Turf Figs

[PhantomOnTour]

Who makes figs for the turf, and are they the standard 'dirt style' speed and pace figs or like Quinn illustrates in his book (3rd fraction figs)?

If you mimic Quinn's figs have you found a single Alw par to be sufficient to base all your figs on? Isn't that akin to measuring dirt figs vs a single par rather than class pars?

Currently, I am doing my turf figs like Quinn with a 3rd fraction rating and a pace designation of slow, avg or fast. The pace in turf routes can vary wildly and within a large range (esp races over 9f!) so my zero adj pace range is quite large. I hesistate to do a pace rating and 3rd fraction rating together (isn't that just final time anyway??). I have done my best to assemble turf pars for Belmont for both courses and all the rail settings...nevermind the bottle of JD, this requires some absinthe to get thru! Throw in the run-up variable and you've got yourself one hot mess, sir.

Finally, what do you do with sprints? Rate them on the same Quinn method as routes? Surely speed is more valuable here (for 5f-6f races at least)and a pace fig is required imo.

Thanks for your input folks.

[andymays]

Just my opinion but I think turf races are more difficult to make accurate figures because rail positions are always changing and run up distances change a lot more on a turf course. It's a little harder to take the pace into account.

[GaryG]

I assign race shapes to turf routes and then relate the final fraction to the shape. Class and trips are critical as well. I find turf sprints to be very difficult, so I rarely play them.

[Tom]

Look into Quinn's turf numbers in Figure Handicapping.
I streamlined it from using CLF ALW pars to just using 24-30-36 seconds for all tracks as my 100 ratings. The value of a beaten length changes with distance, so a horse gets credit for a longer sustained finish. Work well for me at all tracks. Just be aware of the pace - he covers it all. I have been killing turf routes at Bel, Sar, AP, SA, WO for years.

Turf sprints - I do not consider them turf.

[xfile]

I find that TURN TIME RATINGS are very helpful in turf races.

[PhantomOnTour]

I find that TURN TIME RATINGS are very helpful in turf races.
Nice point. Some folks rate turf races on the last two fractions, which would include turn time. That may be my off season project this winter (I have one every year!)...messing around with a turn time/3rd fraction rating. Many a horse can run the stretch swiftly and go from 8th place to 4th place, but can they get into position on the turn?

[illinoisbred]

If there has been no weather change and the portable rail hasn't been moved,I lump 2-3 days together to get a better idea on the variant. My turf pars for the 3 tracks I follow are more compressed in their range than the opposing dirt pars. Also, I make 1/2 mile pace figures too-sometimes very useful,sometimes worthless depending on rail placement and runup.

[exiles]

Who makes figs for the turf, and are they the standard 'dirt style' speed and pace figs or like Quinn illustrates in his book (3rd fraction figs)?

If you mimic Quinn's figs have you found a single Alw par to be sufficient to base all your figs on? Isn't that akin to measuring dirt figs vs a single par rather than class pars?

Currently, I am doing my turf figs like Quinn with a 3rd fraction rating and a pace designation of slow, avg or fast. The pace in turf routes can vary wildly and within a large range (esp races over 9f!) so my zero adj pace range is quite large. I hesistate to do a pace rating and 3rd fraction rating together (isn't that just final time anyway??). I have done my best to assemble turf pars for Belmont for both courses and all the rail settings...nevermind the bottle of JD, this requires some absinthe to get thru! Throw in the run-up variable and you've got yourself one hot mess, sir.

Finally, what do you do with sprints? Rate them on the same Quinn method as routes? Surely speed is more valuable here (for 5f-6f races at least)and a pace fig is required imo.

Thanks for your input folks.

If you want the most accurate turf figures,you have to buy Len Ragozins the SHEETS but at $35 per track per day,or $5 per race, 3 races minimum , only the heavy hitters can afford them.

[thaskalos]

If you want the most accurate turf figures,you have to buy Len Ragozins the SHEETS but at $35 per track per day,or $5 per race, 3 races minimum , only the heavy hitters can afford them. Not all of us can hit $90k pick-6es...

[JohnGalt1]

I stole/borrowed this advice from Pizolla--Use all turf races to find the fastest and most representative pace line. Use it unless it's not absurdly fast.

And don't use track variants since many days only one turf race is run

[lamboguy]

If you want the most accurate turf figures,you have to buy Len Ragozins the SHEETS but at $35 per track per day,or $5 per race, 3 races minimum , only the heavy hitters can afford them.
i can tell you that what you pay for racing forms, sheet numbers and any other type of numbers are nothing but a waste of money if that is all you use to try to pick a winner.

i just started using what i consider an outstanding set of pace numbers. it helps me when i have a horse to bet in the race to figure out where he will be situted. if i like where he is going to be i play him, if not i pass.

[exiles]

Not all of us can hit $90k pick-6es...

The SHEETS had a lot to do w/ that score.