about their handle? You don't think that is an obvious us vs. them? Every thread David-Lv starts is a puff piece for Monmouth and a thinly veiled shot at NYRA.

But why would you care unless you are a NYRA employee? What's the difference? Why are you taking this personally?

[Dahoss9698]

But why would you care unless you are a NYRA employee? What's the difference? Why are you taking this personally?

I'm not taking it personally at all. But why avoid the questions I asked?

I didn't realize in order to care about something I had to work there. Looks like most of the board shouldn't care then, because most of the board doesn't work in the industry.

Do you really not see who started and is continuing the us vs them stuff? Or are just pretending not to because you personally don't care for the "them?"

[Stillriledup]

I'm not taking it personally at all. But why avoid the questions I asked?

I didn't realize in order to care about something I had to work there. Looks like most of the board shouldn't care then, because most of the board doesn't work in the industry.

Do you really not see who started and is continuing the us vs them stuff? Or are just pretending not to because you personally don't care for the "them?"

I don't think its an obvious us vs them, at least it didnt start out that way. I do agree with you that it is a bit overkill, we don't need to see the Monmouth handle every Saturday, there's really no need for it. Maybe it started out as a 'yay for Mth' thread and you came on there and got into it with 'us vs them' stuff and now, every new thread is just to try and get under your skin? Maybe if you just ignored it, it wouldnt bother you. Just do what you told me to do, put all those guys on ignore and you won't have to see it. David LV and others, if you put them on ignore, you can avoid seeing any of this stuff.

[Dahoss9698]

I don't think its an obvious us vs them, at least it didnt start out that way. I do agree with you that it is a bit overkill, we don't need to see the Monmouth handle every Saturday, there's really no need for it. Maybe it started out as a 'yay for Mth' thread and you came on there and got into it with 'us vs them' stuff and now, every new thread is just to try and get under your skin? Maybe if you just ignored it, it wouldnt bother you. Just do what you told me to do, put all those guys on ignore and you won't have to see it. David LV and others, if you put them on ignore, you can avoid seeing any of this stuff.

I could put them on ignore. But I don't put people on ignore, I'm not a likeable fellow and I don't get along very well with most of the posters here, I'd like to keep it that way.

[Stillriledup]

I could put them on ignore. But I don't put people on ignore, I'm not a likeable fellow and I don't get along very well with most of the posters here, I'd like to keep it that way.

Well, you wouldn't you if people started respecting you and your opinion, so, be yourself and stay the way you are.

[Dahoss9698]

Well, you wouldn't you if people started respecting you and your opinion, so, be yourself and stay the way you are.

Geez, I'm kidding with you. I took something you said to me and switched a few words around.

But since you mention it, do you think you and your opinion are respected? That's funny.

[Stillriledup]

Geez, I'm kidding with you. I took something you said to me and switched a few words around.

But since you mention it, do you think you and your opinion are respected? That's funny.

I don't know if my opinion is respected or not, but i know i am respected as a person because i don't attack posters relentlessly for spelling a word wrong or 'not knowing everything'. Maybe someday i can know half of what you know about this game, that's what i'm shooting for.

[Dahoss9698]

I don't know if my opinion is respected or not

Allow me to remove any doubt you might have. It's not.

The attack stuff is funny. I think in my entire time here I might have corrected someone once about the spelling and use of a word. In fact I didn't do it first either. That is relentlessly attacking?

Who deemed you the board Robin Hood? Don't pretend you don't take your fair share of shots.

[David-LV]

Just a reminder.

2:10pm post time for Monmouth Park the next two Fridays. Enjoy! :)

________
David-LV

MONMOUTH='A SCORE AT THE SHORE.'

[The Hawk]

I read this a lot and just don't agree. There have been a ton of great wagering opportunities at Belmont this meet. Just because there haven't been 12 horse fields doesn't mean it's been a parade of chalk.

ANY track you play will provide a couple of good wagering opportunities over any course of time. I'm speaking in general terms, the Belmont meet has been substandard, to say the least.


No Kudos from me on the Monmouth meet. It has been a failure even according to their goals. It has been pumped on this site as something great. It is not. They had this once in lifetime chance to something to save NJ racing, but they blew their money on cheap NJ races. So they get full fields for 5K horses, big deal, they get that in Texas for a lot less in purse money. For the kind money they are throwing around, we should be seeing a lot better horses. And one more thing, nothing resembling a major track runs only 3 days a week.

Almost everything about this post is wrong:

It HASN'T been a failure, they've exceeded their goals.

It IS something great: their handle is way up, and everyone (including you) has talked about the meet, which didn't happen in the past.

They DID save NJ racing, if they have convinced the state that they're worth saving, and it seems they're doing that.

Texas doesn't get a fraction of the NJ handle.

Tell me the horses they didn't get at the end of the year, who they should have gotten. Do you see the horses who are expected for Saratoga's big races in the next few weeks? Is that Saratoga's fault? Who are these "better horses" that you need to see?

Three day meets may be the future. The game is not what it was, when there were enough A) horses and B) bettors to support 5 and 6-day weeks for an extended period. Change or die. They changed, and they may survive because they did, that's the bottom line.

[Robert Goren]

Can NJ horse racing stand on its own without getting a large amounts of money from some other source. The answer to that is NO. I could run a heck of a used car business if I got a bunch of free money from the casinos. If you can't pay your own way as a business then you are a failure. Monmouth Park is no closer to being able to stand on its own two feet than it was after it ran it last race in 2009. It is so sad because they could have spent the "seed" money on things that would have gone a long way toward making it profitable. Instead after this year, they will go back to short fields and small handles and be out of business in a few years. I am no fan of Texas racing, but they have much better handle to purse ratio than Monmouth. The ratio of handle to purse money has gotten worse this year in NJ. The old sarcastic saying of "I am losing money, but I am making it up in volume" was never more true than in NJ racing in 2010.

[alhattab]

I am no fan of Texas racing, but they have much better handle to purse ratio than Monmouth. The ratio of handle to purse money has gotten worse this year in NJ. The old sarcastic saying of "I am losing money, but I am making it up in volume" was never more true than in NJ racing in 2010.

I'm surprised by this. What are the numbers for Texas? I think the NJ numbers are about 9 or 10-1. Here is what Crist published for 5/22:

Track Races Purses Avg. Purse Handle Avg. Handle H/P ratio .

Belmont 10 $426,000 $42,600 $11,926,972 $1,192,697 $28.00.

Hollywood 9 $367,600 $40,844 $9,560,260 $1,062,251 $26.01.

Golden Gate 9 $104,200 $11,578 $2,199,836 $244,426 $21.11.

Churchill Downs 11 $341,000 $31,000 $5,314,024 $483,093 $15.58.

Monmouth 13 $812,000 $62,462 $9,357,444 $719,803 $11.52.

Calder 12 $258,500 $21,542 $2,443,955 $203,663 $9.45.

Lone Star 10 $112,000 $11,200 $789,266 $78,927 $7.05.

Arlington 11 $549,437 $49,949 $3,475,274 $315,934 $6.33.

Finger Lakes 9 $123,600 $13,733 $726,550 $80,728 $5.88.

Philly Park 10 $255,000 $25,500 $961,737 $96,174 $3.77.

Indiana Downs 11 $233,200 $21,200 $501,367 $45,579 $2.15.

Presque Isle 8 $162,500 $20,313 $207,858 $25,982 $1.28.

Prairie Meadows 9 $248,286 $27,587 $291,237 $32,360 $1.17

[Dahoss9698]

Just a reminder.

2:10pm post time for Monmouth Park the next two Fridays. Enjoy! :)

________
David-LV

MONMOUTH='A SCORE AT THE SHORE.'

Did you use spellcheck for this?

[Dahoss9698]

ANY track you play will provide a couple of good wagering opportunities over any course of time. I'm speaking in general terms, the Belmont meet has been substandard, to say the least.





From my own personal wagering experience this meet, again I disagree. I know plenty of other players doing quite well also.

[Kimsus]

Some like the challenge of betting 5 horse fields. :lol:

[Dahoss9698]

Some like the challenge of betting 5 horse fields. :lol:

It's clear you don't bet, so maybe I'm asking the wrong person. But help me out with something. If you cash on a 7-1 horse in a 6 horse field compared to a 12 horse field it pays the same right?

The point of the game is to make money (for those that bet of course).

[Kimsus]

It's clear you don't bet, so maybe I'm asking the wrong person. But help me out with something. If you cash on a 7-1 horse in a 6 horse field compared to a 12 horse field it pays the same right?

The point of the game is to make money (for those that bet of course).

Takeout dumbsville, is there not a higher takeout with smaller fields? I guess for you all is well with Belmont. Even Beyer a guy I am sure you have a poster on your bedroom wall has said as much, keep with the Ostrich act Hoss. You are becoming a joke here.

[Dahoss9698]

Takeout dumbsville, is there not a higher takeout with smaller fields? I guess for you all is well with Belmont. Even Beyer a guy I am sure you have a poster on your bedroom wall has said as much, keep with the Ostrich act Hoss. You are becoming a joke here.

I'm not taking the bait again. Wouldn't want PA to have to close another thread. Your last sentence is funny though. Ironic, but funny.

[Kimsus]

I'm not taking the bait again. Wouldn't want PA to have to close another thread. Your last sentence is funny though. Ironic, but funny.

I have a new found respect for you, BUT just because one does well at a track doesn't mean all is well with the model. I know you have probably heard Beyer on Attheracesandbeyond, and Beyer makes some great points about the state of Belmont this year. If you haven't you should listen.

[Dahoss9698]

I have a new found respect for you, BUT just because one does well at a track doesn't mean all is well with the model. I know you have probably heard Beyer on Attheracesandbeyond, and Beyer makes some great points about the state of Belmont this year. If you haven't you should listen.

I never said anything about the model. I was strictly talking about betting. But, as it stands NYRA doesn't have much choice in the way they are operating right now. They don't have the luxury of running 3 day a week meets. Because of the franchise agreement they are required to run a certain amount of days.

This should probably be in the other thread, but bloodhorse actually published the full report from the NY Comptroller about NYRA and NYRA's response. It's an interesting read and I think sheds a lot of light on the situation as it has been for years now.

Things need to change and if you or anyone thinks NYRA doesn't want to change them, you're nuts. But they can't just change things overnight, especially considering their financial situation. However, I maintain there have been a lot of lucrative wagering opportunities at Belmont this year, which is what I was talking about.

Here's the bloodhorse link
http://www.bloodhorse.com/pdf/09s89.pdf

[The Hawk]

I never said anything about the model. I was strictly talking about betting. But, as it stands NYRA doesn't have much choice in the way they are operating right now. They don't have the luxury of running 3 day a week meets. Because of the franchise agreement they are required to run a certain amount of days.

DaHoss, I respect everything you're saying, but the point, again, is that Monmouth also had a deal, with the horsemen, and they got it changed because they realized it wasn't a good situation. NYRA should do whatever they can to change the way they operate, because although you may have found a couple of decent bets at the meet it's not the type of racing that's going to be successful long term. I know, the same can be said for what Monmouth is doing, but at least there was an attempt. Something has to be done.

[Stillriledup]

I have a new found respect for you, BUT just because one does well at a track doesn't mean all is well with the model. I know you have probably heard Beyer on Attheracesandbeyond, and Beyer makes some great points about the state of Belmont this year. If you haven't you should listen.

Everyone here at PA is a lifetime winner, just ask them.

[Dahoss9698]

DaHoss, I respect everything you're saying, but the point, again, is that Monmouth also had a deal, with the horsemen, and they got it changed because they realized it wasn't a good situation. NYRA should do whatever they can to change the way they operate, because although you may have found a couple of decent bets at the meet it's not the type of racing that's going to be successful long term. I know, the same can be said for what Monmouth is doing, but at least there was an attempt. Something has to be done.

I agree, it's not the type of racing that will be successful long term and I also agree about Monmouth. I'm sure you're familiar with the reasons why things are the way they are. No point in rehashing all of that again.

I also agree that it was nice Monmouth made an attempt. Now, they really had no choice and as you said it probably can't work long term. However, they essentially put a bandaid on a bleeding wound. Sure it might stop the bleeding a little, but wouldn't stitches be better? I know their hands are tied as well. It's just unfortunate that we have so many stupid politicians.

[Dahoss9698]

Everyone here at PA is a lifetime winner, just ask them.

The adults are talking now. I'm sure there is a 5 year old thread to pull back up and pretend you're a swell guy in.

[David-LV]

Did you use spellcheck for this?


I am sorry that I was dumb enough to make a mistake and forgot that you are the genius that has never made an error in his life.

GROW UP AND STOP BEING SO CRITICAL OF EVERYONE, YOU MY FRIEND ARE NO BETTER THEN ANYBODY ELSE THAT POSTS HERE, SO GET A LIFE.


________
David-LV

[Dahoss9698]

I am sorry that I forgot that you are a genius that has never made an error in his life.

GROW UP AND STOP BEING SO CRITICAL OF EVERYONE, YOU MY FRIEND ARE NO BETTER THEN ANYBODY ELSE THAT POSTS HERE, SO GET A LIFE.


________
David-LV

Uh oh. Bolded letters. Someone means business. I wasn't the one who corrected you last night. I just agreed with it.

[David-LV]

Uh oh. Bolded letters. Someone means business. I wasn't the one who corrected you last night. I just agreed with it.

Hopefully we can agree to disagree in a much friendly manner, this is not life and death, we are only talking about horse racing here. :) :)

________
David-LV

[the little guy]

Hopefully we can agree to disagree in a much friendly manner, this is not life and death, we are only talking about horse racing here. :) :)

________
David-LV


You don't post in a " friendly manner " when it suits you. You're frequently intentionally antagonistic.

[David-LV]

You don't post in a " friendly manner " when it suits you. You're frequently intentionally antagonistic.

I disagree with you. I have an opinion just like you and I try never to get personal. If I rub you the wrong way then I am sorry.

I wonder if I was on your side on many of the discussions if you would still say that I'm frequently intentionally antagonistic.?

There seem to be a group up here that thinks that they know everything about everything, and everybody else are just dummies.

Believe me I am no dummy and I know exactly what I am doing when I post.

I try sometimes to push buttons so that the subject we are discussing becomes more interesting.

If I pushed your buttons the wrong way then I really am sorry because I know that you are a stand up guy and do an excellent job, but I try to keep the conversations lively otherwise if we all agreed on everything this would be one giant bore fest.

Like you I am also looking forward to the opening of Saratoga and hope that they have a banner meet. I love and have made big money thru the years on the great turf races that are offered.

You never ever read a post of mine that said I don't bet New York Racing and the only thing that could change that is if they were to install synthetic surfaces.

I grew up at Aqueduct, Belmont, Yonkers, and Roosevelt Raceway during the late 50's right until I moved to Las Vegas in 1972 and have always had a soft spot in my heart for the good old days. I guess that is what happens as you get older. Sorry again if I offended you, it's not and was not intentional.

_________
David-LV

[Dahoss9698]

Believe me I am no dummy and I know exactly what I am doing when I post.

I try sometimes to push buttons so that the subject we are discussing becomes more interesting.



_________
David-LV

Did it ever occur to you that you might not be the only one doing this?

When you do it, it's innocent. When I do it, I'm attacking. It's a ridiculous double standard. I know how it's gets spread, through the pm train by a few clueless phonies (not saying you), but I am not trying to get personal with you. I don't know you at all, aside from what you post. It's rarely if ever personal with anything I post and definitely not with you.

[David-LV]

Did it ever occur to you that you might not be the only one doing this?

When you do it, it's innocent. When I do it, I'm attacking. It's a ridiculous double standard. I know how it's gets spread, through the pm train by a few clueless phonies (not saying you), but I am not trying to get personal with you. I don't know you at all, aside from what you post. It's rarely if ever personal with anything I post and definitely not with you.

Thank you.

________
David-LV

[PaceAdvantage]

I think the "Monmouth boys" came here and wanted to talk about Monmouth and how they're at least making an attempt to do some good things. I believe it was a few bad apples who came in and spoiled these threads with the us vs them arguments.No sir. Not in the beginning for sure. From the beginning, it has basically been "this is going to be hell for NYRA/Belmont."

The "Monmouth Boys" have been "pressing buttons" from the very start.

[Stillriledup]

No sir. Not in the beginning for sure. From the beginning, it has basically been "this is going to be hell for NYRA/Belmont."

The "Monmouth Boys" have been "pressing buttons" from the very start.

Button pressing can only be effective if you are very sensitive to begin with. If NYRA was flourishing and dominating and running 12 horse fields with 20 million dollar handles, i doubt that anyone who was a fan of NYRA would be the least bit offended or irritated by anything posted by Monmouth fans.

[Dahoss9698]

Button pressing can only be effective if you are very sensitive to begin with. If NYRA was flourishing and dominating and running 12 horse fields with 20 million dollar handles, i doubt that anyone who was a fan of NYRA would be the least bit offended or irritated by anything posted by Monmouth fans.

Just to clear some (more) of your incorrect assumptions. No one is offended or irritated at all. I'm interested in showing both sides, fairly. Some aren't. But you should read your first sentence and try and implement it when you have your little whine fests about how mean I am and what a likeable (cheap shot throwing) guy you are.

[The_Knight_Sky]

The entries for Friday are out as of Sunday evening.

Is that enough of a head start on 'capping?

140 horses entered for the 12 races.


http://i26.tinypic.com/2z8swu1.gif Rah. http://i26.tinypic.com/2z8swu1.gif Rah. http://i26.tinypic.com/2z8swu1.gif and Rah !


We're slacking off David.

Only 120 horses pre-entered for Saturday.

Press some "buttons" on your end, will you? :lol: Rah Rah !!

[PaceAdvantage]

Well, I must say this is starting to get downright silly. Good thing I can press buttons too... :lol:

[alhattab]

Can NJ horse racing stand on its own without getting a large amounts of money from some other source. The answer to that is NO. I could run a heck of a used car business if I got a bunch of free money from the casinos. If you can't pay your own way as a business then you are a failure. Monmouth Park is no closer to being able to stand on its own two feet than it was after it ran it last race in 2009. It is so sad because they could have spent the "seed" money on things that would have gone a long way toward making it profitable. Instead after this year, they will go back to short fields and small handles and be out of business in a few years. I am no fan of Texas racing, but they have much better handle to purse ratio than Monmouth. The ratio of handle to purse money has gotten worse this year in NJ. The old sarcastic saying of "I am losing money, but I am making it up in volume" was never more true than in NJ racing in 2010.

What are your numbers for Texas?

[Robert Goren]

What are your numbers for Texas?I have rechecked my numbers and Monmouth does better than Texas. Both are a long way from being a stand alone business model.

[Dahoss9698]

Any truth to the rumor that the two stakes on Sunday each failed to fill?

[alhattab]

Any truth to the rumor that the two stakes on Sunday each failed to fill?

That does appear to be the case. I'm not that surprised about the 3YO filly sprint- I think these typically draw small fields. The other is a starter hcp on the grass that is part of a series and I'm really surprised that didn't fill.

By the way, there has been much mention of the same crappy horses running at Monmouth, just for more money. Clearly that is true for the j-bred races and the lower level claimers. However, some of the maiden races have been outstanding. There was a loaded baby race a few weeks ago, and look at the first on Saturday- 1/2 to Zenyatta entered and a few other well-bred horses in there. There has been a clear difference in these races- races where you really want to be in the paddock/walking ring to see the horses.