To clean up California Horse Racing the following is a must.

[Igeteven]

We all write and complain, that is the nature of horse players, trainers and owners, however, here in California it falls to one man and a board.

We all know who he is and we all know who the board members are.

What I see to fix some of the problems. Once this is in place, the rest will follow in place.

1. Replace the track to dirt.

2. Lower the take out to 10% and 15 percent on all bets

3. Give the horse owner a starter fee of a $1000.00 to race his or her horse.

4. Make sure the Stewart's enforce the rules to the letter. Right now, they're afraid to open their mouth.

5. Regular race tracks shouldn't charge for parking or admission. If casino did this, nobody would show up. with a lower take out, people will come and bet on the track or on line.

6. Make sure that a trainer stables his horse on track, the horse must run at least 3 times during the major season or the horse owner and trainer will be fined. There is no room in a stable for a horse that will not run during the season. The horse can stay on the farm where he belongs.

7. lower the bets to Kentucky style of betting.

8. Eliminate the pick 6 carry over, this is poison for players

If this goes into place, one will see a whole new ball game out here.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...6. Make sure that a trainer stables his horse on track, the horse must run at least 3 times during the major season or the horse owner and trainer will be fined. There is no room in a stable for a horse that will not run during the season. The horse can stay on the farm where he belongs.
...

You need to work on this mandate. You almost never so much as see a horse "stuck" any more if he tries to scratch without good cause. Force a horse to run, watch him suffer an injury or in some way become devalued, and then spend a fortune in attorney fees.

Most places have participation requirements and those that fail to meet the criteria are rewarded with fewer stalls when they next apply. Of course, if you don't have anyone else interested in using the stalls, then there's no real reason to NOT give them to a known deadbeat. Who knows, maybe he will run this year but the non-existent trainer certainly won't.

[Igeteven]

Here is another issue to clean up

If any trainer gets caught using an illegal drug, first offense, one year off with no pay, second time around, he is gone


also, the horse must go to another trainer, he can't ever have that horse in his barn ever again

This would reduce the drug problem out here by 50 percent.

The CHRB does have the power to make any trainer sign a statement to accept these terms, so the trainer can't go crying to his lawyer.

[jamey1977]

We all write and complain, that is the nature of horse players, trainers and owners, however, here in California it falls to one man and a board.

We all know who he is and we all know who the board members are.

What I see to fix some of the problems. Once this is in place, the rest will follow in place.

1. Replace the track to dirt.

2. Lower the take out to 10% and 15 percent on all bets

3. Give the horse owner a starter fee of a $1000.00 to race his or her horse.

4. Make sure the Stewart's enforce the rules to the letter. Right now, they're afraid to open their mouth.

5. Regular race tracks shouldn't charge for parking or admission. If casino did this, nobody would show up. with a lower take out, people will come and bet on the track or on line.

6. Make sure that a trainer stables his horse on track, the horse must run at least 3 times during the major season or the horse owner and trainer will be fined. There is no room in a stable for a horse that will not run during the season. The horse can stay on the farm where he belongs.

7. lower the bets to Kentucky style of betting.

8. Eliminate the pick 6 carry over, this is poison for players

If this goes into place, one will see a whole new ball game out here.
They Should Hire You. I Agree With Every Single Idea. Every Time A Race Card is Cancelled. Millions Of Dollars Are Lost By Everyone. Put Those Non-Entering Horses On The Farm. They Ain't Running Horse Apartments. Horses Are There To Be Raced Not Housed Forever. What A Disgrace. Because Of This Crap All Of Us Are Starting To Play Multiple Circuits. Thanks Southern Calif. For Making Us All Leave. Some Might Never Come Back.

[carlonr]

We all write and complain, that is the nature of horse players, trainers and owners, however, here in California it falls to one man and a board.

We all know who he is and we all know who the board members are.

What I see to fix some of the problems. Once this is in place, the rest will follow in place.

1. Replace the track to dirt.

2. Lower the take out to 10% and 15 percent on all bets

3. Give the horse owner a starter fee of a $1000.00 to race his or her horse.

4. Make sure the Stewart's enforce the rules to the letter. Right now, they're afraid to open their mouth.

5. Regular race tracks shouldn't charge for parking or admission. If casino did this, nobody would show up. with a lower take out, people will come and bet on the track or on line.

6. Make sure that a trainer stables his horse on track, the horse must run at least 3 times during the major season or the horse owner and trainer will be fined. There is no room in a stable for a horse that will not run during the season. The horse can stay on the farm where he belongs.

7. lower the bets to Kentucky style of betting.

8. Eliminate the pick 6 carry over, this is poison for players

If this goes into place, one will see a whole new ball game out here.



What is your reasoning for eliminating the pick 6 carryover?

[BluegrassProf]

If any trainer gets caught using an illegal drug, first offense, one year off with no pay, second time around, he is gone

also, the horse must go to another trainer, he can't ever have that horse in his barn ever again

The CHRB does have the power to make any trainer sign a statement to accept these terms, so the trainer can't go crying to his lawyer.Makes sense to me. Zero tolerance, si?

'Cause zero tolerance is AWESOME, and the stewards are always right - lawyers and representation be damned!

:faint:

(*Note to self: smear a li'l lidocaine on the bottom of everyone else's shoes and send in the dogs...it's my time to shine, baby!)

This would reduce the drug problem out here by 50 percent.Or reduce the trainer population by 90% - not because they're all doping like mad and scared of sanctions, but because that's an outlandish proposition for people that work in an environment that's completely disorganized (ever spent time around the backside? accidental or intentional contamination is a legitimate concern for everyone, dopers or otherwise, and those kinds of sanctions aren't going to get support, regardless of good intentions).

If I've got horses in CA and am suddenly faced with these demands (not that they'd ever fly) - do I stick around? Ha! I'm on the first flight back east.

[JustRalph]

"Steward"

A grand a pop to start huh?

A ten horse race just got very expensive..............compared to the purses available

[Igeteven]

Makes sense to me. Zero tolerance, si?

'Cause zero tolerance is AWESOME, and the stewards are always right - lawyers and representation be damned!

:faint:

(*Note to self: smear a li'l lidocaine on the bottom of everyone else's shoes and send in the dogs...it's my time to shine, baby!)

Or reduce the trainer population by 90% - not because they're all doping like mad and scared of sanctions, but because that's an outlandish proposition for people that work in an environment that's completely disorganized (ever spent time around the backside? accidental or intentional contamination is a legitimate concern for everyone, dopers or otherwise, and those kinds of sanctions aren't going to get support, regardless of good intentions).

If I've got horses in CA and am suddenly faced with these demands (not that they'd ever fly) - do I stick around? Ha! I'm on the first flight back east.


Unless strict demands are made, we will never clean up the problem out here

[Igeteven]

What is your reasoning for eliminating the pick 6 carryover?


I don't like it, for one main reason, only the insiders ever hit the big one's or Lewiston Ma, comes in and take it out.

As to the average player, it's only a dream and take a hard look at TVG, they're always selling a dream.

That's marketing.

Yes, one can hit a small one, however, when it comes to the high one,s one can be lucky or I can hit the lottery.


As you notice, handicapping has almost gone out and the tracks are promoting numbers and wheel , wheel, wheel, I prefer handicapping above anything else.

There are a lot of people against the carry over, some other member will post more on this.

[Igeteven]

They Should Hire You. I Agree With Every Single Idea. Every Time A Race Card is Cancelled. Millions Of Dollars Are Lost By Everyone. Put Those Non-Entering Horses On The Farm. They Ain't Running Horse Apartments. Horses Are There To Be Raced Not Housed Forever. What A Disgrace. Because Of This Crap All Of Us Are Starting To Play Multiple Circuits. Thanks Southern Calif. For Making Us All Leave. Some Might Never Come Back.

One more thing, other states have full fields, why not here, I tell you why,

most of the horse here are over price, I would ship in horses from around the nation and drop the purse prize, with a grand to start your horse, thousand would ship in.

California's over head is ridiculous. 3500 per month to take care of a horse

vet bills are so high, hay is so high, shoeing a horse is so high

not in other states

[Robert Goren]

The sad part of it is that when they do run, they are almost always 1st or 2nd in handle for that day.

[delayjf]

8. Eliminate the pick 6 carry over, this is poison for players

Disagree - The Socal pick six is perhaps the most popular bet nation wide. Hollywood parks pick six without a carry over is larger than Saratoga's. On carry over days it brings in a lot of money into the other pools as well.

I don't like it, for one main reason, only the insiders ever hit the big one's or Lewiston Ma, comes in and take it out.

That's your opinion, but can you prove that "only insiders hit the pick six"

[comet52]

What is this, unintentional comedy?

[Fingal]

I believe California once tried eliminating the PK 6 carryover so there would be more people cashing a ticket, & the resulting payoffs became so puny that it was soon put back in. The PK 6 is supposed to have the possibility of a 5 or 6 figure mutuel, not the anemic ones of a Place Pick All.

Deal with what is, not what you want. As soon as an argument or even a suggestion has " I want " in it, it loses all validity.

And no support for Jerry Jam's suggestion of a 10 % rebate for a winning bet placed on track ?

Paulick put up a link to the LA Times article about what Mace Siegel had to say, & this was part of the comments afterwards-

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/mace-siegel-whats-wrong-with-horse-racing-the-people-who-run-it/



Jerry Jam Says:
July 6th, 2010 at 6:44 am (http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/mace-siegel-whats-wrong-with-horse-racing-the-people-who-run-it/#comment-32856)

THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE———————————————-

JUST GIVE EVERYONE WHO VISITS THE RACETRACK AT
10% ON TRACK REBATE.

IT’S JUST THAT SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JERRY JAM

[Horseplayersbet.com]

I do disagree with the elimination of the California carryover. Many times it is that which motivates me to even handicap races there, and I wind up playing most of the races once I do so.

I do think that they should make it a $1 minimum though.

[BlueShoe]

I do think that they should make it a $1 minimum though.
How about this; keep the pick 6 bet at $2 on regular days, but on days with a carryover lower it to $1.

[Igeteven]

How about this; keep the pick 6 bet at $2 on regular days, but on days with a carryover lower it to $1.

A member of this forum tried this, at a CHRB meeting, this poor man got run over by all the four presidents of the major race tracks here in California

When he walked out of there, he look like he got run over from an Abrams Tank going full blast and hit with a 120MM shell.

The tracks want carryovers and 2 dollar bets, if they could, they would make it 3 dollars or more.

[Igeteven]

Here in California, when a trainer get caught using illegal drugs, they get a slap on the hand, fine, suspension. While even on suspension, their asst trainer comes along and the barn continues to operate.

Now here are some of other penalties in foreign nations.


1. China, they shoot you in the head, and send the cost of the bullet to the owner.

2. Japan, they make you commit suicide with a knife and then behead you.

3. Saudi Arabia, they take you out in the public square and hang you.

4. Australia, 50 years in prison or they make you tend sheep for 50 years on foot, no horses involved or using a sheep dog.

[GMB@BP]

One more thing, other states have full fields, why not here, I tell you why,

most of the horse here are over price, I would ship in horses from around the nation and drop the purse prize, with a grand to start your horse, thousand would ship in.

California's over head is ridiculous. 3500 per month to take care of a horse

vet bills are so high, hay is so high, shoeing a horse is so high

not in other states

you do understand this has little to do with horse racing though, its high to have a hot dog stand.

[BluegrassProf]

Here in California, when a trainer get caught using illegal drugs, they get a slap on the hand, fine, suspension. While even on suspension, their asst trainer comes along and the barn continues to operate.

Now here are some of other penalties in foreign nations.

1. China, they shoot you in the head, and send the cost of the bullet to the owner.

2. Japan, they make you commit suicide with a knife and then behead you.

3. Saudi Arabia, they take you out in the public square and hang you.

4. Australia, 50 years in prison or they make you tend sheep for 50 years on foot, no horses involved or using a sheep dog.
What is this, unintentional comedy?
:D

Man, I understand that you have the very best of intentions here...no doubt, everyone's equally concerned re: doping in American racing, in CA or otherwise. But let's keep the TV switched to the real-world channel.

The fact is, there are waaaaay bigger issues at hand here - much like, say, the cost of a gallon of milk in Culver City - that aren't going to be solved by simply slapping down the ol' "get tough" play. But in that case, you're talking about a radical reassessment of the sport at large - for better or for worse - which is considerably grander than a debate over a pick6, and much larger than the state of CA.

[Stillriledup]

We all write and complain, that is the nature of horse players, trainers and owners, however, here in California it falls to one man and a board.

We all know who he is and we all know who the board members are.

What I see to fix some of the problems. Once this is in place, the rest will follow in place.

1. Replace the track to dirt.

2. Lower the take out to 10% and 15 percent on all bets

3. Give the horse owner a starter fee of a $1000.00 to race his or her horse.

4. Make sure the Stewart's enforce the rules to the letter. Right now, they're afraid to open their mouth.

5. Regular race tracks shouldn't charge for parking or admission. If casino did this, nobody would show up. with a lower take out, people will come and bet on the track or on line.

6. Make sure that a trainer stables his horse on track, the horse must run at least 3 times during the major season or the horse owner and trainer will be fined. There is no room in a stable for a horse that will not run during the season. The horse can stay on the farm where he belongs.

7. lower the bets to Kentucky style of betting.

8. Eliminate the pick 6 carry over, this is poison for players

If this goes into place, one will see a whole new ball game out here.


1) 100 agree with this, plastic has been the downfall of California racing, get the real dirt back.

2) I dont think this is feasable. The problem with lowering the takeout is that simulcast outlets dont want the takeout lowered because if you lower the takeout, you are cutting into the profits of places who accept bets on So Cal racing. Here's another problem that SO Cal faces if they lower the takeout. Here's the major problem. Lets say there's a horseplayer in Las Vegas and he's sitting in the sportsbook betting multiple tracks. He makes a wager on a Hollywood race and wins. HE takes advantage of the lower takeout and gets 8.60 on his winner instead of 8.20. He has extra money to play with. Hollywood's goal is to get this player to REBET that extra money WITH THEM, but in reality, that player's extra money is just going to go to the track that has the next race up on the docket. If there's 5 mins to post for the 10th at Belmont and 10 mins to post for the 4th at Hollywood, well that player, who just won extra money because of Hollywood's lower takeout, is going to take that money Hollywood gave him and give it to Belmont. This is a major problem and this is one of the main reasons tracks dont lower takeouts.

3) I dont really agree with this either. This would make owners run lame horses around the track just to get the fee. The current structure of paying off the top 5 works well....if you can't get 5th or better, you dont deserve any money.

4) I dont like this either. I dont like the stewards feeling obligated to 'enforce' rules because them being forced to enforce rules to some letter of some law will result in way more disqualifications, which serious horseplayers dont want. We realize that racing is a contact sport, sometimes there will be contact....but ultimately, we want the winners to be paid. I dont want these pinhead judges to have to make too many decisions, just stay out of the way and make the races official as fast as possible. If there is a major incident than take a look at it, but all the regular bumping, jockeying for position and normal racehorse contact should be left alone. This is a contact sport, let the contact happen and pay the winners. I dont stay up every night till 5am handicapping so that these paid political hacks can play god with my money.

5) I agree, parking and admission should be free, or 1 dollar for each. Racebooks don't charge parking or admission, so a 'racebook' shouldnt do this either. Santa Anita charges 4 dollars to park and 5 dollars for admission when there is NO live racing. They charge you 9 bucks to look at a TV set, that's not right.

6) I think that tracks and racing secretaries should rule with an iron hand, i dont know if fining them for not running is the solution, just because you dont want to force them to run a lame horse, you can't do it that way...there are other ways you can make them run.

7) Not sure what 'kentucky style of betting' means.

8) This is completely wrong, carryovers are amazing opportunities for players who seek value. The carryover is the best thing that happened to racing, you see how large the pools are when a carryover is in play. There's no reason to eliminate this bet, it creates betting handle and betting handle helps the machine 'go'

[Stillriledup]

I don't like it, for one main reason, only the insiders ever hit the big one's or Lewiston Ma, comes in and take it out.

As to the average player, it's only a dream and take a hard look at TVG, they're always selling a dream.

That's marketing.

Yes, one can hit a small one, however, when it comes to the high one,s one can be lucky or I can hit the lottery.


As you notice, handicapping has almost gone out and the tracks are promoting numbers and wheel , wheel, wheel, I prefer handicapping above anything else.

There are a lot of people against the carry over, some other member will post more on this.


Lewiston Maine hits these bets because they have the best players. You not hitting the pick 6 has nothing to do with Lewiston, it has to do with you not being good enough. You need to improve your capping and not worry about what other people are doing.

If you dont have enough money to wager into the pick 6, you need to play the 1 dollar pick 4 and hit enough of those bets to pad your bankroll so that you too can afford a 5k pick 6 ticket. Pick 4 bets are totally affordable for even the smallest bettor and they can pay huge, pick 4's can pay tens of thousands of dollars. The pick 4 is set up for the people who cant afford the pick 6. To tinker and ruin the current format of the pick 6 so that some poorer players can afford the bet is contradictory to the premise of the bet in the first place. The pick 6 is supposed to be hard, we dont need to make it easier so that you can play it. Play the pick 4 instead.

[Stillriledup]

How about this; keep the pick 6 bet at $2 on regular days, but on days with a carryover lower it to $1.

Why lower the minimum? Tracks want carryovers and bettors want carryovers. If you can afford the 2 dollar minimum, bet the pick 4 instead.

[Bruiser1]

The biggest problem is the horse shortage.

One of the answers is to drop the minimum claiming prices on the Southern Ca circuit.

Another answer is to figure out a way to bring the costs of ownership down.

[Stillriledup]

The biggest problem is the horse shortage.

One of the answers is to drop the minimum claiming prices on the Southern Ca circuit.

Another answer is to figure out a way to bring the costs of ownership down.

Trainers and jockeys make too much money and that money comes out of the cut that the owners have. Owners and bettors have tremendous inherent risk in this game, the only risk jockeys are taking is a physical risk, as far as money goes, they either win money or break even, same with trainers. Jocks and trainers get paid even if they perform poorly. If an owner or bettor performs poorly, they LOSE money.

[Robert Goren]

Lewiston Maine hits these bets because they have the best players. The people listed as being from Lewiston Maine who hit the pick 6s are not really from Lewiston Maine. Lewiston is the site of the hub. There was a thread on this awhile ago. I would post a link, but I am not really sure how to find it.

[BluegrassProf]

...the only risk jockeys are taking is a physical risk, as far as money goes, they either win money or break even...The "only" risk? [Enormous] physical risk is irrelevant?

Srriously though, you're probably right - I'm not facing potential paralysis, and let's face it: just too many jockeys in Bentleys around town lately. I say cut those needy nellies off while we still can! :ThmbUp:


I kid, I kid... ;)

[Stillriledup]

The people listed as being from Lewiston Maine who hit the pick 6s are not really from Lewiston Maine. Lewiston is the site of the hub. There was a thread on this awhile ago. I would post a link, but I am not really sure how to find it.

I understand that. I should have put lewiston in quotes?

[Stillriledup]

The "only" risk? [Enormous] physical risk is irrelevant?

Srriously though, you're probably right - I'm not facing potential paralysis, and let's face it: just too many jockeys in Bentleys around town lately. I say cut those needy nellies off while we still can! :ThmbUp:


I kid, I kid... ;)

With the risk goes the glory.

[thespaah]

What is your reasoning for eliminating the pick 6 carryover?Award the pool to those who took the risk on a particular race day.

[thespaah]

We all write and complain, that is the nature of horse players, trainers and owners, however, here in California it falls to one man and a board.

We all know who he is and we all know who the board members are.

What I see to fix some of the problems. Once this is in place, the rest will follow in place.

1. Replace the track to dirt. Yes...

2. Lower the take out to 10% and 15 percent on all bets...Yes ...The horse players location is of no concern. Give the bettors more of their dollars.
Look at it this way, if the word takeout was replaced with "fee" or "Tax", we'd be reluctant to bet on horseracing at all. Takeout is essentially the track's "vig"....anything over 15% is too much.
Reduce takeout and more dollars will be wagered

3. Give the horse owner a starter fee of a $1000.00 to race his or her horse.
Nope. I disagree. This would set up a welfare system in which purses would have to be cut . The top five would get less. That's not a good idea.

4. Make sure the Stewart's enforce the rules to the letter. Right now, they're afraid to open their mouth.
Absolutely. Rules are rules. Stewards should have the same autonomy as officials in any other sport. No political pressure should come from owners or trainers.

5. Regular race tracks shouldn't charge for parking or admission. If casino did this, nobody would show up. with a lower take out, people will come and bet on the track or on line.
I agree to certain extent. There should be free parking and grandstand admission on regualr race days. A fee to gain clubhouse or special areas is appropriate.

6. Make sure that a trainer stables his horse on track, the horse must run at least 3 times during the major season or the horse owner and trainer will be fined. There is no room in a stable for a horse that will not run during the season. The horse can stay on the farm where he belongs.
hard number is difficult to achieve. There must be flexibility in case a horse is injured or becomes sick.
I do think that racetrack stalls should be warehouses for trainers too cheap to stable horses not in race training at training facilities.

7. lower the bets to Kentucky style of betting....Not sure what that is.

8. Eliminate the pick 6 carry over, this is poison for players.....Agree, Pay thr pool to those who invest in it. It makes no sense to allow others to reap the benefits of those who wagered the days before

If this goes into place, one will see a

[thespaah]

Trainers and jockeys make too much money and that money comes out of the cut that the owners have. Owners and bettors have tremendous inherent risk in this game, the only risk jockeys are taking is a physical risk, as far as money goes, they either win money or break even, same with trainers. Jocks and trainers get paid even if they perform poorly. If an owner or bettor performs poorly, they LOSE money.
Just a minute. The occupations of Jockey and Trainer is a JOB. A career.
Wagering is recreational risk.
Apples to oranges..
I fully realize that there are those who list themselves on their tax return as "professional gambler". Those are far and few between. Most folks bet the races for entertainment.

BTW, anyone who is small enough in stature is free to lose a whole bunch of weight, learn to ride and then if soemone offers you a job, get on the back of a highstrung 1200 lb animal capable of running 40 MPH for 3/4ths of a mile and then tell me jockeys get paid too much.