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View Full Version : More holes in Quinn's graded stakes theory


Valuist
08-10-2003, 01:10 AM
"Take proven Grade 1 winners in Grade 1 races and take horses who have at least won Grade 2 events in Grade 2 races," claims James Quinn in one of his many books. Here's the results of todays Sword Dancer:

Whitmore's Conn 1st paying $51.50 to win, Macaw was 2nd paying $14 and change to place, and 55-1 Slew Valley was 3rd paying $16 to show.

Without looking at the past perfs, you'd think all 3 were out of form coming into the race. Actually Whitmore's Conn and Macaw were very sharp, both closing on a nothing pace to run 1-3 in the Grade 2 Bowling Green last month. Whitmore's Conn had won exactly two graded races before today: the Gr. 2 Bowling Green in the last 2 years. Macaw had run 3rd in the Gr. 2 BG and 2nd in the Gr. 3 Mac Diarmida. His last win was against ungraded handicap company in Great Britain. Slew Valley's had a 2nd in the 2001 Bowling Green and a 3rd in the 2001 Sword Dancer but his last win was against optional 50000 claimers at Delaware 26 months ago. The bottom line? The grade designations are done sloppily, and many Grade 2s are as tough or tougher than some Grade 1s and the same goes with Gr. 3s to Gr 2s. Also many ungraded stakes come up tougher than subpar Grade 3s. Good speed figures should always supercede arbitrarily assigned graded stakes levels when handicapping. Whitmore's Conns $51.50 win payoff might be the overlay of the year.

JustRalph
08-10-2003, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by Valuist
[B Whitmore's Conns $51.50 win payoff might be the overlay of the year. [/B]

The closing numbers on Whitmores Conn impressed me. But that was it. I looked at the race shape with Balto up front and decided to make the play. My computer program picked WConn to run about 2.1 lengths off of Balto Star if he could run the exact same race as last time. I didn't anticipate that happening and that solidified my play. It was a really nice payout and your statement above may be right. My computer program also showed that the second place horse had closing numbers that were right up there with Wconn. I didn't play the exacta.......oops! :cool:

Tom
08-10-2003, 10:15 AM
Horse RS Fr1 Fr2 Fr3 E L
--------------------------------------------
Lunar Sovereig P 3 10 1 13 11
Denon P 5 5 5 10 10
Balto Star *F 1 10 2 11 12
Ballingarry (I P 5 7 7 12 14
Dr. Brendler S 8 2 6 10 8 *
Kim Loves Buck P 2 9 3 11 12
Whitmore's Con S 11 3 4 14 7 *
Puerto Banus S 10 1 9 11 10
Macaw (IRE) S 9 4 8 13 21
Slew Valley E 4 6 11 10 21
Meridiana (GER S 7 8 10 15 25


This race had two ovious late horse- a two horse bet was the way to go - and it paid off.

Tom
08-10-2003, 10:21 AM
JMHO, but graded stakes are much more dilluted theses days. So many opportunities for a horse to run a G1 or G2 race, you have a lot more horses earning that status in weaker races.
Allen Weston, on the Derby List, has a simple rule for these races-horse must have earned 110 Beyer.
I like to use that in tandem, so hat I look for horse that won a G1 or 2 and earned a 110.
But, when situatiuons like the Sar race yesterday come up, forget class.