Good Move By Del Mar

[Horseplayersbet.com]

50 Cent Pick 4's:
http://www.dmtc.com/racinginfo/news.php#4

I think that is the optimum price for that bet. I think 20 cent pick 4's that Woodbine offers to its customers are way too low.

20 cent supers are good, but 10 cent supers are too low.

Of course, this is my opinion, but I think I might be right when looking for the optimum handle.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, Del Mar is making a good move for the bettor on this one.

[point given]

Horseplayersbet.com]50 Cent Pick 4's:[/b]
http://www.dmtc.com/racinginfo/news.php#4

I think that is the optimum price for that bet. I think 20 cent pick 4's that Woodbine offers to its customers are way too low.

20 cent supers are good, but 10 cent supers are too low.

Of course, this is my opinion, but I think I might be right when looking for the optimum handle.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, Del Mar is making a good move for the bettor on this one.

It's only optimal if they have enough horses per race. Given Hollywoods 5-6 horse fields it would be ludicrous there , we shall see if the horses show at DelMar.

[The_Knight_Sky]

50 Cent Pick 4's:
http://www.dmtc.com/racinginfo/news.php#4

I think that is the optimum price for that bet.



Speaking of price....

The optimal price is a 15% takeout rate.

Is Del Mar offering that or is this another one
of the half-baked ideas destined to the trash can http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/images/UBGX/S10.gif

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Speaking of price....

The optimal price is a 15% takeout rate.

Is Del Mar offering that or is this another one
of the half-baked ideas destined to the trash can http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/images/UBGX/S10.gif
I don't disagree that optimum takeout for Pick 4's is in the 12-15% range, but relative to the rest of the industry, at 20.68% Del Mar has many tracks beat.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

It's only optimal if they have enough horses per race. Given Hollywoods 5-6 horse fields it would be ludicrous there , we shall see if the horses show at DelMar.
Point taken.

[Stillriledup]

A better move would be to get rid of polycrap and go back to conventional dirt.

[The_Knight_Sky]

I don't disagree that optimum takeout for Pick 4's is in the 12-15% range, but relative to the rest of the industry, at 20.68% Del Mar has many tracks beat.




I think it is in Del Mar's best interest to use such a Pick 4 to stimulate wagering on the individual races that comprises the Pick 4.

A creation of a new localized wager should have a modern price attached to it, at a level that ensures its popularity nationwide. Instead Del Mar is introducing yet another difficult wager that is taxed beyond the 20% range.

What is stopping racetracks from doing what it should be doing - practicing the Less is More concept.

[andymays]

It's only optimal if they have enough horses per race. Given Hollywoods 5-6 horse fields it would be ludicrous there , we shall see if the horses show at DelMar.


HORSE RACING: Del Mar working to avoid problems

http://www.nctimes.com/sports/equestrian/racing/article_d9dcce8a-3c34-5a69-8608-41bc6bd6289a.html

Excerpt:

Robbins said he doesn't anticipate problems filling races the first two or last two weeks of the meet. However, he does have some concerns about the middle three weeks of the seven-week meet, which ends on Sept. 8.

"In the middle period, you just don't get the horses recycling like they use to," Robbins said. "If I had any concern, that would be it."

In the past, trainers had horses run every two weeks, but over the last few decades that has stretched to three weeks or a month, creating more headaches for racing secretaries.

At the end of Del Mar, many trainers want to get their horses into races -- particularly on the grass -- before the circuit moves to the fair circuit at Fairplex Park in Pomona, which doesn't have a grass course, while racing on a five-eighths dirt oval.

There is also the statewide issue of fewer horses available to run as some owners have gotten out of the business because of the nationwide economic downturn.

[rrbauer]

I no longer follow Calif racing on a daily basis but isn't this just a "me too" move? The only innovation that's come out of this state, as far as racing is concerned, is the synthetic tracks; and, boy did that ever grow the game! :confused:

[Vinman]

I had let the folks at NYRA know about the 50 cent Pick 4 at DMR as soon as I heard about it a month or two ago.

Would that news move them to finally get off the dime (super :) and go to a 50 cent Pick 4 in time for Saratoga? Of course not.

Can anyone confirm that NYRA is at least going to begin taking the Monmouth Pick 5 at the 50 cent level starting this weekend?

Vinman

[InsideThePylons-MW]

The only innovation that's come out of this state, as far as racing is concerned, is the synthetic tracks

What about Bo Derek being placed on the CHRB?

That's innovation at it's finest.

[xfile]

awesome

[point given]

I had let the folks at NYRA know about the 50 cent Pick 4 at DMR as soon as I heard about it a month or two ago.

Would that news move them to finally get off the dime (super :) and go to a 50 cent Pick 4 in time for Saratoga? Of course not.

Can anyone confirm that NYRA is at least going to begin taking the Monmouth Pick 5 at the 50 cent level starting this weekend?

Vinman


NYRA announced today that they are starting friday, tomorrow with the 50 cent p5 from Monmouth.

Now, if Monmouth would start offering 50 cent P4 and rolling p3s :ThmbUp:

[carlonr]

The overlooked item in this press release is the $2(minimum) parlay. For serious handicappers, this is absolutely huge. All of the other California tracks have stopped making this bet available.

[andymays]

The overlooked item in this press release is the $2(minimum) parlay. For serious handicappers, this is absolutely huge. All of the other California tracks have stopped making this bet available.


No Parlays Carl. Unfortunately they will not be taking parlay bets. They were discontinued after last years meet.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

No Parlays Carl. Unfortunately they will not be taking parlay bets. They were discontinued after last years meet.
Why do you need parlay bets when there are doubles and pick 3's every race, and over 90% of the time, these bets pay more than what a parlay would.

[andymays]

Why do you need parlay bets when there are doubles and pick 3's every race, and over 90% of the time, these bets pay more than what a parlay would.


The parlay was the best bet at the track. Not only that it was the most fun. The problem was that they didn't promote it at all.

Double, P3's, P4's, P5's and all the other hight takeout wagers are designed with shit races in between most of the sequences.

What's wrong with making a two horse win and place parlay on your two best bets of the day? The best bet I ever made was a parlay like that.

In addition it's also fun to be able to make a 6 horse parlay using some to show, some to place and some to win. Or just make a show parlay.

What is wrong with having the option?

[Horseplayersbet.com]

The parlay was the best bet at the track. Not only that it was the most fun. The problem was that they didn't promote it at all.

Double, P3's, P4's, P5's and all the other hight takeout wagers are designed with shit races in between most of the sequences.

What's wrong with making a two horse win and place parlay on your two best bets of the day? The best bet I ever made was a parlay like that.

In addition it's also fun to be able to make a 6 horse parlay using some to show, some to place and some to win. Or just make a show parlay.

What is wrong with having the option?
When I was 12 I tried show parlays, you don't need a pool to do it.

[andymays]

When I was 12 I tried show parlays, you don't need a pool to do it.


Don't get your point.

I made a 6 horse place and show parlay at Del Mar once and got back over 7k and I started with 50 bucks. The two horse w-p parlay I made was for over 50k. What's wrong with having the option?

Not only that the parlay is one of the few wagers that you can't bet online. I know several people who would go the track/satellite just to turn one in and stay a race or two. Now most of us stay home and bet.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Don't get your point.

I made a 6 horse place and show parlay at Del Mar once and got back over 7k and I started with 50 bucks. The two horse w-p parlay I made was for over 50k. What's wrong with having the option?

Not only that the parlay is one of the few wagers that you can't bet online. I know several people who would go the track/satellite just to turn one in and stay a race or two. Now most of us stay home and bet.
You always have the option to do it manually. You don't even have to stick with one track.

[andymays]

You always have the option to do it manually. You don't even have to stick with one track.


Most people can't or won't parlay the whole amount when it gets big. With the parlay you can't stop it. You can also make a parlay and leave. When you do it manually things can happen.

At the books in Tijuana I used to get my four best bets for the day and make a 4 horse round robin with different tracks. With today's software that shouldn't be that hard to do.

[OTM Al]

I had let the folks at NYRA know about the 50 cent Pick 4 at DMR as soon as I heard about it a month or two ago.

Would that news move them to finally get off the dime (super :) and go to a 50 cent Pick 4 in time for Saratoga? Of course not.

Can anyone confirm that NYRA is at least going to begin taking the Monmouth Pick 5 at the 50 cent level starting this weekend?

Vinman

There is a banner here on the NYRA rewards site

https://wagering.nyra.com/

I was pretty sure that I heard on the ad I mentioned to you that they also said they would take it on track, which makes sense because NYRA Rewards does work with live and automated tellers.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Most people can't or won't parlay the whole amount when it gets big. With the parlay you can't stop it. You can also make a parlay and leave. When you do it manually things can happen.

At the books in Tijuana I used to get my four best bets for the day and make a 4 horse round robin with different tracks. With today's software that shouldn't be that hard to do.
Problem is that I can see it being grey area illegal. For example, how does a track parlay $4.60? It can't bet the 60 cents to win. Is that just automatically carried over, and only $4 is bet?
I never saw a parlay bet offered anywhere, but I assume they had it in California....is that how they did it?

[andymays]

Problem is that I can see it being grey area illegal. For example, how does a track parlay $4.60? It can't bet the 60 cents to win. Is that just automatically carried over, and only $4 is bet?
I never saw a parlay bet offered anywhere, but I assume they had it in California....is that how they did it?


Everything collected on the bet goes on the next bet. You may be right and the change is not bet on the next one but I don't think so. rwwupl would know where to look for the rules. I think they're still up at the CHRB website.

It's a low takeout bet and it's a real bet.

This business where Joe Handicapper bets a 50 cent pick 3 and goes 3 by 4 by all and then hopes for a 30-1 shot in the last leg is B.S. Then the guy runs around telling everyone he had a $60 horse and hit a big pick 3. Guys like that drive me insane when they brag about their handicapping.

[OTM Al]

I know it's not CA but here is the NY rule, which is likely similar as this is an old type of bet

(b) The parlay is not a pari-mutuel pool, but is a series of bets combining betting entries in win, place, show or proposition pools in each of two or more separate races in chronological order. The initial amount bet constitutes the bet on the first betting entry in the first parlay race (leg); if successful, the payoff from winning the first leg (to the lowest penny) is then bet on the betting entry designated in the second leg; if again successful, and if the parlay continues, the payoff from winning the second leg is then bet (to the lowest penny) in the third leg; etc.

[andymays]

I know it's not CA but here is the NY rule, which is likely similar as this is an old type of bet

(b) The parlay is not a pari-mutuel pool, but is a series of bets combining betting entries in win, place, show or proposition pools in each of two or more separate races in chronological order. The initial amount bet constitutes the bet on the first betting entry in the first parlay race (leg); if successful, the payoff from winning the first leg (to the lowest penny) is then bet on the betting entry designated in the second leg; if again successful, and if the parlay continues, the payoff from winning the second leg is then bet (to the lowest penny) in the third leg; etc.


That sounds about right. If I remember right the explanation in California is a lot longer but basically the same.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

I know it's not CA but here is the NY rule, which is likely similar as this is an old type of bet

(b) The parlay is not a pari-mutuel pool, but is a series of bets combining betting entries in win, place, show or proposition pools in each of two or more separate races in chronological order. The initial amount bet constitutes the bet on the first betting entry in the first parlay race (leg); if successful, the payoff from winning the first leg (to the lowest penny) is then bet on the betting entry designated in the second leg; if again successful, and if the parlay continues, the payoff from winning the second leg is then bet (to the lowest penny) in the third leg; etc.
How are they able to bet to the lowest penny and not the lowest dollar?

[andymays]

Del Mar still hasn't taken down the parlay wager in the betting menu but they will. They do not offer a parlay.

http://www.dmtc.com/racinginfo/news.php#4

[Igeteven]

50 Cent Pick 4's:
http://www.dmtc.com/racinginfo/news.php#4

I think that is the optimum price for that bet. I think 20 cent pick 4's that Woodbine offers to its customers are way too low.

20 cent supers are good, but 10 cent supers are too low.

Of course, this is my opinion, but I think I might be right when looking for the optimum handle.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, Del Mar is making a good move for the bettor on this one.

No you are wrong, frictional betting is the way to go, let the people bet what they want to, (no pennies or nickels), but 10 cent and up, and why not.

This would bring more money into the game. People are a habit of nature, they will not change their betting style for nothing. (I know one),

So what can the tracks loose, nothing but have a gain.

Here is the problem, the bean counters want only large bets or wheel , wheel, and wheel.

Until the game goes to nothing and it's almost there, nothing will change until they have too.

Del Mar is going to a fifty cent pick 4, because they wanted too, hell no, they were forced to do it.

[rwwupl]

Everything collected on the bet goes on the next bet. You may be right and the change is not bet on the next one but I don't think so. rwwupl would know where to look for the rules. I think they're still up at the CHRB website.

It's a low takeout bet and it's a real bet.

This business where Joe Handicapper bets a 50 cent pick 3 and goes 3 by 4 by all and then hopes for a 30-1 shot in the last leg is B.S. Then the guy runs around telling everyone he had a $60 horse and hit a big pick 3. Guys like that drive me insane when they brag about their handicapping.


It is a real bet, the problem is that it is of such low volume that the bet takers do not want to fool with it...there has to be a way for the bet takers to accept it, to be prepared to process the bet .

The rule is live and in place...


CHRB, Display of Rule No. 1954.1 , "Parlay Wagering on Win, Place or Show."


Rule No. Rule Title
1954.1 Parlay Wagering on Win, Place or Show.
Rule Text (a) The parlay is not a separate mutuel pool, it is a series of wagers (consisting of legs) combining wagering entries in Win, Place or Show pools. The initial amount wagered constitutes the wager on the first leg, and if successful, the payout from the first leg constitutes the wager on the second leg, etc. (b) A parlay wager is limited to Win, Place or Show which have a corresponding pool conducted on the race selected. The wager must combine at least two races but not more than six races. The races in a parlay must be in chronological order but do not need to be consecutive races or combine the same type pool. (c) A parlay wager may only be on one pool and one wagering interest per leg and cannot combine wagers on races on other days. (d) Payouts included as wagers in subsequent races and the final payout to the parlay wagerer shall be broken to the nearest dime. Parlay breakage shall be reported separately and added to regular breakage at the end of the day for the purpose of taxation and distribution. (e) Parlay payouts will be included as wagers in subsequent pools by the track operator so the amount of such wagers, including their impact on the wagering odds, will be displayed. Wager totals in such pools shall be displayed in truncated fashion, to the lowest dollar. (f) Parlay wagers may be cancelled by the ticket holder, in accordance with track policy, only before the start of the first parlay leg in which a parlay selection starts. Parlay wagers not cancelled must be completed or terminated by operation of these rules in order to be entitled to a payout. (g) If a race, pool or wagering entry in a parlay is scratched, which includes an entry being declared a non-starter for wagering purposes, or a race or pool is cancelled, the parlay shall consist of the remaining legs. The parlay terminates if there are no remaining legs. (h) A wager on a coupled entry or field is considered a wager on the remaining part of the coupled entry or field if any part of the coupled entry or field starts for parimutuel purposes in accordance with Rule 1974 of this Article. NOTE: Authority cited: Section 19590, Business and Professions Code. Reference: Sections 19594, 19597 and 19598, Business and Professions Code. HISTORY: 1. New rule filed 2-8-95; effective 2-8-95. 2. Amendment filed 12-23-96; effective 1-22-97.

[andymays]

It is a real bet, the problem is that it is of such low volume that the bet takers do not want to fool with it...there has to be a way for the bet takers to accept it, to be prepared to process the bet .

The rule is live and in place...


CHRB, Display of Rule No. 1954.1 , "Parlay Wagering on Win, Place or Show."


Rule No. Rule Title
1954.1 Parlay Wagering on Win, Place or Show.
Rule Text (a) The parlay is not a separate mutuel pool, it is a series of wagers (consisting of legs) combining wagering entries in Win, Place or Show pools. The initial amount wagered constitutes the wager on the first leg, and if successful, the payout from the first leg constitutes the wager on the second leg, etc. (b) A parlay wager is limited to Win, Place or Show which have a corresponding pool conducted on the race selected. The wager must combine at least two races but not more than six races. The races in a parlay must be in chronological order but do not need to be consecutive races or combine the same type pool. (c) A parlay wager may only be on one pool and one wagering interest per leg and cannot combine wagers on races on other days. (d) Payouts included as wagers in subsequent races and the final payout to the parlay wagerer shall be broken to the nearest dime. Parlay breakage shall be reported separately and added to regular breakage at the end of the day for the purpose of taxation and distribution. (e) Parlay payouts will be included as wagers in subsequent pools by the track operator so the amount of such wagers, including their impact on the wagering odds, will be displayed. Wager totals in such pools shall be displayed in truncated fashion, to the lowest dollar. (f) Parlay wagers may be cancelled by the ticket holder, in accordance with track policy, only before the start of the first parlay leg in which a parlay selection starts. Parlay wagers not cancelled must be completed or terminated by operation of these rules in order to be entitled to a payout. (g) If a race, pool or wagering entry in a parlay is scratched, which includes an entry being declared a non-starter for wagering purposes, or a race or pool is cancelled, the parlay shall consist of the remaining legs. The parlay terminates if there are no remaining legs. (h) A wager on a coupled entry or field is considered a wager on the remaining part of the coupled entry or field if any part of the coupled entry or field starts for parimutuel purposes in accordance with Rule 1974 of this Article. NOTE: Authority cited: Section 19590, Business and Professions Code. Reference: Sections 19594, 19597 and 19598, Business and Professions Code. HISTORY: 1. New rule filed 2-8-95; effective 2-8-95. 2. Amendment filed 12-23-96; effective 1-22-97.


The bet was never promoted. Quite a few people like myself would go to satellite or live racing to put in a parlay because you can't bet one on line. I understand that it was a low volume wager but it attracted some people to the track that made other bets as well.

If I were a track I would have a contest everyday where you give away prize money for whoever cashes the biggest 6 horse parlay for the day. I could be any combination of w-p-s over six races. You would have to go to a particular window to record the winning wager and enter the contest. You could make the contest anywhere from a $2 bet on up. Then you advertise the winning ROI in your promotions along with the $500 or $1000 in prize money.

Parlays are fun to play and they were never promoted correctly.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Good way to get extra breakage by the track. They get to break down to the dollar throughout the parlay.

[andymays]

Good way to get extra breakage by the track. They get to break down to the dollar throughout the parlay.


Do you want to eliminate w-p-s wagering? That's what you're telling me when you knock parlays.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Do you want to eliminate w-p-s wagering? That's what you're telling me when you knock parlays.
How do you get that? If a horse in the first leg pays $6.90, the track gets 90 cents that you could have got by doing the parlay yourself.
That is my only point here.

[andymays]

How do you get that? If a horse in the first leg pays $6.90, the track gets 90 cents that you could have got by doing the parlay yourself.
That is my only point here.


Are you sure that's the case? I read it that the 90 cents is parlayed. If I'm wrong then you have a great point.

[Igeteven]

Do you want to eliminate w-p-s wagering? That's what you're telling me when you knock parlays.

Who cares what the customer bets , I am not promoting going to the window to bet 10 cents, however, on line or at the automatic betting window with a card filled out already, why not.

The software is in place and ready to go

[andymays]

Who cares what the customer bets , I am not promoting going to the window to bet 10 cents, however, on line or at the automatic betting window with a card filled out already, why not.

The software is in place and ready to go


They really just don't want to pay to print the parlay cards. That's the real reason for discontinuing them.

[Igeteven]

They really just don't want to pay to print the parlay cards. That's the real reason for discontinuing them.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[miesque]

And to think all this time I thought that there was only one type of pari-mutuel wager that I had never made, the Quinella. I guess I can now add the Parlay to that list.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Are you sure that's the case? I read it that the 90 cents is parlayed. If I'm wrong then you have a great point.
The money gets bet in the parimutuel pool. You can't be 10 cents or 90 cents to win on a horse. If you read what was posted, the track gets to keep the breakage by the looks of it, and the change is called breakage as well by the looks of it.

[andymays]

The money gets bet in the parimutuel pool. You can't be 10 cents or 90 cents to win on a horse. If you read what was posted, the track gets to keep the breakage by the looks of it, and the change is called breakage as well by the looks of it.


And when you parlay it yourself what happens? You either round the bet up or down to the nearest dollar. I guess if you make a 6 horse parlay and leave it's worth the convenience.

There is no reason for a track not to offer the bet other than the cost of printing the parlay cards.